n471wn
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SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:41 pm

As we all know all the 300's will be gone by Oct 1st which means that 66 a/c flying today will be on the ground. This is a staggering number and equal to the size of all of Frontier as a comparison. With the exception of a bankruptcy, I know of no other event in the history of airline fleet reduction which comes even close to this number.
 
737max8
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:55 pm

On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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n471wn
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:55 pm

737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.

Yes equally impressive!!
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:20 pm

Have they got 66 aircraft coming in 3 months?
 
IPFreely
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:34 pm

737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.


A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:36 pm

Has any buyer (another airline or aircraft lessor) been announced for any of these frames? Or is their value basically scrap value?
 
KarlB737
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:37 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
Have they got 66 aircraft coming in 3 months?


I expect this is when we will see some routes, frequencies and/or cities cut to assist in this transformation.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:38 pm

IPFreely wrote:
737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.


A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.
Huh? Are you saying that they are going to close stations this fall when the planes are retired that they haven't announced yet (and are still selling tickets for)? I find that very unlikely.
 
simairlinenet
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:40 pm

n471wn wrote:
As we all know all the 300's will be gone by Oct 1st which means that 66 a/c flying today will be on the ground. This is a staggering number and equal to the size of all of Frontier as a comparison. With the exception of a bankruptcy, I know of no other event in the history of airline fleet reduction which comes even close to this number.

I believe the record is United in 2008 (94 737s)--but happy for someone to find higher.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008 ... ited-plans
 
Jshank83
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:40 pm

IPFreely wrote:
737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.


A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.



They already have their schedule out into next March. The only stations closing are a couple in Cuba.
Last edited by Jshank83 on Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:40 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
Have they got 66 aircraft coming in 3 months?


I expect this is when we will see some routes, frequencies and/or cities cut to assist in this transformation.
Guys, the schedules are out through next February. What they are doing can been seen by all right now in plain sight.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:41 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.


A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.
Huh? Are you saying that they are going to close stations this fall when the planes are retired that they haven't announced yet (and are still selling tickets for)? I find that very unlikely.


Right. You don't make cities available for sale 'knowing' that you will close some of them in the midst of that sales cycle.
 
ScottB
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:43 pm

IPFreely wrote:
A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.


Not really. Southwest did announce the closures of VRA and SNU just this week on very short notice, but that appears to be more tied to the structural issues with travel to secondary Cuban markets. The remaining 733s all will be parked at the end of the summer and the fall schedules have been more-or-less final for months already. If a station were to be closed as a result of the fleet reduction, that would already have been announced.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:46 pm

By April 2018 they will back at positive fleet growth. All the 737-300 will have been replaced by a mix of used 737-700, new800 & MAX!

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:40 pm

simairlinenet wrote:
n471wn wrote:
As we all know all the 300's will be gone by Oct 1st which means that 66 a/c flying today will be on the ground. This is a staggering number and equal to the size of all of Frontier as a comparison. With the exception of a bankruptcy, I know of no other event in the history of airline fleet reduction which comes even close to this number.

I believe the record is United in 2008 (94 737s)--but happy for someone to find higher.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008 ... ited-plans

That was my first thought when I saw this. UA's mass disposal of the 737 fleet had pretty major ramifications, because they had capacity shortages essentially until the CO merger. It also partly accounted for their huge increase in express contracts. The number of aircraft and the speed at which they were retired was truly unprecedented.
 
jbmitt
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Didn't the majors park 727s quickly after 9/11? I recall DL phasing out 727, L1011, 733 (glass and non-glass) 732 all in short order.
 
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United_fan
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:50 pm

United retired around 75 737-200's and 727-200's the end of October 2001.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
VS11
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:58 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Has any buyer (another airline or aircraft lessor) been announced for any of these frames? Or is their value basically scrap value?


They could be converted to cargo planes even though 738s are now being converted to cargo so WN's planes may not be worth the conversion investment.
 
wjcandee
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:59 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Has any buyer (another airline or aircraft lessor) been announced for any of these frames? Or is their value basically scrap value?


They will be priced low enough that some will make good candidates for freighter conversion. Others will find their way to crap airlines in other countries, constituting an upgrade of those airlines' fleets. Others will be parted out. Although I'm guessing that some are relatively high-cycle, all will have been very-well-maintained.
 
dbo861
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:00 pm

United_fan wrote:
United retired around 75 737-200's and 727-200's the end of October 2001.


Was this planned, or part of the 9/11 downturn?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:37 pm

dbo861 wrote:
United_fan wrote:
United retired around 75 737-200's and 727-200's the end of October 2001.


