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PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:16 am

jetero wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Yes, one of three stories. I would not be a bit surprised to find out that the airline did everything it could. I would also not be a bit surprised to find out they didn't. In her tweets, she was very specific about not getting an explanation, an apology, or compensation. If it turns out that's false, shame on her. If it's true, though, what I described might have saved us all a bunch of back and forth.


Perfectly sensible and hard to tell from your original response when you question why anyone who defends an airline in cases like these is a glutton for punishment and likes to be dragged off an airplane.


Well, I gave you an example when you pointed out how plenty of tall people would be ok with the move. As if that mattered to her? Or how the thread focused on it being ok because of who it allegedly happened to, as if that matters to the next guy/girl. If the story - as she told it - was accurate (and that's all we had to go on at the moment), wouldn't any reasonable person expect an explanation or an apology? That seemed to be lost in the celebrity of it all.
-Dave
 
panampreflight
Posts: 132
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:36 am

She needs to pursue a explanation from DL. I would, if they are going to be charging for the seats [on top of the fare] they need to get this crap straightened out. I
have been around the world over 40 times and still do not understand how these things happen.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:40 am

panampreflight wrote:
She needs to pursue a explanation from DL. I would, if they are going to be charging for the seats [on top of the fare] they need to get this crap straightened out. I
have been around the world over 40 times and still do not understand how these things happen.


Delta said they've contacted her. For all we know, it didn't happen as stated. Because it wasn't a huge event, we likely won't ever know the outcome.
-Dave
 
panampreflight
Posts: 132
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:46 am

I agree, This is all true!.
 
744pnf
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:50 am

UPDATE:

“It appears her new seat was in the same row, just not the exact seat she had selected,” a Delta spokesman wrote to The Washington Post.

“It was an exit row seat (has extra leg room),” he wrote. “She was moved from an aisle to a window. Same space, a few seats over.”

Regardless, the spokesman said the airline would reach out to Coulter about her concerns on the New York-to-Florida flight.
 
ual763
Topic Author
Posts: 57
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:05 am

Things are getting interesting now. Appears to be the start of a twitter battle between Delta and Ms. Coulter. Even though I think Ms. Coulter was justified in complaining and calling Delta out, I don't think the way she took a photo of other passengers was warranted and I must commend Delta for telling her that. However, with regard to an employee, she should be able to post photo and/or video of them. Will be interesting to see how she responds to Delta's latest comment.

http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2017/07/16/ ... nst-delta/
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:17 am

Either cheap or extremely bad with money.


TONS of reasons she could have been flying commercial. I find it oddly ironic that the wealthy and famous are often condemned for flying on private jets, spewing tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere and allegedly too highbrow to rub elbows with the rest of us, and then when they do fly commercial they're condemned for doing just that.

Heck, a lot of us could afford to fly first class or business class, and yet we choose to fly coach. Why? It's not that we're bad with money, it's that we're trying to save some money. Or, we bought our tickets at the last minute for various reasons. Or, there could be a multitude of other reasons. Calling Ms. Coulter cheap or bad with money is... Poor form.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 am

ual763 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
ual763 wrote:
Besides their profits tumbling, Delta is finally getting some negative PR thrown their way today.


Why did you phrase it saying "finally" some negative PR alongside of profits tumbling?

Seems like you were just waiting some something to happen.


I'm a retired captain from one of their competitors. It was a jab, that's all. Nothing against Delta, I know a lot of great people there. Just a little competitive bias.


thank you for at least owning up to the bias in your phrasing of the title and text.
But.... curse you for turning what really is a non-aviation topic (pax outrage over unclear seating dispute) into a horrifying sh*t-show of angry partisanship (and yes, its because you framed it as "now its Deltas turn to take the heat, look what they did to .....".

I don't like Delta, and I don't like Ann Coulter. But I can see quite clearly who and what is unreasonable here.

I wish you would have found a different way to "jab". It isn't helpful to the harmony of a.net.
 
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braynfeeble
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:48 am

Who the heck is Ann Coulter?
♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
 
aaflyer777
Posts: 151
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:49 am

I can see why she'd be upset, I mean seat 15D does land before seat 15A
 
CO953
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:05 am

Re: Delta Finally Getting Some Negative Coverage

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:14 am

ual763 wrote:
pallvidar wrote:
So we can't put our political opinions aside for a few moment to discuss Delta's mistake regardless of who was at the receiving end of it?


Apparently not. Thought people could keep it more civil.


What he said.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:14 am

aaflyer777 wrote:
I can see why she'd be upset, I mean seat 15D does land before seat 15A


Get on any Delta flight during the business week that's going to any business destination. Randomly walk down the aisle and ask any guy in a suit whether you can have his seat because you don't like yours.

Chances are that this person specifically booked an aisle because most business travelers like aisle seats. Absent any other explanation by you, chances are you will be told that he would prefer to keep his pre-reserved aisle seat. In many cases, you will be told very aggressively to get lost. That's the reality.

