jplatts
Posts: 518
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:21 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
Southwest told The Columbus Dispatch in June at their 25th anniversary at CMH recognition that they'd run CMH-LGA if they had slots to give.


Southwest currently has 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and Southwest could drop one of its LGA-ATL nonstops and add nonstop service from EWR to ATL to free up a slot at LGA to use for CMH to LGA nonstop service.

In addition to adding nonstop service from CMH to LGA, Southwest could also add a 3rd nonstop from HOU to LGA and a 2nd nonstop from MCI to LGA if Southwest can get extra slots at LGA. Is there a way for Southwest to acquire extra slots for at least 3 additional daily nonstops from LGA? Could extra slots be created at LGA that would allow Southwest to do more flights out of LGA?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:50 pm

Well Southwest picked up C15 and C17 in BNA last summer, and supposedly they're supposed to get C13 and C14 from AA very soon. If that's the case, I think WN adding either OMA, PDX, IND, or even ABQ wouldn't hurt.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:58 pm

ADrum23 wrote:

2. Upgrade BNA-SEA to year-round



It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.
 
jplatts
Posts: 518
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:21 pm

Will Southwest add nonstop service from DAL to TUS? Dallas is the #1 destination from TUS according to BTS statistics (which can be found at https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1&Airport=TUS&Airport_Name=Tucson,%20AZ:%20Tucson%20International&carrier=FACTS), and the only airlines to serve TUS are Alaska, American, Delta, Southwest, and United. According to BTS statistics, there are 280,000 passengers per year that travel between TUS and DFW, and the demand might be there for Southwest to serve TUS nonstop from DAL since there is limited competition on the route and since only AA has nonstop service from DFW to TUS. Southwest would be able to provide connections from TUS through DAL to destinations in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, along with Southwest Airlines destinations in the Midwest, Southeast, and Northeast that have nonstop service from DAL if Southwest adds nonstop service to DAL from TUS.
 
ADrum23
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:46 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Well Southwest picked up C15 and C17 in BNA last summer, and supposedly they're supposed to get C13 and C14 from AA very soon. If that's the case, I think WN adding either OMA, PDX, IND, or even ABQ wouldn't hurt.


Why is AA giving up two gates? Do they not want to expand at all at BNA? I really wish they'd add a few more mainline flights.
 
ADrum23
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:47 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

2. Upgrade BNA-SEA to year-round



It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.


They'd compete with AS and DL, but yeah, I'm shocked this route isn't already year round.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:57 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

2. Upgrade BNA-SEA to year-round



It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.


They'd compete with AS and DL, but yeah, I'm shocked this route isn't already year round.


Why is it shocking? 2016 PDEW numbers BNA-SEA

Q1-153 PDEW
Q2-249 PDEW
Q3-265 PDEW
Q4-190 PDEW
 
Mexicana757
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:59 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Four things I'd like to see WN launch in this latest update

1. BNA-PDX (though I highly doubt they will). Someone needs to launch BNA-PDX soon.

2. Upgrade BNA-SEA to year-round

3. Some new international destinations from places other than HOU or FLL

4. Expanded service at CVG

I'd also like to them start service to HNL, but I know that is not happening until 2019 at the absolute earliest.


I would love to see them expand at CVG, but I still don't think they are doing too great.

I wonder if WN would consider dropping frequency on MDW and BWI, in exchange for another route or two. Frankly, I think that is their problem, trying to sell passengers 1-stop itineraries to Florida when DL/G4/F9 operate many direct flights for the same price or even cheaper is not going to work.

Why does WN have to sacrifice frequencies from either MDW or BWI to open a FL route? They have enough gate space to add new routes at CVG.
 
airliner371
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:27 pm

jplatts wrote:
Southwest currently has 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and Southwest could drop one of its LGA-ATL nonstops and add nonstop service from EWR to ATL to free up a slot at LGA to use for CMH to LGA nonstop service.

Not gonna happen. LGA-ATL is a major business market and if they want to be even remotely competitive they need at least 5x service, if not more.

jplatts wrote:
Is there a way for Southwest to acquire extra slots for at least 3 additional daily nonstops from LGA? Could extra slots be created at LGA that would allow Southwest to do more flights out of LGA?

Not cheaply or easily. And no.
Take a little time and enjoy the view.
 
phluser
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.


They'd compete with AS and DL, but yeah, I'm shocked this route isn't already year round.


