dcajet
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Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:22 pm

With the new schedule that was loaded last night, UA upgauged the future EWR-EZE service, due to start Oct. 28 from the 763ER to the 764. This change implies 30% more seats in the Polaris cabin and 10% more seats in the back of the bus.

This will be United's third time operating from the NYC area to EZE. It flew from JFK to Buenos Aires for over a decade until it pretty much shut down international flying out of JFK, when the flight was moved to IAD. Then it tried from EWR in 2012, but it only lasted for less than two years. Third time's a charm, hopefully.
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LAXintl
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:26 pm

This has nothing to do with demand. Simple fact as announced this week internally is that the 763 fleet is leaving EWR this fall.
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dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:28 pm

And who said anything about demand? I just said it was being upgauged and the % increase in the # of seats offered, not knowing that the 763 is leaving the EWR hub.

Take a chill pill, dude.
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mercure1
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:35 pm

UA has no choice. Smallest widebody at EWR will be 764. So either drop route or pray to fill bigger plane.
 
fun2fly
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:53 pm

LAXintl wrote:
This has nothing to do with demand. Simple fact as announced this week internally is that the 763 fleet is leaving EWR this fall.


What will happen to the LHR routes? All 764? I thought the 764's were headed to IAD.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:57 pm

2 of the daily flights EWR-LHR are still loaded as operated with 763 in November. EWR-MUC is also operated by 763 in November as per UA website. CDG, MXP, and ZRH are loaded as 764.
UA does very well on their IAH-EZE service, the only deep South America route currently operated by 772 from IAH. Hopefully the EWR route will be a success.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm

fun2fly wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
This has nothing to do with demand. Simple fact as announced this week internally is that the 763 fleet is leaving EWR this fall.


What will happen to the LHR routes? All 764? I thought the 764's were headed to IAD.


LHR is going all 764 with the occasional 752 in the slow seasons.

The new management has really cleaned house and has replaced almost everyone. The new team has reversed a lot of decisions including the 764 to IAD.

The original reason was because they wanted the 763s reliability to improve so they put them in EWR, IAH and ORD because they had hangars. Now that IAD has a massive hangar I suppose IAD can do the work.
 
mm320cap
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:06 pm

They are moving the 764 BACK to EWR and the 763 BACK to IAD. It's due to Flight Attendant staffing considerations since they won't cross fly until Oct 2018. Therefore it's puts more CO planes in EWR and more UA planes in IAD so that the FA's seniority is less out of whack.
 
dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:10 pm

mercure1 wrote:
UA has no choice. Smallest widebody at EWR will be 764. So either drop route or pray to fill bigger plane.


Well, according to United's Country Manager in Argentina, Christoff Poppe, advanced bookings for the flight are very encouraging. He mentioned this at the opening of United's new call center in Argentina that serves Argentina, naturally, and selected countries from Europe, Middle East, Israel and Africa. Interestingly enough, no other Latin American markets are served from Argentina,

http://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2017/06/u ... ll-center/
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jumbojet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:14 pm

dcajet wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
UA has no choice. Smallest widebody at EWR will be 764. So either drop route or pray to fill bigger plane.


Well, according to United's Country Manager in Argentina, Christoff Poppe, advanced bookings for the flight are very encouraging. He mentioned this at the opening of United's new call center in Argentina that serves Argentina, naturally, and selected countries from Europe, Middle East, Israel and Africa. Interestingly enough, no other Latin American markets are served from Argentina,

http://www.sirchandler.com.ar/2017/06/u ... ll-center/


Encouraging: Giving someone support or confidence. Not a word I would use to needing to upsize to a 764.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:34 pm

dcajet wrote:
. He mentioned this at the opening of United's new call center in Argentina that serves Argentina, naturally, and selected countries from Europe, Middle East, Israel and Africa. Interestingly enough, no other Latin American markets are served from Argentina,


Primary UA call center covering Latin America is Mexico for Spanish speakers and Sao Paulo for Portuguese speakers.
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TSA125
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:35 pm

mm320cap wrote:
They are moving the 764 BACK to EWR and the 763 BACK to IAD. It's due to Flight Attendant staffing considerations since they won't cross fly until Oct 2018. Therefore it's puts more CO planes in EWR and more UA planes in IAD so that the FA's seniority is less out of whack.


