User avatar
yowza
Topic Author
Posts: 4404
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

Confirmed: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:24 pm

If my Spanish comprehension is up to par (big if :D) it looks as if the powers that be in Buenos Aires are putting the AU fleet under the microscope and that the E190's days may be numbered.
Sin embargo, todo parece indicar que se venderán en paquete.

Argentinians, how reliable is La Nacion typically with such stories?

I was left scratching my head a little but at this:
También, Aerolíneas Argentinas y Austral vuelan, además de con los Embraer, con Boeing y con Airbus.

Eso implica que haya que tener tres líneas de repuestos, tres tipos de capacitación y certificación del personal técnico. También significa que los pilotos tienen que hacer cursos y simulador para tres familias de aviones.

I appreciate the combined AR/AU fleet is small but is this that much of a problem?

[Source: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina]
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
User avatar
DABYT
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:36 pm

Despite not being Argentine i would say La Nacion is a reliable source. The main reason for considering selling the Embraer is that they are too small for Australs (Aerolineas Argentinas) needs. Anyway until now no decision has been made so they might stay with Austral for a while.
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:25 pm

Just read a translation of the page. Seems to me there is a disconnect here between the management and reality.

First they are going off increasing sales. Why not put extra seats in the E190? 94 is a bit low and it could easily squeeze extra in. The second is, why try and sell them when you have started taking depreciation on them already? If anything, shop for bargain adds and increase frequency.

Just because your numbers are up doesn't mean you need the shiniest and newest aircraft. AR itself has taken GE-engined A330CEO aircraft recently that are working their routes and doing so admirably. They didn't go for 777s or A350s despite increasing traffic, they got examples of what works well today with the right capacity. Turning over the AU fleet just sounds like an exercise in debt-junkie management.
 
dcajet
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:49 am

The 26 strong fleet (24 owned, 2 leased), operated by Austral, may soon be leaving the AR Group, as early as 2018.

The Jungle Jets have fallen victim to the growth of air travel in Argentina and have become simply too small and too expensive on a CASM basis, compared to the 738 and 73G, and the MAX 8, that will join the fleet in November.

With Flybondi and Norwegian arriving in Argentina by Q.4 17 and Q1 18, Avianca (possibly the A320) and LATAM Argentina planning to add the A321 to its fleet, the Aerolineas Group needs a more cost-competitive and bigger capacity fleet for Austral.

A decision about the retirement and the replacement of the 26 strong fleet will be taken by December.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
C010T3
Posts: 1855
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:19 am

Argentina has plenty of smaller destinations for which the fleet makes sense, but I guess that is not the point.

May the best carriers survive the bloodbath.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:28 am

Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1559
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:32 am

AtomicGarden wrote:
Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.


Will AR be getting more than 11 (or thereabouts) 737MAXs? I would think they are preparing a rather decent expansion to fend off flybondi and Norwegian?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1788
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:49 am

VA is retiring its E190s for the same reason. They are a very comfortable plane to fly on but their trip costs are not sufficiently less than a 738 to justify the costs of keeping an additional type in the fleet.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 789, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
airliner371
Posts: 2329
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:18 am

Sounds like the story of every E190 operator. B6 is evaluating its E190 fleet as well, and DL cancelled the deliveries of the E190 from AC who is also getting rid of them...
Support Net Neutrality, Support airliners.net!
 
rbavfan
Posts: 2237
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AR mulls retiring entire E190 fleet

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:20 am

dcajet wrote:
The 26 strong fleet (24 owned, 2 leased), operated by Austral, may soon be leaving the AR Group, as early as 2018.

The Jungle Jets have fallen victim to the growth of air travel in Argentina and have become simply too small and too expensive on a CASM basis, compared to the 738 and 73G, and the MAX 8, that will join the fleet in November.

With Flybondi and Norwegian arriving in Argentina by Q.4 17 and Q1 18, Avianca (possibly the A320) and LATAM Argentina planning to add the A321 to its fleet, the Aerolineas Group needs a more cost-competitive and bigger capacity fleet for Austral.