Why is it shocking? 2016 PDEW numbers BNA-SEA

Q1-153 PDEW
Q2-249 PDEW
Q3-265 PDEW
Q4-190 PDEW


Southwest does hub style activity at BNA so it's not just the local PDEW that matters. Of course, Q1 is the hardest to make SEA fill as much, from eastern US originating itineries, and Southwest would have to steer traffic possibly from another hub style connecting point.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:44 pm

Mexicana757 wrote:
Why does WN have to sacrifice frequencies from either MDW or BWI to open a FL route? They have enough gate space to add new routes at CVG.

The LF's on these two routes have not been so great so far, so adding any new route would result in even less passengers going to MDW/BWI. These two routes are already crazy crowded. It probably would make sense for them to go down to 3-4x/MDW and 2x/BWI, while adding one Florida and one West Coast route.
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SANFan
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:00 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.


They'd compete with AS and DL, but yeah, I'm shocked this route isn't already year round.


Why is it shocking? 2016 PDEW numbers BNA-SEA
Q1-153 PDEW
Q2-249 PDEW
Q3-265 PDEW
Q4-190 PDEW

Oh come on now Midwest', muddling up the discussion with.... facts and numbers?! It's amazing to me just how few people here on A.net these days give a darn about details like exactly how many people actually travel between points A and B when declaring that "XXX-YYY needs nonstop service now"! Thanx for your efforts to actually support a sensible conclusion!

bb
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:20 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

It's slightly amazing how long this flight has been seasonal. You'd think it would have gone year-round a long time ago. Of course, there's a lot more competition on the route now.


They'd compete with AS and DL, but yeah, I'm shocked this route isn't already year round.


Why is it shocking? 2016 PDEW numbers BNA-SEA

Q1-153 PDEW
Q2-249 PDEW
Q3-265 PDEW
Q4-190 PDEW


Interestingly, DL looked at those same numbers and said "We're all in" beginning summer 2017.
 
flyfresno
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:08 am

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
In the meantime Alaska is becoming California's favorite airline. Connecting the dots throughout California - albeit they do not have a ton of frequency between LAX-SFO, OAK-BUR, etc, etc they do serve many more cities than WN in California and are very happy to connect the dots. The ole boys in Texas have their heads up their a$$es and think making employees go out and paint posters that say we love California make them the most liked in California. Open FAT, PSP at a minimum and give the California Rapid Rewards peeps what they want Hawaii - California's vacation destination.


People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html
 
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BMWdrvr75
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:41 am

wwtraveler99 wrote:
http://www.southwestairlinesinvestorrelations.com/~/media/Files/S/Southwest-IR/events/LUV_2Q17_Transcript.pdf

"Turning to our order book, we made just some tweaks to the order book. And in short, we added four pre-owned 700s."


I believe if you finish the quote they go on to say this will allow them to delay 4 800 deliveries to a later time. 2 800 max deliveries in 2021 and 2022. In all reality WN will not "add" 4 planes to the fleet only moving some around.


WW[/quote]
or the half carts one the -800 yep they sure are!!!!
We Make Flying Easy......Come fly the Silver Bird........Something Special in the Air......
 
whatusaid
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:14 am

flyfresno wrote:
BMWdrvr75 wrote:
In the meantime Alaska is becoming California's favorite airline. Connecting the dots throughout California - albeit they do not have a ton of frequency between LAX-SFO, OAK-BUR, etc, etc they do serve many more cities than WN in California and are very happy to connect the dots. The ole boys in Texas have their heads up their a$$es and think making employees go out and paint posters that say we love California make them the most liked in California. Open FAT, PSP at a minimum and give the California Rapid Rewards peeps what they want Hawaii - California's vacation destination.


People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html


FAT-LAS is a low yield, high LF market. G4 is slowly killing demand. What was once the #1 O&D market is fading and fading fast. The Bee story is truthful, that you're risking your vacation by flying Allegiant. That said, WN would likely do better connecting FAT to PHX or DEN for connecting traffic. While Frontier will be back by April on DEN, I'd expect they'll be gone by fall... WN, throw us something, anything - please.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:19 am

whatusaid wrote:
WN, throw us something, anything - please.


:lol:
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 582
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:20 am

BMWdrvr75 wrote:
wwtraveler99 wrote:
http://www.southwestairlinesinvestorrelations.com/~/media/Files/S/Southwest-IR/events/LUV_2Q17_Transcript.pdf

"Turning to our order book, we made just some tweaks to the order book. And in short, we added four pre-owned 700s."


