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KTPAFlyer
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US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 9:46 pm

Hello A.net,

Recent news has indicated that a meeting in Brussels has resulted in the abandonment of a proposed US-EU laptop ban due to concerns over lithium batteries in the cargo hold and backlash from business travelers in addition to lobbying from US and EU carriers about the impact of such a ban on business traffic. Such a ban would have leveled the playing field with the ME3 who are currently affected, and this move has reintroduced speculation that such a move was unfairly targeted at ME carriers despite the presence of significant security threats instead of being applied unilaterally across the board. Many are left wondering how lithium batteries are somehow safer in the hold on ME carriers but should be allowed on TATL flights and the willingness to hold a meeting regarding the terms of a TATL ban while providing no notice or negotiation with ME carriers and governments affected by the ban.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39956968
 
upwardfacing
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 9:49 pm

I would guess that the ME ban will be modified or scrapped in the coming days.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 9:52 pm

Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..
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LAX772LR
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 9:56 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..

Expect it where? In the cargo hold, cabin, altogether?
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Nabz82
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 10:00 pm

The ME ban should never have been implemented, globally (with many means of getting to the US on many other carriers by many other points), anyone with such intent could not have been stopped by this ban. Since the EU-US ban will not be implemented for whatever reason, the ME ban should not stand.
 
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enilria
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 10:30 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..

If the lithium batteries were the issue there really isn't a solution absent some sort of sealed titanium locker in the hold. I doubt that happens.

I hope the whole mess is eliminated.
 
vfw614
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 10:32 pm

That's not how IATA and the EC understand the situation.

The next US-EU meeting will be on May 22 and the issue will be raised at the G7 summit on May 24. The US has not abandoned the idea, but will not implement it at this point because of the ongoing talks and has only promised not to act before May 24, i.e. G7.

In fact, IATA yesterday warned its members that the situation is "fluid" and the EC recommended that airlines prepare contingency plans.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Thu May 18, 2017 11:42 pm

enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..

If the lithium batteries were the issue there really isn't a solution absent some sort of sealed titanium locker in the hold. I doubt that happens.

I hope the whole mess is eliminated.


Isn't the issue over the alleged claim by ISIS they can insert a bomb into a laptop? If so, it's really not going to matter if it's in the cabin or cargo hold. I
 
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ua900
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:31 am

Just get better scanners and more reliable airport personnel before you get titanium lockers.

Not that the EU or the US can't have questionable people equipped with SIDA badges / airport door codes and similar SSI, but the risk seems greater given events like Metrojet. The only downside I see to this is that every time there's a well-published exemption, there's also an elevated risk for certain groups to take advantage of that.

100% safety is a tough goal to implement.
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freakyrat
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:32 am

I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:41 am

The threat may be real, and the inconvenience is real. 100% safety is about never possible.
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Cubsrule
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:47 am

freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


This may be a stupid question, but should we be going back to turning on electronics as a security measure? That was popular shorty after 9/11 but petered out perhaps 10 years ago.
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kabq737
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:50 am

freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


I am very against the ban but it wouldn't be hard at all to open your device and then re seal it.
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ikramerica
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:55 am

kabq737 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


I am very against the ban but it wouldn't be hard at all to open your device and then re seal it.

But it wouldn't work.

From what I understand about the ban is that the machines in the ME that screen passenger cabin luggage aren't the same and they don't do the same secondary swabbing either. But why isn't the push to make sure that is done? As quickly as possible?
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kabq737
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 1:55 am

ikramerica wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


I am very against the ban but it wouldn't be hard at all to open your device and then re seal it.

But it wouldn't work.

From what I understand about the ban is that the machines in the ME that screen passenger cabin luggage aren't the same and they don't do the same secondary swabbing either. But why isn't the push to make sure that is done? As quickly as possible?


You don't think it is possible to re seal a device?
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ASQ400
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 1:57 am

I'm willing to bet it was a protectionist move for the US3 against the ME3 and TK. Then, the celebrity appresident found out that US3 fly TATL
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SFOATLFlyer
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 2:09 am

If true and implemented, I suspect some pax will not see their laptops in their baggage after their flights.
 
 
dampfnudel
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 4:40 am

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
If true and implemented, I suspect some pax will not see their laptops in their baggage after their flights.


I suspect a lot of pax will leave their laptops/tablets at home rather than take a chance.

Laptop bombs a question of when, not if - UN official:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39970647
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NickLAX
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 5:26 am

LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..


I also expect that if they attempt this with allowing checked Li-Ion that the insurance industry will have a field day on premiums - talking big increases that may in fact retract ANY attempt to enforce a ban for very long.

