MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:02 am

According to employees at CCS, COPA will withdraw from Venezuela in the few coming days.

http://www.el-nacional.com/noticias/eco ... cas_197476

Article also says that:
1) Rutaca may be revived and start flights from CCS to Puerto Ordaz, Porlamar and Barcelona (Venezuela).
2) Conviasa's domstic network is operated by a single aircraft (E190), being CCS to Maracaibo, Barquisimeto and Las Piedras.
3) Aeropostal's single domestic route, CCS-PMV (Porlamar) is operated by their single operational aircraft (MD80). If so, then this is their only flight, period, since they also operated MAR-PTY twice a week after operating CCS-MAR, with their only aircraft.

I was under the impression that Conviasa operated more domestic flights than this, but information is hard to come by. They cronically don't pick up the phone, and the information on their website is outdated. I haven't been to CCS (the airport) for the last few days, which is where my sources are.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:35 am

if Copa pulls out - which could be very much likley - I think CCS has a big issue! asume that as well MAR and VLN would be suspended?

Cheers
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:40 am

just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone

CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:46 am

Avianca wrote:
if Copa pulls out - which could be very much likley - I think CCS has a big issue! asume that as well MAR and VLN would be suspended?

Cheers
Avianca

It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.

No details are known, the whole thing may be a rumour, but I take it for granted that if they leave CCS, then VLN and MAR will be discontinued as well, since the security situation is no better there, as yesterday's situation just outside Valencia clearly showed.
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1167
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:48 am

Well so far nothing changed in Sabre.

PTY-CCS
852am
1204pm
1159pm

The 1159pm has "subject to gvt approval" on it.
xx
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:48 am

Avianca wrote:
just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone

CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am

Horrible (very dangerous) hours to get to/from CCS from Caracas... I wouldn't take that flight, no matter how cheap it was...and cheap it is not...
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:52 am

I wonder if this would also include Wingo, owned by Copa Holdings. They currently fly BOG-CCS, the only airline left on that route, apart from a daily EQ flight UIO-BOG-CCS, since AV and V0 pulled out of that route.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:53 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone

CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am

Horrible (very dangerous) hours to get to/from CCS from Caracas... I wouldn't take that flight, no matter how cheap it was...and cheap it is not...


well the 640am departure was not much better - I think even worse - for 5am departure people might get down to MIQ before midnight...

have used the 1am arrival and 640am dozen of times ... but I have to recognize that the last 2 years always with a bodyguard with me... this is just creazy.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:55 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
I wonder if this would also include Wingo, owned by Copa Holdings. They currently fly BOG-CCS, the only airline left on that route, apart from a daily EQ flight UIO-BOG-CCS, since AV and V0 pulled out of that route.


if they leave they will shut down by complete.

well if CM leaves - I am really wondering how to get out without buying seperate tickets to PTY / AUA / CUR on the Venezulean carrier and than with new one...

AA - for sure is hell of expensive...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2502
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:55 am

Apparently, the rumors have some validity. Some COPA employees in Panama have been given warning that it is eminent that COPA will suspend service to Venezuela any moment. The risk of operating into CCS is too great to continue operations. The country is about to completely collapse. Dear God!
Last edited by LatinPlane on Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:57 am

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone

CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am

Horrible (very dangerous) hours to get to/from CCS from Caracas... I wouldn't take that flight, no matter how cheap it was...and cheap it is not...


well the 640am departure was not much better - I think even worse - for 5am departure people might get down to MIQ before midnight...

have used the 1am arrival and 640am dozen of times ... but I have to recognize that the last 2 years always with a bodyguard with me... this is just creazy.

No way would I get down to CCS before midnight. Much better to stay at a hotel near the airport from the day before and get down there before 6pm...
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:59 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Horrible (very dangerous) hours to get to/from CCS from Caracas... I wouldn't take that flight, no matter how cheap it was...and cheap it is not...


well the 640am departure was not much better - I think even worse - for 5am departure people might get down to MIQ before midnight...

have used the 1am arrival and 640am dozen of times ... but I have to recognize that the last 2 years always with a bodyguard with me... this is just creazy.

