seat1a
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Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:25 pm

Just off a flight from SYD to DFW and thought the service in J was outstanding. Got me thinking about how they could pursue more growth opps in America, perhaps to ORD, JFK, maybe SEA on a seasonal basis. Curious if the market in the US is improving or are they challenged by too much capacity. Are they focused more on business travelers? Cahnce that JetStar comes to the US for leisure travelers. Just some thoughts, appreciate your take.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title edited for clarity
 
EddieDude
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:53 pm

seat1a wrote:
Just off a flight from SYD to DFW and thought the service in J was outstanding. Got me thinking about how they could pursue more growth opps in America, perhaps to ORD, JFK, maybe SEA on a seasonal basis. Curious if the market in the US is improving or are they challenged by too much capacity. Are they focused more on business travelers? Cahnce that JetStar comes to the US for leisure travelers. Just some thoughts, appreciate your take.

Jetstar is supposed to be looking at SFO, no?
QF already flies to JFK as a tag-on from LAX; I believe it is the BNE-LAX flight. QF might do something at ORD (if the 787-9 does not have the legs, they might have suitable planes for SYD/BNE-ORD in the future). QF is looking at serving JFK nonstop with the 778 or the A359ULR.
I doubt SEA would work for them. Best to let AA and/or AS take care of SEA for them from LAX.
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Zkpilot
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:54 pm

QF is eyeing up either 778 or A359 to be able to operate to ORD or JFK.
NZ is also interested in the same but could potentially do ORD with current equipment.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:08 pm

JFK (and possibly ORD) are being considered with the 77X or 350, but so far they have not made any commitment. Realistically we're looking at a timeframe in the 2020s.

Until then expect the status quo, although there might be some shuffling if the AA JV is approved.

Jetstar was mentioned in the Australian Aviation thread recently, but seems very unlikely. The 788 in a high density configuration won't make it west bound against the winds with a decent load.
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kriskim
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:36 pm

JQ already serves the US, it operates both MEL-HNL and SYD-HNL.

If the JV with AA is approved this is what I see happening:

- AA replaces QF on QF95/96 MEL-LAX
- QF opens up MEL-DFW
- Possibly QF opens up MEL-SFO

MEL will be the next big market where AA and QF will be targeting, there were already rumours floating around about AA adding MEL once the JV was approved.
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eamondzhang
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:30 pm

EddieDude wrote:
Jetstar is supposed to be looking at SFO, no?
QF already flies to JFK as a tag-on from LAX; I believe it is the BNE-LAX flight. QF might do something at ORD (if the 787-9 does not have the legs, they might have suitable planes for SYD/BNE-ORD in the future). QF is looking at serving JFK nonstop with the 778 or the A359ULR.
I doubt SEA would work for them. Best to let AA and/or AS take care of SEA for them from LAX.

Why would JQ look at SFO when QF mainline already flies there and 788's need to take a payload hit (especially in JQ's config) when flying to the mainland?

QF's JFK flight normally uses the aircraft from BNE, but the flight number is usually the SYD one (since they need a 744 but SYD flight is normally done by A388).

Back to OP, I think a far more likely chance for QF is MEL-DFW, but that needs to wait till the JV to be approved.

Cheers Michael
 
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csturdiv
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:16 am

seat1a wrote:
Just off a flight from SYD to DFW and thought the service in J was outstanding. Got me thinking about how they could pursue more growth opps in America, perhaps to ORD, JFK, maybe SEA on a seasonal basis. Curious if the market in the US is improving or are they challenged by too much capacity. Are they focused more on business travelers? Cahnce that JetStar comes to the US for leisure travelers. Just some thoughts, appreciate your take.


I did SYD-HNL-SYD on JQ and while I love the B788 a few years ago, I did not like JQ on a 10 hour flight, seating and service (even the ones I paid extra for like meals and IFE) were subpar. A 14+ hour flight would not be a fun experience at all.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:37 am

If, and right now that's a big if, the AA JV is approved I wouldn't be surprised to see MEL-LAX go 2x789 and MEL-DFW 1x789, with AA on either DFW or one of the LAX turns. This would be an incremental increase in capacity compared to 1x388 and 1x789 which would strengthen QF'a position in MEL without piling on too much capacity after VA relaunched MEL-LAX and the possibility of UA launching SFO-MEL.
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325i
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:14 am

Seat1a has prompted me to put forward this scenario.
Would it be practical for QF to station a A330/B747 in LAX to serve the LAX/JFK/LAX passengers arriving from BNE/MLB and SYD ?

Alternatively, SYD/DFW/JFK/DFW/SYD , would this be a viable schedule when MLB /DFW comes on board.
I have done the DFW/JFK leg several times as I find it more enjoyable routing than the chaos at LAX!
 
seat1a
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:36 am

325i wrote:
Seat1a has prompted me to put forward this scenario.
Would it be practical for QF to station a A330/B747 in LAX to serve the LAX/JFK/LAX passengers arriving from BNE/MLB and SYD ?