I believe if you finish the quote they go on to say this will allow them to delay 4 800 deliveries to a later time. 2 800 max deliveries in 2021 and 2022. In all reality WN will not "add" 4 planes to the fleet only moving some around.


WW

or the half carts one the -800 yep they sure are!!!![/quote]

They are delaying 4 -800 OPTIONS, not firm orders. So they indeed are gaining additional net frames in the four -700 units that arrived early.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:22 am

It wouldn't be to wild of a guess to see WN add more international gateways from California.
I can see them easily adding SJD from SJC and SMF.
The second implementation of MEX slots opens in April 2018 I believe. I wouldn't be surprised to see WN add FLL-MEX and MEX-LAX.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 283
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:04 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
BMWdrvr75 wrote:
In the meantime Alaska is becoming California's favorite airline. Connecting the dots throughout California - albeit they do not have a ton of frequency between LAX-SFO, OAK-BUR, etc, etc they do serve many more cities than WN in California and are very happy to connect the dots. The ole boys in Texas have their heads up their a$$es and think making employees go out and paint posters that say we love California make them the most liked in California. Open FAT, PSP at a minimum and give the California Rapid Rewards peeps what they want Hawaii - California's vacation destination.


People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html


FAT-LAS is a low yield, high LF market. G4 is slowly killing demand. What was once the #1 O&D market is fading and fading fast. The Bee story is truthful, that you're risking your vacation by flying Allegiant. That said, WN would likely do better connecting FAT to PHX or DEN for connecting traffic. While Frontier will be back by April on DEN, I'd expect they'll be gone by fall... WN, throw us something, anything - please.


If I'm not mistaken, Southwest has more non-stop destinations from LAS than PHX. Yes, some are in CA and would generate very few connections from FAT, if any (SMF, SJC, OAK, etc), but it would likely be a better option than PHX, although I think PHX would still get at least 1X per day (still good O&D and a few extra markets that LAS doesn't have or are seasonal there).

The market is there for another carrier. Considering G4 makes 2X-3X per day on many days work with pure O&D, 3X per day on a 737/A320 even with less than 30% connecting traffic (there would likely be more) would work very nicely.

Frontier's success depends on their schedule/connections. If they pull the same thing as last time where you could only connect to a couple small markets, it won't work. At a minimum, need connections on every flight to/from D.C., NYC, Orlando, Chicago, and Houston. Minneapolis, Atlanta, and a few other big cities would be nice too.
 
jplatts
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:15 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
Probably right. I like the speculation and guessing side of things. Will be interesting to see the dots continue to connect.

Will MSP-LAS be made permanent?


Southwest could expand the MSP-LAS nonstop service to year-round plus add a 2nd daily nonstop between MSP and LAS. A second daily nonstop between MSP and LAS would make it easier to connect to California destinations from MSP through LAS on Southwest.
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:39 pm

I have some doubts about MSP-LAS having a second flight. Would be nice to have at least a permanent, year-round daily on WN. Today, 8/14, has 10 flights between DL, SY, NK. And, I believe NK adds a second over the winter months. Not sure on the other carriers. Tough to say all the carriers on this route could add another daily flight.
 
plinth857
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:36 pm

I would love to see a daily CLE-MCI flight. I wonder if the numbers would support it. They have the gate space at CLE; not sure about MCI.
 
jplatts
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:10 pm

Is Southwest wanting to add nonstop service from DAL to MSP and CLE? Southwest is discontinuing DAL-MKE nonstop service on March 8th, but did not announce any new routes out of DAL yet. There is more demand for flights to MSP and CLE from Dallas (both Dallas airports combined) than there is for flights to MKE from Dallas (both Dallas airports combined). In addition, AA is currently the only airline to have year-round daily nonstop service to Dallas from CLE after UA and F9 discontinued DFW-CLE nonstop service and after Spirit now only operates DFW-CLE nonstop service seasonally, and both Southwest and Delta have previously considered adding nonstop service to MSP from DAL.
 
lakeeffect
Posts: 455
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:21 pm

plinth857 wrote:
I would love to see a daily CLE-MCI flight. I wonder if the numbers would support it. They have the gate space at CLE; not sure about MCI.


This has been speculated for a long time. Even the old CLE airport director said he expected to see this announced soon but that was almost 2 years ago now.