Now here is Coulter, a frequent flier who booked a seat at an extra charge well in advance, probably after having researched it on SeatGuru or similar. If regular fliers didn't care about their seats in a big way, SeatGuru and the like wouldn't be so amazingly popular. She picked the seat, paid extra for it, and was unceremoniously bounced from it. I have no problem with her documenting the situation because absent the photos, the airline's first response would be to come up with some bs excuse about it being needed for important operational reasons that they weren't going to discuss. Seeing a photo of what was apparently a family sitting there made her point and eliminated the debate. They are in a public place. People can photograph legally in a public place unless it interferes with safety, blah-blah, which this didn't. People have no control over the use of their likeness unless it is for a commercial reason. (Cops encounter this every time they try to arrest someone these days, so people should get over it already.)

In short, she may have been aggressive about publicizing her situation, and used language and imagery that most of us wouldn't, but I think she has a beef. And it's obvious that DL customer service is torquing her around because of who she is ("we'll refund the $30"...oh, please). So expect her to keep pummeling. Which is her right.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:35 am

wjcandee wrote:
it's obvious that DL customer service is torquing her around because of who she is


sorry, but no - that is not obvious to me.

whats worse than Delta's mistake is her treatment of other pax . its one thing for you or I to (as you say, within the law) tweet out photos of "the short woman with dog-like legs who took my seat" ( I am paraphrasing and consolidating) , and quite another for a celebrity with a large following to do so. She full well knows that her communications carry more negative weight and stress for people who, like her, are just trying to get someplace.

Delta may have made a seat assignment error; but nothing thus far indicates they did anything because of who she is.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:50 am

FlyHappy wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
it's obvious that DL customer service is torquing her around because of who she is


sorry, but no - that is not obvious to me.

whats worse than Delta's mistake is her treatment of other pax . its one thing for you or I to (as you say, within the law) tweet out photos of "the short woman with dog-like legs who took my seat" ( I am paraphrasing and consolidating) , and quite another for a celebrity with a large following to do so. She full well knows that her communications carry more negative weight and stress for people who, like her, are just trying to get someplace.

Delta may have made a seat assignment error; but nothing thus far indicates they did anything because of who she is.


We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not talking about the seat change, but the DL PR person who called the Washington Post found a sympathetic audience and clearly offered the stupid explanation ("Hey, it was the SAME ROW. What's she complaining about? We'll refund her $30, even.") because they knew there would be zero pushback from the media, which hates Coulter. That's a big public FU to her.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:55 am

wjcandee wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
it's obvious that DL customer service is torquing her around because of who she is


sorry, but no - that is not obvious to me.

whats worse than Delta's mistake is her treatment of other pax . its one thing for you or I to (as you say, within the law) tweet out photos of "the short woman with dog-like legs who took my seat" ( I am paraphrasing and consolidating) , and quite another for a celebrity with a large following to do so. She full well knows that her communications carry more negative weight and stress for people who, like her, are just trying to get someplace.

Delta may have made a seat assignment error; but nothing thus far indicates they did anything because of who she is.


We will have to agree to disagree. I'm not talking about the seat change, but the DL PR person who called the Washington Post found a sympathetic audience and clearly offered the stupid explanation ("Hey, it was the SAME ROW. What's she complaining about? We'll refund her $30, even.") because they knew there would be zero pushback from the media, which hates Coulter. That's a big public FU to her.


and if it had been you or I, we likely would not have even gotten a public response, much less the $30 refunded, and certainly no pushback from the media, so how does that equate to a big FU to her (just because its her/conservative)?

contrast the communications from her attacking the (non-existent) union at Delta, the woman (her height and legs), and the completely inexcusable pictures.
contrast her prior calls for Dr David Dao to be deported !
she's not a nice person, and she'll treat you that way whether you vote D or R.

but as you say, we'll agree to disagree, my friend.
 
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tlecam
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:15 am

I don't agree with how Ann Coulter handled this (or pretty much anything else). However, I have noticed the seat switching thing on DL more lately. It has happened to me three times in the last couple of months and I can't remember it happening to me at all (save for equipment swaps) in several years. Most recently, I was on a flight from BOS-LGA. Plane was an Embraer; I had 5C and was switched to 5D a few hours before take off. I'm not going to make an issue out of that, but I did ask how it happened in the lounge and they couldn't figure out what was going on.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
Mir
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:28 am

airzona11 wrote:
jetero wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Doing this to a person with 1.6 million Twitter followers is beyond stupid, so Delta deserves everything they're getting for this.


Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.


That is actually not a bad idea. If they are going to bump people from their seats, they should at least do it to people who won't result in publicity. Then they should come up with a strategy to proactively offer an explanation. Problem solved. Customer Service, it is a beast.


Customer Service is not telling people with common sense and self-respect that they're getting bumped because they're not whiny enough.

