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787fan8
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Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:09 am

To those who post in this forum, please keep in mind that this is a discussion about ATL air service, NOT DTW, so please respect one another, and do not make this a "DL hates DTW" thread. Anyways, AF just opened bookings for their new seasonal ATL-PTP service. Per routesonline.com, it looks like will operate twice a week with an A320 starting Nov 21, 2017.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
Rosie7
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:52 am

Will the crew base only be ATL? Also, where will the crew training be held? Thank you...
 
Rosie7
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:27 am

Will the crew base only be ATL? Also, where will the crew training be held? Thank you...
 
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:35 am

Rosie7 wrote:
Will the crew base only be ATL? Also, where will the crew training be held? Thank you...

Unfortunately, I do not have exact details regarding the crew bases and training for the new flight
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
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deltadawg
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:23 am

Interesting! I knew this was coming but twice per week? Makes me wonder what they will do with the aircraft on the idle days? Could the aircraft be used on other ???-PTP routes on non ATL days? Say CLT-PTP, MDW-PTP?

Does anyone know if any other airlines may be planning on routes from ATL to international destinations?
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 am

I don't know any facts on this, but it seems to me (going off of guts) that CAN-ATL on either DL or CZ could work
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:22 am

deltadawg wrote:
Interesting! I knew this was coming but twice per week? Makes me wonder what they will do with the aircraft on the idle days? Could the aircraft be used on other ???-PTP routes on non ATL days? Say CLT-PTP, MDW-PTP?

Does anyone know if any other airlines may be planning on routes from ATL to international destinations?


It overnights in Miami the other five days. Air France has based narrowbodies in the Caribbean since the 1960s, Atlanta is simply being added to its Caribbean network. There are two A320s based in Pointe Pitre operating throughout the French Caribbean and Miami.

I give this experiment to Atlanta maybe six months at best. It won't last. There's no market.
a.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:37 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Interesting! I knew this was coming but twice per week? Makes me wonder what they will do with the aircraft on the idle days? Could the aircraft be used on other ???-PTP routes on non ATL days? Say CLT-PTP, MDW-PTP?

Does anyone know if any other airlines may be planning on routes from ATL to international destinations?

I still believe that EK is a contender to launch service to ATL. However, I believe QR and TK's presence in ATL have prevented them from immediately jumping right onto it. I do think they will come eventually, but today is not that day.
Another contender would probably be DY. Considering they've been expanding rapidly in the US, they could continue their streak and add ATL-LGW service with the 787.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
jplatts
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:28 pm

Will Southwest add nonstop service from ATL to OMA? Southwest has recently expanded from OMA with the addition of nonstop service from OMA to DAL, HOU, LAX, and DCA. In addition, OMA is one of the largest markets out of ATL that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from ATL and ATL is one of the largest markets from OMA that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from OMA. There are approximately 200,000 passengers per year who fly between OMA and ATL, and there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA since Delta is currently the only airline to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, since Southwest is the dominant carrier at OMA, and since Southwest has more than double the market share that Delta has at OMA. Southwest could also provide connections to JAX, RSW, TPA, and FLL from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service from OMA to ATL.
 
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flymco753
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:11 pm

I think in the next 5 years FI will be going to ATL, DY has no plans of it and WW doesn't have the aircraft to do it ATM, so I think FI would be in store for ATL. It's hard to get other carriers into ATL because of DL's firm grip on ATL.
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:58 pm

In addition to new air service, the first steel truss for the canopy project has been delivered according to ATL's Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/ATLairport/pho ... =3&theater
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will Southwest add nonstop service from ATL to OMA? Southwest has recently expanded from OMA with the addition of nonstop service from OMA to DAL, HOU, LAX, and DCA. In addition, OMA is one of the largest markets out of ATL that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from ATL and ATL is one of the largest markets from OMA that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from OMA. There are approximately 200,000 passengers per year who fly between OMA and ATL, and there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA since Delta is currently the only airline to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, since Southwest is the dominant carrier at OMA, and since Southwest has more than double the market share that Delta has at OMA. Southwest could also provide connections to JAX, RSW, TPA, and FLL from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service from OMA to ATL.


