dubaiamman243
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Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:52 pm

Dubai Airports CEO, Mr. Paul Griffiths is seriously considering options for a high speed link from DXB to DWC. one of the options include a drop off facility in the heart of Dubai to DWC . The CEO is looking for pods that can transfer passengers between both airports in 6 mins.

" Dubai’s primary airport, Dubai International will begin shifting operations to what is currently the city’s secondary airport at Al Maktoum International (DWC) in 2022, according to Griffiths. Dubai Airports is aiming to ultimately plans grow total traffic to 240 million by 2050."

Will this move persuade some carriers to move to DWC along with the incentives given?

Source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/content/ ... ink-to-dwc
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:29 pm

Dubai needs a high speed transit between the airports, but also enabling passengers to get to the two airports. Perhaps a maximum of 3 stops, with each stop at a hub of the current mass transit system? I'm all for simple, so perhaps follow the purple line and just stop where the green and pink lines intersect?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Met ... an_Map.jpg

Lightsaber
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Clipper101
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:14 pm

Clipper101 wrote:
dubaiamman243 wrote:
The CEO is looking for pods that can transfer passengers between both airports in 6 mins.


Looks to me he is hitting here on a Hyperloop connection


Found this link with a possible Hyperloop One plan showing a connection between DXB - DWC - AUH among other stops:

http://whatson.ae/dubai/2017/03/hyperloop-one-dubai/

This clip (among others on youtube) shows proposed pods concept of Hyperloop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fu-6IDp3Fo
 
RogerMurdock
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:16 pm

How about a high speed link between terminals at DXB first. It's so much fun waiting 30 minutes for a slow, dilapidated minibus with a luggage trailer that has to stop for aircraft crossings.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:34 pm

RogerMurdock wrote:
How about a high speed link between terminals at DXB first. It's so much fun waiting 30 minutes for a slow, dilapidated minibus with a luggage trailer that has to stop for aircraft crossings.

This is just what I was about to say. Six minutes for a DXB - DWC transfer is all well and good, but how about they get the T2 transfer to T1/T3 to something under an hour first? It seems like they have a tendency to get ahead of themselves on a number of projects. They get distracted by big, shiny things without focusing on improving the existing operation.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:03 pm

Clipper101 wrote:
Clipper101 wrote:
dubaiamman243 wrote:
The CEO is looking for pods that can transfer passengers between both airports in 6 mins.


Looks to me he is hitting here on a Hyperloop connection


Found this link with a possible Hyperloop One plan showing a connection between DXB - DWC - AUH among other stops:

http://whatson.ae/dubai/2017/03/hyperloop-one-dubai/

This clip (among others on youtube) shows proposed pods concept of Hyperloop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fu-6IDp3Fo

Your links show a 500m link weighing a million kg. The cost of hyperloop will always be high:
1. Vacuum costs. The videos lack the proper airlocks and such.
2. The video shows a clear tube. OMG would that be costly per km...

I like the pods/base carrier approach, but the weight tells me it is high cost. Elevated ways are costly too. Nice, but for these distances, using good old fashioned 80lb/ft or 120lb/ft rail would be good enough and much cheaper.

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Clipper101
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:38 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I like the pods/base carrier approach, but the weight tells me it is high cost. Elevated ways are costly too. Nice, but for these distances, using good old fashioned 80lb/ft or 120lb/ft rail would be good enough and much cheaper.


Project is expected to cost $4.8B per this link:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/abu-dhab ... 50603.html

Somehow I recall Dubai metro had a $7B tag to it !
 
Kilopond
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:40 pm

For their small distances, sub-highspeed trains would be a perfect match. I'm talking about speeds of 160 km/h or slightly above. Those are widely spread in Europe as regional and commuter trains.

It has been proved in real life that speeds over 160 km/h will increase costs dramatically, mainly because of air resistance/drag.

Just like "Hyperloop" there had been more failed attempts to outwit natural laws. Look at "Swissmetro" (very smart at first glance, but too good to ever become true):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissmetro
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:21 am

If they really want to innovative, do something like inline baggage handling system, but for passengers. Have 2/4/6 passenger secure/sterile pods from gate-to-gate between DXB and DWC. Allow only one party in a pod.

Connecting terminals is an antiquated idea and an afterthought "link" only makes it worse for passengers who have to navigate through a maze to find the station in their terminal. Use the link and find their way to gate.

Link can be supersonic without adding any value.
 
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par13del
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:59 am

...for high speed rail the heat and its effect on the rails will be interesting.
 
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SR380
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:19 am

Why not a "simple" maglev train such as the one they have in Shanghai Pudong airport? This is a proven technology, yet cheaper than the Hyperloop (1.2Bn$ for a 19 miles track), and that could be built as of tomorrow. This train can go as fast as 190mph, with an average speed of 140mph, more than enough to link the two airports. This could also transport way more passengers, and bags than the tinny Hyperloop, while offering bay Windows to enjoy the view.
 