A decision about the retirement and the replacement of the 26 strong fleet will be taken by December.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2048496-aero ... o-cristina



It's owned by the government & Aerolineas Argentinas, but its AU's aircraft, not AR's.
 
dcajet
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Besides high CASM and small-ish capacity, there is another reason Austral is considering phasing out its E190s: the high cost of maintenance. Quite the same tune we have heard from JetBlue and others.

In the case of Austral, the older machines are around 7 years since brand new and a costly components' overhaul is coming up: landing gears and engines. So the airline reckons that this is the right time to upgauge the fleet to higher capacity aircraft.

As mentioned earlier, a decision should be made by year's end and the AR Group is talking about an "all in one deal package", not getting rid of them in piecemeal fashion. That gives credence to the rumors of a top up order for more 737 MAX; the idea going around is to transfer to Austral part of the 737 800 fleet while Aerolineas replaces them with the MAX 8 - 11 are on order. There are two more 800s scheduled for delivery in August and September and from that delivery onwards, all incoming 737s will be MAX 8. AR has a very solid, 50+ years relationship with Boeing and Argentina is 737 country since 1970. The latter is also courting AR with a 787 deal, as the airline has to make a decision in the coming 18 months about its long range fleet - specifically a replacement for the A340. The A330 is doing great, and AR already flies the longest non stop route for the A330 (EZE- FCO) but the airiine needs a bit more range and capacity if - and it is only a matter of time - it decides to return to Australia or points in Europe beyond Spain and Italy for which the 330 clearly falls short.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:44 pm

dcajet wrote:
Besides high CASM and small-ish capacity, there is another reason Austral is considering phasing out its E190s: the high cost of maintenance. Quite the same tune we have heard from JetBlue and others.


UX used the same argument to schedule getting rid of the E jets. (moving to a Boeing-only fleet, B738 for shot haul)
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:37 am

jbs2886 wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
Yes, E Jets are likely to be replaced by bigger aircraft. While I'd love to see some CSeries in AU's colours, it is more likely to be swapped with 737s. It is said that the MAX will go for AR and the NGs will find a new home with AU. Partly fleet rationalization, partly need for capacity. The very link says AR/AU carried 30% more pax than 2 years ago. Also, E Jets weren't the most popular with pilots who thought of them of a downgrade from larger MD's.

AR has a long and good relationship with Boeing, E190's are mostly owned, I'm sure we can sell them and get good deals from Boeing.

All in all, this is good news, but in very early stages.


Will AR be getting more than 11 (or thereabouts) 737MAXs? I would think they are preparing a rather decent expansion to fend off flybondi and Norwegian?


No words so far, but I think it's a given. Wouldn't be surprised to see a follow up order with a mix of NG and MAX.

Mind you, while I think a MAX+787 fleet would be terrific, I tend to like Airbus more, specially long haul; AFAIK an A350/A330Neo is not necessarily impossible (this is not just my wishful thinking).
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 9908
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:45 am

If many E190 operators are doing/considering this, who will buy all these planes ?

Is Boeing starting a new leasing business of E-Jets I haven't heard about ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
OlafW
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:28 am

Jayafe wrote:
B738 for shot haul


Would that be routes between airports close to each other like EZE/AEP-MVD or USH-PUQ?
SCNR
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8079
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:16 pm

This order by Austral has been suspect since day 1 of political meddling in Argentina and in Brazil. It likely wasn’t the right airplane for their needs from the start, so it isn’t surprising they might be looking to upgauge.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
dcajet
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: E190's on the way out at Austral?

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 pm

OlafW wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
B738 for shot haul


Would that be routes between airports close to each other like EZE/AEP-MVD or USH-PUQ?
SCNR


In AR's network, 738s are truly "all terrain" - they fly short segments such as AEP-MVD (25 minutes) to EZE-LIM or EZE-CCS (not currently operating).
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
LPSHobby
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:00 pm

Austral is anouncing they will sell their 26 E-190 ( 90 seats ) and replace them with 737s with 170 seats

link, in portuguese only:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/2017/12/30/golp ... de-e-jets/
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 1147
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:08 pm

The Austral livery will definitely look good on the 737, although I think the CS100 would fit them better
A350/CSeries = bae
 
jbs2886
Posts: 1559
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:16 pm

A bit unclear in the translation, but will this entail additional orders or simply moving 737s over?

