speedbird0125
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Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:04 pm

Since UA is going to cancel their NRT-ICN in Oct, I'm wondering if there's any possibility that they will start any new route to Korea. I'm sure UA doesn't want to give up their slots at ICN when cancelling the NRT flight.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:13 pm

ICN is hardly slot limited with authorized 63 movements per hour.
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HeeseokKoo
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:32 pm

LAXintl wrote:
ICN is hardly slot limited with authorized 63 movements per hour.

Things have changed with a flood of LCC. Some hours (8-10am, 5-9pm) are already in cap. Other times (7-8am, 10am-5pm) are in near cap. Suddenly we see more and more 7:15am or 6:50am flights which used to be very rare at ICN even a couple of years ago.

But since the airport prioritizes based on the need (long hauls are hugely preferred), UA won't have an issue finding late afternoon slots if it launches another nonstop to the US. I've been expecting another nonstop this winter with the winter Olympic games and the suspension of ICN-NRT, but it's only 2.5 months away. Probably we'll see another one next summer or a bit later.
 
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thekorean
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:53 pm

UA doesn't have much of a relationship with OZ so I can't see any future route from anywhere else. Think their daily SFO flight is enough to satisfy US to Korea demands.
 
Yahnih
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:56 pm

Yeah. UA flies their 744 daily to ICN/SFO. However, does anyone know what their equoment will change to after retirement ?
 
kaitakfan
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Yahnih wrote:
Yeah. UA flies their 744 daily to ICN/SFO. However, does anyone know what their equoment will change to after retirement ?


787-9
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:38 pm

Yahnih wrote:
Yeah. UA flies their 744 daily to ICN/SFO. However, does anyone know what their equoment will change to after retirement ?


I would expect this to eventually become a 77W route before too long.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:23 am

SFOA380 wrote:
Yahnih wrote:
Yeah. UA flies their 744 daily to ICN/SFO. However, does anyone know what their equoment will change to after retirement ?


I would expect this to eventually become a 77W route before too long.

There's some pics in the database showing its been subbed with a 789 so that'd be my guess in the short term.
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atl100million
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:44 am

Given the increased competitive situation including the pending DL-KE JV, it is not likely that UA can justify another route to ICN. The fact that they are apparenly downgrading from a 744 to a 787-9 and passing over the 777-300ER tells you alot about their expectations for the market.
 
jfk777
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:01 am

Korea could be more important to United if Asiana, a Star alliance partner, offered UA something in Seoul. Chicago to ICN is flown by Asiana so UA would only fly if demand was there. United's lonely Korean gateway is likely to remain San Francisco which is sad since Newark and Houston would make good gateways too.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:55 pm

How about SFO-PUS 3-4 times per week?
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Luisvalero
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:19 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
How about SFO-PUS 3-4 times per week?


Long haul traffic from PUS is pretty little, because that demand in Korea is heavily focused on ICN, so it doesn't make much sense
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:28 pm

ICN can fill a 747 from SFO. One of the problems with the route though is flight time is too long for it to make the entire SFO connecting bank. It is the first to leave SFO at about 1050am and last to return arriving after 11am the next day. The Japanese flights leave later and return sooner whereas the Chinese flights have the plane sit on the ground for 18-21 hours. UA tried leaving a plane overnight in ICN for a while, but the fleet utilization is too low when they do that.
 
NichCage
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:42 pm

I don't see any more ICN service for United. NRT is being cut, while ORD would never be launched. SFO is more than enough.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:53 pm

How about SFO-PUS 3-4 times per week?


Except what's the demand? South Korea is heavily Seoul-centric, which means any international commerce and tourism basically all go there.

Not to mention, Busan is just not that big (Maybe 5 million counting the like of Gimhae and Changwon). If NGO, which is ~10 million people, can't support a SFO flight (Only TPAC is to HNL, b/c Japanese love going to Hawaii; and DTW, b/c of Toyota), I just don't see how PUS can.
 
kavok
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:56 pm

NichCage wrote:
I don't see any more ICN service for United. NRT is being cut, while ORD would never be launched. SFO is more than enough.


Never say never with ORD. Seoul is a large market, and with NRT-ICN going away, UA is basically giving the EastUSA-ICN market to KE/DL without a ORD flight.

