pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:35 am

SN Brussels Airlines is currently evaluating the offers they got for their longhaul wetlease operation Brussels-Africa.

I have understood that they don't want Boeing 767 aircraft because it's not the right type for flights between Brussels and Nairobi (Kenia). Due to the height of the African airport the capacity on board the 767 must be limited. The Airbus 330 can take a better load on this route.

Is this correct? What aircrafttype do the European companies use on the Europe-Nairobi flights??

Thanks

 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 4:18 am

Can someone explain to me if this is true Kenya Airways only has the B767-300ER in its fleet and KLM is also operating the B767 into NBO (next to the MD11)?

Regards
Laurens
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 4:29 am

That cant be true.
They will use A330s probably as there are loads of available A330 pilots in Belgium atm.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:18 am

Hey pressclub,

I did some search for you:

For the Nairobi flights:

1) KLM operates the MD11
2) Swissair: MD11
3) TAP operated this route via Brussels (SN) and ZRH (SR MD11) or operated this route via Brussels
4) BA operates the B744
5) AF doesn't fly to Nairobi, but they have a flight 3 times a week to Djibouti with the A310.
6) LH flies to Mombasa (operated by Condor, I don't know the exact type, probably the B752)
7) I checked Alitalia, but it seems they don't fly anymore to Nairobi
8) Citybird flew from Brussels to Mombasa, now Sobelair flies this route via Wenen and Hurghada with a B737-300 (maybe upgraded in summer to B763, because CTB flew this route with MD11 and B763 via Zurich)
9) Czech Airlines operates this route via CDG

I hope I helped you a bit,
For more info, you know my e-mail,
Best regards,
Frederic
 
Guest

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:24 am

Kenya Airways previously operated the Airbus A310 but got rid of them following the crash in ABJ. They now use ex KLM B767-300ERs. No problems at all operating in there!
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:31 am

And here some the non-european use:
SAA: B737-800
Emirates: B777
Gulf Air: B767
Egypt Air A320
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:37 am

Ceildih you're 100% INcorrect. The 5Y-KQX/Y/Z are brand new B767-300ER delivered straight from Boeing Field (okay they made a stop at LHR) . Only the 5Y-KQV and KQW are leased and NOT from KLM but from GECAS and were formely used by Spanair. Kenya used a KLM B767 (only on the AMS-NBO route) only just after the crash. However, this lease was terminated as Kenya received the VH-NOA from Ansett which was returned after the 5Y-KQX was delivered.

Regards
Laurens
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:57 am

Sorry I made a small mistake. The 5Y-KQW and 5Y-KQV haven't been use by Spanair but by Iberia, which leased the aircraft from Air Europa which leased them from GECAS.

Regards
Laurens
 
Guest

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 6:17 am

Why'd that Kenya A310 crash again? What was the cause?
 
LJ
Posts: 4146
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 6:24 am

Twaneedsnohelp,

According to airdisaster.com:

"The probable cause of the accident was determined to be 'the aerodynamic stall warning which falsely indicated that the plane had stalled moments after takeoff, and the Captain's failure to properly react to a false alarm. Contributing to the accident was the plane's takeoff at night over water."

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi_bin/view_details.cgi?date=01302000&airline=Kenya+Airways
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 7:59 am

I can only tell you what SN Brussels airlines tells us: the B 767 is not the right aicraft for this route due to the limitations for freight and range....
 
A330DAT
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:21 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 9:12 am

Pressclub is right. The 767 had been considered (remember the australians?) KLM uses the 767-300 on it's Amsterdam - Nairobi (Kenya) route but does not carry that much cargo than DAT would, meaning weight restrictions would be put on the aircraft because Nairobi is a "Hot and High" airport.

Jomo Kenyatta (Nairobi) airport is actually only considered as a technical stop for flights coming from Kigali (Rwanda) and Entebbe (Uganda). Kigali and Entebbe airports are in mountainous areas and supplying jetfuel to these places is very difficult and expensive. There are no oil pipelines and everything is imported with trucks, so the flights coming from Europe are non-stop but the return flights are via Nairobi. DAT (or should I say SN Brussels Airlines) also has traffic rights out of Nairobi, so that destination will also be part of the network.

 Smokin cool
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 10:32 am

Kenya Airways has 764 on order to replace the 763.This is quite a capacity jump from the 310 they flew to LHR only a few months back(12 or so)
 
Marara
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Sun Feb 17, 2002 8:33 pm

A330DAT

What do you mean "(remember the australians?)" ?

Thanx
I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:33 am

A330DAT probably means the very attractive offer from Ansett to wetlease 2 B767s to SN Brussels Airlines in order to relaunch the long haul operations....
The offer was turned down although much cheaper then any of the current A330 offers on the table, so I've been told...

Why go for the A330?
Well, our friend is right in his explanation.
There are 2 aspects taken into consideration:
-) Refueling in Africa is generally much cheaper at an airport close to the sea like Kinshasa, Lagos or Nairobi then at places like Entebbe, Kigali or Bujumbura due to the extremely poor road infrastructure on this continent.
-) Apart from (some of) the 5 weekly flights to Kinshasa, all flights will combine multiple stops on the continent, yet the range of the B767 (without refueling) does not allow maximum flexibility for this kind of operations. And as said before refueling might be very expensive or even a logistical nightmare at some of the future destinations.
Therefor refueling for the East African flights will be done (as in the past) in Nairobi, but since Brussels-Kigali-Nairobi is simply out of range for any B767 at max take-off weight during the summer, the B767 is not an option.
 
pressclub
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 10:24 am

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Mon Feb 18, 2002 12:40 am

Thanks, SLZ, for this explanation.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6460
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines Doesn't Want The 767

Mon Feb 18, 2002 3:03 am

Ceilidh,
Kenya Airways replaced their A310s due to payload/range restrictions on their A310s on long-haul to London.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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