Alternatively, SYD/DFW/JFK/DFW/SYD , would this be a viable schedule when MLB /DFW comes on board.
I have done the DFW/JFK leg several times as I find it more enjoyable routing than the chaos at LAX!


Would the LAX-JFK flight go away once SYD-JFK comes online? What was the genesis of the AA JV? Is it a codeshare on all AA flights out of LAX, DFW? Also, how does this impact operating expenses for QF in NA? DO you get some savings in standardizing the fleet to two aircraft types? Engineering costs? Etc?
 
USAOZ
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:44 am

Qantas group needs to get Jetstar flying to U.S. west coast ASAP. Just got an email from Scoot saying AUD$99-$139 one way PER/OOL/SYD/MEL to SIN. All taxes included but no food, checked bags. Still bloody cheap for 9 hours on a B787.
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:22 am

As my local airport, I'd love to see Qantas or Qantas Freight-or Jetstar for that matter-at Phoenix Sky Harbor.

Reasons for that happening?

Well....aside from British Airways we have no connections to Asia and you have to go through Europe. There are many Asians in Phoenix. Also we have no connections to Oceania except on Hawaiian through Honolulu.

Phoenix has a program where any international airline that adds new service will have free landings and advertisement for the first year. Already paying off with Condor starting flights in 2018.

Phoenix is a One World hub with American and British Airways...specially American could feed Qantas planes with passengers from other markets.

Reasons for that not happening?

Phoenix is..well, Phoenix. We are lagging behind San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, (to a lesser extent) Dallas, Houston, Seattle and ESPECIALLY Los Angeles, when it comes down to business and to population. (well population not in Las Vegas, Denver or Dallas' case but)

American fills Qantas' planes ar Dallas and LAX with passengers from Phoenix..

There is not too much business interests between Arizona and Australia.

I'd be happy if ANY international airline started flying to Phoenix and am happy about Condor, but QF here is not likely to happen.

But I can always dream...
 
zkncj
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:29 am

If anything, it would be good to see Qantas to make an decent go at YVR.
 
tphuang
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:36 am

As someone who has flown jet star many times, I hope they don't make it to continental USA.
 
tayser
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:15 am

zkncj wrote:
If anything, it would be good to see Qantas to make an decent go at YVR.


This.

And with AC having chosen BNE as their second daily destination, there's an opening for QF to get in on MEL before AC eventually expands beyond the seasonals AC have already announced.
 
Yahnih
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:26 am

I think SAN is on the radar according to the SDIA
 
boeing777200lr
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:46 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
As my local airport, I'd love to see Qantas or Qantas Freight-or Jetstar for that matter-at Phoenix Sky Harbor.

Reasons for that happening?

Well....aside from British Airways we have no connections to Asia and you have to go through Europe. There are many Asians in Phoenix. Also we have no connections to Oceania except on Hawaiian through Honolulu.

Phoenix has a program where any international airline that adds new service will have free landings and advertisement for the first year. Already paying off with Condor starting flights in 2018.

Phoenix is a One World hub with American and British Airways...specially American could feed Qantas planes with passengers from other markets.

Reasons for that not happening?

Phoenix is..well, Phoenix. We are lagging behind San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, (to a lesser extent) Dallas, Houston, Seattle and ESPECIALLY Los Angeles, when it comes down to business and to population. (well population not in Las Vegas, Denver or Dallas' case but)

American fills Qantas' planes ar Dallas and LAX with passengers from Phoenix..

There is not too much business interests between Arizona and Australia.

I'd be happy if ANY international airline started flying to Phoenix and am happy about Condor, but QF here is not likely to happen.

But I can always dream...


Don't forget Ansett was planning PHX back in 2001
 
qf789
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:24 am

325i wrote:
Seat1a has prompted me to put forward this scenario.
Would it be practical for QF to station a A330/B747 in LAX to serve the LAX/JFK/LAX passengers arriving from BNE/MLB and SYD ?

Alternatively, SYD/DFW/JFK/DFW/SYD , would this be a viable schedule when MLB /DFW comes on board.
I have done the DFW/JFK leg several times as I find it more enjoyable routing than the chaos at LAX!


No it wouldn't be practical for QF to station a A330 or 747 at LAX. Firstly it would be a wasted resource when QF could use the aircraft to better use elsewhere. The current schedule where the aircraft operates BNE-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE works well and the SYD-LAX and MEL-LAX arrive/depart LAX at similar times to connect to the JFK flight, albeit with some delays from time to time. If you look at the schedule for the past 2 weeks one 747 (VH-OEB) has operated 7 BNE-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE routings of which it has only operated on time 2 of the 28 legs and has averaged just under 19 hours a day flying. As you can see QF push their aircraft quite hard, particularly their 747's, A380's and A330's and having a aircraft based in the US for LAX-JFK-LAX would not allow them to use it elsewhere. Also as of Sunday QF will will be down to 10 747's with the retirement of VH-OJM