We don't know what happened to cause her seat to be reassigned. What we do know is that she posted a photo of other passengers who did nothing wrong in an attempt to shame them. If she wanted to share the photo with Delta privately, she could have. She did not. That is unacceptable, and Delta should make that clear to her. Any compensation she gets should be contingent on her apologizing publicly for that and committing not to do it again.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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jbpdx
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:46 am

My opinion of Delta has just improved 1000%.
 
michman
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:51 am

Mir wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
jetero wrote:


Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.


That is actually not a bad idea. If they are going to bump people from their seats, they should at least do it to people who won't result in publicity. Then they should come up with a strategy to proactively offer an explanation. Problem solved. Customer Service, it is a beast.


Customer Service is not telling people with common sense and self-respect that they're getting bumped because they're not whiny enough.

We don't know what happened to cause her seat to be reassigned. What we do know is that she posted a photo of other passengers who did nothing wrong in an attempt to shame them. If she wanted to share the photo with Delta privately, she could have. She did not. That is unacceptable, and Delta should make that clear to her. Any compensation she gets should be contingent on her apologizing publicly for that and committing not to do it again.



How do you know the other person had nothing to do with it? Maybe the other passenger demanded an aisle seat and had the agent put her there and move Coulter. I agree it was unfair for Coulter to assume the person had something to do with it without knowing all the facts. On the other hand, it's not exactly fair to assert the other passenger had absolutely nothing to do with it when you don't know the facts yourself.
 
Mir
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:00 am

wjcandee wrote:
And it's obvious that DL customer service is torquing her around because of who she is ("we'll refund the $30"...oh, please). So expect her to keep pummeling. Which is her right.


$30 is more than she deserves given her behavior. I hope Delta stands their ground.

Even if she hadn't insulted an innocent passenger, the $30 would still be appropriate. She would have ended up getting an exit row seat, essentially for free when she otherwise would have had to pay for it. That's a win in my book. Why would she feel like she's entitled to more?

michman wrote:
How do you know the other person had nothing to do with it? Maybe the other passenger demanded an aisle seat and had the agent put her there and move Coulter.


The only way it's that person's fault is if that person knew Ann Coulter would be sitting there (i.e. managed to see her boarding pass beforehand) and demanded that specific seat. That is so improbable that it can be discounted. Perhaps the person did want an aisle seat, and asked the gate agent for one, but then it's the gate agent's fault for doing the seat swap. All the person did was take the seat they were assigned. They deserve better than to be shamed on the internet for it.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:12 am

Mir wrote:
She would have ended up getting an exit row seat, essentially for free when she otherwise would have had to pay for it. That's a win in my book. Why would she feel like she's entitled to more?


We see this differently. Under many circumstances, I don't see the seat that I selected and paid for as fungible. And if someone is going to take it away, I think I deserve an explanation and perhaps even a consultation as to my views on it. Otherwise, the airline is just being high-handed. Maybe the guy behind Colter didn't care where he sat. Obviously, she did. Who is entitled to just decide with no warning that you don't get that seat anymore, after you are already sitting in it, absent an emergency or safety reason, and without exploring other options?

Forget for a second that you hate her and her behavior. Let's look instead at what the airline did, because that's what merits discussion.

There's a reason airlines post seat maps and ask you to select YOUR seat.

Otherwise, they should just post a map and say, "For another 30 bucks, pick the area you want to sit in and we'll do our best to seat you somewhere near there, at our option." That's not the offer, and not the accepted offer. And it's not an offer that would likely be accepted. Lots of extra fees wouldn't be paid, and lots of people would fly airlines that offered the option to pick a specific seat.

She followed the rules, paid her money, and sat in her assigned seat. Does nobody think it's a big deal that some f/a told her that she had no option but to move, with no explanation? (And I believe there was no explanation, otherwise, Colter would doubtless be hammering the reason the airline gave as stupid.)

As someone who regularly flies DL and likes the airline, I'm frankly shocked that they would do this to someone, because it means that they could do it to me. And I just don't like how high-handed this seems, and how they act like this is no big deal. If this happened to Bill DeBlasio, I'm sure that our Senator Schumer would be calling for hearings on it and the Connecticut Attorney General would be doing a fraud investigation regarding them holding out the option to select your seat and revoking it without any warning or explanation.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 2198
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Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:17 am

Quite the rampage for getting a seat changed. Sheesh. But, it would be nice to know how/why these things happen, and it would be great to have the airline explain itself for ripping off a customer.

Quite the low blow by DL to attack the passenger, no matter how "wrong" the passenger was. Matches their culture though. They only want your money, not a relationship.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 1450
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:20 am

Mir wrote:
She would have ended up getting an exit row seat, essentially for free when she otherwise would have had to pay for it. That's a win in my book. Why would she feel like she's entitled to more?


All exit row seats are not the same. If you paid extra for an exit row aisle or window seat then got moved to a middle seat when you got on the plane you might think it was fine, but you're the only one. And you're definitely the only one who would call it a "win" if the airline gave you a $30 refund, unwillingly and only after being publicly outed.

