GBMRA757SF
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:04 pm

Channex757 wrote:
MajMattMason wrote:
These A333 P2F's acquisitions, are they to replace or augment the existing fleet? If replace, I assume it's going to be for the A300's?
Anyone know what the fate of the B757 fleet is??

DHL have been swapping a lot of aircraft recently. They just took a pair of late build 757s from AA for conversion.

This is a fairly up to date list of the UK-registered DHL fleet

http://jethros.org.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/dhl_air.htm

The older 757s have been going to the breakers recently, with newer models (and better engines) replacing them.


A330's may well go to Air Hong Kong ( Ops by ASL ) but this is DHL we are talking about
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:28 pm

So how's the A330 certification going? I would imagine it being done soon also how's the flight test's going? The recently converted A330 flew in October 2017 since then. And what's the status of HS-TEM DHL's 4th A330?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:34 am

It's done:

Conversion specialist EFW has secured European supplemental type certification for the modified Airbus A330-300 passenger-to-freighter modification.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... al-443774/

Aircraft has been delivered:

DHL Express has become the first operator to take delivery of the A330-300 Passenger-to-Freighter (P2F) converted aircraft from Elbe Flugzeugwerke (EFW), the joint venture between ST Aerospace and Airbus. This delivery, which took place at EFW’s freighter conversion facilities in Dresden, follows the successful completion of test flights in October and awarding of the Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) in November. DHL Express has firm orders for eight A330-300P2F units in total, with additional options to receive another 10.


http://newsroom.aviator.aero/first-a330 ... -with-dhl/

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Lilienthal
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:09 am

So the nose-down angle is not an issue for the operators or is it just not possible to reconfigure the nose gear section?
 
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Martinairger
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:41 pm

Tomorrow is planned the delivery flight of the first A330-300P2F (ASL Airlines) to Dublin (DUB).

A picture from today: https://www.mach-photos.com/single-post ... ery-flight


Martin Rogosz
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:12 pm

Nice! I'd imagine the conversion of D-AAEB getting done by Mar/Apr 2018. Are there any more A330's due for ASL?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:13 pm

BOEING777EK wrote:
Are there any more A330's due for ASL?


I suppose so, DHL has 8 A330 conversions on firm order.
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Stitch
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:05 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
So the nose-down angle is not an issue for the operators or is it just not possible to reconfigure the nose gear section?


I expect the modifications are too expensive to justify when they can just jack up the front of the plane if they require a flat load floor.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:40 am

Another view of the fully finished aircraft. Does anybody know if it will be painted in DHL colors?

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Uploaded by Martin Rogosz http://www.skybird-ev.de/p2f/2017/fp----17.html
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blrsea
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:47 am

What do they replace the windows with? Is it more like aluminum like the aircraft's outer skin?
 
bwvilla
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:44 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
So the nose-down angle is not an issue for the operators or is it just not possible to reconfigure the nose gear section?


Has a mechanised cargo handling system and the incline is no issue
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:26 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Another view of the fully finished aircraft. Does anybody know if it will be painted in DHL colors?

Image
Uploaded by Martin Rogosz http://www.skybird-ev.de/p2f/2017/fp----17.html

I hope so, as the reinforcements to the frame are pretty obvious in the picture.
 
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Stitch
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:58 pm

blrsea wrote:
What do they replace the windows with? Is it more like aluminum like the aircraft's outer skin?


The windows are removed and an aluminum plug is installed in it's place.
 
tvh
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Stitch wrote:
blrsea wrote:
What do they replace the windows with? Is it more like aluminum like the aircraft's outer skin?


The windows are removed and an aluminum plug is installed in it's place.


Does that save weight ? Otherwise why the trouble?
 
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Revelation
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

tvh wrote:
Stitch wrote:
blrsea wrote:
What do they replace the windows with? Is it more like aluminum like the aircraft's outer skin?


The windows are removed and an aluminum plug is installed in it's place.


Does that save weight ? Otherwise why the trouble?

Saves maintenance cost as well as weight.
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Stitch
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

tvh wrote:
Stitch wrote:
blrsea wrote:
What do they replace the windows with? Is it more like aluminum like the aircraft's outer skin?

The windows are removed and an aluminum plug is installed in it's place.

