jfk777
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BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:05 am

BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.
 
B747forever
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:36 am

Well not even BA themselves have all their flights in T5 with some short and long haul routes operating out of T3. If BA doesn't have spave at T5 for all their flights then why would they want to split their ops even more in order to accommodate other OW carriers? What would the gain be for BA and said OW carriers?
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TeamintheSky
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:13 am

jfk777 wrote:
BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.


With a new Cathay lounge, a quieter BA lounge, a new Qantas lounge coming, and a remodeled American lounge in the works, I prefer T3 over T5. I am a oneworld Emerald, so I will say the BA First entrance is great, but my flights always seem to be out of Piers B and C in T5, meaning I leave the lounge a good 40 to 50 minutes before the flight. I never need to leave that early from one of the T3 lounges.

Also, I just don't think they currently have the space at T5 for all of BA's flights, let alone having other oneworld airlines join. I find it more odd that Qatar and Malaysian (and maybe Sri Lankan?) are still over in T4, and that DL seems to have taken the space at T3 when all of the Star Alliance members moved to T2. It was a missed opportunity to consolidate all of oneworld in two terminals; however, I completely understand DL's motivation for moving given VS and T3 offering a more premium feel to T4.

Regards,

Team
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TR
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:58 am

There were talks a few years back about JAL moving to T5 as part of the SJB. However due to space constraints at T5 it never materialized and I doubt that we will see other OW carriers at T5.
 
skipness1E
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:15 am

BA don't relegate airlines to second rate facilities, that's a very dark spin. Pure clickbait
 
LupineChemist
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:35 am

Yeah, T3 is great.

I'll give you the check-in area feels a bit sub par compared to T5 and it's just kind of weird having it be at ground level. But all in all it's a good terminal.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:39 am

Is a D-pier ever planned at T5? That would make some room. Or extend the B-C piers to the full lenght.
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skipness1E
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:48 am

Extending B and C piers to full length doesn't add any more parking capacity so won't help. Any T5D is years away and would be closer to T3 than to T5.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:22 am

jfk777 wrote:
CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it.


The new Cathay Pacific lounges at T3 are better than any of the BA lounges in T5, excepting possibly the Concorde Room. The CX lounge food is better, there are way more options, and the lounge design is second to none.

Once QF open their lounge in T3 it will also be fantastic which makes T3 the place to be for oneworld frequent flyers. I hear AA are going to renovate their International First Lounge in the future too, which will make all the oneworld T3 facilities excellent.

T5 is extremely crowded all the time and the reason no other airlines from oneworld operate there is that BA can't even operate all their own flights from T5 which was the original intention.
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vhtje
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:45 am

jfk777 wrote:
BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.


BA is not "stingy" or "selfish" with its use of T5 - if BA could have all its oneworld partners in one terminal, and thus offer more seamless transfers for oneworld passengers, it certainly would. It does not, because it cannot: it cannot even fit all of its own operations in T5, let alone all other oneworld partners' operations.

Believe me, I have sat often enough on the ground at T5 after arriving awaiting gate space to know that T5 is already running at or nearly at capacity, at least during peak times of the day.

As others have pointed out, the CX lounge is by no means second rate - in fact it is better than BA's T5 lounge, with better decor and better food. (Having said that, I do very much like the BA First lounge in T3 - a quiet, hidden gem of a lounge). I am looking forward to the new Qantas lounge opening in September the old SAS lounge space. It promises much: https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-london- ... er/october

There is no "shame on BA". If anything, the shame is on Heathrow for not extending the T5A/B/C Transit from T5C to T3, when it was being planned and built. THAT would be terrific, as it would offer easy airside transfers between T3 and T5.
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StTim
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:51 am

TeamintheSky wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.


With a new Cathay lounge, a quieter BA lounge, a new Qantas lounge coming, and a remodeled American lounge in the works, I prefer T3 over T5. I am a oneworld Emerald, so I will say the BA First entrance is great, but my flights always seem to be out of Piers B and C in T5, meaning I leave the lounge a good 40 to 50 minutes before the flight. I never need to leave that early from one of the T3 lounges.