Was this planned, or part of the 9/11 downturn?


Definitely 9/11 was the primary driver.
-Dave
 
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United_fan
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:00 pm

737-400's make better freighters due to their length. I read that there is a greater chance of a loader hitting the engine on a -300.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
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Spacepope
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:15 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Has any buyer (another airline or aircraft lessor) been announced for any of these frames? Or is their value basically scrap value?


At least 7 have found new homes off the top of my head, with 6 being converted to fire tankers for Coulson.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
737max8
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:16 pm

WN has already sold some -300s to Coulson to fight fires.

And yes, while it is technically 20 A/C down in 2017, this is made up by the fact that most of the new deliveries are 175 seaters vs 143, plus reducing spares airplanes and frequencies in the plan for the time being. It's gunna be over fall/winter as well which isn't really that huge except for the Holidays. There is a reason the classics retire after the summer :)
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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Sooner787
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:37 pm

Last summer AA flew 20 something retired S80's to Roswell in one day,
wonder if we'll see something similiar from Love Field to Roswell? :)
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:56 pm

This retirement is been constantly mis-construed. They are retiring the aircraft at the end of the summer season, and have less capacity through the slow winter months. By April 2018 they will have mave more capacity than they do now, the 733 retirements will have been replaced seat-for-seat and then some. This sounds like smart capex to me, not something to freak out over. No point paying for an expensive asset through the slowest trading period of the year when you don't need it.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
802flyguy
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:04 pm

Not sure how many aircraft (but someone here will know), US Airways parked their 737-200s (Metrojet) MD-80s, and F-100 just after 9/11...
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:04 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Has any buyer (another airline or aircraft lessor) been announced for any of these frames? Or is their value basically scrap value?

They will probably go for scarp however some are becoming tankers.
 
DfwAussie
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:05 pm

IPFreely wrote:
737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?

87 retirements also is the total for this year.

This all per the press release about last year's results.


A net reduction of 20 planes is a strong indication that the expected station closures will become reality by year end.


No it isn't. What is your source for such a claim?
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:10 pm

United_fan wrote:
737-400's make better freighters due to their length. I read that there is a greater chance of a loader hitting the engine on a -300.

They sure do but the 300 series does good for mail services and small demand services.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:10 pm

The desert is going to be filling fast!!!
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Joost
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:24 pm

How is seasonality for the domestic market as SWA servers in the USA? 66 aircraft is about 9% of the fleet. And considering that the -300s are heavier on maintenance and likely don't fly as much as their newer counterparts, I guess they make up some 7% of the ASM. Would this be comparable to a normal winter reduction?

In the European market at least, this would be very normal. As a small scale comparison, KLM Cityhopper will ground 8x F70 (on a fleet of 47 aircraft) by October 31. They are receiving E175s as a replacement, but these won't be there all by November. However, the (regular) reduction during the winter makes this possible - and by the Summer of 2018, all new E175s will be delivered to operate the summer schedule.
 
qfatwa
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:44 pm

737max8 wrote:
WN has already sold some -300s to Coulson to fight fires.

And yes, while it is technically 20 A/C down in 2017, this is made up by the fact that most of the new deliveries are 175 seaters vs 143, plus reducing spares airplanes and frequencies in the plan for the time being. It's gunna be over fall/winter as well which isn't really that huge except for the Holidays. There is a reason the classics retire after the summer :)


Effectively, 5 x 175 seaters = 6 x 143 seaters [total seats : 875 vs 858], so 5 new 738s can replace 6 x 733s in simple terms.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:58 pm

Anyone know when WN will start parking the older (Pre-2000) delivered -700's? Or do they still have some life left in them?
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tkoenig95
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:11 pm

Has WN released any lists regarding reductions in frequencies of particular routes, axing certain routes, etc.?
 
Jshank83
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:15 pm

tkoenig95 wrote:
Has WN released any lists regarding reductions in frequencies of particular routes, axing certain routes, etc.?


They give updates with their schedule extensions. I don't have links handy but you can find them in their blog/forum on their site.

OR you can look at enrillas weekly updates after they announce their schedules.
 
MO11
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:21 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
Last summer AA flew 20 something retired S80's to Roswell in one day,
wonder if we'll see something similiar from Love Field to Roswell? :)


No, we won't.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:58 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know when WN will start parking the older (Pre-2000) delivered -700's? Or do they still have some life left in them?