The immediate should be - MAX two electronic items in the cabin. Devices NOT being a phone have to be screened before departure and due to backlogs we suggest leaving these devices at home until screening can be scaled up. I'd suggest running some form of alternate lanes for those NOT bringing devices other than a phone UNTIL a scaled up screening process can allow near normal screening times. You want to bring a device you MAY take 1+ hours to go through security, don't bring one it may be 10 min.

If the threat is as real as DHS insists than CHECKING an electronic item is utter stupidity - screening a limited number of items should be the "new norm" until scalable screening can be done.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 5:30 am

kabq737 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
kabq737 wrote:

I am very against the ban but it wouldn't be hard at all to open your device and then re seal it.

But it wouldn't work.

From what I understand about the ban is that the machines in the ME that screen passenger cabin luggage aren't the same and they don't do the same secondary swabbing either. But why isn't the push to make sure that is done? As quickly as possible?


You don't think it is possible to re seal a device?


Easy - look at ifixit - I've fixed multiple Macbook devices even ones with epoxy sealed backs - there are lots of tools out there to do this and lots of aftermarket parts to help you reassemble. Biggest think going forward will be proper x-raying to look for tampering (e.g. is the battery area showing signs of other material densities) - I'd be fine with a hard and fast rule of "your notebook looks tampered with - you can't fly with it"
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 5:35 am

dampfnudel wrote:
I suspect a lot of pax will leave their laptops/tablets at home rather than take a chance.


Leisure pax? Sure...but business travelers that have to work in Europe or the US? Not sure about that.

I was in Europe when this first bubbled up last week. I came up with two contingency plans to get my company laptop and iPad (and cameras & lenses) home. One involved FedEx and a Pelican case. The other was checking a Pelican case on my flight home with four locks and zip ties on it. Thankfully I didn't have to blow €900 on getting stuff home.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 5:45 am

LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..


Never going to happen. I expect the opposite and the ban will be lifted globally. It's causing a whole lot of inconvenience (and causes billions of dollars damage to the economy) to eliminate an imaginary risk.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 7:36 am

¿The ban is in the flights from US to Europe too?
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 8:37 am

Phones that can be used as laptops and easily connect to universal external screens and keyboards are going to become a thing.

The problem I see is that modern interfaces like WiDi or DisplayPort are not just display connections, they're also data connections, so users with sensitive data might not trust the external screen offered by the airline or hotel at their destination.
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 8:43 am

If this danger is real, than labtops, tablets should be banned in the cabin and in the belly, that means no tablets or laptops transported. This ban should than involve all airlines and all airports.
For business people and perhaps everybody, there should be a possibility of rent a tablet, laptop whatever and you would only travel with your data.

But I rather think this danger is to a big part imagination. Because if the USA government think about this as a danger, than they should start with looking for it at home too, where one of the worst screening systems is run thanks to the "good" work of the TSA that does not even find guns in the cabin luggage of passengers, or crew? It should be no problem to smuggle in prepared laptops into the USA or prepare them there.

The choice of airports and airlines to implement this ban, in blatant disregard of the danger of lithium ion or bombs in the hold, for me the bigger danger there than in the cabin, points IMO more to a security theater than a real danger.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 9:34 am

Anybody of the opinion that this leg of the drama (a contemplation of a ban for the EU, then a discussion, and an eventual scrapping) was rigged and scripted to divert attention away from the ME3 being the sole victims?

Sure, the ban on the ME3 is still in place but contrary to the OP I don't see much scrutiny on the initial move per-se.
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b747400erf
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 9:37 am

If the danger is real there would have been an attack, or ban years ago, when reports were first published in 2010 or 2011 about terror groups being able to disguise bombs in batteries of electronic devices.
 
vfw614
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 10:33 am

It is a risk, for sure. But in my book not different than the risk that there will be another controlled flight into terrain, an aircraft running out of fuel and crashing, a deep stall crash, a suicidal pilot, an aircraft shot down with a SAM. Every once in a while something terrible will happen to a plane and people will die, for various reasons.

Against this background and compared to other deadly risks of life (car accidents, shootings, deadly diseases caused by smoking, drinking, drugs), the plan to ban electronic devices appears to be disproportionate - unless there is solid information that there are hundreds of terrorists waiting to board hundreds of planes with (functioning) laptop bombs. And based on IATA risk assessments, the plan is outright stupid if it means that hundreds of lithium batteries will be carried in the hold.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 10:43 am

freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


Sealed in the sense it is not consumer replaceable item. Any authorized service center or a DIY guy can replace the battery.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 10:59 am

To be honest I'm surprised airliners aren't already blowing up. Not from laptop bombs but from people chirurgically implanted with bombs. Plenty of people implanted with drugs make it onboard airplanes.
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:04 am

Cubsrule wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
I use a Macbook Pro and It is my understanding that Macs are sealed. Mine is. So I don't see why this ban should apply to Macs or IPads or any other type laptop or pad that is sealed up. All fancy cameras can be opened up and turned on to show that they are working. All these devices can be swabbed so the ban for a perceived threat that may not exist at all is just another example of security theater.