Other big news in there is that Aerolineas is evaluating the 777, 787 and the A350.
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 894
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:21 pm

That quite the capacity boost
@DadCelo
 
iceberg210
Posts: 235
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:11 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:40 pm

Wonder where all those E190's are going to end up. That's a whole 5% of the fleet.
Congrats to Austral, big exciting increase.
Erik Berg
Defying Gravity
 
CX747
Posts: 5958
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:52 am

As others stated, where will the 737s be coming from?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1529
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:18 am

I think this news is premature as Austral is planning to issue a RFP in the first three months of 2018. The RFP goes out to Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer. The CEO has said that the process will take at least 5 months.

Source: https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... fp-in-1q18

(Based on interview with the CEO during the delivery of Aerolineas Argentinas first B737MAX8).

So, no decision yet and the title of this thread should be changed.

Cheers! :wave:
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Momo1435
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:44 am

This news comes from a press meeting with the CEO of Aerolineas Argentinas which took place on 27 December, it's very recent and accurate information.

same story in Spanish.
http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201712/23 ... tinas.html


The 1st 737 will join the Austral fleet this January. With the 737 MAX coming in at Aerolineas Argentinas it will probably mean that some of their 737 NGs will go to Austral. Otherwise they can always easily source some 2nd hand 737s.

I wonder if this quick decision on the retirement of the Embraer fleet is a direct reaction to Norwegian coming into the Argentinian market.



The CEO also talked about the replacement of the Aerolineas Argentinas wide body fleet from 2019, they are looking at the 777, the 787 and the A350.
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1529
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 am

Funny, as the CH-aviation article is from the same press meeting. So, who has the right interpretation?
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Momo1435
Posts: 415
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:17 am

LifelinerOne wrote:
Funny, as the CH-aviation article is from the same press meeting. So, who has the right interpretation?

The CH-aviation article was from 08 DEC 2017, they must have made a quick decision on the fleet renewal later in the month.

It could be just a decision to start the replacement early. An RFP could still be issued for the full replacement of all E-190s as the number of MAX coming in will not be enough to complete this replacement by just doing a fleet shuffle.
 
dcajet
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Confirmed: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:37 pm

Somebody is jumping the gun here. While the upgauge to a larger capacity plane is confirmed, no details have emerged yet and the January date is not real.

The only new planes arriving to the AR Group fleet over the next few months are:

LV-GVE 737 MAX 8, msn 64208/ 6717, due to arrive @ EZE from BFI on delivery today

LV-HKU, 737 MAX 8, due end of January

LV-HKV 737 MAX 8, due February

Until we see something in the local Argentina press, confirming everything, I'd treat these news as unconfirmed rumors.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
dcajet
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Confirmed: Austral will replace their E-190 with 737s

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:13 am

Indeed proving that the story about AU replacing the E190s with 737s was "fake news". the Grupo Aerolineas announced today it has issued RFPs to Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer to replace the 26-strong EJets fleet. One RFP condition is that the supplier has to take the 24 E190s AU owns as part of the deal (2 are leased).

Since they were ordered, the EJets purchase has been controversial in Argentina: the opposition then, now government, has maintained all along that the agreement to purchase these planes was signed by Lula and Cristina Kirchner as a political gesture without much consideration to the needs of Austral, and that Argentina paid up to US$5MM more per plane in an obscure deal involving Brazil BNDES bank. Both Lula and Cristina are now up to their eyeballs in legal problems and the only thing stopping Mrs K from landing in prison is that she managed to secure a minority senate seat in last November's election.

Politics aside, the liberalization of the market in Argentina sealed the fate of the Embraers at Austral. They are too small to be effective in today's marketplace. For a bit more in costs, a 737 or an A320 can deliver almost double the revenue.

https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2103867-aer ... es-embraer
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos