WPvsMW
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HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:39 pm

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/3612 ... g-in-hilo'

A rare event for HA 763s. PIC elected HIlo rather than return to HA base at HNL... so the mechanical issue was time sensitive enough to declare emergency and get the gear down.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Geeze. If that map is correct, that really close. When a diversion is required. is mileage the only thing taken into account? With a normal tailwind on that route they may have made LAX just as soon.
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azjubilee
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:24 am

WPvsMW wrote:
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/36120844/hawaiian-airlines-flight-from-kauai-to-los-angeles-makes-emergency-landing-in-hilo'

A rare event for HA 763s. PIC elected HIlo rather than return to HA base at HNL... so the mechanical issue was time sensitive enough to declare emergency and get the gear down.


Uh... yeah... SMOKE anywhere on an airplane, let alone the cockpit is absolutely cause for emergency. They went to Hilo, clearly because it was the "nearest suitable airport."

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Geeze. If that map is correct, that really close. When a diversion is required. is mileage the only thing taken into account? With a normal tailwind on that route they may have made LAX just as soon.


No, mileage is not the only thing considered, especially when over the water and nowhere to go. Fuel, weather, present position vs. ETP, commercial issues, maintenance support issues, crew issues and many more things go into the diversion plan. However, on the flight in question and any flight really, the first priority is getting the aircraft safely on the ground. I suspect they hadn't reached ETP, were closer to ITO than anywhere else and going there was the best decision they thought they could make at the time.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:53 am

The initial report did not mention "smoke" or other cause, just "mechanical".
 
azjubilee
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:21 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
The initial report did not mention "smoke" or other cause, just "mechanical".


Gotcha. HNN must have updated their report after you posted.
 
FlyHossD
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:30 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Geeze. If that map is correct, that really close. When a diversion is required. is mileage the only thing taken into account? With a normal tailwind on that route they may have made LAX just as soon.


In the event of an engine failure (no, not the case here apparently), regulations require landing at the nearest suitable airport in point of time. IOW, the soonest you can land safely and that can allow for interpretation. For example, let's say that you're on a trans-con and near EGE (Eagle, Colorado) when an engine fails - do you divert into EGE - which has plenty of terrain considerations - or DEN, if east of EGE, or MTJ or GJT if west of EGE...? The captain might be asked to defend his or her decision.
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airportugal310
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:58 pm

azjubilee wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The initial report did not mention "smoke" or other cause, just "mechanical".


Gotcha. HNN must have updated their report after you posted.


Surprised they even bothered...HNN is fairly anti-HA IMHO
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WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:45 pm

azjubilee wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
The initial report did not mention "smoke" or other cause, just "mechanical".


Gotcha. HNN must have updated their report after you posted.


HNN often updates, since they are online-only. If updated, it carries a "Published" entry, and an "Updated" entry below the title, as the linked report does.
 
weekendppl
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:17 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
In the event of an engine failure (no, not the case here apparently), regulations require landing at the nearest suitable airport in point of time. IOW, the soonest you can land safely and that can allow for interpretation. For example, let's say that you're on a trans-con and near EGE (Eagle, Colorado) when an engine fails - do you divert into EGE - which has plenty of terrain considerations - or DEN, if east of EGE, or MTJ or GJT if west of EGE...? The captain might be asked to defend his or her decision.

If you are at cruise altitude overhead EGE, or flying, say, a 777, or aren't recently qualified for flying into EGE, EGE probably doesn't seem suitable. That's why they add the word suitable in the first place.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:53 pm

weekendppl wrote:
FlyHossD wrote:
In the event of an engine failure (no, not the case here apparently), regulations require landing at the nearest suitable airport in point of time. IOW, the soonest you can land safely and that can allow for interpretation. For example, let's say that you're on a trans-con and near EGE (Eagle, Colorado) when an engine fails - do you divert into EGE - which has plenty of terrain considerations - or DEN, if east of EGE, or MTJ or GJT if west of EGE...? The captain might be asked to defend his or her decision.

If you are at cruise altitude overhead EGE, or flying, say, a 777, or aren't recently qualified for flying into EGE, EGE probably doesn't seem suitable. That's why they add the word suitable in the first place.


Correct.

Also it's nearest suitable airport within reason. If I'm heading East over EGE at FL360 it and lose an engine time doesn't stop....based on a 3:1 glide slope it would take me 150 miles to hit dirt. So nearest suitable airport is anything I Can safely get in AND out of, and go around if necessary within 150 miles. There is no rule that says you have to plummet out of the sky to the airport right below you.

In this case HTO is an ETOPS ALT because it is the closest airport to the West coast. If the weather is adequate that is where you are expected, and flight planned with fuel, to go in the event of an emergency.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:20 am

...ITO...