ORD-ICN would allow UA to be competitive with DL/KE. Without an ORD flight, the choice for US pax east of the Mississippi becomes:
1. Fly direct on KE/DL if your market has service.
2. Connect in DTW or ATL
3. Connect in SFO or in Asia.

Both 1 and 2 are all skyteam, and much more desirable flight options than 3.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:07 pm

kavok wrote:
NichCage wrote:
I don't see any more ICN service for United. NRT is being cut, while ORD would never be launched. SFO is more than enough.


Never say never with ORD. Seoul is a large market, and with NRT-ICN going away, UA is basically giving the EastUSA-ICN market to KE/DL without a ORD flight.

ORD-ICN would allow UA to be competitive with DL/KE. Without an ORD flight, the choice for US pax east of the Mississippi becomes:
1. Fly direct on KE/DL if your market has service.
2. Connect in DTW or ATL
3. Connect in SFO or in Asia.

Both 1 and 2 are all skyteam, and much more desirable flight options than 3.


You forgot DFW-ICN on AA. They gather quite a bit from East of the Mississippi.

ORD-ICN is a big market, but it also has two carriers on it already. Is their room for a third? Im not 100%.
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SonomaFlyer
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:09 pm

UA will continue to monitor the market and adjust as needed. They will use the 789 at first and can upgauge to the 77W as needed.

It's unfortunate Asiana and UA don't coordinate more at ICN but unless that happens, UA will not likely expand their service. The DL, KL joint venture lowers the chances quite a bit.
 
kavok
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 5:18 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
kavok wrote:
NichCage wrote:
I don't see any more ICN service for United. NRT is being cut, while ORD would never be launched. SFO is more than enough.


Never say never with ORD. Seoul is a large market, and with NRT-ICN going away, UA is basically giving the EastUSA-ICN market to KE/DL without a ORD flight.

ORD-ICN would allow UA to be competitive with DL/KE. Without an ORD flight, the choice for US pax east of the Mississippi becomes:
1. Fly direct on KE/DL if your market has service.
2. Connect in DTW or ATL
3. Connect in SFO or in Asia.

Both 1 and 2 are all skyteam, and much more desirable flight options than 3.


You forgot DFW-ICN on AA. They gather quite a bit from East of the Mississippi.

ORD-ICN is a big market, but it also has two carriers on it already. Is their room for a third? Im not 100%.



Good call on DFW.

As for ORD, a UA flight from ORD-ICN would exist mainly to serve the connecting pax from EastUSA-ORD-ICN, and not just ORD-ICN direct. ORD just makes the most sense as a connecting point for UA flights.

Because flights to ICN mostly fly north from eastern US airports, flying to SFO/SEA or even DFW is flying out of the way. That is the geographic advantage of connecting in ORD.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:53 pm

FWIW, UAs flight number on EWR-NRT continues to NRT-ICN. ICN was always the largest TPAC hole out of EWR for CO and now UA. This seems like the safer bet out of EWR and ORD for an eastern gateway.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:08 pm

As for ORD, a UA flight from ORD-ICN would exist mainly to serve the connecting pax from EastUSA-ORD-ICN, and not just ORD-ICN direct. ORD just makes the most sense as a connecting point for UA flights.


I'm pretty sure UA is happy to just codeshare with OZ on that route. No point in starting a route with a partner already on it.

It's unfortunate Asiana and UA don't coordinate more at ICN but unless that happens, UA will not likely expand their service. The DL, KL joint venture lowers the chances quite a bit.


Doesn't help that there's NH next door that can do most of the connection similar to OZ. The only market that OZ is definitely stronger compare to NH is US<->ICN<->China (vs. US<->TYO<->China), but that's about it. Even then, Star also has CA in PEK that can serves China just as good.

You forgot DFW-ICN on AA. They gather quite a bit from East of the Mississippi.


DFW Metro Area actually has a fairly big Korean-American population, which always help :p.

FWIW, UAs flight number on EWR-NRT continues to NRT-ICN. ICN was always the largest TPAC hole out of EWR for CO and now UA. This seems like the safer bet out of EWR and ORD for an eastern gateway.


Agree with EWR. Even though it's actually same distance from Fort Lee/Palisades Park to JFK and EWR, not having to drive through NYC is a plus :p.
 
blockski
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:17 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
FWIW, UAs flight number on EWR-NRT continues to NRT-ICN. ICN was always the largest TPAC hole out of EWR for CO and now UA. This seems like the safer bet out of EWR and ORD for an eastern gateway.