Does UA still take CO planes and crew into account in determining seniority? And are CO planes being flown mainly by CO pilots? Seems a bit inefficient to me.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:47 pm

TSA125 wrote:
mm320cap wrote:
They are moving the 764 BACK to EWR and the 763 BACK to IAD. It's due to Flight Attendant staffing considerations since they won't cross fly until Oct 2018. Therefore it's puts more CO planes in EWR and more UA planes in IAD so that the FA's seniority is less out of whack.


Does UA still take CO planes and crew into account in determining seniority? And are CO planes being flown mainly by CO pilots? Seems a bit inefficient to me.


The pilots have been flying together since 2013, however the FAs still can't. There is a Master FA seniority list and a new joint contract however United IT is working on a program that is big enough to handle 22000+ FAs. Until that happens the FAs are segregated to Legacy metal and that puts them into legacy seniority.

With the 787s coming to IAD with CO FAs to fly PEK, GRU, LHR, and CDG they had to many UA FAs. And the reverse with the 777-300 coming to EWR to fly TLV, NRT and my guess HKG with UA FAsthere is to many CO FAs..........the whole thing is a mess as the FAs are the only work group not together. OCT of 2018 can't get here soon enough.
 
dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:48 pm

LAXintl wrote:
dcajet wrote:
. He mentioned this at the opening of United's new call center in Argentina that serves Argentina, naturally, and selected countries from Europe, Middle East, Israel and Africa. Interestingly enough, no other Latin American markets are served from Argentina.


Primary UA call center covering Latin America is Mexico for Spanish speakers and Sao Paulo for Portuguese speakers.


Correct - Argentina has always been a bit of a linguistic odd ball in Latin America and its Spanish dialect/version stands out from the rest. So airlines with a big enough operation there keep the call centers local. Locals are not amused when they call the 0-800 numbers and the call gets answered by a very unfamiliar accent with a different lexicon, as LATAM had to learn recently...
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jayunited
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:28 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
The pilots have been flying together since 2013, however the FAs still can't. There is a Master FA seniority list and a new joint contract however United IT is working on a program that is big enough to handle 22000+ FAs. Until that happens the FAs are segregated to Legacy metal and that puts them into legacy seniority.

With the 787s coming to IAD with CO FAs to fly PEK, GRU, LHR, and CDG they had to many UA FAs. And the reverse with the 777-300 coming to EWR to fly TLV, NRT and my guess HKG with UA FAsthere is to many CO FAs..........the whole thing is a mess as the FAs are the only work group not together. OCT of 2018 can't get here soon enough.



This probably should be discussed in its own thread but you are absolutely correct. With all the equipment changes that will happen later this year leaving the 763's at EWR and the 764's at IAD would have created huge imbalance for the flight attendants. Right now because of the fact that the FA's are not fully integrated we have FA's on both sides at certain hubs that have over 20 years seniority that are on reserve and not by choice. We have FA's that are commuting to different hubs outside of their "home base" just be to able to hold a line. This entire process has created a lot of frustration for senior FA's on both sides. Smisek of course didn't care at all but Munoz seems to care not just about the passengers but about the employees. On Flying Together he did mention that moving the 763's and 764's may not be the best use of the aircraft but he is doing it because it is the right thing to do for the FA's. He is trying to balance out some of the international flying while at the same time recognizing that a FA with 20 - 25 years seniority should not be on reserve unless he/she chooses to be. There was also mention of other hubs and domestic flying, moving some aircraft around domestically to try to balance out flying opportunities domestically.
This move also should reduce the number of FA jumpseaters as well since there should be less of them commuting from one hub to another hub just to hold a decent line.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:33 pm

jayunited wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
The pilots have been flying together since 2013, however the FAs still can't. There is a Master FA seniority list and a new joint contract however United IT is working on a program that is big enough to handle 22000+ FAs. Until that happens the FAs are segregated to Legacy metal and that puts them into legacy seniority.