200,000 enplaned (550 per day, all on DL)

of which

50,000 are O&D (135 per day)

So, jplatts, please help me with your thinking:

135 existing O&D

times what stimulation factor (assuming fares decrease)

equals

how many O&D passengers

of which

Delta gets ?%

Southwest gets ?%

and

Delta's connecting percentage is ?%

Southwest's connecting percentage is ?%

yields

? onboard for Delta

? onboard for Southwest

How do you fill up your Southwest 737 with any reasonable assumptions?
 
jbs2886
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:11 pm

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Will Southwest add nonstop service from ATL to OMA? Southwest has recently expanded from OMA with the addition of nonstop service from OMA to DAL, HOU, LAX, and DCA. In addition, OMA is one of the largest markets out of ATL that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from ATL and ATL is one of the largest markets from OMA that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from OMA. There are approximately 200,000 passengers per year who fly between OMA and ATL, and there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA since Delta is currently the only airline to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, since Southwest is the dominant carrier at OMA, and since Southwest has more than double the market share that Delta has at OMA. Southwest could also provide connections to JAX, RSW, TPA, and FLL from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service from OMA to ATL.


200,000 enplaned (550 per day, all on DL)

of which

50,000 are O&D (135 per day)

So, jplatts, please help me with your thinking:

135 existing O&D

times what stimulation factor (assuming fares decrease)

equals

how many O&D passengers

of which

Delta gets ?%

Southwest gets ?%

and

Delta's connecting percentage is ?%

Southwest's connecting percentage is ?%

yields

? onboard for Delta

? onboard for Southwest

How do you fill up your Southwest 737 with any reasonable assumptions?


He just throws out so many "will they add X to Y" its beyond annoying.
 
jplatts
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:50 pm

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Will Southwest add nonstop service from ATL to OMA? Southwest has recently expanded from OMA with the addition of nonstop service from OMA to DAL, HOU, LAX, and DCA. In addition, OMA is one of the largest markets out of ATL that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from ATL and ATL is one of the largest markets from OMA that Southwest does not fly to nonstop from OMA. There are approximately 200,000 passengers per year who fly between OMA and ATL, and there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA since Delta is currently the only airline to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, since Southwest is the dominant carrier at OMA, and since Southwest has more than double the market share that Delta has at OMA. Southwest could also provide connections to JAX, RSW, TPA, and FLL from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service from OMA to ATL.


200,000 enplaned (550 per day, all on DL)
of which
50,000 are O&D (135 per day)


The only places where connections to Florida can be easily made from OMA on Southwest are MDW and STL, and Southwest would be carrying passengers who are connecting between Omaha and Florida on OMA-ATL flights if it added nonstop flights between OMA and ATL. In addition, OMA is the largest city in the Midwest that does not have any nonstop service to TPA or FLL. Is Southwest better off adding nonstop service to TPA and FLL from OMA, or could Southwest add OMA-ATL nonstop service in order to provide easier access to Florida destinations that are not served nonstop from OMA?

Demand for OMA-ATL flights has significantly increased from 87,000 passengers a year in 2010, to 131,000 passengers a year in 2011, and to 200,000 passengers a year in 2016. If there is a further increase in demand for OMA-ATL flights, there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, especially since Southwest can provide connections to Florida from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service to ATL form OMA.

Southwest actually does do nonstop flights from ATL to GSP and RIC for connecting traffic to other destinations through ATL, even though RIC is far enough from ATL that the Southwest ATL-RIC nonstops are used for nonstop travel between ATL and RIC.
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:11 pm

jplatts wrote:
The only places where connections to Florida can be easily made from OMA on Southwest are MDW and STL


Only, eh? Well, those are pretty easy places for Southwest to connect.

jplatts wrote:
In addition, OMA is the largest city in the Midwest that does not have any nonstop service to TPA or FLL.


So?

jplatts wrote:
Is Southwest better off adding nonstop service to TPA and FLL from OMA, or could Southwest add OMA-ATL nonstop service in order to provide easier access to Florida destinations that are not served nonstop from OMA?