This may be a stupid question, but should we be going back to turning on electronics as a security measure? That was popular shorty after 9/11 but petered out perhaps 10 years ago.


The difference between a short-life and long-life battery can simply be the number/size of cells packed inside. I really don't think it's so hard for someone to take the innards from a small laptop battery and pack it in a long-life battery case - then stuff the rest with explosives. In fact, for someone with a bit of electronic know-how they could probably reduce the number/size of the the cells still further so that it only gives you say ten minutes of power and leaves 90% of the space for explosives.
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b747400erf
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:06 am

Aesma wrote:
To be honest I'm surprised airliners aren't already blowing up. Not from laptop bombs but from people chirurgically implanted with bombs. Plenty of people implanted with drugs make it onboard airplanes.

That is because you have bought into the talking points of terrorist groups being so numerous and all over the planet just waiting to strike. Defence contractors thank you for believing that.
 
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:06 am

This sort of hubbub is exactly what terrorists want. They want to scare people, and they're accomplishing that without actually doing anything. I don't trust TSA to effectively stop any threats, and presumably the US government doesn't either, because they're all paid practically nothing, and from my observations, don't care too much about their jobs.
Let people bring their laptops on board aircraft, it's the 21st century and so many people travelling with them need them for business. Nobody is ever going to eliminate 100% of risk, and I'm much more likely to die getting hit by a car walking to the terminal from my car than I am from a terrorist attack. Being able to have my laptop on board a plane is a risk I'm willing to accept.
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TerminalD
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:08 am

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Actually, I expect a much broader global ban instead..

If the lithium batteries were the issue there really isn't a solution absent some sort of sealed titanium locker in the hold. I doubt that happens.

I hope the whole mess is eliminated.


Isn't the issue over the alleged claim by ISIS they can insert a bomb into a laptop? If so, it's really not going to matter if it's in the cabin or cargo hold. I

I assume they are thinking that the reduced oxygen in the hold makes the explosion smaller, but I'm not a scientist.
dtw2hyd wrote:
Sealed in the sense it is not consumer replaceable item. Any authorized service center or a DIY guy can replace the battery.

How about when you buy your Ipad/Laptop there is a seal that only Apple/service dealer can replace. If it's broken then it can't go in the cabin? Or worse the TSA has an inspection station and they affix a seal/s after a detailed inspection and then it's good to go as long as the seal doesn't get broken.

Next option, at the xray they digitally store the exact model image and if there is a variance from the official xray image (which the software checks like facial recognition), it must be checked?
 
vfw614
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:15 am

Article from today in German that the German government is preparing for an US laptop ban (sorry, only in German), based on an assessment of the German ambassador to the US. So as I said earlier, the ban apparently has been postponed, but not abandoned.

http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/lap ... 48432.html

The German are mightily pissed that the US does not share intel information on the matter that has been shared by Trump with the Russians and they also fear that the US will cut the UK a special so that LHR will have a competitive advantage as a TATL hub.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:54 am

TerminalD wrote:
How about when you buy your Ipad/Laptop there is a seal that only Apple/service dealer can replace. If it's broken then it can't go in the cabin?

Anybody anywhere in the world can become an authorized consumer electronics service center. Seal has no value.

TerminalD wrote:
Or worse the TSA has an inspection station and they affix a seal/s after a detailed inspection and then it's good to go as long as the seal doesn't get broken.

By TSA you mean local aviation security apparatus. ME3 hubs are pushing millions thru their system. There may not be a way to do any detailed inspection.

TerminalD wrote:
Next option, at the xray they digitally store the exact model image and if there is a variance from the official xray image (which the software checks like facial recognition), it must be checked?


Not sure about automation but any good TSA guy will notice any replaced battery or any standard component like a SSD in place of HDD.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:55 am

I love how you guys seem to think this is a political situation.

Didnt trump just get in trouble for sharing this same info with the Russian ambassador 3 days ago?

So what is it? It's real classified intelligence he shared (and he's awful) or their is no laptop threat and this is political bias (and he's awful). Can't be both guys.

The UN also acknowledges the threat.

As for targeting the middle east, the new admininistration has made no secret of leaving the politically correct era behind when it comes to fighting terror. They have been very upfront about it.