Also, I just don't think they currently have the space at T5 for all of BA's flights, let alone having other oneworld airlines join. I find it more odd that Qatar and Malaysian (and maybe Sri Lankan?) are still over in T4, and that DL seems to have taken the space at T3 when all of the Star Alliance members moved to T2. It was a missed opportunity to consolidate all of oneworld in two terminals; however, I completely understand DL's motivation for moving given VS and T3 offering a more premium feel to T4.

Regards,

Team


There is a lounge in T5B which I go to if my flight departs from there. Quieter than the ones in the main T5.

Anyhow to the point - As others point out T5 is full and BA do not depart all their flights from there.
 
davies2911
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:43 am

Is this post for Real? It's a well established fact BA don't have room for themselves at T5. What a petty and ignorant opening post.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:51 pm

davies2911 wrote:
Is this post for Real? It's a well established fact BA don't have room for themselves at T5. What a petty and ignorant opening post.

:checkmark: couldn't agree more!
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:15 pm

FlyRow wrote:
Is a D-pier ever planned at T5? That would make some room. Or extend the B-C piers to the full lenght.


All parking around where T5D would be, is already in use.... would gain no additional parking spaces for aircraft.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:40 pm

jfk777 wrote:
BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.


I might be new to posting, but have perused this forum for years. This has to be a joke posting just for kicks or to get everyone in an uproar?? lol

T5 is full. Common knowledge

T3 actually offers a very good premium experience, that is being improved upon all the time.

THE END!!
BA JM EA GK QH PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL QQ UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR PG MH AK CX U2 EK 9W 6E UK G8 TP VY VN PC LO OK

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 332 333 342 343 380
 
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TedToToe
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:32 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Extending B and C piers to full length doesn't add any more parking capacity so won't help.

It would add airbridges to stands that otherwise require passengers to be bussed to and from the aircraft. In doing so, wouldn't that reduce turnaround times and, therefore, increase capacity?
 
Cunard
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:25 pm

davies2911 wrote:
Is this post for Real? It's a well established fact BA don't have room for themselves at T5. What a petty and ignorant opening post.


I'm with Geordielad and I am totally with you on this, a really pathetic and ignorant post!
 
I39OO
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:58 pm

jfk777 wrote:
BA loves to use other OW or common One World facilities at airports but doesn't allow one One World airline to use its Terminal 5 and facilities like the Concorde lounge at London Heathrow, only sister Iberia. At Tokyo's Haneda it uses all the JAL facilities but relegates JAL's one daily 777 to old terminal 3 at LHR. Why not let JAL use the "best" BA LHR facilities instead of the second rate Terminal 3 ones ? In Hong Kong BA passengers can use all the fabulous Cathay lounges but relegates Cathay to Termnal 3 at LHR, CX does have a nice lounge now at LHR but its not Terminal 5 now is it. IS BA really scared of five Cathay flights or one daily JAL not to let them share T5 ? Why is BA so stingy with the fellow OW airlines, even AA is a T3 airline. Shame on BA for keeping LHR's best for their selfish self.


Besides lack of space (stand utilisation in T5 is >95%, so you could fit JL's one, soon to be two-a-day departures, but definitely not CX, with their long layovers, or AA) there are, or rather were (I had directly knowledge of the thing having worked on it, but it's old material now, at least 3/4 years old) a number of issues preventing another OW carrier from coming into T5.

The first one was that these flights had to be BA mainline numbered, so with a BA 3-digit number (BA001-BA999), or the legacy DCS system wouldn't have seen them. DCS - built in-house in the 70s - recognised at T5 flights international flights with 3 digits, domestics with 4 starting with 1 and then special 9-thousand flights (engineering, positioning etc). Anything else couldn't be seen, and if you couldn't see it then you couldn't check-in, board, do weight & balance, depart them and, I believe, even allocate stands and ground staff to it. So the other airlines had to "give up" their flights and make them become BA flights. IB, back in the day, had to "give up" their flights, which got BA5XX codes, and became codeshares with IB. Paradoxically, BA staff had higher priority on those IB flights than IB's. For JAL, this was a big no-no. I've since moved on, but I believe this limitation is still there, the IB flights still have 5XX codes out of LHR, whilst into LHR they have their proper IB primary code and BA7XXX codeshare.