You tell me. Run the numbers.

jplatts wrote:
Demand for OMA-ATL flights has significantly increased from 87,000 passengers a year in 2010, to 131,000 passengers a year in 2011, and to 200,000 passengers a year in 2016.


That is NOT demand for OMA-ATL flights. 25% of that may be OMA-ATL demand--the rest is to whatever destinations are connecting over ATL to fill seats. With the upgauging, there are more seats to fill, so DL is selling more connecting itineraries.

jplatts wrote:
If there is a further increase in demand for OMA-ATL flights, there might be enough demand for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA, especially since Southwest can provide connections to Florida from OMA through ATL if it added nonstop service to ATL form OMA.


Run the numbers--I gave you a template above.

jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually does do nonstop flights from ATL to GSP and RIC for connecting traffic to other destinations through ATL, even though RIC is far enough from ATL that the Southwest ATL-RIC nonstops are used for nonstop travel between ATL and RIC.


What's your point?
 
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:18 pm

BTW jplatts if you're interested in growth in REAL OMA-ATL demand, here it is:

PPDEW by year, all airlines (includes those flying nonstop as well as those connecting, e.g., on UA OMA-ORD-ATL):

2010: 108

2011: 106

2012: 119

2013: 122

2014: 124

2015: 128

2016: 136

Not exactly a growth market. That's not to say it can't be stimulated with lower fares, but I don't think OMA-ATL is one of those markets that has pent-up demand by a factor of 2 of more.
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:19 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
He just throws out so many "will they add X to Y" its beyond annoying.


Yep, and not much interested in engaging substantively, so I don't know why he goes to the trouble.
 
jplatts
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 pm

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually does do nonstop flights from ATL to GSP and RIC for connecting traffic to other destinations through ATL, even though RIC is far enough from ATL that the Southwest ATL-RIC nonstops are used for nonstop travel between ATL and RIC.

What's your point?


The point that I was trying to make is that Southwest does still sell connecting itineraries through ATL, even though Delta has its main hub and home base at ATL and even though almost all of the connections that can be made through ATL on Southwest can be made through ATL on Delta.
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:38 pm

jplatts wrote:
jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually does do nonstop flights from ATL to GSP and RIC for connecting traffic to other destinations through ATL, even though RIC is far enough from ATL that the Southwest ATL-RIC nonstops are used for nonstop travel between ATL and RIC.

What's your point?


The point that I was trying to make is that Southwest does still sell connecting itineraries through ATL, even though Delta has its main hub and home base at ATL and even though almost all of the connections that can be made through ATL on Southwest can be made through ATL on Delta.


Yeah, I get that.

It's about 1/3 connecting.

So let's work at it backwards.

143 seats in a 73G

Times load factor of what? 80%?

114 onboard

Of which 1/3, or 38, are connecting

Leaving 76 O&D

The pie today is 135 passengers. Mind you--that includes passengers flying ATL-OMA nonstop (admittedly most of the number) and connecting over other hubs. But let's just say 135 of those are flying nonstop.

If that pie doesn't grow, WN would have to get more than 50% overnight, and it would mean DL gave away 50% of the market without a fight.

But let's say they stimulate the market with low fares. What do you think they can do? Grow by 50%? 25%? How much pent-up demand do you think there is ATL-OMA?

Let's say 50% on the high end. So the pie is now 200 give or take. WN gets 76, or slightly more than a third. Overnight. With a single daily flight.

DL carries 10 fewer than it did this year--in other words, it cedes almost 10% of the market, while letting fares drop.

Do you think that scenario is realistic?
 
jplatts
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:41 pm

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
jetero wrote:

What's your point?


The point that I was trying to make is that Southwest does still sell connecting itineraries through ATL, even though Delta has its main hub and home base at ATL and even though almost all of the connections that can be made through ATL on Southwest can be made through ATL on Delta.


Yeah, I get that.

It's about 1/3 connecting.

So let's work at it backwards.

143 seats in a 73G

Times load factor of what? 80%?

114 onboard

Of which 1/3, or 38, are connecting

Leaving 76 O&D

The pie today is 135 passengers. Mind you--that includes passengers flying ATL-OMA nonstop (admittedly most of the number) and connecting over other hubs. But let's just say 135 of those are flying nonstop.