CLE-MCI demand hovered around 70-80 passengers per day each way during the end of the UA hub at CLE. Even then, United was only able to capture about 50-60% of that demand via their 4 daily nonstops. It's hard to say what kind of traffic WN could stimulate on a once daily MCI flight, but considering WN is starting twice daily CLE-MKE, I'd say it's not out of the question MCI gets added next year.
 
Midwestindy
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:26 pm

plinth857 wrote:
I would love to see a daily CLE-MCI flight. I wonder if the numbers would support it. They have the gate space at CLE; not sure about MCI.


2016 CLE-MCI PDEW(passengers daily each way)
Q1-68 PDEW
Q2-85 PDEW
Q3-78 PDEW
Q4-81 PDEW
 
jplatts
Posts: 518
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:43 pm

airliner371 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest currently has 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and Southwest could drop one of its LGA-ATL nonstops and add nonstop service from EWR to ATL to free up a slot at LGA to use for CMH to LGA nonstop service.

Not gonna happen. LGA-ATL is a major business market and if they want to be even remotely competitive they need at least 5x service, if not more.

jplatts wrote:
Is there a way for Southwest to acquire extra slots for at least 3 additional daily nonstops from LGA? Could extra slots be created at LGA that would allow Southwest to do more flights out of LGA?

Not cheaply or easily. And no.


I can understand Southwest wanting to keep 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and I can also understand Southwest not being able to easily acquire extra slots at LGA.

Is there enough demand for nonstop service to LGA from OKC? Oklahoma City is currently the largest U.S. city within the LGA perimeter that does not have any nonstop service to LGA or JFK, and the Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area is also currently the largest U.S. metropolitan area within the LGA perimeter that does not have any nonstop service to LGA or JFK. Would Southwest add nonstop service to LGA from OKC if it can acquire enough slots at LGA to add OKC to LGA nonstop service?

Will Southwest end up adding OKC to BNA nonstop service? There is limited service to destinations between OKC and the Northeastern U.S. out of OKC on Southwest, with only 1 daily seasonal nonstop to MDW from OKC, with only 1 daily nonstop to BWI, with only 2 daily nonstops to STL from OKC, with 4 daily nonstops to DAL from OKC, and with 4 daily nonstops to HOU (which is too far south for connections between OKC and the Northeastern U.S.). Southwest would be able to connect customers travelling between OKC and destinations in Michigan, Ohio, the Northeastern U.S., and the Southeastern U.S. through BNA if Southwest added OKC-BNA nonstop service. There is also no nonstop service out of OKC to East Coast destinations north of BWI, and Southwest could provide easier access between OKC and the Northeastern U.S. with connections through BNA if it added OKC-BNA nonstop service. Is there enough demand for Southwest to serve BNA nonstop from OKC (including connections through Nashville to Southwest Airlines destinations further east)?
 
Jshank83
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:00 pm

jplatts wrote:
airliner371 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest currently has 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and Southwest could drop one of its LGA-ATL nonstops and add nonstop service from EWR to ATL to free up a slot at LGA to use for CMH to LGA nonstop service.

Not gonna happen. LGA-ATL is a major business market and if they want to be even remotely competitive they need at least 5x service, if not more.

jplatts wrote:
Is there a way for Southwest to acquire extra slots for at least 3 additional daily nonstops from LGA? Could extra slots be created at LGA that would allow Southwest to do more flights out of LGA?

Not cheaply or easily. And no.


I can understand Southwest wanting to keep 5 daily nonstops between LGA and ATL, and I can also understand Southwest not being able to easily acquire extra slots at LGA.

Is there enough demand for nonstop service to LGA from OKC? Oklahoma City is currently the largest U.S. city within the LGA perimeter that does not have any nonstop service to LGA or JFK, and the Oklahoma City Metropolitan Area is also currently the largest U.S. metropolitan area within the LGA perimeter that does not have any nonstop service to LGA or JFK. Would Southwest add nonstop service to LGA from OKC if it can acquire enough slots at LGA to add OKC to LGA nonstop service?