No way would I get down to CCS before midnight. Much better to stay at a hotel near the airport from the day before and get down there before 6pm...


agree in certain way... área were Eurobuilding and Marriott are located are not safe at all, specially going from Catia La Mar to the airport ... I dont know...

it is really unbelivable what is happening in my lovely Venezuela!
Last edited by Avianca on Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:59 am

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
I wonder if this would also include Wingo, owned by Copa Holdings. They currently fly BOG-CCS, the only airline left on that route, apart from a daily EQ flight UIO-BOG-CCS, since AV and V0 pulled out of that route.


if they leave they will shut down by complete.

well if CM leaves - I am really wondering how to get out without buying seperate tickets to PTY / AUA / CUR on the Venezulean carrier and than with new one...

AA - for sure is hell of expensive...

Exactly, that is the solution. But paradoxically, it may even turn out to be cheaper than the fares AV, CM et al. are/have been charging out of CCS.
Oh, and 9V (Avior) still fly to MDE, BOG, GYE, LIM and MAO from Valencia/Barcelona (both in Venezuela).
Last edited by MalevTU134 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:01 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
I wonder if this would also include Wingo, owned by Copa Holdings. They currently fly BOG-CCS, the only airline left on that route, apart from a daily EQ flight UIO-BOG-CCS, since AV and V0 pulled out of that route.


if they leave they will shut down by complete.

well if CM leaves - I am really wondering how to get out without buying seperate tickets to PTY / AUA / CUR on the Venezulean carrier and than with new one...

AA - for sure is hell of expensive...

Exactly, that is the solution. But paradoxically, it may even turn out to be cheaper than the fares AV, CM et al. are/have been charging out of CCS.


maybe cheaper - but the risk to not get your connection etc... well how times changed.... can well remember using LH First Class to DXB for around 1000 USD... around 3 years ago.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
chrisp390
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:01 am

If the reason is the risk is too high, then should we expect AA to be cutting their operations any day now too?
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:09 am

chrisp390 wrote:
If the reason is the risk is too high, then should we expect AA to be cutting their operations any day now too?

As I said in another thread, it's interesting to see how the European carriers are the ones with the biggest b*lls of steel. Or the ones making the most balanced judgement, maybe? Depending on one's own valuation of the situation. As dcajet pointed out in response to that (in the other thread), those airlines are often used to fly to "risky" places elsewhere, like Mogadishu, Bangui, Luanda, Kinshasa, Baghdad, some of which make CCS seem...well, not so bad.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:14 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
If the reason is the risk is too high, then should we expect AA to be cutting their operations any day now too?

As I said in another thread, it's interesting to see how the European carriers are the ones with the biggest b*lls of steel. Or the ones making the most balanced judgement, maybe? Depending on one's own valuation of the situation. As dcajet pointed out in response to that (in the other thread), those airlines are often used to fly to "risky" places elsewhere, like Mogadishu, Bangui, Luanda, Kinshasa, Baghdad, some of which make CCS seem...well, not so bad.


well for me the last "Euro" carrier who will stay is Turkish ... the other ones soon to be gone.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:19 am

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:

if they leave they will shut down by complete.

well if CM leaves - I am really wondering how to get out without buying seperate tickets to PTY / AUA / CUR on the Venezulean carrier and than with new one...

AA - for sure is hell of expensive...

Exactly, that is the solution. But paradoxically, it may even turn out to be cheaper than the fares AV, CM et al. are/have been charging out of CCS.


maybe cheaper - but the risk to not get your connection etc... well how times changed.... can well remember using LH First Class to DXB for around 1000 USD... around 3 years ago.

Absolutely, but the other option is 6 days on a bus (to Buenos Aires for example), so to leave a day for a safe connection is well worth the hassle.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:25 am

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
chrisp390 wrote:
If the reason is the risk is too high, then should we expect AA to be cutting their operations any day now too?

