jgcotter
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat May 05, 2018 2:55 am

15 x CR9 for PSA and 15 x E175 for Envoy:

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/america ... aer-order/
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2791
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat May 05, 2018 2:58 am

LAXintl wrote:
News story

American to Cut Ties With 2 Regional Airlines
https://skift.com/2018/05/04/american-a ... reamlines/

=


Just the start of regional consolidation, IMO. Not just at American either
From my cold, dead hands
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1073
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Sat May 05, 2018 6:32 am

Well Trans States is probably not a bad idea based on what happened off of that UA* flt...
-Andrés Juánez
 
justplanenutz
Posts: 587
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:48 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Wed May 09, 2018 9:04 pm

So if Envoy is still transferring 145s to Piedmont, why are the TSA 145s going to Envoy next April? Will Piedmont be done taking 145s?
 
jgcotter
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 12:43 am

E145 N614AE is en route from ABI to RIC for transfer from Trans States Airlines to Piedmont. 44 x E145 on property now at Piedmont.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N614AE
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 4:13 am

jgcotter wrote:
E145 N614AE is en route from ABI to RIC for transfer from Trans States Airlines to Piedmont. 44 x E145 on property now at Piedmont.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N614AE


To my understanding, AA is dumping all CRJ-200 flying yet moving E145 to PI, both a/c with a capacity of 50 pax. High CASM is typically mentioned as a reason for the elimination of the CRJ-200s and 50 seat flying in general, so my question is, are E145s less expensive to operate? I don't think they are more comfortable by any means.
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 4:18 am

I believe most of the E145s are owned so their capital cost is basically nothing.
 
mhkansan
Posts: 792
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:02 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 8:51 am

To my understanding, AA is dumping all CRJ-200 flying yet moving E145 to PI, both a/c with a capacity of 50 pax. High CASM is typically mentioned as a reason for the elimination of the CRJ-200s and 50 seat flying in general, so my question is, are E145s less expensive to operate? I don't think they are more comfortable by any means.


I think you have the right idea. High CASM definitely is contributing to the shift at AA and all airlines towards larger aircraft, although I don't think the E45 is in particular any more or less expensive than a CRJ-200. No matter who owns the aircraft, they are old enough in age that ownership costs are negligible. The only non-owned ones left are at OO, I think, and I think some of those may be flown pro-rate.

Now that Air Wisconsin flying is gone, there are still CRJ-200s at PSA and Skywest. Some of the OO CRJ-200s are flown to EAS markets so I think some of those jets will be around for awhile, but will be displaced by some of the ExpressJet CRJ-700s coming to fly for American at OO. Some of those CRJ-700s at EV are getting new cabins installed as we speak in the 9/56 config which qualifies it as a small regional jet.

In the order announced last week for the PSA CRJ-900s, it was noted that those larger regional jets would displace some 50-seat jets. I don't know if all of the PSA CR2s will be parked but I imagine as those new jets are delivered they will be.

So here's a quick rundown of what I understand to be the case:
Piedmont is transitioning to be the 50-seat operator with the ex-Envoy E45s. They are positioned to take up more and could probably pretty easily take 140s if necessary, flying regional routes mostly out of PHL but also through CLT.
PSA continues to be a strong regional provider in CLT & PHL and potentially takes on more NE flying in DC and NYC with CRJ equipment.
Envoy continues to be the primary regional lift in DFW and ORD with Embraer equipment: 175s, 145s, and 140s and also expanding in their MIA base and potentially reopening the LAX base.
Wholly-owned regionals will make up the bulk of regional flying and each hub will have a wholly owned regional carrier with the bulk of the flying, optimizing spare availability and redundancy.

Skywest will fly primarily CRJ-700s in PHX LAX, and ORD, as they do today, potentially with some CRJ-200s remaining in ORD. I almost guarantee the EV CR7s end up at OO the same way the EV CR2s did.
Mesa is having staffing issues with the -900s in PHX and DFW but assuming they can continue to provide lift they will be part of the equation.
Republic has the bulk of E75 flying in the east coast, subject to staffing availability.
Compass - I think like many others that when their contact expires in 2020, those jets will go to Envoy.

3 owned + 3 non-owned seems like a good mix to me.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 1:46 pm

mhkansan wrote:
To my understanding, AA is dumping all CRJ-200 flying yet moving E145 to PI, both a/c with a capacity of 50 pax. High CASM is typically mentioned as a reason for the elimination of the CRJ-200s and 50 seat flying in general, so my question is, are E145s less expensive to operate? I don't think they are more comfortable by any means.


I think you have the right idea. High CASM definitely is contributing to the shift at AA and all airlines towards larger aircraft, although I don't think the E45 is in particular any more or less expensive than a CRJ-200. No matter who owns the aircraft, they are old enough in age that ownership costs are negligible. The only non-owned ones left are at OO, I think, and I think some of those may be flown pro-rate.

Now that Air Wisconsin flying is gone, there are still CRJ-200s at PSA and Skywest. Some of the OO CRJ-200s are flown to EAS markets so I think some of those jets will be around for awhile, but will be displaced by some of the ExpressJet CRJ-700s coming to fly for American at OO. Some of those CRJ-700s at EV are getting new cabins installed as we speak in the 9/56 config which qualifies it as a small regional jet.

In the order announced last week for the PSA CRJ-900s, it was noted that those larger regional jets would displace some 50-seat jets. I don't know if all of the PSA CR2s will be parked but I imagine as those new jets are delivered they will be.

So here's a quick rundown of what I understand to be the case:
Piedmont is transitioning to be the 50-seat operator with the ex-Envoy E45s. They are positioned to take up more and could probably pretty easily take 140s if necessary, flying regional routes mostly out of PHL but also through CLT.
PSA continues to be a strong regional provider in CLT & PHL and potentially takes on more NE flying in DC and NYC with CRJ equipment.
Envoy continues to be the primary regional lift in DFW and ORD with Embraer equipment: 175s, 145s, and 140s and also expanding in their MIA base and potentially reopening the LAX base.
Wholly-owned regionals will make up the bulk of regional flying and each hub will have a wholly owned regional carrier with the bulk of the flying, optimizing spare availability and redundancy.

Skywest will fly primarily CRJ-700s in PHX LAX, and ORD, as they do today, potentially with some CRJ-200s remaining in ORD. I almost guarantee the EV CR7s end up at OO the same way the EV CR2s did.
Mesa is having staffing issues with the -900s in PHX and DFW but assuming they can continue to provide lift they will be part of the equation.
Republic has the bulk of E75 flying in the east coast, subject to staffing availability.
Compass - I think like many others that when their contact expires in 2020, those jets will go to Envoy.

3 owned + 3 non-owned seems like a good mix to me.

Excellent summary, thank you
 
washingtonflyer
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 2:36 pm

From a performance and runway perspective, is there a preference at AA of CR2s v E-145s?
 
caflyboy
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:50 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 3:00 pm

Republic is now partially owned by AA. So Technically its 3 wholly owned, 1 partially owned and 2 non-owned.
 
alasizon
Posts: 1265
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 10, 2018 4:36 pm

mhkansan wrote:
Now that Air Wisconsin flying is gone, there are still CRJ-200s at PSA and Skywest. Some of the OO CRJ-200s are flown to EAS markets so I think some of those jets will be around for awhile, but will be displaced by some of the ExpressJet CRJ-700s coming to fly for American at OO. Some of those CRJ-700s at EV are getting new cabins installed as we speak in the 9/56 config which qualifies it as a small regional jet.


The majority of the EV birds are already in the 9F/56Y config and my guess is they will temporarily be used to backfill for when the existing 6F/64Y birds go in for re-config (or those 6F/64Y birds will go the way of the dodo).