That said, Ann Coulter has only herself to blame for this entire incident.
 
wjcandee
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Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:22 am

MSPNWA wrote:
Quite the low blow by DL to attack the passenger, no matter how "wrong" the passenger was


Everyone in PR knows that you never, ever blame the customer; you let the customer make themself look stupid and you answer politely and sincerely. They go low, we go high. It is always the most-effective strategy.

Here, DL's PR people have given non-apology apologies and somewhat snarky answers that demonstrate that they figure that everyone hates Colter, and the media won't care, so they can be asses about it.

But to me, what they did was wrong and their reaction was worse and it's starting to make me think twice about how I feel about the brand.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:24 am

Mir wrote:
airzona11 wrote:
jetero wrote:


Alright, Delta Sales and Marketing group, are you hearing this? Please create a "Twitter Class" for where people with a certain number of followers can be sat and treated like gold.


That is actually not a bad idea. If they are going to bump people from their seats, they should at least do it to people who won't result in publicity. Then they should come up with a strategy to proactively offer an explanation. Problem solved. Customer Service, it is a beast.


Customer Service is not telling people with common sense and self-respect that they're getting bumped because they're not whiny enough.

We don't know what happened to cause her seat to be reassigned. What we do know is that she posted a photo of other passengers who did nothing wrong in an attempt to shame them. If she wanted to share the photo with Delta privately, she could have. She did not. That is unacceptable, and Delta should make that clear to her. Any compensation she gets should be contingent on her apologizing publicly for that and committing not to do it again.


What? So now it's ok for a company to take your money, then keep your money unless you jump through some hoops? Screw that. Statements like yours are what is wrong with airlines. And I am not supporting her behavior - the photo of the customer was ridiculous. That's a separate issue from getting what you pay for.

And $30 is $30 bucks. If you go out to dinner and they screw your nice meal up, do you expect them to say "And tough luck. Unless you apologize to your server for expressing your displeasure and promise to never do it again, you must pay up!" Screw that.

Whatever happened to customer service?
-Dave
 
Mir
Posts: 19356
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:32 am

wjcandee wrote:
Under many circumstances, I don't see the seat that I selected and paid for as fungible.


Which is why you should get refunded the cost of selecting it if you get moved, as I said. Unless, of course, you insult the airline's other passengers, at which point you've kind of forfeited your right to anything more than a "sorry this happened, we'll take steps to ensure it doesn't happen again" from the airline as far as I'm concerned.

wjcandee wrote:
And if someone is going to take it away, I think I deserve an explanation and perhaps even a consultation as to my views on it. Otherwise, the airline is just being high-handed. Maybe the guy behind Colter didn't care where he sat. Obviously, she did.


Unfortunately, the gate agents and flight attendants don't have time to ask the whole plane if there are people who don't care where they sit so that they can play musical chairs. People have places to go. That's why refunding the cost of the seat selection is appropriate.

wjcandee wrote:
There's a reason airlines post seat maps and ask you to select YOUR seat.

Otherwise, they should just post a map and say, "For another 30 bucks, pick the area you want to sit in and we'll do our best to seat you somewhere near there, at our option." That's not the offer, and not the accepted offer. And it's not an offer that would likely be accepted. Lots of extra fees wouldn't be paid, and lots of people would fly airlines that offered the option to pick a specific seat.

She followed the rules, paid her money, and sat in her assigned seat. Does nobody think it's a big deal that some f/a told her that she had no option but to move, with no explanation? (And I believe there was no explanation, otherwise, Colter would doubtless be hammering the reason the airline gave as stupid.)


No, it's not that big a deal. I'm not saying it should have happened - the airline made an error - but she still got a pretty nice seat, very similar to the one she paid for, and they're offering to refund her the money so she got it for free. A complaint to Delta, even a public one, is appropriate, but what is not appropriate is to go on a rant on social media for more than a day over $30, including insults and photos of other paying passengers. At that point, it's pretty obvious she's just bullying to try and up her compensation.

wjcandee wrote:
If this happened to Bill DeBlasio, I'm sure that our Senator Schumer would be calling for hearings on it and the Connecticut Attorney General would be doing a fraud investigation regarding them holding out the option to select your seat and revoking it without any warning or explanation.


That's ridiculous, and you know it.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:55 am

Mir, if the FA/Gate Agents don't have time to handle Ann Coulter appropriately, why do they have time to handle the other passenger? is it really that hard to handle it better than "We have to move you, and I don't know why"?

One thing about flying is that, as a passenger, we feel like we are giving up a lot of control (for lack of a better word). Getting that seat we searched for may seem trivial to the airline employee, but for some people it's more important than that. It's about the only thing we have control over in the experience, and to have it taken away without so much as an explanation or an apology or whatever is really just creating a bigger problem. You don't want someone to do a twitter tirade? Treat them with more respect.
-Dave
 
jfern022
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:03 am

Why has this discussion reached three pages? This is absurd.