As I said in another thread, it's interesting to see how the European carriers are the ones with the biggest b*lls of steel. Or the ones making the most balanced judgement, maybe? Depending on one's own valuation of the situation. As dcajet pointed out in response to that (in the other thread), those airlines are often used to fly to "risky" places elsewhere, like Mogadishu, Bangui, Luanda, Kinshasa, Baghdad, some of which make CCS seem...well, not so bad.


well for me the last "Euro" carrier who will stay is Turkish ... the other ones soon to be gone.

I think it is anybody's guess right now. Financially, TK is the one making poor business at CCS, as far as I can tell. Loads are bad and yields are just now picking up somewhat. But maybe they are less risk aversive than the rest? And neither IB nor TP crews are overnighting in CCS anymore, so the risk is purely operational (as stated by AV when they left). Without having a clue, really, I can't imagine CCS's standards being poorer than those at Mogadishu or Bangui...
I'm expecting UX to either pull out or make it a triangle route to have crews overnight elsewhere.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:30 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
As I said in another thread, it's interesting to see how the European carriers are the ones with the biggest b*lls of steel. Or the ones making the most balanced judgement, maybe? Depending on one's own valuation of the situation. As dcajet pointed out in response to that (in the other thread), those airlines are often used to fly to "risky" places elsewhere, like Mogadishu, Bangui, Luanda, Kinshasa, Baghdad, some of which make CCS seem...well, not so bad.


well for me the last "Euro" carrier who will stay is Turkish ... the other ones soon to be gone.

I think it is anybody's guess right now. Financially, TK is the one making poor business at CCS, as far as I can tell. Loads are bad and yields are just now picking up somewhat. But maybe they are less risk aversive than the rest? And neither IB nor TP crews are overnighting in CCS anymore, so the risk is purely operational (as stated by AV when they left). Without having a clue, really, I can't imagine CCS's standards being poorer than those at Mogadishu or Bangui...
I'm expecting UX to either pull out or make it a triangle route to have crews overnight elsewhere.


well AV of course was as well politicaly pushed! IB and TP will soon pull the plug in my opinion, wondering about AF (they could stop on the french islands?) and UX?

took the TK flight in January and flight was full - but 90% ex HAV - think 25 pax boarded in CCS ..... once more "euro" carrier are gone, this will be the only choice and they will doing quite good I think
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:36 am

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:

well for me the last "Euro" carrier who will stay is Turkish ... the other ones soon to be gone.

I think it is anybody's guess right now. Financially, TK is the one making poor business at CCS, as far as I can tell. Loads are bad and yields are just now picking up somewhat. But maybe they are less risk aversive than the rest? And neither IB nor TP crews are overnighting in CCS anymore, so the risk is purely operational (as stated by AV when they left). Without having a clue, really, I can't imagine CCS's standards being poorer than those at Mogadishu or Bangui...
I'm expecting UX to either pull out or make it a triangle route to have crews overnight elsewhere.


well AV of course was as well politicaly pushed! IB and TP will soon pull the plug in my opinion, wondering about AF (they could stop on the french islands?) and UX?

took the TK flight in January and flight was full - but 90% ex HAV - think 25 pax boarded in CCS ..... once more "euro" carrier are gone, this will be the only choice and they will doing quite good I think

Yes, I have the same experience with TK, 70% full flights, but only 46 and 39 pax respectively, boarding at CCS, and both times, I was the only one in J.

AF stop could also be CAY...or if they are clever, maybe BON or CUR. KL must have all the contracts there in place, I guess?
 