If that pie doesn't grow, WN would have to get more than 50% overnight, and it would mean DL gave away 50% of the market without a fight.

But let's say they stimulate the market with low fares. What do you think they can do? Grow by 50%? 25%? How much pent-up demand do you think there is ATL-OMA?

Let's say 50% on the high end. So the pie is now 200 give or take. WN gets 76, or slightly more than a third. Overnight. With a single daily flight.

DL carries 10 fewer than it did this year--in other words, it cedes almost 10% of the market, while letting fares drop.

Do you think that scenario is realistic?


It appears that it might not be realistic for Southwest to add ATL-OMA nonstop service, even though OMA is one of the largest domestic markets out of ATL that only has nonstop service from ATL on Delta. Most of the markets from ATL that are larger than OMA-ATL market do have nonstop service out of ATL on airlines other than Delta, and it appears that most of the markets that see enough demand for Southwest service out of ATL are already served nonstop on Southwest out of ATL.
 
NichCage
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but there is something I actually wonder. With Korean Air being the only Asian airline at ATL, what makes them fly there and what market do they serve?
 
jplatts
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:48 pm

NichCage wrote:
Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but there is something I actually wonder. With Korean Air being the only Asian airline at ATL, what makes them fly there and what market do they serve?


Korean Air is in the SkyTeam Alliance along with Delta Air Lines and Korean Air does have a codeshare agreement with Delta Air Lines. Korean Air can provide connections to destinations in the Southeastern U.S. and along the East Coast through Delta's ATL hub and Korean Air's codeshare agreement with Delta Air Lines. In addition, Korean Air does provide connecting access to destinations in China, Taiwan, Japan, and Southeast Asia from ATL through its ICN hub.
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:04 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
I don't know any facts on this, but it seems to me (going off of guts) that CAN-ATL on either DL or CZ could work


Because CZ is in SkyTeam?
 
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diverdave
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:27 pm

Nice thread!

Has anybody heard an outcome for JetBlue and their quest for concourse E gates? I looked last week and it looked like they were running most flights through D with one late in the day flight out of E.
 
globalflyer
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:44 pm

B6 uses E32 for their R.O.N. and first departure. D3 a CUTE gate is used for the other flights. AS uses D3 for its 3 daily flights as well. No word on E though. It gets really packed on D with F9, AS, B6 and NK operating all of their flights from only 6 gates. B6 wants to add FLL, MCO and JFK, but there is no room on the CUTE gates on D.
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diverdave
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:53 pm

globalflyer wrote:
B6 uses E32 for their R.O.N. and first departure. D3 a CUTE gate is used for the other flights. AS uses D3 for its 3 daily flights as well. No word on E though. It gets really packed on D with F9, AS, B6 and NK operating all of their flights from only 6 gates. B6 wants to add FLL, MCO and JFK, but there is no room on the CUTE gates on D.


Thank you for the update!

David
 
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:58 pm

Looks like Delta will suspend ATL-CCS effective September 17, 2017. The newsletter is in Spanish, but it pretty much confirms the suspension.
https://twitter.com/pvasquezv/status/890309511499706370
I'm sure we all saw this coming.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
Flyingstump
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:32 pm

jplatts wrote:

The only places where connections to Florida can be easily made from OMA on Southwest are MDW and STL, and Southwest would be carrying passengers who are connecting between Omaha and Florida on OMA-ATL flights if it added nonstop flights between OMA and ATL. In addition, OMA is the largest city in the Midwest that does not have any nonstop service to TPA or FLL. Is Southwest better off adding nonstop service to TPA and FLL from OMA, or could Southwest add OMA-ATL nonstop service in order to provide easier access to Florida destinations that are not served nonstop from OMA?



Although TPA does not have a nonstop to OMA, the Tampa Bay area does have direct flights to Omaha on Allegiant via PIE, and those run 2x weekly. Although Allegiant the vast majority of Allegiant's routes are less than daily, they do run a few daily routes from PIE, and if OMA could support it, I don't think they would hesitate to go daily. As much as I would love to see a new destination added to TPA such as OMA, I'm not sure Southwest could fill a 737 daily to OMA from TPA at the moment...but I could definitely be wrong.