With the 787s coming to IAD with CO FAs to fly PEK, GRU, LHR, and CDG they had to many UA FAs. And the reverse with the 777-300 coming to EWR to fly TLV, NRT and my guess HKG with UA FAsthere is to many CO FAs..........the whole thing is a mess as the FAs are the only work group not together. OCT of 2018 can't get here soon enough.



This probably should be discussed in its own thread but you are absolutely correct. With all the equipment changes that will happen later this year leaving the 763's at EWR and the 764's at IAD would have created huge imbalance for the flight attendants. Right now because of the fact that the FA's are not fully integrated we have FA's on both sides at certain hubs that have over 20 years seniority that are on reserve and not by choice. We have FA's that are commuting to different hubs outside of their "home base" just be to able to hold a line. This entire process has created a lot of frustration for senior FA's on both sides. Smisek of course didn't care at all but Munoz seems to care not just about the passengers but about the employees. On Flying Together he did mention that moving the 763's and 764's may not be the best use of the aircraft but he is doing it because it is the right thing to do for the FA's. He is trying to balance out some of the international flying while at the same time recognizing that a FA with 20 - 25 years seniority should not be on reserve unless he/she chooses to be. There was also mention of other hubs and domestic flying, moving some aircraft around domestically to try to balance out flying opportunities domestically.
This move also should reduce the number of FA jumpseaters as well since there should be less of them commuting from one hub to another hub just to hold a decent line.


I think it's appropriate here because it is THE reason the route is being put on a 764
 
N62NA
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:38 am

LAXintl wrote:
This has nothing to do with demand. Simple fact as announced this week internally is that the 763 fleet is leaving EWR this fall.


Wow. Hope they will be able to fill those 764s at EWR.
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VC10er
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:38 am

First: what does "Line" mean in regard to an FA? I simply am unfamiliar. Thanks.
I can't help but like Oscar Munoz. The fact he seems (as mentioned here) as concerned about his employees as he is passengers, speaks volumes about how he "gets it". For many years people complained about United and mostly due to less than good service and attitude from a United employees. If "Flying Together" (as I understand it) works - the end benefit to happy employees are happy customers.
One day the merger and Smisek will be resigned to history for both employees and the flying public. Yes, it was a long protracted nightmare, and should have been mangaged better. But it will be ancient history as new generations of employees and customers enter the flying world: especially business fliers.
Sometimes, reading some threads, it seems like the 764 is the most precious aircraft in their fleet. There are only 16, or is it 14? Me often wonders if United (exCO) wished they had 10 more of them, same for Delta. I love flying her. It really doesn't feel different than a 763, but looking down the aisle from the front to back, she looks enormous inside- much more than she looks on the outside.
I can't wait for the day when they have all new interiors, the pics of the 767 with full Polaris make a very old frame look brand spanking new!
I recently flew a regular 767 in Polaris from LIS to EWR with a friend who couldn't really care less about what airline or airplane he's on. He comes from a very rich family and they always have flown up front. It was in the current flat bed seat (obviously), unprompted by me, he said afterwards "that may have been the best flight of my life. I loved that 767 over the 777, the seats and blankets, etc were so comfortable, my dinner was even really pretty good". He then said "next time I'm flying United again and I'm going to look for a 767"
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 pm

At 5200 miles, will EWR-EZE be the longest 767-400 route? That is pushing the range of the airplane a bit.
 
dash400
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:32 pm

VC10er - a "line" for a flight attendant, or pilot for that matter, is what we call our monthly schedule. Crews ask each other "What line did you get for next month? - and you answer "Ohh...a mix of Atlanta and Chicago layovers (or trips) with weekends off" or something similar. We are awarded a "line" (whether a solid line or reserve line) each month and if we are not satisfied with said line, we start trading with each other or with the computer for better trips or days off. We always looking to improve our schedules!
 
dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:04 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
At 5200 miles, will EWR-EZE be the longest 767-400 route? That is pushing the range of the airplane a bit.