OGLOBAL
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:21 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
I think it is anybody's guess right now. Financially, TK is the one making poor business at CCS, as far as I can tell. Loads are bad and yields are just now picking up somewhat. But maybe they are less risk aversive than the rest? And neither IB nor TP crews are overnighting in CCS anymore, so the risk is purely operational (as stated by AV when they left). Without having a clue, really, I can't imagine CCS's standards being poorer than those at Mogadishu or Bangui...
I'm expecting UX to either pull out or make it a triangle route to have crews overnight elsewhere.


well AV of course was as well politicaly pushed! IB and TP will soon pull the plug in my opinion, wondering about AF (they could stop on the french islands?) and UX?

took the TK flight in January and flight was full - but 90% ex HAV - think 25 pax boarded in CCS ..... once more "euro" carrier are gone, this will be the only choice and they will doing quite good I think

Yes, I have the same experience with TK, 70% full flights, but only 46 and 39 pax respectively, boarding at CCS, and both times, I was the only one in J.

AF stop could also be CAY...or if they are clever, maybe BON or CUR. KL must have all the contracts there in place, I guess?


i am not very familiar but can't they operate via let's say cucuta ? you've mentioned 6 days bus ride to buenos aires wouldn't it be easier to take the bus to cucuta and fly from there ? or are the borders closed ?
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:24 am

Doesnt surprise me at all, the way things are going in Venezuela, we should pray for our hermanos there.

All the international airlines are little by little leaving.

On the other hand, according to Wikipedia, Rutaca's still flying...(Im a Wikipedia member 15 years now so I trust WP, maybe this is just an oversifht on our part)
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:27 am

OGLOBAL wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:

well AV of course was as well politicaly pushed! IB and TP will soon pull the plug in my opinion, wondering about AF (they could stop on the french islands?) and UX?

took the TK flight in January and flight was full - but 90% ex HAV - think 25 pax boarded in CCS ..... once more "euro" carrier are gone, this will be the only choice and they will doing quite good I think

Yes, I have the same experience with TK, 70% full flights, but only 46 and 39 pax respectively, boarding at CCS, and both times, I was the only one in J.

AF stop could also be CAY...or if they are clever, maybe BON or CUR. KL must have all the contracts there in place, I guess?


i am not very familiar but can't they operate via let's say cucuta ? you've mentioned 6 days bus ride to buenos aires wouldn't it be easier to take the bus to cucuta and fly from there ? or are the borders closed ?

No, the border is open for pedestrian traffic only. Border to Brazil is open for vehicles, too. Cúcuta is an option, but flights from BOG are more plentiful and therefore cheaper.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 am

AntonioMartin wrote:
Doesnt surprise me at all, the way things are going in Venezuela, we should pray for our hermanos there.

All the international airlines are little by little leaving.

On the other hand, according to Wikipedia, Rutaca's still flying...(Im a Wikipedia member 15 years now so I trust WP, maybe this is just an oversifht on our part)

Sorry, 15 years or not, Wikipedia is wrong in this case. Rutaca is definitely not flying. I have walked/driven past their offices in both Barcelona, Caracas and San Cristóbal in the last few weeks, and all were closed. In fact, it was reported that the company was bankrupt, so I'm surprised they can be revived.
 
SonOfABeech
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:10 pm

Please don't do it :(
 
User avatar
diverdave
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:00 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:44 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.


:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:53 pm

diverdave wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.


:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?

Who's getting paid in Bolívares? Who's even selling tickets in Venezuela? Answer: nobody, for the last 2-3 years, except the local airlines. Venezuela IS a gold mine for most of the airlines that still fly there. Fares a crazy high, and since airlines have cut supply to match the dwindling demand, load factors are high. See some other recent treads on Venezuela, where I explained how airlines are selling tickets (or not) there. To put it mildly, your information is way off, or at least 3 years old.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:28 pm

Did IB actually resume flights this week? They were temporarily suspended for the constituyente protests and I'm not sure if they've actually sent any aircraft.

I've got the impression that the situation is dangerously close to war.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:33 pm

diverdave wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.


:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?


well CCS-PTY-CCS charged 1000 USD is not bad at all I would say, connecting flights to CL / AR example mínimum at 1500 USD...
as per my understanding loads are quite good right now.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:49 pm

Avianca wrote:
diverdave wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.


:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?


well CCS-PTY-CCS charged 1000 USD is not bad at all I would say, connecting flights to CL / AR example mínimum at 1500 USD...
as per my understanding loads are quite good right now.