WN can fly two types of 737s...they will be the NG and the MAX. That is why the Classics are being retired.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:07 pm

I ended up on a WN 737-300 this past April when flying the very last SAT-DAL flight of the night. There was a whopping 10 of us on board! I believe the aging 733s are primarily used on intra-Texas routes these days, much like the -200's and -500's were in their final days before retirement. However, the condition of the old Classic was *far* better than I expected. Even Cranky Flier stated that one of these old birds "looked pretty good" (on his recent LGB-LAS flight). Yes, he and I are avid WN fliers, but when you consider how hard WN worked these planes over the years, it's very impressive.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
Jshank83
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:17 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I ended up on a WN 737-300 this past April when flying the very last SAT-DAL flight of the night. There was a whopping 10 of us on board! I believe the aging 733s are primarily used on intra-Texas routes these days, much like the -200's and -500's were in their final days before retirement. However, the condition of the old Classic was *far* better than I expected. Even Cranky Flier stated that one of these old birds "looked pretty good" (on his recent LGB-LAS flight). Yes, he and I are avid WN fliers, but when you consider how hard WN worked these planes over the years, it's very impressive.


They still fly them fairly often to from/to STL. I was on one to Denver recently. I have seen them in the schedule to BNA, DEN, BOS, as well as some others that I can't remember off hand. I will be happy when they are gone though... haha.
 
XRadar98
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:19 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know when WN will start parking the older (Pre-2000) delivered -700's? Or do they still have some life left in them?

WN can fly two types of 737s...they will be the NG and the MAX. That is why the Classics are being retired.



Not answering the question at all.
 
NorthTexAAs
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:30 pm

737max8 wrote:
On the other hand, how does 67 new deliveries in a year stack up in history?


American took deliver of 119 new aircraft in 2015, 97 in 2016 and on track to take 73 this year.
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:36 pm

XRadar98 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know when WN will start parking the older (Pre-2000) delivered -700's? Or do they still have some life left in them?

WN can fly two types of 737s...they will be the NG and the MAX. That is why the Classics are being retired.



Not answering the question at all.


The answer is not anytime soon. WN flies their planes for a long time. Given the shorter routes they fly, they may be getting up there in cycles though.
 
727LOVER
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:56 am

United_fan wrote:
United retired around 75 737-200's and 727-200's the end of October 2001.


Are you sure....because I though the number was higher.

As I recall, they started 2001 with 75 727-200 & 24 737-200, On the morning of September 11, 2001, I believe they

had around 65-70 of the 727 and still all 24 of the 732. All were gone by Nov 1

So that's about 90 or so aircraft in less than 60 days.
So the OP is wrong that WN holds the record
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Okcflyer
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:10 am

SonomaFlyer wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
WN can fly two types of 737s...they will be the NG and the MAX. That is why the Classics are being retired.



Not answering the question at all.


The answer is not anytime soon. WN flies their planes for a long time. Given the shorter routes they fly, they may be getting up there in cycles though.


The NG fuse construction method / design is quite different than what the classics/jurassics used. The NG method is considerably more robust and less likely to exhibit fatigue issues at high cycle counts and the corresponding repairs/patches/doublers.
 
strfyr51
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:46 am

the dash 300's and 500's have got to be getting Long in the tooth necessitating more repairs and the upcoming AD Note for center tank nitrogen inerting.
That alone would seem to spell Doom for all non modified airplanes. Which could be why WN hasn't yet started Hawaii Service.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:53 am

strfyr51 wrote:
the dash 300's and 500's have got to be getting Long in the tooth necessitating more repairs and the upcoming AD Note for center tank nitrogen inerting.
That alone would seem to spell Doom for all non modified airplanes. Which could be why WN hasn't yet started Hawaii Service.


All -500s have long since been parked.
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ODwyerPW
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:58 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
WN can fly two types of 737s...they will be the NG and the MAX. That is why the Classics are being retired.


This is the reason. Those 300s have to be parked in order to put the MAX in service. There are several 8MAXes (boy that's an akward plural) waiting in the wings.
learning never stops.
 
n7371f
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:58 am

United_fan wrote:
United retired around 75 737-200's and 727-200's the end of October 2001.


I believe this was all done on one day and like you mention I think it was last day of October. I know I was flying out of GEG that day and a 72A was heading to O'Hare and that was it.

UA had something like 50-55 72A's and 24 73A's (all 73A from Frontier) and service ended on one, single day.
 
MesserJ
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Re: SWA will park 66 a/c in next 3 months--another record

Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:16 am

FlyUSAir wrote:
Anyone know when WN will start parking the older (Pre-2000) delivered -700's? Or do they still have some life left in them?

I'm sure it will be a while before we start seeing retirements there. Even some of the used -700s they've acquired over the last few years are around that age.

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