Operating JFK from DFW wouldn't be an option. Assuming that a QF/AA joint venture is approved and a MEL-DFW would replace a QF MEL-LAX QF would want maximum operating scheduling for the 789's of which 4 frames would need to be able to do MEL-DFW-MEL-PER-LHR-PER-MEL and a A388 would be far to big to operate DFW-JFK-DFW. Secondly the market to LAX is nearly double the size that DFW would be (I'm talking passengers carried 2 x A388 plus 1 x 744 to LAX versus 1 x A388 and 1 x 789 to DFW) and LAX is far the largest O&D from Australia
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ZK-NBT
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:38 am

Yahnih wrote:
I think SAN is on the radar according to the SDIA


What is SDIA? SAN forget it. I thought SAN had quite a short runway or am I confusing it with somewhere else?
boeing777200lr wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
As my local airport, I'd love to see Qantas or Qantas Freight-or Jetstar for that matter-at Phoenix Sky Harbor.

Reasons for that happening?

Well....aside from British Airways we have no connections to Asia and you have to go through Europe. There are many Asians in Phoenix. Also we have no connections to Oceania except on Hawaiian through Honolulu.

Phoenix has a program where any international airline that adds new service will have free landings and advertisement for the first year. Already paying off with Condor starting flights in 2018.

Phoenix is a One World hub with American and British Airways...specially American could feed Qantas planes with passengers from other markets.

Reasons for that not happening?

Phoenix is..well, Phoenix. We are lagging behind San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, (to a lesser extent) Dallas, Houston, Seattle and ESPECIALLY Los Angeles, when it comes down to business and to population. (well population not in Las Vegas, Denver or Dallas' case but)

American fills Qantas' planes ar Dallas and LAX with passengers from Phoenix..

There is not too much business interests between Arizona and Australia.

I'd be happy if ANY international airline started flying to Phoenix and am happy about Condor, but QF here is not likely to happen.

But I can always dream...


Don't forget Ansett was planning PHX back in 2001


AN was planning PHX, thanks for the laugh. Would never have happened let alone worked.
 
qf789
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:21 am

USAOZ wrote:
Qantas group needs to get Jetstar flying to U.S. west coast ASAP. Just got an email from Scoot saying AUD$99-$139 one way PER/OOL/SYD/MEL to SIN. All taxes included but no food, checked bags. Still bloody cheap for 9 hours on a B787.


You are comparing 2 completely different markets. SIN is the 2nd largest market from Australia accounting for nearly 14% of international traffic, while the US accounts for 8% which is about a difference of 500,000 passengers per month between the 2 markets. Travelling to SIN from Australia is just under 5hrs from PER and 7 and a half to 8 hours from SYD, MEL, OOL/BNE compared to 14hrs+ over the pacific. The fares across the pacific are quite low at the moment which would not be attractive to start such a flight. Operating a LCC over such a distance has failed in the past and would be extremely challenging. As noted above JQ would not be able to operate without penalties from West Coast USA to East Coast Australia.

Yesterday it was discussed in the Australian Aviation Thread about JQ operating LAS-SYD. Below is what I said and I hope it will give you an example of why it can not be operated by JQ

JQ operating LAS-SYD would not be viable. As the route would be about 100-150nm shorter than LAX-MEL the 788 would have performance issues running LAS-SYD. When UA started LAX-MEL they stated the following

United does currently use the 787-8 on some of its flights between L.A. and Melbourne. However, though the 787-8 has the range to do so, United says it would frequently have to account for weight restrictions — flying with fewer passengers or cargo than it has capacity for — to make the journey on the westbound leg. That, United says, would have made it unlikely to add the route without a plan to shift all Melbourne-Los Angeles flights to the 787-9.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayint ... /18025651/

Taking this into account and the fact that JQ has over 100 seats more than a UA 788 plus at LAS you would also have high temps plus the airport is 2181ft ASL would make the route unviable to operate.
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AntonioMartin
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:05 am

[/quote]

Don't forget Ansett was planning PHX back in 2001[/quote]

Wow that is news to me! Would have been nice to see some of Sr. Reg's Boeing 747s with the golden A livery here in PHX thats for sure!!
 
AntonioMartin
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:08 am

[/quote]

AN was planning PHX, thanks for the laugh. Would never have happened let alone worked.[/quote]
Thanks Zk and Boeing 777 for that interesting piece of information!
 
boeing777200lr
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:35 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:


AN was planning PHX, thanks for the laugh. Would never have happened let alone worked.


They used be partners with America West back in the day and bought some stock in the airline I believe. planned before 9/11 happened.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:10 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
Why would JQ look at SFO when QF mainline already flies there and 788's need to take a payload hit (especially in JQ's config) when flying to the mainland?

I did not know QF mainline flies to SFO; sorry. I hope QF is doing great to SFO. Just saw it is a 6x weekly service. 744?