So here's a quick rundown of what I understand to be the case:
Piedmont is transitioning to be the 50-seat operator with the ex-Envoy E45s. They are positioned to take up more and could probably pretty easily take 140s if necessary, flying regional routes mostly out of PHL but also through CLT.
PSA continues to be a strong regional provider in CLT & PHL and potentially takes on more NE flying in DC and NYC with CRJ equipment.
Envoy continues to be the primary regional lift in DFW and ORD with Embraer equipment: 175s, 145s, and 140s and also expanding in their MIA base and potentially reopening the LAX base.
Wholly-owned regionals will make up the bulk of regional flying and each hub will have a wholly owned regional carrier with the bulk of the flying, optimizing spare availability and redundancy.

Skywest will fly primarily CRJ-700s in PHX LAX, and ORD, as they do today, potentially with some CRJ-200s remaining in ORD. I almost guarantee the EV CR7s end up at OO the same way the EV CR2s did.
Mesa is having staffing issues with the -900s in PHX and DFW but assuming they can continue to provide lift they will be part of the equation.
Republic has the bulk of E75 flying in the east coast, subject to staffing availability.
Compass - I think like many others that when their contact expires in 2020, those jets will go to Envoy.


The only part I think will change is OO being in DFW rather than ORD. The plan before was for PSA to open a crew base in ORD and staff the CR7s out of there. With the additional 900s for back east along with eventually getting all of the MQ 700s over there, I think OO will go back to its better performing side of the country as well as a new base in DFW to support the new CR7s. Its a key point to note, LAX & PHX are the two hubs without a wholly-owned and with Mesa being unable to support DFW, there isn't enough Envoy to go around to open an LAX base currently. Once the Compass contract is up, I think those birds may come back to Envoy but being able to flow those 20 planes though ORD and DFW makes a crew base almost unnecessary as the crews can change out in outstations. I'm also not sold on PSA retiring all of their CR2s as the fleet plan calls for 35 to remain which is more than just OO.

JFK/LGA - YX E75 & PT ER4 (MQ LGA base is only temporary)
PHL - YX E75, OH CR7/CR9, PT ER4
DCA, YX E75, OH CR7/CR9, PT ER4
CLT YX E75, OH CR2/CR7/CR9, PT ER4
MIA YX E75, MQ E75/ER4
DFW MQ E75/ER4, YV CR9, OO CR7
ORD MQ E75/ER4, OH CR7/CR9, OO CR2 (pro-rate)
PHX OO CR7/CR2, YV CR9
LAX OO CR7, CP/MQ E75
Manager on Duty & Tower Planner
 
airtran737
Posts: 3300
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 4:06 pm

Robert Isom recently said the fleet plan is as follows;

PSA 150 airplanes
PDT 56 airplanes
ENY 200 airplanes

At the end of 2019 Envoy will be at 180 airplanes. 20 more airframes seems to hint than Compass is the next one out, especially based on his quote of “So we've got a great set of wholly owneds. I would really like to see us over the long run then combine that with a few carriers of critical mass, that meet standards in terms of quality.."
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
as739x
Posts: 5076
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 4:20 pm

mhkansan wrote:


Compass - I think like many others that when their contact expires in 2020, those jets will go to Envoy.

.


With Envoys staffing issues? I'll believe it when I see it!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
airtran737
Posts: 3300
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 6:25 pm

as739x wrote:
mhkansan wrote:


Compass - I think like many others that when their contract expires in 2020, those jets will go to Envoy.

.


With Envoys staffing issues? I'll believe it when I see it!!


Envoy isn't having any staffing issues. There was potential for it, but it has been avoided. I am looking at the coverage now. The mothership adjusted the flying and Envoy is fine. With the new LOA that was agreed to last week, there will be captains sooner at Envoy (now 950 hours), it is mandatory to upgrade to flow, if you take LGA you get three months of business passes and unlimited commuter hotels, and captain pay from the moment of it being awarded. Envoy will handle whatever is thrown at them. Those 175's never should have been at Compass and were nothing but a message that was sent to the Eagle pilot group. Isom said they want regional partners of "sizeable mass" and that is not Compass for AA. 20 airplanes is not sizeable mass.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2160
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 9:05 pm

airtran737 wrote:
The mothership


I got a good chuckle when I read this
 
flightsimer
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:34 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 9:50 pm

airtran737 wrote:
as739x wrote:
mhkansan wrote:


With Envoys staffing issues? I'll believe it when I see it!!