If she really was someone, she would be in F/J. End of story. They moved her to a comparable W seat on the other side of the aisle. From what I have gathered from colleagues of mine, was she was asked to move seats as a courtesy and she declined. Well, unfortunately, if Delta sees a pressing need, they are going to go forward with it. Seats are reserved, but can be moved. It is within Delta's purview to do it. She needs to go back to what she does best and that's not being heard or seen.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:12 am

jfern022 wrote:
Why has this discussion reached three pages? This is absurd.

If she really was someone, she would be in F/J. End of story. They moved her to a comparable W seat on the other side of the aisle. From what I have gathered from colleagues of mine, was she was asked to move seats as a courtesy and she declined. Well, unfortunately, if Delta sees a pressing need, they are going to go forward with it. Seats are reserved, but can be moved. It is within Delta's purview to do it. She needs to go back to what she does best and that's not being heard or seen.


It is of course in Delta's right to do it. But is it right? Did they explain it to her? Or is it "Tough luck, customer. We've asked you nicely, but we should have just told you to move in the beginning because, well, we can."

Get over the who in the story - it doesn't matter. It's the how.
-Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:14 am

jfern022 wrote:
Why has this discussion reached three pages? This is absurd.

If she really was someone, she would be in F/J. End of story. They moved her to a comparable W seat on the other side of the aisle. From what I have gathered from colleagues of mine, was she was asked to move seats as a courtesy and she declined. Well, unfortunately, if Delta sees a pressing need, they are going to go forward with it. Seats are reserved, but can be moved. It is within Delta's purview to do it. She needs to go back to what she does best and that's not being heard or seen.


BTW, thanks for summing up how the airline sees their customers. As if where someone sits matters.
-Dave
 
wjcandee
Posts: 6142
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:34 am

Mir wrote:

Unfortunately, the gate agents and flight attendants don't have time to ask the whole plane if there are people who don't care where they sit so that they can play musical chairs.


Then, absent an emergency, they shouldn't have moved her.

Why is it so hard to understand that there is something effectively fraudulent, or at least misleading, about setting up a whole marketing strategy and computer infrastructure around allowing passengers to choose and pay extra for certain seats, and then blithely to take it away and not feel even compelled to explain the need for it, because "they don't have time". Screw that. If you don't have time to do it consistent with the best standards of customer service, then don't freaking do it.

And your argument about lack of time is in any event a little frayed, my friend. (And I mean that. I value your posts and opinions. Have for years. But here we disagree.) All it takes is a PA announcement that we have a family of 3 who would like to sit together, does anybody mind making it possible for them to do that? If I still get an aisle, I may be willing to move, as would a lot of people. (But if I paid for an exit row, I might not.) That takes less time than involuntarily revoking a person's license to a seat that she's already in.

I think there's a chance we will find that these folks didn't pay for an exit row, and that they might even be somebody's relatives, and maybe even pass riders, as they were getting on at the end. Maybe not, but maybe. Which may be why the airline went on offense rather than just being transparent.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2938
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Delta Finally Getting Some Negative Coverage

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:40 am

michman wrote:
When I heard she had an extra room seat, I assumed she was already in Comfort+. So now I see it was really just an exit row seat.


I'm not sure if this is true on all aircraft, but typically on the DL aircraft I've flown, EC+ encompasses the exit rows with extra legroom. I assume this was an A320, which shows row 15 as both an exit row and an EC+ row.

I'm no fan whatsoever of Ann Coulter and she did not handle this situation correctly, but I can't see how she's not in the right to start with. As a 6'4" guy, I would have been pissed too if I was forced to move to a window seat. There's a reason we tall people book (and pay for) seats like this in advance, and that's because it's *supposed* to reserve that seat for us. It all reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/4T2GmGSNvaM?t=38s

They should have put the other woman at the window. I mean unless they both somehow booked the same seat, in which case that's a difficult situation, but you basically then flip a coin for it and give the loser a full voucher for another flight. Not a $30 refund; that's an absolute insult. And I've seen no indication that some sort of weird double booking is even what happened here.

There really needs to be a complete culture shift at basically all US airlines regarding customer service. It has gotten out of control at this point. And the apologists need to realize they're part of the problem. This is just really bad customer service, there is no other way to put it. It doesn't matter who she is.
Last edited by spacecadet on Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
blrsea
Posts: 1612
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 2:22 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:55 am

If the airline takes away the seat you paid for, then they should automatically refund the amount back on your credit card. It shouldn't be done only for those who complain. That's fraud by the airline.

Also, in this case, the people the seats were given to are adults. Not sure why they got priority over someone who had paid and selected their seat. And they didn't even move her to an aisle seat.

Regardless of Ann Coulter's popularity or not, the basic issue is that airlines feel they have a right to take away your seat and not offer you any compensation, let alone a refund unless you make a big issue out of it.