Well, Boeing advertised its MTOW range at 5625 miles, so it indeed may be the longest non stop 764 route, and it will be pretty close to its limit. Now, EWR to EZE is pretty much a north-south route, so the head/tailwinds component may not be as much of a factor as an Atlantic crossing.

DL operates the 764 from ATL to EZE - reckon that one may be ~500 miles shorter than EWR-EZE. Also both CO and UA have operated the 764 to EZE before, but from IAH.
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MSPNWA
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
At 5200 miles, will EWR-EZE be the longest 767-400 route? That is pushing the range of the airplane a bit.


Good question. I can't remember one longer of the top of my head. I remember EWR-HNL being one of - if not the - longest 764 flights, and that's about 250 miles SM shorter. But going westbound against prevailing winds, I suspect EWR-HNL is still more taxing on its range than EZE-EWR will be.
Last edited by MSPNWA on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
VC10er
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:26 pm

dash400 wrote:
VC10er - a "line" for a flight attendant, or pilot for that matter, is what we call our monthly schedule. Crews ask each other "What line did you get for next month? - and you answer "Ohh...a mix of Atlanta and Chicago layovers (or trips) with weekends off" or something similar. We are awarded a "line" (whether a solid line or reserve line) each month and if we are not satisfied with said line, we start trading with each other or with the computer for better trips or days off. We always looking to improve our schedules!


Interesting: THANK YOU! I dated a BA FA over 20 years ago and he would show me his new list (Line) when he got them and got so upset when he saw Luanda too many times in a month. He was young, Jr FA, but I used to think "what a great job!!! So young and he's seeing the world"
He spoke MANY languages fluently (6 if memory serves) but I recall seeing that his "line" rarely seemed to take advantage of his 6 pretty fluent languages. That surprised me.
I prefer flying over the vacation itself! I go on business trips just so I can fly!
 
dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:33 pm

VC10er wrote:
dash400 wrote:
VC10er - a "line" for a flight attendant, or pilot for that matter, is what we call our monthly schedule. Crews ask each other "What line did you get for next month? - and you answer "Ohh...a mix of Atlanta and Chicago layovers (or trips) with weekends off" or something similar. We are awarded a "line" (whether a solid line or reserve line) each month and if we are not satisfied with said line, we start trading with each other or with the computer for better trips or days off. We always looking to improve our schedules!


Interesting: THANK YOU! I dated a BA FA over 20 years ago and he would show me his new list (Line) when he got them and got so upset when he saw Luanda too many times in a month. He was young, Jr FA, but I used to think "what a great job!!! So young and he's seeing the world"
He spoke MANY languages fluently (6 if memory serves) but I recall seeing that his "line" rarely seemed to take advantage of his 6 pretty fluent languages. That surprised me.


A giant off topic but, following up with what just VC10er just mentioned, BA did not have (or may still not have) such thing as UK-based language qualified F/As groups that flew specific routes per their bidding and language qualifications. Instead, they opened foreign nationals bases in places such as SIN, MEX, GRU, EZE, PVG, et al to serve that purpose. Bases that are now being closed, at least some of them.
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MalevTU134
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:11 pm

dcajet wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
dcajet wrote:
. He mentioned this at the opening of United's new call center in Argentina that serves Argentina, naturally, and selected countries from Europe, Middle East, Israel and Africa. Interestingly enough, no other Latin American markets are served from Argentina.


Primary UA call center covering Latin America is Mexico for Spanish speakers and Sao Paulo for Portuguese speakers.