NRT-ICN is ending in October.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:44 pm

blockski wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
FWIW, UAs flight number on EWR-NRT continues to NRT-ICN. ICN was always the largest TPAC hole out of EWR for CO and now UA. This seems like the safer bet out of EWR and ORD for an eastern gateway.


NRT-ICN is ending in October.

I know. Im just stating EWRs case as a second gateway to Korea for UA.
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BlatantEcho
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:49 pm

I just booked (HGH)- ICN-SFO on Air China/Asiana/United

The timings were fine and it worked easily and booked seamlessly (aside from having to call to select my seat with both carriers)
On the way over I'm flying Air China just for the 748i flight.

So, just one data point, but I don't see the issue with Asiana and United banks/routings.
 
westgate
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:48 pm

I was sure that UA, or perhaps CO before the merger, served EWR-ICN at some point, but perhaps not. Am I imagining this or did this route really exist at some point ?!?!
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:21 pm

westgate wrote:
I was sure that UA, or perhaps CO before the merger, served EWR-ICN at some point, but perhaps not. Am I imagining this or did this route really exist at some point ?!?!


UA flew ORD-ICN with an SP in the 80s.
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c933103
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:54 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
How about SFO-PUS 3-4 times per week?


Except what's the demand? South Korea is heavily Seoul-centric, which means any international commerce and tourism basically all go there.

Not to mention, Busan is just not that big (Maybe 5 million counting the like of Gimhae and Changwon). If NGO, which is ~10 million people, can't support a SFO flight (Only TPAC is to HNL, b/c Japanese love going to Hawaii; and DTW, b/c of Toyota), I just don't see how PUS can.

NGO also have Vancouver, and its proximity to KIX
 
c933103
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:00 am

BlatantEcho wrote:
I just booked (HGH)- ICN-SFO on Air China/Asiana/United

The timings were fine and it worked easily and booked seamlessly (aside from having to call to select my seat with both carriers)
On the way over I'm flying Air China just for the 748i flight.

So, just one data point, but I don't see the issue with Asiana and United banks/routings.

but I thought it was about connection bank at SFO instead of ICN?
 
albert648
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:15 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
ICN can fill a 747 from SFO. One of the problems with the route though is flight time is too long for it to make the entire SFO connecting bank. It is the first to leave SFO at about 1050am and last to return arriving after 11am the next day. The Japanese flights leave later and return sooner whereas the Chinese flights have the plane sit on the ground for 18-21 hours. UA tried leaving a plane overnight in ICN for a while, but the fleet utilization is too low when they do that.


If they do decide to fly from elsewhere to ICN, they could always hook SFO-ICN up with that (e.g. SFO-ICN-XXX-ICN-SFO) where ICN-XXX-ICN would be overnight. Delta's doing this with DTW-ICN and ATL-ICN.

Works well with Asiana considering they're going overnight to SFO starting October.
 
hoons90
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:20 am

westgate wrote:
I was sure that UA, or perhaps CO before the merger, served EWR-ICN at some point, but perhaps not. Am I imagining this or did this route really exist at some point ?!?!


Bona-fide CO has never served Korea directly in its entire history. Continental Micronesia flew to Korea until 2001, pulling out shortly after ICN opened.
UA did have the same flight number from EWR-NRT-ICN (UA78/79), but it would be a stretch to call it a direct flight.

I predict that UA will only have a perfunctory presence in the Korea market for the foreseeable future, if at all. Even the SFO-ICN flight has been suspended on and off in the early-to-mid 2000's. If I were a UA loyalist based in Korea (not even sure if there are that many?), I'd consider switching to KE+DL because of the substantially better network out of ICN. A paltry daily SFO flight doesn't really provide for a lot of options...
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:24 pm

NGO also have Vancouver, and its proximity to KIX


Didn't realized the part about YVR (new seasonal route, so...).

On the other hand, NGO is certainly not close to KIX at all. That's like saying PHL is close to LGA.

Not to mention, if someone really want to travel that far to catch a flight, they might as well just ride Shinkansen up to Tokyo. (On the flip side, there are those few HND/NRT-NGO flight for a reason)

(I know, I am getting way off topic)
 
stratacruiser
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Re: Any UA's future Korea route?

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:47 pm

In addition to Asiana, East Coast Star Alliance flyers have a pretty good connecting option using AC through YYZ.

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