They are targeting the Middle East because that's where these guys come from. In reality, if the threat is real...it should apply to all passengers from said regions because these guys could simply connect
 
rebr
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 11:56 am

Aesma wrote:
Phones that can be used as laptops and easily connect to universal external screens and keyboards are going to become a thing.

The problem I see is that modern interfaces like WiDi or DisplayPort are not just display connections, they're also data connections, so users with sensitive data might not trust the external screen offered by the airline or hotel at their destination.

I was actually wondering this the other day, flew on one of the newer EK 777's and they have screens that are as big as my 13" MBP (same goes for the newer A380's btw). I usually work a bit on my laptop even in Economy, but putting my laptop on the tray table means that I constantly need to look down, which eventually will give me neck and backache so I can't really work for more then 2-3 hours at a time. Since the IFE screens are so big, I thought it'd be great if I can connect my laptop (or indeed mobile) to the screen, then I just bring a bluetooth keyboard/mouse and voila, I don't need to look down anymore. As a dev best thing would be to be able to connect my laptop, but if they are banned or it's not possible even connecting my phone to a larger screen would help get some work done. Catch up on emails, write documentation stuff like that. Not that I see any airline putting HDMI/DisplayPort/WiDi capability to their IFE anytime soon.
 
LGAviation
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:01 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I love how you guys seem to think this is a political situation.

Didnt trump just get in trouble for sharing this same info with the Russian ambassador 3 days ago?

So what is it? It's real classified intelligence he shared (and he's awful) or their is no laptop threat and this is political bias (and he's awful). Can't be both guys.

The UN also acknowledges the threat.

As for targeting the middle east, the new admininistration has made no secret of leaving the politically correct era behind when it comes to fighting terror. They have been very upfront about it.

They are targeting the Middle East because that's where these guys come from. In reality, if the threat is real...it should apply to all passengers from said regions because these guys could simply connect



Of course it is a political situation even if there were intelligence. It's always a balancing of risks and an evaluation of what is appropriate and what is not. And quite frequently here in Germany we come to different assessments from what the United States and other countries have come to. Overall, I do not feel unsafe in this country where of course you don't need to put your shoes off before flying and can usually take a personal shaver in cabin baggage.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:09 pm

rebr wrote:
Not that I see any airline putting HDMI/DisplayPort/WiDi capability to their IFE anytime soon.


Not 100% sure but IFE systems in J and F have HDMI input or stream your own content feature.

There are compute sticks by Intel, Asus and others ranging between $150 to $400. ME3 can give out those to J/F passengers let them copy files and bring those on board with a fold-able keyboard and mouse.

Latest IFE systems are Andriod/Linux based, MS Office/Open Office can be easily implemented within the system.

Still it doesn't address privacy issues, you don't want a confidential word document (or) spread sheet on IFE particularly if you are not in a closed F suite.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3383
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:15 pm

It all comes down to proportionality.

Is it proprotionate to make flying miserable for millions of people, empty the business class cabins of airlines, make the conduct of business for many companies much more complicated etc. etc.

The same can be asked about banning trucks, public sport events, christmas fairs, night clubs for homosexuals, cars in inner cities. These have all been weapons or targets of terrorists. Or as we are just at it, how about banning alcohol, tobacco, drugs, cars, weapons. These are all responsible for annual deaths in the millions. We don't ban them because a ban would be disproportionate, depsite the much higher number of annual casualties.

I remain to be convinced that a laptop ban is proportionate. An attack may or may not happen with a laptop. It is a risk involved in flying. We have not stopped using pilots because a handful of pilots have committed suicide by crashing a plane.


There are compute sticks by Intel, Asus and others ranging between $150 to $400. ME3 can give out those to J/F passengers let them copy files and bring those on board with a fold-able keyboard and mouse.


This may be an option for leisure travellers. It certainly is a big no-no for business travellers with sensitive data, and these are the ones the airlines will be concerned about.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:40 pm

vfw614 wrote:
It certainly is a big no-no for business travellers with sensitive data, and these are the ones the airlines will be concerned about.


Their employer can buy the compute stick with all the standard software.

On a side note, now a days most companies won't allow employees to travel with confidential data. On their way back CBP can always inspect or confiscate the laptop.

A compute stick with few work in progress documents minimizes the risk while keeping employees productive.
 
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scbriml
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 12:46 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Not sure about automation but any good TSA guy will notice any replaced battery or any standard component like a SSD in place of HDD.


These would be the same TSA agents that allow loaded guns through security checks with frightening regularity? :crazy: :faint:
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ikramerica
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 1:16 pm

kabq737 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
kabq737 wrote:

I am very against the ban but it wouldn't be hard at all to open your device and then re seal it.