Correct - Argentina has always been a bit of a linguistic odd ball in Latin America and its Spanish dialect/version stands out from the rest. So airlines with a big enough operation there keep the call centers local. Locals are not amused when they call the 0-800 numbers and the call gets answered by a very unfamiliar accent with a different lexicon, as LATAM had to learn recently...

The main reason for not having the call center for all Latin American countries in Argentina is cost. While the local variant of spanish is quite distinct, the operators are easy to teach to speak a more neutral Spanish, and wouldn't be using "che, boludo" anyway... Argentina is a lot more expensive in labor cost terms, and Buenos Aires in office space, than almost all other Latin American countries. That's why a lot of call centers have actually moved away from Argentina, to Colombia, Mexico and elsewhere. Mobile phone operator Movistar, for example, serves almost all of Latin America (including Argentina) from Cali, Colombia. What Argentina - and specially Buenos Aires - offers is an abundance of multi-language speakers for a lot less than in the European/Middle East home countries of those languages, due to being a cosmopolitan city with lots of 1st, 2nd and even 3rd generation immigrants who still speak "their" language at a good enough level. I ran a multi-language call center in Buenos Aires for almost 10 years, and while we could have run it cheaper out of Bolivia, Paraguay or Colombia if it was only for the Spanish-speaking customers, we soon realised that nothing beats Buenos Aires when it comes to offering service in the 11 languages we ran. My guess is that UA has come to a similar conclusion.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:00 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
At 5200 miles, will EWR-EZE be the longest 767-400 route? That is pushing the range of the airplane a bit.


EWR to EZE will not be pushing the limits of the 767-400. UA/CO have operated the same plane on EWR-HNL for years and never an issue. Roughly the same distance.
 
dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:11 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
nothing beats Buenos Aires when it comes to offering service in the 11 languages we ran. My guess is that UA has come to a similar conclusion.


In fact, they are busy hiring Hebrew and Arabic speakers right now - as Israel and the Middle East have just been added to to the BUE call center's area of coverage. The former is easier than the latter, due to Argentina's large Jewish population, second only to the US in the Americas. United also serves the Groups Desk for the whole of Europe from its new call center, which is actually not situated in the City of Buenos Aires per se, but in the northern suburbs.
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dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:19 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
while we could have run it cheaper out of Bolivia, Paraguay or Colombia if it was only for the Spanish-speaking customers


LATAM has recently closed its Argentina call center and moved its responsibilities to similar centers in Chile, Peru and Colombia. Argentina simply can't compete with its higher labor costs/benefits and real estate prices in Buenos Aires (LATAM is HQ'red near AEP, a pretty expensive area) compared to other Latin nations. Around 40 employees were affected.
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qf789
Crew
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:19 am

Keep the thread in topic. If you wish to debate the difference in Polaris seating across UA's network start a new thread
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:14 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
At 5200 miles, will EWR-EZE be the longest 767-400 route? That is pushing the range of the airplane a bit.


EWR to EZE will not be pushing the limits of the 767-400. UA/CO have operated the same plane on EWR-HNL for years and never an issue. Roughly the same distance.


UA also used to fly MUC-IAH...farther than both above-listed routes and it had the westbound Atlantic winds to deal with. EWR-EZE shouldn't pose any problems with range and the 6AM-ish arrival into EWR will avoid almost any airport/ATC delay which should help with fuel planning.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ewr-hnl,+ewr-eze,+muc-iah
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dcajet
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Re: Before it starts, UA upgauges EWR-EZE

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:25 pm

IAHWorldflyer wrote:
UA does very well on their IAH-EZE service, the only deep South America route currently operated by 772 from IAH. Hopefully the EWR route will be a success.


They may have been training/proving flights, but UA has been operating a few flights with the new 77W on the IAH-EZE route during the winter term school break in Argentina. Loads from IAH were around 300 paxs.

I am told It did cause a bit of an operational issue, as crews on layover in Buenos Aires are sCO crews on the ex sCO 772, and the 77W is flown by sUA, so the latter crews did a turnaround right back to IAH after the legal rest time.
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