Only reason I mentioned JQ would consider SFO is because I read so on a news article a long time ago. Unfortunately I don't remember the source.
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zkncj
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:51 pm

tayser wrote:
zkncj wrote:
If anything, it would be good to see Qantas to make an decent go at YVR.


This.

And with AC having chosen BNE as their second daily destination, there's an opening for QF to get in on MEL before AC eventually expands beyond the seasonals AC have already announced.


And close the massive gap with the MEL-YVR market the rest of the year is currently traveling MEL-AKL-YVR, NZ's flight to YVR does pretty well with the Australians.
 
alexrg
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:11 pm

What is SDIA? SAN forget it. I thought SAN had quite a short runway or am I confusing it with somewhere else?


SDIA is San Diego International Airport. SAN may have a shorter runway than many airports of its size, but it is able to (and does) handle all widebody passenger aircraft smaller than the A380, i.e. 747's and 777's from BA and 787's from JAL. SAN's runway length is not an obstacle to it getting more international service, even if it is highly unlikely that SAN would ever get flights to Australia.
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joffie
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:50 pm

I would love to see QF do MEL-SFO. It could work.
Also I am not sure what the story is with QF95/96. I have been trying to work it out for a long time. Sometimes it operates, sometimes it doesn't.
In regards to JQ... not sure if JQ from Australia to the Mainland could work.
Wonder if there is much of a market for MEL-DFW.. maybe with the 787 comes along?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:03 am

joffie wrote:
I would love to see QF do MEL-SFO. It could work.
Also I am not sure what the story is with QF95/96. I have been trying to work it out for a long time. Sometimes it operates, sometimes it doesn't.
In regards to JQ... not sure if JQ from Australia to the Mainland could work.
Wonder if there is much of a market for MEL-DFW.. maybe with the 787 comes along?

It's currently seasonal service with QF95/6 operating in high season only. Will be back to year-round when 789 arrives.

MEL-DFW would cater more with connections that currently goes via AKL, SYD & LAX, especially thosegoing to east coast (DFW's got a better coverage out there).
 
325i
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:17 am

Thanks qf 789 for your insight in responding to my "scenario".
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:26 am

alexrg wrote:
What is SDIA? SAN forget it. I thought SAN had quite a short runway or am I confusing it with somewhere else?


SDIA is San Diego International Airport. SAN may have a shorter runway than many airports of its size, but it is able to (and does) handle all widebody passenger aircraft smaller than the A380, i.e. 747's and 777's from BA and 787's from JAL. SAN's runway length is not an obstacle to it getting more international service, even if it is highly unlikely that SAN would ever get flights to Australia.


Given the length of the flight to SYD and resulting weight of the 789 (for example), I don't think SAN's runway is long enough, you have to account for engine out climb performance as well. I think the result would be too big a weight penalty to make $$.

JAL flies to NRT with a 789 but that flight is over four hours shorter than a flight to SYD. BA's LHR flight is even shorter given its eastbound and usually has tailwinds.
 
smi0006
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:56 am

I would assume any potential routes to the US should take into account AA and if the JV gets up. If the JV gets up key routes I see likely are:
MEL-DFW - QF789
LAX-MEL - AA789, QF380 remains
SYD-ORD - QF789 (can a 789 in QF config make it?)
BNE-LAX-JFK - QF789, perhaps AA788 to counter the loss of Y seats removing the 744. Still haven't figured this one. Unless AA ex-DFW to balance the seat loss.

MEL-SFO I feel UA will beat QF/AA to the punch and their isn't demand for all.
MEL-YVR AC will beat QF and there isn't demand for two.

Outside of LAX,DFW,ORD,JFK,SFO I can't see new ports in the US I think AA/QF will focus on network depth. VA have stated they won't grown beyond their current offering out LAX. DL may offer something but I don't feel AU is a focus for them.
 
qf789
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:31 am

smi0006 wrote:
I would assume any potential routes to the US should take into account AA and if the JV gets up. If the JV gets up key routes I see likely are:
MEL-DFW - QF789
LAX-MEL - AA789, QF380 remains
SYD-ORD - QF789 (can a 789 in QF config make it?)
BNE-LAX-JFK - QF789, perhaps AA788 to counter the loss of Y seats removing the 744. Still haven't figured this one. Unless AA ex-DFW to balance the seat loss.

MEL-SFO I feel UA will beat QF/AA to the punch and their isn't demand for all.
MEL-YVR AC will beat QF and there isn't demand for two.

Outside of LAX,DFW,ORD,JFK,SFO I can't see new ports in the US I think AA/QF will focus on network depth. VA have stated they won't grown beyond their current offering out LAX. DL may offer something but I don't feel AU is a focus for them.


I would also add BNE-DFW into the mix as well
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qf789
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Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:35 am

zkncj wrote:
tayser wrote:
zkncj wrote:
If anything, it would be good to see Qantas to make an decent go at YVR.


This.

And with AC having chosen BNE as their second daily destination, there's an opening for QF to get in on MEL before AC eventually expands beyond the seasonals AC have already announced.