Oh, absolutely, finding a seat on CM's flights from Venezuela to PTY is more difficult than finding a snowflake in hell.
 
dcajet
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:16 pm

As shocking as COPA's possible departure from Venezuela may sound to those of us comfortably living abroad, to the average Venezuelan, this is a non event. The majority of those that are leaving the country are doing it by land, sometimes enduring road trips of 7+ days to reach Argentina or Chile. According to official data from the Argentinian government, 3.6 residence permits are issued per hour to Venezuelan citizens, 86 per day and the numbers have increased 3-fold YoY.

https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/busca-v ... 4YXDW.html
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:36 pm

dcajet wrote:
As shocking as COPA's possible departure from Venezuela may sound to those of us comfortably living abroad, to the average Venezuelan, this is a non event. The majority of those that are leaving the country are doing it by land, sometimes enduring road trips of 7+ days to reach Argentina or Chile. According to official data from the Argentinian government, 3.6 residence permits are issued per hour to Venezuelan citizens, 86 per day and the numbers have increased 3-fold YoY.

https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/busca-v ... 4YXDW.html


their is still business to atend and people who are getting back and forth - so I see it quite shocking not to long ago I used the CM flights at least 1 x week
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
dcajet
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:46 pm

Avianca wrote:
dcajet wrote:
As shocking as COPA's possible departure from Venezuela may sound to those of us comfortably living abroad, to the average Venezuelan, this is a non event. The majority of those that are leaving the country are doing it by land, sometimes enduring road trips of 7+ days to reach Argentina or Chile. According to official data from the Argentinian government, 3.6 residence permits are issued per hour to Venezuelan citizens, 86 per day and the numbers have increased 3-fold YoY.

https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/busca-v ... 4YXDW.html


their is still business to atend and people who are getting back and forth - so I see it quite shocking not to long ago I used the CM flights at least 1 x week


Of course there is. But only for 20% of the country, and I am being generous. For the 80% living under the line of poverty or for those that survive on the US$15 minimum monthly wage, whether COPA comes or goes has almost zero transcendence.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:07 pm

dcajet wrote:
Avianca wrote:
dcajet wrote:
As shocking as COPA's possible departure from Venezuela may sound to those of us comfortably living abroad, to the average Venezuelan, this is a non event. The majority of those that are leaving the country are doing it by land, sometimes enduring road trips of 7+ days to reach Argentina or Chile. According to official data from the Argentinian government, 3.6 residence permits are issued per hour to Venezuelan citizens, 86 per day and the numbers have increased 3-fold YoY.

https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/busca-v ... 4YXDW.html


their is still business to atend and people who are getting back and forth - so I see it quite shocking not to long ago I used the CM flights at least 1 x week


Of course there is. But only for 20% of the country, and I am being generous. For the 80% living under the line of poverty or for those that survive on the US$15 minimum monthly wage, whether COPA comes or goes has almost zero transcendence.

What US $15 minimum wage? It's down to less than US $6 per month since the latest plummeting of the Bolívar last week. So yes, you are being generous with saying 20%. Nevertheless, CM flights go out full at stellar yields. One thing is for sure: should they pull out, it will not be for lack of profitability of the route. (I know you didn't suggest that either, just clarifying.)
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4738
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:08 pm

Honestly, air service is the LEAST of Venezuela's problems. The bulk of the country can barely afford to eat while it continues to be run by a crooked buffoon. Venezuela used to be a prosperous place and can be again, but they need a specific overhaul. Air service isnt going to do much about that.
It is what it is...
 
guyanam
Posts: 2530
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:57 pm

Avianca wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Avianca wrote:

it is really unbelivable what is happening in my lovely Venezuela!



I was there in 1988 and pretty much forecasted this outcome. There was way too much income inequality and the hotel staff had nothing nice to say about their virtual exclusion from the political process which they described as being in the hands of the "rich white people". I was just astounded at the poverty that I saw when one consider that it was then a rich country.