Main runway 8/26 is 9,800 ft × 150 ft (2,987 m × 46 m) ... used occasionally by C-5 Galaxy transports for touch and goes, and to serve the Army training area (PTA), whose airfield (PHSF, Bradshaw AAF, R9/27 is 3695' x 90') can handle C-17s but not C-5s.

No one knows why the IATA code is ITO. Most likely it is named after one of the first station managers for HA, a Mr. Ito; alternative theory: HIL was not available, and "ito" sounds like "heelo".
 
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usxguy
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:59 am

276 passengers + crew on a 767, holy moly. I didn't realize they got that many onboard.
xx
 
azjubilee
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:05 am

usxguy wrote:
276 passengers + crew on a 767, holy moly. I didn't realize they got that many onboard.


In HAL's leisure configuration it's very possible. Unless the news got the numbers wrong, sounds like the flight was at capacity. 18F, 241Y, 10 crew. 7 lap children would be the only possibility to bring it up to 276.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:07 am

WPvsMW wrote:
...ITO...

Main runway 8/26 is 9,800 ft × 150 ft (2,987 m × 46 m) ... used occasionally by C-5 Galaxy transports for touch and goes, and to serve the Army training area (PTA), whose airfield (PHSF, Bradshaw AAF, R9/27 is 3695' x 90') can handle C-17s but not C-5s.

No one knows why the IATA code is ITO. Most likely it is named after one of the first station managers for HA, a Mr. Ito; alternative theory: HIL was not available, and "ito" sounds like "heelo".


PHTO is the ICAO identifier
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:04 am

PHSF is Bradshaw AAF.
PHTO is Hilo Intl Airport.
 
theSFOspotter
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:58 am

Isnt ITO the main etops airport for anything leaving and going to hawaii? Assuming theyre still running both engines.
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CriticalPoint
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:13 am

theSFOspotter wrote:
Isnt ITO the main etops airport for anything leaving and going to hawaii? Assuming theyre still running both engines.


Yes. But ETOPS means single engine so you don't need both to land in PHTO.
 
727200
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:28 am

Thank God everyone and everything ok; but I'm sure raised the BP of the crew. HA still flying 767's? I thought they had gone to all AB fleet.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:12 am

Roger the point about crew (and pax) BP. Smoke in the cockpit just shy of the mid-point of a TPAC stage.... 2hr20min of white knuckles back to ITO.

Per AvHerald, the U-turn was ~1000nm NE of ITO.... closer to ITO than LAX.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4ace39da
 
hz747300
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:27 am

Maybe Boeing and Airbus should build an artificial island in between Hawaii and the US Mainland with a 10-thousand foot runway with U-Turn circles at each end and a motel.
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TOGA10
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:38 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Roger the point about crew (and pax) BP. Smoke in the cockpit just shy of the mid-point of a TPAC stage.... 2hr20min of white knuckles back to ITO.

Per AvHerald, the U-turn was ~1000nm NE of ITO.... closer to ITO than LAX.
http://avherald.com/h?article=4ace39da

White knuckles indeed. Lot of water between you and some tarmac to put her on!
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8598033649
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:21 pm

Glad they landed safe. Smoke , requires the closet airport...
 
bzcat
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:44 pm

azjubilee wrote:
usxguy wrote:
276 passengers + crew on a 767, holy moly. I didn't realize they got that many onboard.


In HAL's leisure configuration it's very possible. Unless the news got the numbers wrong, sounds like the flight was at capacity. 18F, 241Y, 10 crew. 7 lap children would be the only possibility to bring it up to 276.


7 lap children would be pretty normal to/from Hawaii.

727200 wrote:
Thank God everyone and everything ok; but I'm sure raised the BP of the crew. HA still flying 767's? I thought they had gone to all AB fleet.


The leased 767 are gone. The HA owned one are supposed to be leaving when A358s arrive (which was supposed to be right about now). Given A358 was cancelled and A338 is not scheduled for delivery until 2019, HA will be flying 767 for a little longer.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:10 pm

And longer if HA issues the rumored "350 or 787" RFP, which means no 338s. A corollary being if Airbus doesn't build the A338.
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azjubilee
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Re: HA 763 LIH-LAX emerg. landing in ITO

Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:52 pm

bzcat wrote:
The leased 767 are gone. The HA owned one are supposed to be leaving when A358s arrive (which was supposed to be right about now). Given A358 was cancelled and A338 is not scheduled for delivery until 2019, HA will be flying 767 for a little longer.


Not quite. The lone ex-LTU plane is still on lease. HA just sold and leased back 580, 581 and 582 to prepare for their retirement. This means all 767s are leased except 594, the last ex DL plane. All 767s will be retired by the end of 2018. The fleet has slowly dwindled since 2011 at its peak of 18 frames. The last 8 will be replaced by the remaining 330 on order (#24) and the 321neo's (18). The battle for 350 vs. 787 remains to be seen in what context... growth or refleeting.

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