Another issue is that, by union agreement, only BA staff can be employed and used as ground staff in T5. Handlers like Dnata, Menzies, Swissport aren't allowed to operate in T5, and that could potentially limit the appeal of moving into T5.
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BrianDromey
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:19 pm

I39OO wrote:
The first one was that these flights had to be BA mainline numbered, so with a BA 3-digit number (BA001-BA999), or the legacy DCS system wouldn't have seen them. DCS - built in-house in the 70s - recognised at T5 flights international flights with 3 digits, domestics with 4 starting with 1 and then special 9-thousand flights (engineering, positioning etc). Anything else couldn't be seen, and if you couldn't see it then you couldn't check-in, board, do weight & balance, depart them and, I believe, even allocate stands and ground staff to it. So the other airlines had to "give up" their flights and make them become BA flights. IB, back in the day, had to "give up" their flights, which got BA5XX codes, and became codeshares with IB. Paradoxically, BA staff had higher priority on those IB flights than IB's. For JAL, this was a big no-no. I've since moved on, but I believe this limitation is still there, the IB flights still have 5XX codes out of LHR, whilst into LHR they have their proper IB primary code and BA7XXX codeshare.

Thanks for an excellent post. I wasn't aware of the union agreements at T5.
You are probably aware that BA has moved to Amadeus/Altea DCS now, which it has branded "FLY". The cutover want the smoothest - there are multiple threads elsewhere, of course. I would be surprised if this limitation still applied under FLY - although with BA nothing surprises. I believe another restriction is that T5 has been set up to be 100% containerised, so non-container equipped A32x and all 737s would be a problem for T5.
 
evanb
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:03 am

BrianDromey wrote:
I believe another restriction is that T5 has been set up to be 100% containerised, so non-container equipped A32x and all 737s would be a problem for T5.


BA used chartered B737s from Jettime at T5 in the last year which required non-containerized baggage.,
 
Ph1l1p
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:47 am

It as pain with non containerised aircraft, as the bags have to be loaded into baggage containers then they have to be unloaded at the aircraft and manually placed into the hold. It just takes longer for the turnaround, the wet leased Qatar Aircraft have longer turnaround times than BA aircraft. The JetTime aircraft used last summer also couldn't use contact stands as the 737 is too low for the jetbridges to attach, so they were always on remote stands.
 
skipness1E
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:23 am

The 737 was too low for the airbridges??? What?? How much lower is it than the A320 series? It's not like one heads markedly downhill when boarding!

Not sure T5 is at 95% of capacity across 0600-2300? There's a lot of open gates I find after 5pm once the majority of west bound long haul has gone, but that wouldn't help AA, JL or even CX.
 
theginge
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:01 am

I39OO wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Another issue is that, by union agreement, only BA staff can be employed and used as ground staff in T5. Handlers like Dnata, Menzies, Swissport aren't allowed to operate in T5, and that could potentially limit the appeal of moving into T5.


Is this really the case? Heathrow Airport own the Terminal so if they deemed they could fit another airline inT5 I would be surprised if they insisted they use BA handling.
 
Andy33
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:30 am

theginge wrote:
I39OO wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Another issue is that, by union agreement, only BA staff can be employed and used as ground staff in T5. Handlers like Dnata, Menzies, Swissport aren't allowed to operate in T5, and that could potentially limit the appeal of moving into T5.


Is this really the case? Heathrow Airport own the Terminal so if they deemed they could fit another airline inT5 I would be surprised if they insisted they use BA handling.


Heathrow Airport Ltd own the terminal, true. But the agreement under which British Airways use it is very different from that applied to airlines (including BA) at other terminals. For example gate allocation at T5 is done by BA staff, at the other terminals by HAL - that would make it rather difficult for HAL to insist another airline used T5 gates against BA's wishes. As BA is also by far HAL's biggest customer (over 50% of all flights are BA) things work much better if neither BA nor HAL take actions calculated to annoy the other.
 
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par13del
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:56 am

My question pre-dates the current space issue, when BA was looking at moving some of its operations into the new terminal - T5 - was any thought given to moving any partners with them to allow easy transfers?. Since all of BA operations could not fit in T5 I am only asking about certain partner flights, no entire operations, as LHR does not have US pre-clearance some AA flights would have made sense as they have been close partners even prior to their full JV.
 
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Aisak
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:58 pm

par13del wrote:
My question pre-dates the current space issue, when BA was looking at moving some of its operations into the new terminal - T5 - was any thought given to moving any partners with them to allow easy transfers?.