This is a lesson for wealthy elites. Exclude the poor and you set a recipe for a populist to take over. And now they have.
 
User avatar
diverdave
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:00 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:16 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
diverdave wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
It will be an even bigger gold mine for the majority of the (ever fewer) airlines that stay put, but for many travellers, the withdrawal of AV and CM, as well as that of AR, will be a disaster. The trip to whatever country in Latin America that they were going to emigrate to just becomes more complex. Not necessarily more expensive, but more complicated for sure.


:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?

Who's getting paid in Bolívares? Who's even selling tickets in Venezuela? Answer: nobody, for the last 2-3 years, except the local airlines. Venezuela IS a gold mine for most of the airlines that still fly there. Fares a crazy high, and since airlines have cut supply to match the dwindling demand, load factors are high. See some other recent treads on Venezuela, where I explained how airlines are selling tickets (or not) there. To put it mildly, your information is way off, or at least 3 years old.


If it were a gold mine why are airlines dropping service? That information's not at least 3 years old.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36414733

"Several airline companies have said that currency controls in Venezuela made it impossible for airlines to convert their earnings into dollars and send the money abroad. "


https://thepointsguy.com/2016/01/flights-from-venezuela-are-outrageously-expensive/

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-06-03/united-airlines-ends-flights-to-venezuela-further-isolating-country

"The International Air Transport Association said last year that $3.78 billion was owed to international airlines by Venezuelan authorities. A handful of airlines including Copa and Avianca - part of the Star Alliance network alongside United - as well as Air France and Iberia, continue to operate in the OPEC nation."
 
dcajet
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:30 pm

diverdave wrote:
If it were a gold mine why are airlines dropping service? That information's not at least 3 years old.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36414733

"Several airline companies have said that currency controls in Venezuela made it impossible for airlines to convert their earnings into dollars and send the money abroad. "


https://thepointsguy.com/2016/01/flights-from-venezuela-are-outrageously-expensive/

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-06-03/united-airlines-ends-flights-to-venezuela-further-isolating-country

"The International Air Transport Association said last year that $3.78 billion was owed to international airlines by Venezuelan authorities. A handful of airlines including Copa and Avianca - part of the Star Alliance network alongside United - as well as Air France and Iberia, continue to operate in the OPEC nation."


Well, the airlines that got their revenues trapped (stolen is a more precise term) in Venezuela, long stopped selling tickets or doing any financial transactions there, including things as trivial as ancillary fees. Any ticket that any foreign airline (there were a few exceptions) sold for passage from and to Venezuela was sold in hard currency and ticketed outside of Venezuela, effectively leaving out any Venezuelans that did not have a foreign issued credit card or bank account in another country. The money trapped in Venezuela has long been written off by the airlines. They will never see it again.

Some airlines like Alitalia, Air Canada or Lufthansa left the country back then, clearly unhappy with the economic situation, Other stayed, although the trickle exodus continued until now. The airlines that are leaving now don't do it out of a concern with revenues. Simply put, Venezuela is a dangerous place and operating in CCS has become a safety issue - that is what happened with AV, AR, DL and others that will, doubtless, follow soon.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Antarius
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:34 pm

diverdave wrote:
If it were a gold mine why are airlines dropping service? That information's not at least 3 years old.


As others have mentioned, the money stuck in Venezuela was written off by the airlines. All tickets are sold outside the country (and have been for a while), to ensure that the money didn't get taken again.