I think the arguments regarding Ann Coulter's behavior can be taken to non-aviation forum if required. however, the high-handedness of the airlines needs to be addressed.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2938
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:23 am

I just read Delta's statement on this, on their own web site. First of all, it's absolutely bizarre. Keep in mind this is Delta *themselves* talking:

Delta issued the following statement in response to Coulter’s insults:

"We are sorry that the customer did not receive the seat she reserved and paid for. More importantly, we are disappointed that the customer has chosen to publicly attack our employees and other customers by posting derogatory and slanderous comments and photos in social media. Her actions are unnecessary and unacceptable.

Each of our employees is charged with treating each other as well as our customers with dignity and respect. And we hold each other accountable when that does not happen.

Delta expects mutual civility throughout the entire travel experience.

We will refund Ms. Coulter's $30 for the preferred seat on the exit row that she purchased."

The airline said that Coulter originally booked seat 15F, which is located by the window in an exit row, however; within 24 hours of the flight’s departure, the customer changed to seat 15D, which is by the aisle. At the time of boarding, Delta inadvertently moved Coulter to 15A, a window seat, when working to accommodate several passengers with seating requests.


Why does it read as if a third party news outlet wrote it? Why are they quoting themselves? This isn't standard press release style, and it really should be a little more personal than that anyway. This is almost beyond cold and detached and into the realm of weird.

Beyond that, they admit that it was their mistake. Again, they admit it, while seemingly trying to deflect some of the blame onto her for changing her seat assignment herself 24 hours in advance. I have no idea what that should have to do with anything. Are their computers not fast enough to keep up with 24 hours notice? I don't know why this is even in the press release. That seems like the kind of personal detail that Delta is complaining about in her tweets. Are they trying to shame her somehow for changing seats? Are they trying to say she shouldn't have cared about a window seat because that's what she booked initially? None of this matters.

All that matters is that Coulter's seat assignment at the time of check-in was 15D, and she was "inadvertently" moved to seat 15A by Delta. That's Delta's fault and they need to take responsibility for it. Everything else that happened afterwards is noise that wouldn't have happened but for Delta's error. And maybe if they'd fixed it sooner, it wouldn't have happened at all.

That said, Coulter should apologize too. But Delta needs to take the initiative and *fix this*.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta Finally Getting Some Negative Coverage

Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:40 am

jetero wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
jetero wrote:

Either cheap or extremely bad with money.


So flying coach = bad with money? Not seeing that connection. :scratchchin:


With that many book deals and even being a B-list media celebrity, in this day and age I'm sure she makes plenty to purchase a discount F seat (often just $100-$200 more). If she doesn't, she's p*ssing it away on God knows what.


You do realize most writers, including multiple published ones, still have a day job as well as writing. They really don't make as much as you think. She makes more standing in front of a crowd of worshippers, spewing crap ail they sucking in everything she claims. But thats all politicians, elected or not.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta Finally Getting Some Negative Coverage

Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:49 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Indy wrote:
Is she upset that a woman got her seat or that an attractive woman got her seat? She is just mad that she had to gate check her broom.


She was mad that they took the premium economy seat she had paid extra for to a short woman who doesn't need the leg room. BTW Ann Coulter is 6 feet (183 cm) tall. I don't Blame her for being upset.


She got another seat in the same cabin with the same crappy Y+ seat thats just a few extra inches and the same number of seats across. She just did not want a window seat. So no she received a seat in the same fake premium economy concept they use to get you to pay more. She was not that inconvenienced. It would have cost her the same price for either seat.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta Finally Getting Some Negative Coverage

Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:59 am

ual763 wrote:
burnsie28 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

She was mad that they took the premium economy seat she had paid extra for to a short woman who doesn't need the leg room. BTW Ann Coulter is 6 feet (183 cm) tall. I don't Blame her for being upset.


It was posted in another site that she put in for an upgrade, got the upgrade but it was a middle seat, and decided to take her original seat, which at that point had been given away.


While none of us know the true story, we do know, as confirmed by Delta, that they moved her to a new seat in the same row as her reserved seat. Same row = Same class. So based on that, we can conclude that she did not take an upgrade.


If she had taken an upgrade it would have prevented her from using it for another 10 mins of fame.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:04 am

airzona11 wrote:
jetero wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
I think she has a legitimate complaint, like probably a bunch of other people who couldn't get the kind of publicity that she will for it.


Yet how many posts are we into this without knowing what actually happened? At the end of the day it sounds like she may have been made to move to another seat in the same row. That led to a Tweetstorm about being Delta the worst airline in the world, and her forcefully taking a photo of people who look sure as hell to me didn't want their photos taken.

So she lost her seat assignment (seems to be confirmed). What's not confirmed is if it were a "downgrade" (either to another seat in the same class, but not preferred (aisle-to-window if she preferred aisle, or to another class). Surely people aren't defending her reaction?

If her reaction isn't a perfect example of a "snowflake," I don't know what is.