Of course there was a careful planing... which partially went down the toilet due to the T5 opening fiasco.
The opening day (27.03.2008), T5 was supossed to operate all BA 320-Series at LHR flights, both domestic and international previously operated from T1 and T4. Flights to HKG, JNB, LAX, NRT, SFO, YVR from T1 and MIA from T3 also joined for the opening.

The bmed flights and aircraft were already bmi and GB Airways (I think only AGP and GIB from LHR) flights ceased and aircraft moved to easyjet.

The fleet of 757 heavily used on domestic flights was banned from T5 as BrianDromey well explains above because of the containerized baggage system. So they came up with a plan to only use them on MAD, BCN, NCE, LIS and HEL from T1 at first and later from T3, which was designated as the OW terminal by BAA. It is the closest terminal to T5 so it eases BA-BA and BA-OW connections.
Only AA, CX, JL and RJ were already housed at T3 so it took some time to become the home for OW.
Finnair from T1 and Iberia from T2 along wtih the BA 757 fleet (used to destinations shared with IB and AY) moved to T3 at the end of summer season.
The last OW flights moving to T3 where those covering the Kangaroo route JBA between BA and Qantas, after the rest of BA longhaul flights from T4 stagered moved to T5 over a period longer than a year.

par13del wrote:
close partners even prior to their full JV.

As beautifully explained by I39OO, only BA flights could depart from T5. It was not designed to be otherwise. Only BA check-in desks, BA ticket offices, BA self Check-in machines, BA handling....
Note that BA was the one locking itself out of T5 for JV flights. The BA-QF tie-up was actually the last to move out of T4, and its passengers lost the ability to see a BA Arrivals lounge in the terminal. That problem was addressed by using the AArivals Lounge.
Also MAD-LHR and BCN-LHR were already JV'ed from 2003 and they chose T3 for these flights. If I remember correctly all BA 757 flights from T3 were bussed from gate 24, so far from ideal for its own passengers.
 
tonystan
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:01 pm

I don't think the original poster of this thread quite understands how LHR, BA and OW works.

The BA Lounges in T5 although probably the largest lounge facilities in LHR are far from the best.

T5 is FULL

JAL chose themselves which terminal they use in cooperation with HAA (Heathrow Airport) so are therefore not relegated to something inferior by BA.

BA does not love sharing its facilities with fellow OW partners, it loves finding the best deal. If that happens to be a service provided by a OW carrier then great but if not they will seek cheaper alternatives elsewhere because sadly that's the way the airline works.

Strong rumour abounds IB are about to leave T5 or get a new handling agent in as it is unhappy with BAs handling of them since their move to T5.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
shuttle9juliet
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:15 pm

I have heard several rumours that BA will or have lost the ground handling contract for IB at T5, so this does leave the door open to a handler i.e. Menzies etc.
I think with all the goings on in the regions (2007) and LGW ramp more recently, Mr Cruz,Walsh plans are to most probably outsource ground handling LHR, no union has the balls to stop that now.
( it's a shame )
 
shuttle9juliet
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:16 pm

tonystan wrote:
I don't think the original poster of this thread quite understands how LHR, BA and OW works.

The BA Lounges in T5 although probably the largest lounge facilities in LHR are far from the best.

T5 is FULL

JAL chose themselves which terminal they use in cooperation with HAA (Heathrow Airport) so are therefore not relegated to something inferior by BA.

BA does not love sharing its facilities with fellow OW partners, it loves finding the best deal. If that happens to be a service provided by a OW carrier then great but if not they will seek cheaper alternatives elsewhere because sadly that's the way the airline works.

Strong rumour abounds IB are about to leave T5 or get a new handling agent in as it is unhappy with BAs handling of them since their move to T5.



Sorry tonystan beat me to the IB part!!!
 
shuttle9juliet
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Aisak wrote:
par13del wrote:
My question pre-dates the current space issue, when BA was looking at moving some of its operations into the new terminal - T5 - was any thought given to moving any partners with them to allow easy transfers?.


Of course there was a careful planing... which partially went down the toilet due to the T5 opening fiasco.
The opening day (27.03.2008), T5 was supossed to operate all BA 320-Series at LHR flights, both domestic and international previously operated from T1 and T4. Flights to HKG, JNB, LAX, NRT, SFO, YVR from T1 and MIA from T3 also joined for the opening.