I think Republic used to fly OMA to PIE nonstop daily as well a few years ago, but that didn't last long.
 
globalcabotage
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:42 am

787fan8 wrote:
To those who post in this forum, please keep in mind that this is a discussion about ATL air service, NOT DTW, so please respect one another, and do not make this a "DL hates DTW" thread. Anyways, AF just opened bookings for their new seasonal ATL-PTP service. Per routesonline.com, it looks like will operate twice a week with an A320 starting Nov 21, 2017.


Good luck with that and the DTW fan club! ATL deserves its own thread! Looking forward to reading comments here, just don't turn this into a DTW thread where "I don't see why ATL-MLE 3x a week is not realistic."
 
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deltadawg
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:52 am

Just saw this.......
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/7/25/16 ... llege-park
BMW to build a technical training facility near ATL that would be connected to ATL via the SKYTrain. Interesting since Porsche has their US Headquarters basically on the opposite side of the airport. This facility is supposed to be next to the convention center. Says that 10k BMW folks would be trained there each year which more than likely will mean 8-9k more passengers coming thru ATL if you figure some will drive.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:12 am

deltadawg wrote:
Just saw this.......
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/7/25/16 ... llege-park
BMW to build a technical training facility near ATL that would be connected to ATL via the SKYTrain. Interesting since Porsche has their US Headquarters basically on the opposite side of the airport. This facility is supposed to be next to the convention center. Says that 10k BMW folks would be trained there each year which more than likely will mean 8-9k more passengers coming thru ATL if you figure some will drive.

This is great news for both the airport and the College Park area!
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
Deltran757
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:47 am

Hopefully I can contribute to his thread as I currently work at the airport. But There has a been a lot of constructions going on at the airport. I can't wait until all concourse are finish with their new interior look. More windows with natural lighting is always the best way to go. I love the look of T Concourse. Currently A and C along with T are getting bigger windows and new ceilings installed.
To see the world... One plane at a time
 
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787fan8
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:48 pm

Deltran757 wrote:
Hopefully I can contribute to his thread as I currently work at the airport. But There has a been a lot of constructions going on at the airport. I can't wait until all concourse are finish with their new interior look. More windows with natural lighting is always the best way to go. I love the look of T Concourse. Currently A and C along with T are getting bigger windows and new ceilings installed.

Would you happen to have any idea when they will break ground on the proposed Intercontinental hotel near the domestic terminal?
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
Sightseer
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:14 pm

NichCage wrote:
Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but there is something I actually wonder. With Korean Air being the only Asian airline at ATL, what makes them fly there and what market do they serve?


ICN is actually the largest international O&D market from ATL. Other people can give more specifics as to why and how the market developed, but today there is a large manufacturing presence in Georgia among Korean firms, and Atlanta hosts both the Korean consul for the Southeast and the regional HQ for the Korean Chamber of Commerce.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:32 pm

Have any other Atlantans notice all the Germany investment in the city recently near the new Mercedes Stadium. I wonder if Lufty introduces something new from ATL?
 
bravoindia
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:15 pm

Would love to see DLH expand / add, anything more at ATL
Jet-A, coffee, headset.
 
wenders825
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:27 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Just saw this.......
https://atlanta.curbed.com/2017/7/25/16 ... llege-park
BMW to build a technical training facility near ATL that would be connected to ATL via the SKYTrain. Interesting since Porsche has their US Headquarters basically on the opposite side of the airport. This facility is supposed to be next to the convention center. Says that 10k BMW folks would be trained there each year which more than likely will mean 8-9k more passengers coming thru ATL if you figure some will drive.

watch as LH starts MUC-ATL to compete with DL's service
 
jetero
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:34 pm

Sightseer wrote:
ICN is actually the largest international O&D market from ATL.


You sure about that?

There were approx ~250 enplaned passengers per day from ATL to ICN in 2016, many of which were connecting.

There were ~350 O&D passengers per day from ATL to CUN.