But what if she did pay for it? What if it was a downgrade? Surely people wouldn't be defending Delta?
Twitter provides an instantaneous outlet and feedback loop. It is not a crime or distasteful to express your anger towards a product or service that you purchased that didn't meet expectation. Maybe you wouldn't do it and complain, fine. But, if you follow the process that the airline tells you, to preselect a seat you want, and then you get there and you get moved... well DL (or any airline) why did you do that?


But it is distasteful to photo the other passengers to try and shame them. Thats not what expressing your anger at the airline is. Also would she have photoed them if they had been white. She has been very vocal of foereigners.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:11 am

ooslc wrote:
I just have one thing to say. Her two pictures don't agree with each other. If she took the first picture from her original seat it was a window on the left side of the plane. She then took a picture of the woman who took her seat, on the right side of the plane in an aisle. Things that make you go hmmm.....


Right side facing the pointy end or right side facing the rear. Might be goo to use the old "official terms or "port" to "starboard". After all it is an aviation site and sac term is designed so there is no confusion. :)
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:43 am

rbavfan wrote:
ooslc wrote:
I just have one thing to say. Her two pictures don't agree with each other. If she took the first picture from her original seat it was a window on the left side of the plane. She then took a picture of the woman who took her seat, on the right side of the plane in an aisle. Things that make you go hmmm.....


Right side facing the pointy end or right side facing the rear. Might be goo to use the old "official terms or "port" to "starboard". After all it is an aviation site and sac term is designed so there is no confusion. :)


DL already confirmed that she was in 15D and got moved to 15A, so the woman was in 15D in the pic and Ann was in 15A taking a picture of the FA.
-Dave
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 7185
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:57 am

spacecadet wrote:
I just read Delta's statement on this, on their own web site. First of all, it's absolutely bizarre. Keep in mind this is Delta *themselves* talking:

Delta issued the following statement in response to Coulter’s insults:

"We are sorry that the customer did not receive the seat she reserved and paid for. More importantly, we are disappointed that the customer has chosen to publicly attack our employees and other customers by posting derogatory and slanderous comments and photos in social media. Her actions are unnecessary and unacceptable.

Each of our employees is charged with treating each other as well as our customers with dignity and respect. And we hold each other accountable when that does not happen.

Delta expects mutual civility throughout the entire travel experience.

We will refund Ms. Coulter's $30 for the preferred seat on the exit row that she purchased."

The airline said that Coulter originally booked seat 15F, which is located by the window in an exit row, however; within 24 hours of the flight’s departure, the customer changed to seat 15D, which is by the aisle. At the time of boarding, Delta inadvertently moved Coulter to 15A, a window seat, when working to accommodate several passengers with seating requests.


Why does it read as if a third party news outlet wrote it? Why are they quoting themselves? This isn't standard press release style, and it really should be a little more personal than that anyway. This is almost beyond cold and detached and into the realm of weird.


This was a news story. The parts in quotations were Delta's statement, but the rest of it was the news writer's words.
-Dave
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 5666
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:42 am

The simple point is: Airlines sell the booking of certain seats. The passenger pays for it. Giving the customer than a different seat, is a nice little scam, taking money for something you are not prepared to provide. It does not really matter if it is the same class, if you get aisle instead of window or vice versa, or or giving you a seat with less foot space, the airline does not provide, what it sold. Not giving a refund, unless the passenger protests, is part of this scam.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 6142
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:00 am

The DL statement is indeed bizarre. They said that they "inadvertently" moved her to 15A. They didn't do anything "inadvertently". They got on the plane and made her move out of the seat that she was in. And then got indignant when she said publicly that they were wrong to do so.

Again, I think we're gonna find that the "passengers with seating requests" were airline employees or their friends or relatives, and the gate agent highhandedly moved Coulter thinking "too bad, so sad" like he/she had done many times before, not realizing that she would push back. Those photos of passengers, that everyone is complaining about, make crystal clear that the airline had no compelling reason to move her. (As does the new assertion that moving her was "inadvertent".)
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 4625
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

Ms.Coulter accidentally selected port side seat and DL was trying to help by moving her to the starboard side.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 15860
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:51 am

spacecadet wrote:
I just read Delta's statement on this, on their own web site. First of all, it's absolutely bizarre. Keep in mind this is Delta *themselves* talking:

Delta issued the following statement in response to Coulter’s insults:

"We are sorry that the customer did not receive the seat she reserved and paid for. More importantly, we are disappointed that the customer has chosen to publicly attack our employees and other customers by posting derogatory and slanderous comments and photos in social media. Her actions are unnecessary and unacceptable.

Each of our employees is charged with treating each other as well as our customers with dignity and respect. And we hold each other accountable when that does not happen.

Delta expects mutual civility throughout the entire travel experience.

We will refund Ms. Coulter's $30 for the preferred seat on the exit row that she purchased."

The airline said that Coulter originally booked seat 15F, which is located by the window in an exit row, however; within 24 hours of the flight’s departure, the customer changed to seat 15D, which is by the aisle. At the time of boarding, Delta inadvertently moved Coulter to 15A, a window seat, when working to accommodate several passengers with seating requests.