And close the massive gap with the MEL-YVR market the rest of the year is currently traveling MEL-AKL-YVR, NZ's flight to YVR does pretty well with the Australians.


QF serving YVR is a low priority and even if they did expand on the seasonal frequency I am not convinced that it would be year round and any such service would be from SYD first
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USAOZ
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:21 am

csturdiv wrote:
seat1a wrote:
Just off a flight from SYD to DFW and thought the service in J was outstanding. Got me thinking about how they could pursue more growth opps in America, perhaps to ORD, JFK, maybe SEA on a seasonal basis. Curious if the market in the US is improving or are they challenged by too much capacity. Are they focused more on business travelers? Cahnce that JetStar comes to the US for leisure travelers. Just some thoughts, appreciate your take.


I did SYD-HNL-SYD on JQ and while I love the B788 a few years ago, I did not like JQ on a 10 hour flight, seating and service (even the ones I paid extra for like meals and IFE) were subpar. A 14+ hour flight would not be a fun experience at all.
got an email from Scoot(SQ low cost, offering various ports in Australia, PER/OOL/SYD/MEL to ATH from AUD$339 to $389 one way via SIN, no meals or bags, on new 787's. A lot of people will put up with a lot at that price. If I was 20 something & had the time, I'd be booking Scoot right now.
 
USAOZ
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Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:25 am

eamondzhang wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
Jetstar is supposed to be looking at SFO, no?
QF already flies to JFK as a tag-on from LAX; I believe it is the BNE-LAX flight. QF might do something at ORD (if the 787-9 does not have the legs, they might have suitable planes for SYD/BNE-ORD in the future). QF is looking at serving JFK nonstop with the 778 or the A359ULR.
I doubt SEA would work for them. Best to let AA and/or AS take care of SEA for them from LAX.

Why would JQ look at SFO when QF mainline already flies there and 788's need to take a payload hit (especially in JQ's config) when flying to the mainland?

QF's JFK flight normally uses the aircraft from BNE, but the flight number is usually the SYD one (since they need a 744 but SYD flight is normally done by A388).

Back to OP, I think a far more likely chance for QF is MEL-DFW, but that needs to wait till the JV to be approved.

Cheers Michael
rather than Qantas or Jetstar flying to more ports in USA, surely there's an opportunity for more U.S. carriers to do what HA do, ie. domestic flight form mainland USA to HNL or OGG then have aircraft continue to Australia. HA do HNL/SYD & now have a monopoly on HNL/BNE nonstop, since Jetstar pulled out end of last year I think it was. Before than Air Australia/Strategic did BNE/HNL but it's fares were just too low to survive.
 
smi0006
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:16 am

qf789 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
I would assume any potential routes to the US should take into account AA and if the JV gets up. If the JV gets up key routes I see likely are:
MEL-DFW - QF789
LAX-MEL - AA789, QF380 remains
SYD-ORD - QF789 (can a 789 in QF config make it?)
BNE-LAX-JFK - QF789, perhaps AA788 to counter the loss of Y seats removing the 744. Still haven't figured this one. Unless AA ex-DFW to balance the seat loss.

MEL-SFO I feel UA will beat QF/AA to the punch and their isn't demand for all.
MEL-YVR AC will beat QF and there isn't demand for two.

Outside of LAX,DFW,ORD,JFK,SFO I can't see new ports in the US I think AA/QF will focus on network depth. VA have stated they won't grown beyond their current offering out LAX. DL may offer something but I don't feel AU is a focus for them.


I would also add BNE-DFW into the mix as well


True - I think it will be linked with BNE-LAX-JFK, and how that plays out. Dropping LAX to a 789 is a capacity drop with out displacing it to another destination. Would give them the upper hand over VA.
 
smi0006
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:20 am

USAOZ wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
EddieDude wrote:
Jetstar is supposed to be looking at SFO, no?
QF already flies to JFK as a tag-on from LAX; I believe it is the BNE-LAX flight. QF might do something at ORD (if the 787-9 does not have the legs, they might have suitable planes for SYD/BNE-ORD in the future). QF is looking at serving JFK nonstop with the 778 or the A359ULR.
I doubt SEA would work for them. Best to let AA and/or AS take care of SEA for them from LAX.

Why would JQ look at SFO when QF mainline already flies there and 788's need to take a payload hit (especially in JQ's config) when flying to the mainland?

QF's JFK flight normally uses the aircraft from BNE, but the flight number is usually the SYD one (since they need a 744 but SYD flight is normally done by A388).

Back to OP, I think a far more likely chance for QF is MEL-DFW, but that needs to wait till the JV to be approved.

Cheers Michael
rather than Qantas or Jetstar flying to more ports in USA, surely there's an opportunity for more U.S. carriers to do what HA do, ie. domestic flight form mainland USA to HNL or OGG then have aircraft continue to Australia. HA do HNL/SYD & now have a monopoly on HNL/BNE nonstop, since Jetstar pulled out end of last year I think it was. Before than Air Australia/Strategic did BNE/HNL but it's fares were just too low to survive.