ICN may be top 5 but certainly not the busiest.
 
rojotortuga
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:53 pm

With Porsche and Mercedes having their north american headquarters here and BMW having a major Training facility here, I'm guessin we will see 1 or 2 more frequencies going in and out of Germany. (Maybe Berlin)
 
AST1Driver
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:34 pm

Lots of construction going on right now at ATL. The concourses are being updated with new windows and the orange facade panels are being removed, taxiway echo is being replaced with new concrete, and the new terminal canopies are being installed. Also the year long A380 project at F3 is nearing completion. The airport has put out a website to keep up all of the current and future projects.

http://next.atl.com/
 
jetero
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:40 pm

rojotortuga wrote:
With Porsche and Mercedes having their north american headquarters here and BMW having a major Training facility here, I'm guessin we will see 1 or 2 more frequencies going in and out of Germany. (Maybe Berlin)


What's in Berlin?
 
Sightseer
Posts: 793
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:45 pm

jetero wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
ICN is actually the largest international O&D market from ATL.


You sure about that?

There were approx ~250 enplaned passengers per day from ATL to ICN in 2016, many of which were connecting.

There were ~350 O&D passengers per day from ATL to CUN.

ICN may be top 5 but certainly not the busiest.


Granted, I was not considering short-haul and should've made that distinction in my post, but I find the ICN enplanements surprising considering that KE flew a >400-seat A380 for much of the year, and the fact that ATL-ICN in 2011 had over 250 PDEW.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:04 pm

It's always a great time to plane spot at Hartsfield Jackson. I remember we were on a date on May 29th 2017 and we went to the top floor of the lot in front of the quick drop off/ pick up lanes. It's nice to see planes up close while they're taking off. But does anyone agree that aviation is not the same without the ionic 747 and other special aircraft? Sure there are a few cargo 747's but that doesn't mean nothing. But I'll give you a list of some of the aircrafts I saw that day. It doesn't seem too interesting but you can be the judge of that.

Delta:

A320
A321
A330-300
MD-88
MD-90
737-800
737-900ER

Frontier:
A320

Southwest:
737-700
737-800

Spirit:
A320

JetBlue:
A320

United:
A320
737-800

Virgin Atlantic:
A330-300

Turkish Airways:
A330-300

It might not seem alot. And I know times are changing. But in my opinion seeing a heck load of narrowbodies are starting to get a bit old don't you think? It doesn't mean I'm never gonna come back. But I just wish something special would happen. Not to be annoying or anything, but times changing. And it sucks to see change.
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
KATL2
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:33 pm

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:15 pm

NichCage wrote:
Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but there is something I actually wonder. With Korean Air being the only Asian airline at ATL, what makes them fly there and what market do they serve?


There actually is a large Korean community in the Atlanta area and there are a lot of business tie ins with Atlanta and Seoul, so the route makes sense.
 
KATL2
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:33 pm

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:19 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
It's always a great time to plane spot at Hartsfield Jackson. I remember we were on a date on May 29th 2017 and we went to the top floor of the lot in front of the quick drop off/ pick up lanes. It's nice to see planes up close while they're taking off. But does anyone agree that aviation is not the same without the ionic 747 and other special aircraft? Sure there are a few cargo 747's but that doesn't mean nothing. But I'll give you a list of some of the aircrafts I saw that day. It doesn't seem too interesting but you can be the judge of that.

Delta:

A320
A321
A330-300
MD-88
MD-90
737-800
737-900ER

Frontier:
A320

Southwest:
737-700
737-800

Spirit:
A320

JetBlue:
A320

United:
A320
737-800

Virgin Atlantic:
A330-300

Turkish Airways:
A330-300

It might not seem alot. And I know times are changing. But in my opinion seeing a heck load of narrowbodies are starting to get a bit old don't you think? It doesn't mean I'm never gonna come back. But I just wish something special would happen. Not to be annoying or anything, but times changing. And it sucks to see change.


Virgin Atlantic flies the A340 to ATL for their LHR route. That A330 was going to MAN
 
jetero
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:24 pm

Sightseer wrote:
jetero wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
ICN is actually the largest international O&D market from ATL.


You sure about that?