Will Southwest end up adding OKC to BNA nonstop service? There is limited service to destinations between OKC and the Northeastern U.S. out of OKC on Southwest, with only 1 daily seasonal nonstop to MDW from OKC, with only 1 daily nonstop to BWI, with only 2 daily nonstops to STL from OKC, with 4 daily nonstops to DAL from OKC, and with 4 daily nonstops to HOU (which is too far south for connections between OKC and the Northeastern U.S.). Southwest would be able to connect customers travelling between OKC and destinations in Michigan, Ohio, the Northeastern U.S., and the Southeastern U.S. through BNA if Southwest added OKC-BNA nonstop service. There is also no nonstop service out of OKC to East Coast destinations north of BWI, and Southwest could provide easier access between OKC and the Northeastern U.S. with connections through BNA if it added OKC-BNA nonstop service. Is there enough demand for Southwest to serve BNA nonstop from OKC (including connections through Nashville to Southwest Airlines destinations further east)?


They might as well just add another BWI if they want more NE connections for OKC. BWI flies to all the NE destinations. BNA doesn't add any more destinations to the NE that they don't already get through STL or BWI. A second to BWI would give a lot more connectivity.
 
stlgph
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:13 pm

Southwest does not fly Newark or Laguardia from Baltimore.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:27 pm

stlgph wrote:
Southwest does not fly Newark or Laguardia from Baltimore.


I stand corrected. I didn't even look at those two just assuming they flew to at least one of them. I guess they route those two airports through STL to/from OKC. The connection times look pretty good. BNA would add another LGA option but not Newark.
 
stlgph
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:15 am

It's all right, I, myself had assumed Southwest flew to Baltimore from Newark until I looked it up.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
czek6
Posts: 154
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:47 pm

They used to fly there to the NYC area from BWI but dropped the routes. It is very difficult for any airline to compete against Amtrak and the buses on the northeast corridor routes for O/D traffic. The majors can make service work as they have connections to international flights in NYC. But if Southwest is going to fly NYC-BWI just for domestic connections, then they should just fly the route to another city with good connectivity and maybe get some O/D traffic.

Still, you'd think they could operate one flight to NY from BWI. It does seem odd.
 
evank516
Posts: 64
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:04 pm

stlgph wrote:
Southwest does not fly Newark or Laguardia from Baltimore.


But they do fly to ISP from Baltimore, and according to the FAA ISP does officially count as the NYC Area.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9418
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:30 pm

evank516 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Southwest does not fly Newark or Laguardia from Baltimore.


But they do fly to ISP from Baltimore, and according to the FAA ISP does officially count as the NYC Area.


Sure it's the NYC area, but if you live in NYC, you could crawl there down I-95 after being delayed on the C Train faster than getting out to Islip and flying to Baltimore.

I'm surprised Baltimore - NYC was dropped on Southwest, but hey, whatever they want to do.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 80
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:52 pm

czek6 wrote:
They used to fly there to the NYC area from BWI but dropped the routes. It is very difficult for any airline to compete against Amtrak and the buses on the northeast corridor routes for O/D traffic. The majors can make service work as they have connections to international flights in NYC. But if Southwest is going to fly NYC-BWI just for domestic connections, then they should just fly the route to another city with good connectivity and maybe get some O/D traffic.

Still, you'd think they could operate one flight to NY from BWI. It does seem odd.


You hit it on the head. This route would probably ONLY be flown for domestic connections. It's difficult enough for the airlines to keep running shuttle flights to BOS and DCA in competition with Amtrak, and BWI is closer and Baltimore Penn Station so much better location wise for most anyone terminating or originating in Baltimore than BWI.
 
WN732
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Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:12 pm

whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
BMWdrvr75 wrote:
In the meantime Alaska is becoming California's favorite airline. Connecting the dots throughout California - albeit they do not have a ton of frequency between LAX-SFO, OAK-BUR, etc, etc they do serve many more cities than WN in California and are very happy to connect the dots. The ole boys in Texas have their heads up their a$$es and think making employees go out and paint posters that say we love California make them the most liked in California. Open FAT, PSP at a minimum and give the California Rapid Rewards peeps what they want Hawaii - California's vacation destination.


People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html


FAT-LAS is a low yield, high LF market. G4 is slowly killing demand. What was once the #1 O&D market is fading and fading fast. The Bee story is truthful, that you're risking your vacation by flying Allegiant. That said, WN would likely do better connecting FAT to PHX or DEN for connecting traffic. While Frontier will be back by April on DEN, I'd expect they'll be gone by fall... WN, throw us something, anything - please.


FAT would seriously benefit from getting Southwest. I think that it will stimulate traffic with lower average fares, but more people would be willing to give FAT a shot. I live in Fresno but I've never flown out of FAT for this reason.
 