But it wouldn't work.

From what I understand about the ban is that the machines in the ME that screen passenger cabin luggage aren't the same and they don't do the same secondary swabbing either. But why isn't the push to make sure that is done? As quickly as possible?


You don't think it is possible to re seal a device?

If you were familiar with the sealed interiors of the MacBooks you'd know why, while possible, it's nearly impossible, to open them, jerry rig a low power battery and then place and explosive in the very little remaining space, and then have that mac turn on at a checkpoint. The engineering needed to do so isn't ISIS level.
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SFOATLFlyer
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 2:15 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I love how you guys seem to think this is a political situation.

Didnt trump just get in trouble for sharing this same info with the Russian ambassador 3 days ago?

So what is it? It's real classified intelligence he shared (and he's awful) or their is no laptop threat and this is political bias (and he's awful). Can't be both guys.

The UN also acknowledges the threat.

As for targeting the middle east, the new admininistration has made no secret of leaving the politically correct era behind when it comes to fighting terror. They have been very upfront about it.

They are targeting the Middle East because that's where these guys come from. In reality, if the threat is real...it should apply to all passengers from said regions because these guys could simply connect


I don't see how this issue cannot be politicized. Our president isn't doing himself or the nation in favors by opening his mouth or Twitter app. It may be a prudent measure I don't know, But there is one very large nation not on that list that should be, and it won't be on the list because of it's coveted natural resource.
 
SFOATLFlyer
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 2:29 pm

Adipasquale wrote:
This sort of hubbub is exactly what terrorists want. They want to scare people, and they're accomplishing that without actually doing anything. I don't trust TSA to effectively stop any threats, and presumably the US government doesn't either, because they're all paid practically nothing, and from my observations, don't care too much about their jobs.
Let people bring their laptops on board aircraft, it's the 21st century and so many people travelling with them need them for business. Nobody is ever going to eliminate 100% of risk, and I'm much more likely to die getting hit by a car walking to the terminal from my car than I am from a terrorist attack. Being able to have my laptop on board a plane is a risk I'm willing to accept.


I always prefer my laptop or tablet for entertainment when I fly. A total ban would have a big impact on how companies do business.

We are in a point in time where trust is basically non-existent. In our governments, airlines, media. The US has a president that campaigned on fear from terrorism. Our media lapped it up. Airlines are going to have to make adjustments if there's a ban.

I do agree on some other posts. It's not a matter of if but when a terrorist incident will bring a plane down. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. Ever since I was a kid in the 60's watching news coverages of 707's sitting in the deserts of north Africa being held hostage, there has been a threat. It's not going to stop me, but fear feeds more fear. Stay tuned.
 
kabq737
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 2:31 pm

NickLAX wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
But it wouldn't work.

From what I understand about the ban is that the machines in the ME that screen passenger cabin luggage aren't the same and they don't do the same secondary swabbing either. But why isn't the push to make sure that is done? As quickly as possible?


You don't think it is possible to re seal a device?


Easy - look at ifixit - I've fixed multiple Macbook devices even ones with epoxy sealed backs - there are lots of tools out there to do this and lots of aftermarket parts to help you reassemble. Biggest think going forward will be proper x-raying to look for tampering (e.g. is the battery area showing signs of other material densities) - I'd be fine with a hard and fast rule of "your notebook looks tampered with - you can't fly with it"


Exactly. I was referring to the poster who implied that since MacBooks are completely sealed they should be allowed onboard. Although Apple doesn't want you to think so it is very easy to open up and midify Mac devices as well..
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pabloeing
Posts: 179
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 3:39 pm

...WIFI near the end in aviation........
 
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moo
Posts: 4529
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Re: US-EU laptop ban abandoned; scrutiny increases over decision to leave ME ban in place

Fri May 19, 2017 4:13 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
rebr wrote:
Not that I see any airline putting HDMI/DisplayPort/WiDi capability to their IFE anytime soon.


Not 100% sure but IFE systems in J and F have HDMI input or stream your own content feature.

There are compute sticks by Intel, Asus and others ranging between $150 to $400. ME3 can give out those to J/F passengers let them copy files and bring those on board with a fold-able keyboard and mouse.

Latest IFE systems are Andriod/Linux based, MS Office/Open Office can be easily implemented within the system.

Still it doesn't address privacy issues, you don't want a confidential word document (or) spread sheet on IFE particularly if you are not in a closed F suite.


IFE screens are utterly appalling for doing anything other than watching movies on - low refresh rates, poor resolutions, blurry pictures and general low quality images make for a terrible time.

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