The bmed flights and aircraft were already bmi and GB Airways (I think only AGP and GIB from LHR) flights ceased and aircraft moved to easyjet.

The fleet of 757 heavily used on domestic flights was banned from T5 as BrianDromey well explains above because of the containerized baggage system. So they came up with a plan to only use them on MAD, BCN, NCE, LIS and HEL from T1 at first and later from T3, which was designated as the OW terminal by BAA. It is the closest terminal to T5 so it eases BA-BA and BA-OW connections.
Only AA, CX, JL and RJ were already housed at T3 so it took some time to become the home for OW.
Finnair from T1 and Iberia from T2 along wtih the BA 757 fleet (used to destinations shared with IB and AY) moved to T3 at the end of summer season.
The last OW flights moving to T3 where those covering the Kangaroo route JBA between BA and Qantas, after the rest of BA longhaul flights from T4 stagered moved to T5 over a period longer than a year.

par13del wrote:
close partners even prior to their full JV.

As beautifully explained by I39OO, only BA flights could depart from T5. It was not designed to be otherwise. Only BA check-in desks, BA ticket offices, BA self Check-in machines, BA handling....
Note that BA was the one locking itself out of T5 for JV flights. The BA-QF tie-up was actually the last to move out of T4, and its passengers lost the ability to see a BA Arrivals lounge in the terminal. That problem was addressed by using the AArivals Lounge.
Also MAD-LHR and BCN-LHR were already JV'ed from 2003 and they chose T3 for these flights. If I remember correctly all BA 757 flights from T3 were bussed from gate 24, so far from ideal for its own passengers.


The 757s were not quite banned , but awkward as no bins.
The only difference was that 2 or 3 AKEs were loaded in the baggage hall as per norm with any flight, brought out to the stand and bulk loaded.
I operated 2 flights in 2009 and lastly 2010 (October :( last flight week) from T5
Regards
 
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Aisak
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Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:47 pm

TedToToe wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Extending B and C piers to full length doesn't add any more parking capacity so won't help.

It would add airbridges to stands that otherwise require passengers to be bussed to and from the aircraft. In doing so, wouldn't that reduce turnaround times and, therefore, increase capacity?

The airport is slot controlled and the runways are running at capacity. There is in fact some terminal room available. And there has to be, just in case something goes wrong with the rurways (read fog, winds, storm, snow...) and the whole airport is made run slower.
Remote stands or those who are off-pier stands have still to be processed through the main terminal building. Passengers have to check in, clear security, pass through the shopping mall, clear inmigration upon arrival; their luggage has to be processed, screened, sorted out, sent to and form the aircraft.... There is no unlimited capacity to do this from T5A, no matter how many satellite buildings, trains or jetways you build. There is no way you can process more than half of LHR capacity out of T5.

vhtje wrote:
As others have pointed out, the CX lounge is by no means second rate - in fact it is better than BA's T5 lounge, with better decor and better food. (Having said that, I do very much like the BA First lounge in T3 - a quiet, hidden gem of a lounge). I am looking forward to the new Qantas lounge opening in September the old SAS lounge space. It promises much: https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-london- ... er/october

This always amazes me. While alliances or even one-to-one agreements are made to leverage on a partner's resources abroad, yet Qantas wants to open a stand-alone lounge for their two only daily flights. They depart at 13.30 and 21.35 so well spaced over the day.
Qantas currently distributes its passengers and Qantas Club holders among Emirates, Cathay and BA Galleries lounges. This opening should simplify this setup and bring third-party accesses costs down, but it requires some CapEx and further OpEx to run your own lounge. I guess someone did the maths.

vhtje wrote:
There is no "shame on BA". If anything, the shame is on Heathrow for not extending the T5A/B/C Transit from T5C to T3, when it was being planned and built. THAT would be terrific, as it would offer easy airside transfers between T3 and T5.

Well, actually the shame is on GB rules at security screening. There are no "easy airside transfers"... hardly any airside transfers. No passenger coming from outside the UK (and Ireland for that matter) is considered secured and thus, they have to clear security again at LHR. It seems the armonised EU rules are too loose for them....There's nothing Heathrow can do about it.
Thankfully their inmigration policy is not as tight as the one in the US, and you can bypass inmigration while using the Heathrow Connection Centres for onward travel


shuttle9juliet wrote:
I have heard several rumours that BA will or have lost the ground handling contract for IB at T5, so this does leave the door open to a handler i.e. Menzies etc.