Why does it read as if a third party news outlet wrote it? Why are they quoting themselves? This isn't standard press release style, and it really should be a little more personal than that anyway. This is almost beyond cold and detached and into the realm of weird.

Beyond that, they admit that it was their mistake. Again, they admit it, while seemingly trying to deflect some of the blame onto her for changing her seat assignment herself 24 hours in advance. I have no idea what that should have to do with anything. Are their computers not fast enough to keep up with 24 hours notice? I don't know why this is even in the press release. That seems like the kind of personal detail that Delta is complaining about in her tweets. Are they trying to shame her somehow for changing seats? Are they trying to say she shouldn't have cared about a window seat because that's what she booked initially? None of this matters.

All that matters is that Coulter's seat assignment at the time of check-in was 15D, and she was "inadvertently" moved to seat 15A by Delta. That's Delta's fault and they need to take responsibility for it. Everything else that happened afterwards is noise that wouldn't have happened but for Delta's error. And maybe if they'd fixed it sooner, it wouldn't have happened at all.

That said, Coulter should apologize too. But Delta needs to take the initiative and *fix this*.


You nailed it by calling the statement bizarre. Very preachy and high-handed. "Her actions are unnecessary and unacceptable" -- as if they get to be the judge of what is acceptable or not. If it were me, I would say her actions are disappointing and/or regrettable and leave it at that. Instead they double down and continue to moralize -- "Delta expects mutual civility throughout the entire travel experience" which translates to "we can do whatever we want to you and we expect you to accept it without complaint" -- ugh!
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
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Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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michman
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:59 am

rbavfan wrote:

But it is distasteful to photo the other passengers to try and shame them. Thats not what expressing your anger at the airline is. Also would she have photoed them if they had been white. She has been very vocal of foereigners.


The other passengers sure look white to me. What photo of passengers are you talking about??
 
xdlx
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:29 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:12 pm

What a joke? I guess the weekend help tried to put out the storm, before the Legal Team arrived on Monday.

Folks you buy a seat ( ultimately any seat ) in a "UTILITARIAN SERVICE from: A to B"..... I assume this was the ATLJNB sector where she "HAD to HAVE" that seat... get a life!
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 4625
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm

ual763 wrote:


The airline does care, but shouldn't when the person in question decides to act like an animal in return. She acted like an entitled brat, which goes in line with her Commander-in-Chief. In all truthfulness, if someone asked her kindly to switch across the aisle to the exact same type of seat, there should be no question. There was no difference at all between the two seats, and most humble people would have just done it because we are kind. But people like her get off on the attention that something like this would garner.

Unless you can show me, where on a DL aircraft a W seat is lined with gold or provides healing powers, the same seat across the aisle is the same thing

It wasn't the "same" seat as you put it. You and I both know there is a huge difference between a window, middle, and aisle seat. And no, I probably wouldn't have done it, if there was no apparent need for it (e.g. the girl was grown up, or disabled, etc.). There's a reason you can choose your seat. Apparently, in your view, and what you described of your company's view, is that makes me a bad person and that I am wrong. And there was absolutely no need to bring your view of our President into this.


You are making a pre-ancillary fee era argument which is irrelevant. As soon as airline takes a dollar as an ancillary fee, the passenger is entitled. If there is a valid reason, explain to the passenger. I bet even FA had no idea who and why the seat assignment was changed.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:00 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
You are making a pre-ancillary fee era argument which is irrelevant. As soon as airline takes a dollar as an ancillary fee, the passenger is entitled. If there is a valid reason, explain to the passenger. I bet even FA had no idea who and why the seat assignment was changed.


Not really, since it's not covered by the CoC which I quote

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Delta's CoC makes no assertions that any passenger are guaranteed their reserved seat assignment.

Delta will exercise reasonable efforts to carry passengers and their baggage according to Delta’s published schedules and the schedule reflected on the passenger’s ticket, but published schedules, flight times, aircraft type, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in
the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract. Delta may substitute alternate carriers or aircraft, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket at any time. Schedules are subject to change without notice. Except as stated in this rule, Delta will have no liability for making connections, failing to operate any flight according to schedule, changing the schedule for any flight, changing seat assignments or aircraft types, or revising the routings by which Delta carries the passenger from the ticketed origin to destination.


And I'm not surprised the FA had no idea as to why Coulter's seat assignment was changed - from what I can tell it wasn't her who did the change, but the gate agent.

This is why, rather than screaming that "X Air Line sucks!" or "Y Airways is shit!" it would be wiser to get educated on the intricacies of flying commercial so that you can cover your bases when the airlines tries to pull one on you.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 4625
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta moves seat of Ann Coulter

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:12 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Not really, since it's not covered by the CoC which I quote.


If you take money to provide a specific service there is a contract. In this case, money is for specific seat assignment.

CoC has no legal standing, it is just a dynamic/living feel good self-serving prophecy. Even SCOTUS cannot rule if corporate attorneys are updating CoC every Monday.
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