WN732
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:18 pm

flyfresno wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html


FAT-LAS is a low yield, high LF market. G4 is slowly killing demand. What was once the #1 O&D market is fading and fading fast. The Bee story is truthful, that you're risking your vacation by flying Allegiant. That said, WN would likely do better connecting FAT to PHX or DEN for connecting traffic. While Frontier will be back by April on DEN, I'd expect they'll be gone by fall... WN, throw us something, anything - please.


If I'm not mistaken, Southwest has more non-stop destinations from LAS than PHX. Yes, some are in CA and would generate very few connections from FAT, if any (SMF, SJC, OAK, etc), but it would likely be a better option than PHX, although I think PHX would still get at least 1X per day (still good O&D and a few extra markets that LAS doesn't have or are seasonal there).

The market is there for another carrier. Considering G4 makes 2X-3X per day on many days work with pure O&D, 3X per day on a 737/A320 even with less than 30% connecting traffic (there would likely be more) would work very nicely.

Frontier's success depends on their schedule/connections. If they pull the same thing as last time where you could only connect to a couple small markets, it won't work. At a minimum, need connections on every flight to/from D.C., NYC, Orlando, Chicago, and Houston. Minneapolis, Atlanta, and a few other big cities would be nice too.



I think ONT, SNA, and maybe even BUR and LGB will benefit with some connections, especially in the Winter time. Driving down the 99 and the grapevine in the Winter can be downright treacherous; Not to mention that the drive already sucks in general.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 283
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:41 pm

WN732 wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

People are getting angrier and angrier at Allegiant in Fresno (and other cities). 3X per day FAT-LAS would likely be chocked full.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/art ... 54832.html


FAT-LAS is a low yield, high LF market. G4 is slowly killing demand. What was once the #1 O&D market is fading and fading fast. The Bee story is truthful, that you're risking your vacation by flying Allegiant. That said, WN would likely do better connecting FAT to PHX or DEN for connecting traffic. While Frontier will be back by April on DEN, I'd expect they'll be gone by fall... WN, throw us something, anything - please.


FAT would seriously benefit from getting Southwest. I think that it will stimulate traffic with lower average fares, but more people would be willing to give FAT a shot. I live in Fresno but I've never flown out of FAT for this reason.


I would imagine that Fresno has one of the highest Rapid Reward / SWA frequent flyer populations in the country for a metro area not served by SWA, if not the highest. I am amazed at how many of my friends drive to OAK or LAX just to fly SWA, especially when they are only taking a short flight to somewhere like PHX, TUS, LAS, or even DEN. In markets where SWA is big (SMF being a great example), people will go out of their way to fly on them, partially because of their low fares, but also partially because their whole system/experience is very different from other airlines, and many swear by it. I do think that the market would be there for a couple SoCal flights, particularly to SNA or SAN (the former only if they can get a slot), but I also think that simply operating to a big connection point like LAS would capture back most of those SWA fans, even if they have to connect in LAS every time. I would assume that most of them would still prefer FAT-LAS-SAN or FAT-LAS-RNO or FAT-LAS-TUS than driving to LAX or OAK first, provided fares are within $30. As has been mentioned many times on this page, it's likely PHX would be included in an initial offering too.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 478
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:42 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
I would love to see a daily CLE-MCI flight. I wonder if the numbers would support it. They have the gate space at CLE; not sure about MCI.


2016 CLE-MCI PDEW(passengers daily each way)
Q1-68 PDEW
Q2-85 PDEW
Q3-78 PDEW
Q4-81 PDEW


Aren't great numbers but would likely be stimulated upward if there was an actual non-stop flight as opposed to a connection now. Could be stimulated more by operating the flight on to PHX or LAS like WN is doing with one of the CLE-MKE flights. I don't think 1x daily is crazy, if done right.

Not holding my breath. I think CLE-DAL/HOU are more likely next.
 
evank516
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:28 am

Not that I expect it, but a second LGA-MCI flight might work if/when they acquire additional slots. Sure, they have the connections through MDW and STL, but their one daily flight is usually filled to the brinks and with AA leaving the market (again), we're down to 4 RJs and a 737 per day.
 
stl07
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:53 am

evank516 wrote:
Not that I expect it, but a second LGA-MCI flight might work if/when they acquire additional slots. Sure, they have the connections through MDW and STL, but their one daily flight is usually filled to the brinks and with AA leaving the market (again), we're down to 4 RJs and a 737 per day.