Does that save weight ? Otherwise why the trouble?


From what I hear, the weight is a wash (the more windows you plug, the heavier the combined weight of the plugs is). However, the plugs are much more reliable from a maintenance perspective and with the inside of the fuselage covered in thick cargo liners, getting to the windows for maintenance is extremely difficult. So they plug them from a maintenance savings perspective rather than a weight savings one.
 
WIederling
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:09 pm

Stitch wrote:
tvh wrote:
Stitch wrote:
The windows are removed and an aluminum plug is installed in it's place.

Does that save weight ? Otherwise why the trouble?


From what I hear, the weight is a wash (the more windows you plug, the heavier the combined weight of the plugs is). However, the plugs are much more reliable from a maintenance perspective and with the inside of the fuselage covered in thick cargo liners, getting to the windows for maintenance is extremely difficult. So they plug them from a maintenance savings perspective rather than a weight savings one.


plugging windows counts per plugged window.
There is no penalty for plugging more :-)

Though the maintenance reduction counting more than the weight reduction is probably correct.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Stitch
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:16 pm

WIederling wrote:
plugging windows counts per plugged window. There is no penalty for plugging more :-)


Some people have said that on large planes with lots of windows the combined weight of the plugs was greater than the combined weight of the windows removed. Others noted on smaller planes with less windows that the plug weighed less than the window so overall the airframe ended up lighter. So maybe the larger planes with larger windows have larger and heavier plugs. *shrug*
 
blrsea
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 am

Good info, thanks guys! Had another question. After the modification, does the passenger cabin hold same type of containers as the cargo hold (LD3/2 etc)? Or can they hold bigger size containers, as passenger area is much bigger? Do they plug some of the doors too, as they are no longer required?
 
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Stitch
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:43 am

blrsea wrote:
After the modification, does the passenger cabin hold same type of containers as the cargo hold (LD3/2 etc)? Or can they hold bigger size containers, as passenger area is much bigger?

The main deck can take much larger pallets and ULDs then the hold. On an A330, the most common size pallet/ULD would be 96x125" side-by-side.


blrsea wrote:
Do they plug some of the doors too, as they are no longer required?


I would expect the doors other the forward and aft sets would be plugged.
 
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precure787
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:56 am

The A330 P2F looks like a great candidate for a modernization project for many airlines.
Edward Zen/Precure 787
 
HPRamper
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:42 pm

blrsea wrote:
Good info, thanks guys! Had another question. After the modification, does the passenger cabin hold same type of containers as the cargo hold (LD3/2 etc)? Or can they hold bigger size containers, as passenger area is much bigger? Do they plug some of the doors too, as they are no longer required?

LD3/2 would be belly only. Upper deck containers are much larger - AAD/AAX type most likely on this size of aircraft.
 
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BOEING777EK
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 pm

So what's the status of HS-TEM? it's the next A330 for DHL after TRI and TEL which is at conversion right now I would imagine TEM being de-mothballed by now and completing engine runs test flights before heading for a maintenance check.
 
trex8
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:54 am

bwvilla wrote:
Lilienthal wrote:
So the nose-down angle is not an issue for the operators or is it just not possible to reconfigure the nose gear section?


Has a mechanised cargo handling system and the incline is no issue

So the factory A330-200F has no powered floor system?????
 
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Aesma
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Re: DHL orders additional A330-300 P2F

Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:17 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
ap305 wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Oh I didnt know that the A333 was also now part of the P2F program which I'm really happy it is now !

How many tons can the A333F uplift? As the B77F does 101T and MD11F has 80.


You can find the relevant data for the a33p2f here

http://www.elbeflugzeugwerke.com/filead ... 2F_web.pdf


With the A333 P2F being able to uplift just 1 tonne more than the A332 P2F, what is the use of it? Unless mail/courier carriers like DHL want the extra volume over the lack of extra weight uplift - the internal volume is the only thing I can think of that would be of benefit to airlines.


Don't mix P2F and pure freighters, P2F have always less capacity (but cost a lot less).

The 777F has a different floor than the 777 PAX, the A330F has the ugly blister, pure freighters come with no provisions for galleys, lavs, IFEs, simplified aircon, etc., they're quite different from PAX A/C.
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