I'm not sure much more capacity is needed into Hawaii. JQ,QF,HA, NZ to an extent have the routes covered. I could perhaps see HA add MEL at some point. Otherwise it's a leisure route with a lot of people burning their points to fly JQ or QF. As a hub for mainland flights it's a bit of a pain having to collect and recheck your bags so 'early' into the journey ex-AU. From a personal preference I'd rather get he long sector over and done with wake up with a coffee and then move to a shorter one. Equally reversed short journey ex-US before a sleep on the long flight home. Especially as we see QF &a NZ expand into ORD/IAH/DFW linking the smaller AU port - PER/ADL/CBR I can't see HNL being competitive for stop overs.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:34 am

Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:44 am

smi0006 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
Why would JQ look at SFO when QF mainline already flies there and 788's need to take a payload hit (especially in JQ's config) when flying to the mainland?

QF's JFK flight normally uses the aircraft from BNE, but the flight number is usually the SYD one (since they need a 744 but SYD flight is normally done by A388).

Back to OP, I think a far more likely chance for QF is MEL-DFW, but that needs to wait till the JV to be approved.

Cheers Michael
rather than Qantas or Jetstar flying to more ports in USA, surely there's an opportunity for more U.S. carriers to do what HA do, ie. domestic flight form mainland USA to HNL or OGG then have aircraft continue to Australia. HA do HNL/SYD & now have a monopoly on HNL/BNE nonstop, since Jetstar pulled out end of last year I think it was. Before than Air Australia/Strategic did BNE/HNL but it's fares were just too low to survive.


I'm not sure much more capacity is needed into Hawaii. JQ,QF,HA, NZ to an extent have the routes covered. I could perhaps see HA add MEL at some point. Otherwise it's a leisure route with a lot of people burning their points to fly JQ or QF. As a hub for mainland flights it's a bit of a pain having to collect and recheck your bags so 'early' into the journey ex-AU. From a personal preference I'd rather get he long sector over and done with wake up with a coffee and then move to a shorter one. Equally reversed short journey ex-US before a sleep on the long flight home. Especially as we see QF &a NZ expand into ORD/IAH/DFW linking the smaller AU port - PER/ADL/CBR I can't see HNL being competitive for stop overs.
Costwise, there would be no weight restricted flights, even with high density seating HNL/Australia. Could possibly even do HNL/ADL. For some strange reason Australians like stopping in Hawaii. Thought our beaches are much better & HA have no competition HNL/BNE. Who wants to fly via SYD or even worse AKL. Don't even think BNE/AKL/HNL would connect.
 
redroo
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:40 am

BNE LAX JFK will go 787 pretty quickly IMHO. This will get rid of a single 747 in BNE; will give lots of J seats on JFK and less Y (perfect for the route); and I think it will right side BNE LAX as well. The cheapest flights from PER LAX are usually through BNE which suggests QF trying to fill those seats.
 
qf789
Crew
Posts: 2555
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:58 am

redroo wrote:
BNE LAX JFK will go 787 pretty quickly IMHO. This will get rid of a single 747 in BNE; will give lots of J seats on JFK and less Y (perfect for the route); and I think it will right side BNE LAX as well. The cheapest flights from PER LAX are usually through BNE which suggests QF trying to fill those seats.


I'm of the same opinion. Also add in the fact that QF had increased the amount of seats out of MEL plus the fact flying from PER will soon be a same plane service to LAX via MEL. It will be interesting to see how the later flight time into LAX performs, I would think it would be ideal for those not needing to connect in LAX.
Forum Moderator
 
qf789
Crew
Posts: 2555
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Qantas Opps for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:32 am

USAOZ wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
rather than Qantas or Jetstar flying to more ports in USA, surely there's an opportunity for more U.S. carriers to do what HA do, ie. domestic flight form mainland USA to HNL or OGG then have aircraft continue to Australia. HA do HNL/SYD & now have a monopoly on HNL/BNE nonstop, since Jetstar pulled out end of last year I think it was. Before than Air Australia/Strategic did BNE/HNL but it's fares were just too low to survive.


I'm not sure much more capacity is needed into Hawaii. JQ,QF,HA, NZ to an extent have the routes covered. I could perhaps see HA add MEL at some point. Otherwise it's a leisure route with a lot of people burning their points to fly JQ or QF. As a hub for mainland flights it's a bit of a pain having to collect and recheck your bags so 'early' into the journey ex-AU. From a personal preference I'd rather get he long sector over and done with wake up with a coffee and then move to a shorter one. Equally reversed short journey ex-US before a sleep on the long flight home. Especially as we see QF &a NZ expand into ORD/IAH/DFW linking the smaller AU port - PER/ADL/CBR I can't see HNL being competitive for stop overs.
Costwise, there would be no weight restricted flights, even with high density seating HNL/Australia. Could possibly even do HNL/ADL. For some strange reason Australians like stopping in Hawaii. Thought our beaches are much better & HA have no competition HNL/BNE. Who wants to fly via SYD or even worse AKL. Don't even think BNE/AKL/HNL would connect.