Despite the gold mine, the security and political situation in CCS is deteriorating rapidly. To some airlines, the additional profit isn't worth the risk and thats why they are dropping service.
2017 : SIN | HKG | LAX | DFW | HOU | IAH | MAF | LBB | DCA | IAD | ORD | BOS | DEN | LHR | MAD | HNL | ITO | OGG | PHX | DOH | JHB | KUL | DEL | BLR | CDG | ORY | NRT | CGK | BTH | ICN | INV | ABZ | LCY | LTN | SFO | PHL
 
Bald1983
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:51 pm

Every Airline should pull out of Caracas and the rest of Venezuela. The country is a wreck, you cannot withdraw money and I doubt it is possible to do much business there. Chavez and Maduro have taken a country that had a decent economy as well as problems, and made it into a train wreck. Unfortunately, full blown civil war is on the way.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:34 pm

diverdave wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
diverdave wrote:

:shock: Venezuela is hardly a gold mine. The country is running low on foreign exchange, which means it is almost out of hard currency. What's the point of flying folks out of Venezuela and getting paid in bolivars which cannot be spent anywhere else in the world, and are rapidly depreciating in value?

Who's getting paid in Bolívares? Who's even selling tickets in Venezuela? Answer: nobody, for the last 2-3 years, except the local airlines. Venezuela IS a gold mine for most of the airlines that still fly there. Fares a crazy high, and since airlines have cut supply to match the dwindling demand, load factors are high. See some other recent treads on Venezuela, where I explained how airlines are selling tickets (or not) there. To put it mildly, your information is way off, or at least 3 years old.


If it were a gold mine why are airlines dropping service? That information's not at least 3 years old.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-36414733

"Several airline companies have said that currency controls in Venezuela made it impossible for airlines to convert their earnings into dollars and send the money abroad. "


https://thepointsguy.com/2016/01/flights-from-venezuela-are-outrageously-expensive/

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-06-03/united-airlines-ends-flights-to-venezuela-further-isolating-country

"The International Air Transport Association said last year that $3.78 billion was owed to international airlines by Venezuelan authorities. A handful of airlines including Copa and Avianca - part of the Star Alliance network alongside United - as well as Air France and Iberia, continue to operate in the OPEC nation."

Please read the other venezuela-related threads. It has been explained there time and time again that those losses are historical, no foreign airline is losing money anymore due to the currency repatriation problems, and hasn't been losing for the last 3 years or so. Airlines leave Venezuela today for safety and political reasons, as well as due to heavily reduced demands to some markets.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2397
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:04 am

Avianca wrote:
just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone
CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am
While it's good the night stop is gone, those times may not be that attractive and for sure will force lots if not almost all passengers to spend the night at CCS hotels before the flight or wait until a descent hour to get into Caracas when arriving.
IMHO, it's most likely CM will modify the schedules again and fly thrice daily PTY CCS only daytime with no late night departure. Perhaps same with MAR, twice daily with no late night departure.
If CM does change the CCS and MAR flight departure times, look for some odd timed PTY-MIA-PTY too as MIA-CCS/MAR O/D demand will ask for that.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5313
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:09 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Avianca wrote:
just checked copa and they are bookable but the night stop is gone
CM-221 PTY-CCS now leaving PTY at midnight arriving in CCS at 326am, and CM-220 leaving CCS now at 5:01am instead of 640am
While it's good the night stop is gone, those times may not be that attractive and for sure will force lots if not almost all passengers to spend the night at CCS hotels before the flight or wait until a descent hour to get into Caracas when arriving.
IMHO, it's most likely CM will modify the schedules again and fly thrice daily PTY CCS only daytime with no late night departure. Perhaps same with MAR, twice daily with no late night departure.
If CM does change the CCS and MAR flight departure times, look for some odd timed PTY-MIA-PTY too as MIA-CCS/MAR O/D demand will ask for that.


well I think these night flights will make it due to connections, otherwise they will cancel this flight and go instead twice a day.
CM is trying to have their crews safe... pax will take what they get, its not that they have to much to choose from
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:33 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Doesnt surprise me at all, the way things are going in Venezuela, we should pray for our hermanos there.

All the international airlines are little by little leaving.

On the other hand, according to Wikipedia, Rutaca's still flying...(Im a Wikipedia member 15 years now so I trust WP, maybe this is just an oversifht on our part)

Sorry, 15 years or not, Wikipedia is wrong in this case. Rutaca is definitely not flying. I have walked/driven past their offices in both Barcelona, Caracas and San Cristóbal in the last few weeks, and all were closed. In fact, it was reported that the company was bankrupt, so I'm surprised they can be revived.