Or at least a no plane change through STL or MDW
 
Jshank83
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:36 am

evank516 wrote:
Not that I expect it, but a second LGA-MCI flight might work if/when they acquire additional slots. Sure, they have the connections through MDW and STL, but their one daily flight is usually filled to the brinks and with AA leaving the market (again), we're down to 4 RJs and a 737 per day.


I am a little surprised at MCI's lack of flights to NYC. No AA, just one WN, 3 UA (RJS) and 4 or 5 DL (RJS). Is there just not that much traffic on that route or are they making a lot of people connect? I am sure there are PDEW numbers somewhere but I am too lazy to look them up. I would guess UA might put a fair amount of TATL people through ORD instead of EWR though.
 
plinth857
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:00 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
I would love to see a daily CLE-MCI flight. I wonder if the numbers would support it. They have the gate space at CLE; not sure about MCI.


2016 CLE-MCI PDEW(passengers daily each way)
Q1-68 PDEW
Q2-85 PDEW
Q3-78 PDEW
Q4-81 PDEW


Aren't great numbers but would likely be stimulated upward if there was an actual non-stop flight as opposed to a connection now. Could be stimulated more by operating the flight on to PHX or LAS like WN is doing with one of the CLE-MKE flights. I don't think 1x daily is crazy, if done right.

Not holding my breath. I think CLE-DAL/HOU are more likely next.


I wouldn't have thought they could find the gate space at either DAL or HOU; I would love to be wrong. I'd be all over that DAL flight. I much prefer DAL to DFW from a convenience standpoint.
 
evank516
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Not that I expect it, but a second LGA-MCI flight might work if/when they acquire additional slots. Sure, they have the connections through MDW and STL, but their one daily flight is usually filled to the brinks and with AA leaving the market (again), we're down to 4 RJs and a 737 per day.


I am a little surprised at MCI's lack of flights to NYC. No AA, just one WN, 3 UA (RJS) and 4 or 5 DL (RJS). Is there just not that much traffic on that route or are they making a lot of people connect? I am sure there are PDEW numbers somewhere but I am too lazy to look them up. I would guess UA might put a fair amount of TATL people through ORD instead of EWR though.


I really am too. I would think that WN could at least manage two dailies on there. I don't think it's lack of traffic per se, I think it's lack of slots. This was a decent market for Midwest as MCI was a hub for them back in the day. Even AA was throwing MD-80s on this during that time. I think if KCMO manages to push a new terminal through we may see more flights on WN from MCI to both coasts as they could use it for more connections. Yes, they have STL down the road and MDW up the road from STL, but WN does seem to manage their operation in MCI quite well and they seem to make due with connections through MCI as all WN gates are connected through corridors.

As someone who frequently flies WN's LGA-MCI flight (at peak and off peak times of year) since they started it, I have to say judging by the fact that it's always packed it cannot be a PDEW issue for sure. The biggest issue I see is that it's always delayed because they time it out for MCI originating passengers as opposed to LGA originating passengers (and LGA is of course, LGA). That's why I think a second flight would be good so they can be timed for originating pax on both ends.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:23 pm

evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Not that I expect it, but a second LGA-MCI flight might work if/when they acquire additional slots. Sure, they have the connections through MDW and STL, but their one daily flight is usually filled to the brinks and with AA leaving the market (again), we're down to 4 RJs and a 737 per day.


I am a little surprised at MCI's lack of flights to NYC. No AA, just one WN, 3 UA (RJS) and 4 or 5 DL (RJS). Is there just not that much traffic on that route or are they making a lot of people connect? I am sure there are PDEW numbers somewhere but I am too lazy to look them up. I would guess UA might put a fair amount of TATL people through ORD instead of EWR though.


I really am too. I would think that WN could at least manage two dailies on there. I don't think it's lack of traffic per se, I think it's lack of slots. This was a decent market for Midwest as MCI was a hub for them back in the day. Even AA was throwing MD-80s on this during that time. I think if KCMO manages to push a new terminal through we may see more flights on WN from MCI to both coasts as they could use it for more connections. Yes, they have STL down the road and MDW up the road from STL, but WN does seem to manage their operation in MCI quite well and they seem to make due with connections through MCI as all WN gates are connected through corridors.