DFW-SYD is really the only flight that suffers a significant penalty. You also need to take other things into account for a flight to be costwise such as airport costs, landing fees, cleaning, catering etc and would expect it would be less attractive to offer a stop in HNL. HNL is also a leisure market and you wouldn't want to tie up your aircraft, especially those that are configured for a significant number of premium passengers on such a market, it would just be a waste. The other thing to take in account with HNL that the market between HNL and Australia is not attractive as a few years ago when the US and Australian dollar where on parity, today markets in Asia are much more attractive.
Forum Moderator
 
smi0006
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:08 am

qf789 wrote:
redroo wrote:
BNE LAX JFK will go 787 pretty quickly IMHO. This will get rid of a single 747 in BNE; will give lots of J seats on JFK and less Y (perfect for the route); and I think it will right side BNE LAX as well. The cheapest flights from PER LAX are usually through BNE which suggests QF trying to fill those seats.


I'm of the same opinion. Also add in the fact that QF had increased the amount of seats out of MEL plus the fact flying from PER will soon be a same plane service to LAX via MEL. It will be interesting to see how the later flight time into LAX performs, I would think it would be ideal for those not needing to connect in LAX.


I would say QF will balance PER-LAX between BNE and MEL. They will still want to retrain high yielding LHR pax from MEL.

I think PER-BNE-LAX will be same plan also. Could the second batch of 4 manage PER-CDG-PER-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE-PER? Or would that require 6 frames? If BNE-LAX occurs what's the likely hood of BNE-DFW over MEL-DFW?
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:53 am

smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
redroo wrote:
BNE LAX JFK will go 787 pretty quickly IMHO. This will get rid of a single 747 in BNE; will give lots of J seats on JFK and less Y (perfect for the route); and I think it will right side BNE LAX as well. The cheapest flights from PER LAX are usually through BNE which suggests QF trying to fill those seats.


I'm of the same opinion. Also add in the fact that QF had increased the amount of seats out of MEL plus the fact flying from PER will soon be a same plane service to LAX via MEL. It will be interesting to see how the later flight time into LAX performs, I would think it would be ideal for those not needing to connect in LAX.


I would say QF will balance PER-LAX between BNE and MEL. They will still want to retrain high yielding LHR pax from MEL.

I think PER-BNE-LAX will be same plan also. Could the second batch of 4 manage PER-CDG-PER-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE-PER? Or would that require 6 frames? If BNE-LAX occurs what's the likely hood of BNE-DFW over MEL-DFW?

If the proposed CDG-PER-LAX-JFK return schedule is similar to LHR-PER-MEL-LAX then no it needs 5 planes at least - the ground time at LAX won't be sufficient to make a return trip to JFK, nor the timing as well (it will probably arrive into LAX in the mid-day, which for SYD/MEL originated customers it would mean a 6+ hr layover).
 
Samfam1000
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:17 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
As my local airport, I'd love to see Qantas or Qantas Freight-or Jetstar for that matter-at Phoenix Sky Harbor.

Reasons for that happening?

Well....aside from British Airways we have no connections to Asia and you have to go through Europe. There are many Asians in Phoenix. Also we have no connections to Oceania except on Hawaiian through Honolulu.

Phoenix has a program where any international airline that adds new service will have free landings and advertisement for the first year. Already paying off with Condor starting flights in 2018.

Phoenix is a One World hub with American and British Airways...specially American could feed Qantas planes with passengers from other markets.

Reasons for that not happening?

Phoenix is..well, Phoenix. We are lagging behind San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, (to a lesser extent) Dallas, Houston, Seattle and ESPECIALLY Los Angeles, when it comes down to business and to population. (well population not in Las Vegas, Denver or Dallas' case but)

American fills Qantas' planes ar Dallas and LAX with passengers from Phoenix..

There is not too much business interests between Arizona and Australia.

I'd be happy if ANY international airline started flying to Phoenix and am happy about Condor, but QF here is not likely to happen.

But I can always dream...


Its a sad state of affairs in PHX for international travel right now. The folks in PHX are jumping with joy when Condor announced they would start service, which is essentially table scraps from SAN. In the meantime, comparable size markets such as SJC, SLC, and AUS are screaming past PHX with international service. Even SAN with its single runway and payload restrictions will have 3 mainline overseas carriers and one leisure carrier by next year. Pretty embarrassing for PHX given they have tried for years to get new service and all they get is DE.
 
qf789
Crew
Posts: 2555
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:30 am

eamondzhang wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

I'm of the same opinion. Also add in the fact that QF had increased the amount of seats out of MEL plus the fact flying from PER will soon be a same plane service to LAX via MEL. It will be interesting to see how the later flight time into LAX performs, I would think it would be ideal for those not needing to connect in LAX.