Envoy isn't having any staffing issues. There was potential for it, but it has been avoided. I am looking at the coverage now. The mothership adjusted the flying and Envoy is fine. With the new LOA that was agreed to last week, there will be captains sooner at Envoy (now 950 hours), it is mandatory to upgrade to flow, if you take LGA you get three months of business passes and unlimited commuter hotels, and captain pay from the moment of it being awarded. Envoy will handle whatever is thrown at them. Those 175's never should have been at Compass and were nothing but a message that was sent to the Eagle pilot group. Isom said they want regional partners of "sizeable mass" and that is not Compass for AA. 20 airplanes is not sizeable mass.

The 20 planes at compass were not ordered for Envoy. When AA placed the order they had no clue who was going to operate them, they could have come to republic if we weren't in our own staffing crisis at the time, after all we were the first Eagle 175 operator. Go read any news article on the order and you will see that. If compass is bought by Republic which is still rumored but having hit some snags, those planes will still be at a company with critical mass.

The only Airline that is forcing First officers or new hires that have the 1000 hours to upgrade is... you guessed it... Envoy and PSA (somewhat). If your too naive to see that is a staffing issue, well then enjoy this summer when you guys go into meltdown mode. Even with everything being offered, I would not lateral to Envoy, EVER.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
airtran737
Posts: 3300
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Thu May 17, 2018 10:56 pm

flightsimer wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
as739x wrote:

With Envoys staffing issues? I'll believe it when I see it!!


Envoy isn't having any staffing issues. There was potential for it, but it has been avoided. I am looking at the coverage now. The mothership adjusted the flying and Envoy is fine. With the new LOA that was agreed to last week, there will be captains sooner at Envoy (now 950 hours), it is mandatory to upgrade to flow, if you take LGA you get three months of business passes and unlimited commuter hotels, and captain pay from the moment of it being awarded. Envoy will handle whatever is thrown at them. Those 175's never should have been at Compass and were nothing but a message that was sent to the Eagle pilot group. Isom said they want regional partners of "sizeable mass" and that is not Compass for AA. 20 airplanes is not sizeable mass.

The 20 planes at compass were not ordered for Envoy. When AA placed the order they had no clue who was going to operate them, they could have come to republic if we weren't in our own staffing crisis at the time, after all we were the first Eagle 175 operator. Go read any news article on the order and you will see that. If compass is bought by Republic which is still rumored but having hit some snags, those planes will still be at a company with critical mass.

The only Airline that is forcing First officers or new hires that have the 1000 hours to upgrade is... you guessed it... Envoy and PSA (somewhat). If your too naive to see that is a staffing issue, well then enjoy this summer when you guys go into meltdown mode. Even with everything being offered, I would not lateral to Envoy, EVER.


Those airplanes were intended for MQ and were taken away because the pilots wouldn’t give into the demands by management. That’s an absolute fact. As for me, I don’t want to see them at Envoy. Every additional plane we have to crew is a reason for management to try and say that they can meter flow. As for Republic buying TSH, I’m sure it’s happening, and it goes to show just how BS their bankruptcy was and that needing to simply their fleet was bull. I suppose if you want to get technical, Republic isn’t buying anything, AA, DL, UA, and Embraer would be doing the buying.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
jgcotter
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: American Eagle's plan for the future.

Tue May 22, 2018 6:38 pm

E145 N907AE is en route from MQT to RIC for transfer from Envoy to Piedmont. 45 x E145 on property now at Piedmont.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N907AE

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