Maybe not. Maybe IB moved to T5 just because BA was selected as their handling agent and not the other way around.

shuttle9juliet wrote:
I think with all the goings on in the regions (2007) and LGW ramp more recently

Which is a shame as you say.... In Spain IB took quite the opposite direction. Handling is outsourced yes, but to a company called Iberia Handling (now trading as Iberia Airport Services) It handles airports where you hardly see (or at all) any IB coloured aircraft.
It's really a pity they couldn't do the same in Britain.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3750
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:59 pm

What's the beef with BA handling IB? The amount of transfers from US long haul to MAD made IB a natural T5 fit for feeding that as well as BA to South America over MAD. BA will outsource handling and screw over as many staff as they think they can. Cruz is classic Accenture cost cutting MBA one trick pony, serving his master, Willie Walsh.

BA outsourced below the wing at Gatters to Swissport which was calamitous then had to bring it back in house with a wholly owned subsidiary called GGS (Gatwick Ground Services), so got their old staff back doing the same job on cheaper contracts......

There's a lot more at LHR though and they would rightly strike. Would make current Mixed Fleet industrial action look like a walk in the park.
 
shuttle9juliet
Posts: 341
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:04 pm

skipness1E wrote:
What's the beef with BA handling IB? The amount of transfers from US long haul to MAD made IB a natural T5 fit for feeding that as well as BA to South America over MAD. BA will outsource handling and screw over as many staff as they think they can. Cruz is classic Accenture cost cutting MBA one trick pony, serving his master, Willie Walsh.

BA outsourced below the wing at Gatters to Swissport which was calamitous then had to bring it back in house with a wholly owned subsidiary called GGS (Gatwick Ground Services), so got their old staff back doing the same job on cheaper contracts......

There's a lot more at LHR though and they would rightly strike. Would make current Mixed Fleet industrial action look like a walk in the park.


I dunno Skipness? I don't think they would strike ? ( they should if matter arises) but people are too scared about their overtime etc etc, big houses, big cars etc etc.
They have learned to live out with their means if you know what I mean!
The unions ( unite, etc ) are useless when it comes to these situations now, the reps are far too cosy with management for their liking.

At least at BALPA ( for the time being) fight back.
That might change....

Regards :)
 
User avatar
Aisak
Posts: 582
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

Re: BA Terminal 5 and OW Partners

Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:02 pm

skipness1E wrote:
BA outsourced below the wing at Gatters to Swissport which was calamitous then had to bring it back in house with a wholly owned subsidiary called GGS (Gatwick Ground Services)


I think the main mess was not the Swissport outsoucing but the fact that Swissport decided to leave LGW (for whatever reason) and they basically sold the whole Gatwick operation to Aviator. And Aviator (for whatever reason) is not able to continue doing business at a profit and are in liquidation.

Out of the sudden, BA created a wholy-owned subsidiary for their gatwick ground services (pun intended) and their open positions were mostly covered by previous Aviator-Swissport-BA empolyees. Almost full circle. What a cheerful coincidence!

Even though CEOs and the likes tend to believe anything a consultancy firm tells them to do (via colourful PPT of course), maybe the spanish approach is not that bad right now.

Handling is seen as a cost by BA. An unavoidable cost, but a cost nevertheless... And it has to be as low as posible so BA profits (rev/cost) can go up with the same revenue.
BA executives would say... Staff is so expensive.... there are a lot of resources commited to a cost generating unit... blah blah blah, you know the drill.
Iberia could transform this cost generating unit into a revenue-driven Business Unit and even a stand-alone company like Iberia Airport Services (read Gatwick Ground Services to know where i'm heading).
Initially, the **same** cost for BA would come from the contract with the handling company (just like Gatwick case) and the employees will continue to be IAG/BA employees so no fuss to make. The handling company could serve more clients, being the obvious ones the IAG airlines et voilà... a profitable company that brings revenue to the group instead of taking money out to third-parties.
Quite similar to the Global Services subsidiary in Kracow but without the relocation part :white:
But logic is not always well seen in business.....

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