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RL777
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:48 am

Connecting the two airports efficiently will be vital. I'd imagine a sub-hs design would work well and allow for a much more reasonable budget.
 
r2rho
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:55 am

As others have said, what's the point of a 6min train ride if you spend 30min or more between terminals at DXB?
I am no fan of split hubs, even if connected by a train. But I still see a case for a fast train between both airports, mainly because the transition to DWC will take longer than they thought, and a parallel operation for some time seems inevitable. But then, don't just limit it to connecting the airports, bring it into the city, and maybe even onward to Abu Dhabi.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:04 am

Clipper101 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I like the pods/base carrier approach, but the weight tells me it is high cost. Elevated ways are costly too. Nice, but for these distances, using good old fashioned 80lb/ft or 120lb/ft rail would be good enough and much cheaper.


Project is expected to cost $4.8B per this link:

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/abu-dhab ... 50603.html

Somehow I recall Dubai metro had a $7B tag to it !


The link is to a different project (Dubai - Abu Dhabi, 150 km), not to the DXB - DWC connection.
 
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Clipper101
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:19 am

Finn350 wrote:
The link is to a different project (Dubai - Abu Dhabi, 150 km), not to the DXB - DWC connection.


Per link in my above preceding reply:

"The plan shows that Hyperloop One intends to connect the two emirates, which are 150km apart. The map reveals that they are looking into connecting Dubai Airport, the Burj Khalifa, Dubai Marina, Al Maktoum Airport, Abu Dhabi Airport and the centre of Abu Dhabi (with offshoots to the major ports too)"

Image

If you found a newer plan then please post link.
 
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Finn350
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:52 am

Clipper101 wrote:
Finn350 wrote:
The link is to a different project (Dubai - Abu Dhabi, 150 km), not to the DXB - DWC connection.


Per link in my above preceding reply:

"The plan shows that Hyperloop One intends to connect the two emirates, which are 150km apart. The map reveals that they are looking into connecting Dubai Airport, the Burj Khalifa, Dubai Marina, Al Maktoum Airport, Abu Dhabi Airport and the centre of Abu Dhabi (with offshoots to the major ports too)"

Image

If you found a newer plan then please post link.


Ok, pardon my inaccuracy. Just to clarify that the plan is not just connecting the two Dubai airports but Abu Dhabi, too.
 
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Clipper101
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 am

Finn350 wrote:
Ok, pardon my inaccuracy. Just to clarify that the plan is not just connecting the two Dubai airports but Abu Dhabi, too.


This is what I stated in my preceding post:

Found this link with a possible Hyperloop One plan showing a connection between DXB - DWC - AUH among other stops
 
andrej
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:29 am

If anywhere, HyperLoop will be build in Dubai. :) So, for me, top candidate to link DXB and DWC is the HyperLoop.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:48 am

If you want a "sterile" connection airport terminal DXB with DWC, than that should be done independently of any airport to town connection. You can do sterile on railway, look at the Eurostar operation. It is more similar to how airports operate than normal railway. If you get on the train in Brussels, you pass UK immigration and luggage check in Brussels. It is a separate fenced off area where you board the train. Same happens in Lille Europe. Just think like two different points to clear security to go to the same sterile area. Most high speed tracks are anyway fenced off.
I think it does not matter what high speed system one would use. The speed if 160 km or up to to 1,000 km per hour, does not do a lot of difference on such a distance, a normal Maglev could do 400 to 500 km/h, it depends rather on the access to the train station in the terminal and frequency of trains.
 
gtargui
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:48 am

mjoelnir wrote:
If you want a "sterile" connection airport terminal DXB with DWC, than that should be done independently of any airport to town connection. You can do sterile on railway, look at the Eurostar operation. It is more similar to how airports operate than normal railway. If you get on the train in Brussels, you pass UK immigration and luggage check in Brussels. It is a separate fenced off area where you board the train. Same happens in Lille Europe. Just think like two different points to clear security to go to the same sterile area. Most high speed tracks are anyway fenced off.
I think it does not matter what high speed system one would use. The speed if 160 km or up to to 1,000 km per hour, does not do a lot of difference on such a distance, a normal Maglev could do 400 to 500 km/h, it depends rather on the access to the train station in the terminal and frequency of trains.


I think that would be perfect. Just have fenced off platforms at DXB, DWC, and AUH and direct trains between them. I'm sure the UAE has more than enough money to build separate freight, airside, and landside tracks meaning you wouldn't have your 320 kph bullet trains stopped behind a half kilometre long freight train going 70 kph.

Of course, like other people are saying, connections between terminals at DXB should be the main priority. Saying that, they could kill two birds with one stone and have a Heathrow-style system where you transfer terminals using the train that you can use to get out of the airport
 
Zaf
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:06 pm

what a waste, just build a high speed rail or maglev from city to DWC within the next 2 years and once you're done close DXB.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Dubai Airports CEO wants high speed link DXB-DWC

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:29 pm

Zaf wrote:
what a waste, just build a high speed rail or maglev from city to DWC within the next 2 years and once you're done close DXB.


Or build a high-speed taxiway between DXB-DWC. There are tugs capable of doing 80 MPH. Just build runways at DWC and more terminals at DXB by removing existing runways.

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