I would say QF will balance PER-LAX between BNE and MEL. They will still want to retrain high yielding LHR pax from MEL.

I think PER-BNE-LAX will be same plan also. Could the second batch of 4 manage PER-CDG-PER-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE-PER? Or would that require 6 frames? If BNE-LAX occurs what's the likely hood of BNE-DFW over MEL-DFW?

If the proposed CDG-PER-LAX-JFK return schedule is similar to LHR-PER-MEL-LAX then no it needs 5 planes at least - the ground time at LAX won't be sufficient to make a return trip to JFK, nor the timing as well (it will probably arrive into LAX in the mid-day, which for SYD/MEL originated customers it would mean a 6+ hr layover).


CDG-PER-BNE-LAX would be doable with 4 frames, that's with a daily BNE-LAX and 6 weekly PER-CDG (bare in mind under the current bilateral only 6 weekly can be operated). A couple of issues with it running this way would be BNE-LAX would need to be pushed back to an evening departure and secondly the LAX tag would effectively need to be done from either QF11/12 or QF93/94 A388 service which I'm not sure would be a good idea.
Forum Moderator
 
NZ321
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:35 am

I can see Qf 789 getting utilised fully fairly quickly. Do they have options on further aircraft anytime soon?
 
qf789
Crew
Posts: 2555
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:46 am

NZ321 wrote:
I can see Qf 789 getting utilised fully fairly quickly. Do they have options on further aircraft anytime soon?


They have 15 options with delivery dates up to 2020 then 30 purchase rights for delivery 2020-2025
Forum Moderator
 
bfitzflyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:45 pm

Perhaps they could give India a try again, although the partnership with Emirates might not make that ideal.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:32 pm

Samfam1000 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
As my local airport, I'd love to see Qantas or Qantas Freight-or Jetstar for that matter-at Phoenix Sky Harbor.

Reasons for that happening?

Well....aside from British Airways we have no connections to Asia and you have to go through Europe. There are many Asians in Phoenix. Also we have no connections to Oceania except on Hawaiian through Honolulu.

Phoenix has a program where any international airline that adds new service will have free landings and advertisement for the first year. Already paying off with Condor starting flights in 2018.

Phoenix is a One World hub with American and British Airways...specially American could feed Qantas planes with passengers from other markets.

Reasons for that not happening?

Phoenix is..well, Phoenix. We are lagging behind San Francisco, Las Vegas, Denver, (to a lesser extent) Dallas, Houston, Seattle and ESPECIALLY Los Angeles, when it comes down to business and to population. (well population not in Las Vegas, Denver or Dallas' case but)

American fills Qantas' planes ar Dallas and LAX with passengers from Phoenix..

There is not too much business interests between Arizona and Australia.

I'd be happy if ANY international airline started flying to Phoenix and am happy about Condor, but QF here is not likely to happen.

But I can always dream...


Its a sad state of affairs in PHX for international travel right now. The folks in PHX are jumping with joy when Condor announced they would start service, which is essentially table scraps from SAN. In the meantime, comparable size markets such as SJC, SLC, and AUS are screaming past PHX with international service. Even SAN with its single runway and payload restrictions will have 3 mainline overseas carriers and one leisure carrier by next year. Pretty embarrassing for PHX given they have tried for years to get new service and all they get is DE.


I actually wrote to the airport manager about trying to get Emirates and Etihad a few years ago and he told me basically what you just said. Plus even Aeromexico left..(though we got Volaris in return)... but yeah its sad. Part of it is that Phoenix as a city in whole is happy to play second fiddle to LA and we have seen our growth stagnate.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Qantas Opportunities for America and beyond

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:48 pm

qf789 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I would say QF will balance PER-LAX between BNE and MEL. They will still want to retrain high yielding LHR pax from MEL.

I think PER-BNE-LAX will be same plan also. Could the second batch of 4 manage PER-CDG-PER-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE-PER? Or would that require 6 frames? If BNE-LAX occurs what's the likely hood of BNE-DFW over MEL-DFW?

If the proposed CDG-PER-LAX-JFK return schedule is similar to LHR-PER-MEL-LAX then no it needs 5 planes at least - the ground time at LAX won't be sufficient to make a return trip to JFK, nor the timing as well (it will probably arrive into LAX in the mid-day, which for SYD/MEL originated customers it would mean a 6+ hr layover).


CDG-PER-BNE-LAX would be doable with 4 frames, that's with a daily BNE-LAX and 6 weekly PER-CDG (bare in mind under the current bilateral only 6 weekly can be operated). A couple of issues with it running this way would be BNE-LAX would need to be pushed back to an evening departure and secondly the LAX tag would effectively need to be done from either QF11/12 or QF93/94 A388 service which I'm not sure would be a good idea.

That's right, so that's why I said if there is an extension to JFK it will need 5 planes and long transit hours for those from MEL/SYD to JFK.

Thanks for the bilaterial restriction, almost forget about this, especially since it's been ages since we have a same plane thru service to CDG.

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