As someone who frequently flies WN's LGA-MCI flight (at peak and off peak times of year) since they started it, I have to say judging by the fact that it's always packed it cannot be a PDEW issue for sure. The biggest issue I see is that it's always delayed because they time it out for MCI originating passengers as opposed to LGA originating passengers (and LGA is of course, LGA). That's why I think a second flight would be good so they can be timed for originating pax on both ends.


Does EWR have slots? I figure WN could run one flight through there. As someone who has STL as my home airport, I know we run a lot more connections than MCI but 5 to 1 NYC flights on WN plus all the extra legacy flights just seems off. I guess that is why I don't run an airline though... haha. But I guess as I mentioned some of the legacies could be running more connections from STL through NYC (although I don't know how many connections are really run through LGA) than MCI since ORD/ATL are a little less out of the way for MCI.
 
evank516
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I am a little surprised at MCI's lack of flights to NYC. No AA, just one WN, 3 UA (RJS) and 4 or 5 DL (RJS). Is there just not that much traffic on that route or are they making a lot of people connect? I am sure there are PDEW numbers somewhere but I am too lazy to look them up. I would guess UA might put a fair amount of TATL people through ORD instead of EWR though.


I really am too. I would think that WN could at least manage two dailies on there. I don't think it's lack of traffic per se, I think it's lack of slots. This was a decent market for Midwest as MCI was a hub for them back in the day. Even AA was throwing MD-80s on this during that time. I think if KCMO manages to push a new terminal through we may see more flights on WN from MCI to both coasts as they could use it for more connections. Yes, they have STL down the road and MDW up the road from STL, but WN does seem to manage their operation in MCI quite well and they seem to make due with connections through MCI as all WN gates are connected through corridors.

As someone who frequently flies WN's LGA-MCI flight (at peak and off peak times of year) since they started it, I have to say judging by the fact that it's always packed it cannot be a PDEW issue for sure. The biggest issue I see is that it's always delayed because they time it out for MCI originating passengers as opposed to LGA originating passengers (and LGA is of course, LGA). That's why I think a second flight would be good so they can be timed for originating pax on both ends.


Does EWR have slots? I figure WN could run one flight through there. As someone who has STL as my home airport, I know we run a lot more connections than MCI but 5 to 1 NYC flights on WN plus all the extra legacy flights just seems off. I guess that is why I don't run an airline though... haha. But I guess as I mentioned some of the legacies could be running more connections from STL through NYC (although I don't know how many connections are really run through LGA) than MCI since ORD/ATL are a little less out of the way for MCI.


EWR does not have slots anymore so theoretically WN COULD add EWR-MCI, but I don't know if the demand comes from those who will use EWR. UA runs E Jets maybe twice a day. DL and WN operate a combo of 6 flights (5 to 1 respectively) on a mix of CR7s/CR9s to WN's 737-700. This leads me to believe that more of the demand is east of the Hudson. I'd really like to see the numbers on LGA-MCI (or NYC in general to MCI).
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Every time one of these schedule extensions comes out I worry about what's going to happen to us out here in Amarillo. We're down so much from when I moved out here in 2008. We're down to only four flights a day to Love Field and one to Las Vegas. It seems to me that if they cut any more they'll loose critical mass and simply close the station. I worry we'll get cut in favor of extra flights to bigger cities from Love Field. Any thoughts from people with more knowledge than me?
 
evank516
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:06 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
Every time one of these schedule extensions comes out I worry about what's going to happen to us out here in Amarillo. We're down so much from when I moved out here in 2008. We're down to only four flights a day to Love Field and one to Las Vegas. It seems to me that if they cut any more they'll loose critical mass and simply close the station. I worry we'll get cut in favor of extra flights to bigger cities from Love Field. Any thoughts from people with more knowledge than me?


WN seems pretty loyal to their current stations in TX. I keep seeing one (either CRP or HRL) where many wonder why it still exists, but it does! I can't forsee AMA going anywhere.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:54 pm

To those living in Fresno, a good route for Southwest would be OAK - FAT - LAS - FAT - OAK or would the route between OAK & FAT be "too short"?
Ever Wish You Can Go Back In Time And Live In An Earlier Era Of Aviation?
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1144
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: WN schedule extension 8/28/17

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:04 pm

If possible, I would think Delta Air Lines would add OKC - LGA.
Ever Wish You Can Go Back In Time And Live In An Earlier Era Of Aviation?

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