There were approx ~250 enplaned passengers per day from ATL to ICN in 2016, many of which were connecting.

There were ~350 O&D passengers per day from ATL to CUN.

ICN may be top 5 but certainly not the busiest.


Granted, I was not considering short-haul and should've made that distinction in my post, but I find the ICN enplanements surprising considering that KE flew a >400-seat A380 for much of the year, and the fact that ATL-ICN in 2011 had over 250 PDEW.


That number still seems rather high. Are you sure that isn't 2-way?

I'd be somewhat shocked if LHR wasn't a larger market.
 
adtall
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:29 pm

rojotortuga wrote:
With Porsche and Mercedes having their north american headquarters here and BMW having a major Training facility here, I'm guessin we will see 1 or 2 more frequencies going in and out of Germany. (Maybe Berlin)


There's no reason to add any more frequencies on ATL-Germany for those companies, especially not Berlin. Porsche and Mercedes are headquartered in Stuttgart and BMW is in Munich. DL already flies both routes nonstop from ATL (in addition to DUS and FRA). Berlin is on the other side of Germany, so any nonstop from ATL (in addition to the new JFK-TXL, which would likely need to become a stable year-round route before ATL is dreamed of for DL) would have to cater to some other market.
 
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787fan8
Topic Author
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 8:05 pm

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:53 am

This wonderful website shows the incredible history of ATL from a racetrack in 1909 to the 1996 Summer Olympics. If your a Atlantean like me, or your a big ATL lover, you should definitely check this out http://www.sunshineskies.com/atl-history.html
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln
 
Sightseer
Posts: 793
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:04 am

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:08 am

jetero wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
jetero wrote:


You sure about that?

There were approx ~250 enplaned passengers per day from ATL to ICN in 2016, many of which were connecting.

There were ~350 O&D passengers per day from ATL to CUN.

ICN may be top 5 but certainly not the busiest.


Granted, I was not considering short-haul and should've made that distinction in my post, but I find the ICN enplanements surprising considering that KE flew a >400-seat A380 for much of the year, and the fact that ATL-ICN in 2011 had over 250 PDEW.


That number still seems rather high. Are you sure that isn't 2-way?

I'd be somewhat shocked if LHR wasn't a larger market.


Well, this is the most recently available data I can find. It lists the total O&D traffic between ATL and ICN at over 188,000 in 2011, so dividing that by 730 to get PDEW numbers results in ~257, which at that time was 3.5 PDEW higher than LHR.

https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/ ... n-america/
 
jplatts
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Atlanta Air Service Discussion

Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:15 am

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
jetero wrote:

What's your point?


The point that I was trying to make is that Southwest does still sell connecting itineraries through ATL, even though Delta has its main hub and home base at ATL and even though almost all of the connections that can be made through ATL on Southwest can be made through ATL on Delta.


Yeah, I get that.

It's about 1/3 connecting.

So let's work at it backwards.

143 seats in a 73G

Times load factor of what? 80%?

114 onboard

Of which 1/3, or 38, are connecting

Leaving 76 O&D

The pie today is 135 passengers. Mind you--that includes passengers flying ATL-OMA nonstop (admittedly most of the number) and connecting over other hubs. But let's just say 135 of those are flying nonstop.

If that pie doesn't grow, WN would have to get more than 50% overnight, and it would mean DL gave away 50% of the market without a fight.

But let's say they stimulate the market with low fares. What do you think they can do? Grow by 50%? 25%? How much pent-up demand do you think there is ATL-OMA?

Let's say 50% on the high end. So the pie is now 200 give or take. WN gets 76, or slightly more than a third. Overnight. With a single daily flight.

DL carries 10 fewer than it did this year--in other words, it cedes almost 10% of the market, while letting fares drop.

Do you think that scenario is realistic?


UPDATE: Southwest has announced seasonal Saturday-only nonstop service to TPA from OMA starting on March 10, 2018, and Southwest could add daily nonstop service to TPA from OMA if there is enough demand for daily nonstop service to TPA from OMA. There is less need for Southwest to serve ATL nonstop from OMA with the addition of seasonal Saturday-only TPA-OMA nonstop service.

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