Thanks for the info, I will update it on Wikipedia ASAP.

And God bless the Venezuelan people, us Boricuas are praying for you with all our hearts. We love Venezuela as our hermanos in Hispanic race, and hope that God brings His holy hand there and takes out the bad guys.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Crew
Posts: 555
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:03 pm

Please keep this thread on topic which is CM withdrawing from Venezuela and not political situation in Venezuela. This is the civil aviation forum and not the right place to talk about politics in general.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:28 pm

SQ22 wrote:
Please keep this thread on topic which is CM withdrawing from Venezuela and not political situation in Venezuela. This is the civil aviation forum and not the right place to talk about politics in general.

While I agree in principle, the political situation is so intrinsically connected to this subject that moderators should have a somewhat higher ceiling for explanations of the situation - political, commercial and other - in Venezuela, so that the misconceptions of some posters can be addressed. It is barely possible to discuss anything related to Venezuela these days without mentioning politics. Some tolerance from the moderators will be appreciated and surely rewarded with an interesting aviation related discussion.
 
Planetalk
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:02 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
Please keep this thread on topic which is CM withdrawing from Venezuela and not political situation in Venezuela. This is the civil aviation forum and not the right place to talk about politics in general.

While I agree in principle, the political situation is so intrinsically connected to this subject that moderators should have a somewhat higher ceiling for explanations of the situation - political, commercial and other - in Venezuela, so that the misconceptions of some posters can be addressed. It is barely possible to discuss anything related to Venezuela these days without mentioning politics. Some tolerance from the moderators will be appreciated and surely rewarded with an interesting aviation related discussion.


Actually, I agree with the moderators. Mostly because most people commenting on the politics are just showing off their ignorance about the country and politics in general beyond a few catchphrases, and it really derails the thread. People are using it as an excuse to make ideological points rather than inform the discussion and as someone with close Venezeuelan friends, including my partner, I find it incredibly irritating to read such rot and people trying to score points.
 
MalevTU134
Topic Author
Posts: 813
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:25 pm

Planetalk wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
SQ22 wrote:
Please keep this thread on topic which is CM withdrawing from Venezuela and not political situation in Venezuela. This is the civil aviation forum and not the right place to talk about politics in general.

While I agree in principle, the political situation is so intrinsically connected to this subject that moderators should have a somewhat higher ceiling for explanations of the situation - political, commercial and other - in Venezuela, so that the misconceptions of some posters can be addressed. It is barely possible to discuss anything related to Venezuela these days without mentioning politics. Some tolerance from the moderators will be appreciated and surely rewarded with an interesting aviation related discussion.


Actually, I agree with the moderators. Mostly because most people commenting on the politics are just showing off their ignorance about the country and politics in general beyond a few catchphrases, and it really derails the thread. People are using it as an excuse to make ideological points rather than inform the discussion and as someone with close Venezeuelan friends, including my partner, I find it incredibly irritating to read such rot and people trying to score points.

Well, I am one of those trying to put those very people straight, not to.impose a certain political view on them, but rather to make them understand the real reasons airlines are pulling out of Venezuela, that the ability to repatriate funds has nothing to do with it, and so on. I think those borderline political comments do help these persons to understannd the Venezuelan scenario of today, relating to the airline industry and otherwise.

Anyhow...I was informed informally today that some CM employees in CCS are quietly looking for jobs, an almost impossible task in Venezuela today if they wish to stay in the airline industry. Lends some credibility to the rumour...
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:00 pm

Re: Rumour: COPA to withdraw from Venezuela

Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:49 pm

In addition, whether or not COPA ax their flights to Venezuela does not depend primarily on yields, occupation, number of business class seats sold per flight, amount of cargo revenue, etc (Airliners material and speciality). It depends on how well they deal with the almost daily obstacles and hazards associated with the political situation of the country, and if they succeed at not becoming the target of the beast´s anger.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos