VCy
Topic Author
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A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:58 pm

A3 is ending the nonstop LCA-LHR-LCA run in October. I've heard that the slot was owned by VS and they are returning it. I was wondering, if this is true, is VS only allowed to use the slot for an EU route?
 
rutankrd
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:54 pm

Nope VS can use it anywhere or if more economical re lease or sell it on as they see fit.

Only BA remedial slots currently with Flybe have restrictions on their use.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:27 pm

Virgin do well in the caribbean, susprised they have not tried out the likes of Seychelles, Maldives, Phuket or Mauritius under their holiday packages.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:52 pm

With a 19:40 arrival time and 20:45 departure time, I doubt the slots are practically useful for VS anymore.

The could be leased to another airline or handed back (which VS has done in the past.)
 
EddieDude
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:19 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
With a 19:40 arrival time and 20:45 departure time, I doubt the slots are practically useful for VS anymore.

Could routes and schedules of VS+DL be rejigged a bit (among current slots possessed by both of them), and more W-patterns introduced in their operation, so as to find these slots use?
Upcoming AF MEX-CDG-DEL-CDG-MEX A380, A332, 77W. Old J.
 
rutankrd
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:25 pm

Just about the only use for VS/DL of those slots is a day time Boston rotation me thinks, especially as DL doesn't want VS to go East.

Or its re-leasing out to and a good candidate would be Jet on an Indian rotation imho
 
metroline2006
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:20 pm

If I recall this slot was used by G-VATH to Athens Vs1000/1 iirc
 
OlympicATH
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:51 pm

How certain is it that A3 will be returning the slot?
I'm surprised this didn't work out for A3. The times are quite convenient (A3 has a successful flight from ATH roughly at the same time) and while Cobalt has added a lot of capacity from LCA to London, they don't fly to LHR so I thought this wouldn't hurt A3.
Perhaps it is hard for them to break even with what they are paying VS for the slot?
 
Cunard
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:36 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Virgin do well in the caribbean, susprised they have not tried out the likes of Seychelles, Maldives, Phuket or Mauritius under their holiday packages.


Virgin Atlantic VS have tried Mauritius in the past but it barely lasted two seasons.

Out of those destinations it is the Seychelles that surprises me by not having a connection to London anymore although I have always expected British Airways to announce a return of LGW to Mahe.
 
Carfield
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:47 pm

A bit wishful thinking...

Maybe Virgin Atlantic can lease it to Hong Kong Airlines for a Heathrow rotation. While I am sure HX wants redeye flights, they will live with a daytime rotation, plus the return flight schedule is okay. They can even do a codeshare with VS.

Based on that timing, I am sure some Asian airlines especially PRC carriers might be interested.

Carfield
 
Andy33
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:01 am

But VS have their own service to HKG which departs at 21:55. Why would they want to assist a competitor to enter the same market with a timing that's very close to their own?
And can you in fact turn an intercontinental flight in 55 minutes at an airport as congested as LHR?
 
rutankrd
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:42 am

One thing quite possible here and that doesn't seem to be touched on is the simple possibility that the Aegean lease period has expired and the slots are returned automatically.

Also people are labouring on the timings for the current summer slot period when in fact are are two differing seasons of slots allocations.

Both of these dynamics could change the value /usability quotient.

Again I suspect VS/DL will be looking at best return and with the ever closer ties with the new friends in India I still think a lease to Jet the most likely outcome.
 
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OA940
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:07 am

Why didn't it work out? Was it because of Cobalt?
A350/CSeries = bae
 
APYu
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:14 am

Andy33 wrote:
But VS have their own service to HKG which departs at 21:55. Why would they want to assist a competitor to enter the same market with a timing that's very close to their own?

Because in return they'd get access to connections in the region to boost their own services, including a link to virgin Australia's HKG-MEL service, and HX services to AKL.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
VCy
Topic Author
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:48 pm

OA940 wrote:
Why didn't it work out? Was it because of Cobalt?


Possibly! Cobalt is also launching Gatwick in Octber in addition to Stansted.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:11 pm

Andy33 wrote:
But VS have their own service to HKG which departs at 21:55. Why would they want to assist a competitor to enter the same market with a timing that's very close to their own?
And can you in fact turn an intercontinental flight in 55 minutes at an airport as congested as LHR?


From what I heard VS plan to end their HKG service soon and letting Hong Kong Airlines to use the LHR slot,
in return, they will codeshare with HX, which have strong cooperation with VA.
 
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OA940
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:54 am

VCy wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Why didn't it work out? Was it because of Cobalt?


Possibly! Cobalt is also launching Gatwick in Octber in addition to Stansted.


At least someone is doing well...
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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mercure1
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:06 pm

According to an email newsbrief:

Aegean Airlines (Greece) plans to close its Larnaca – London Heathrow route due ongoing losses related to high costs associated with operating at Heathrow. Carrier is looking at cheaper alternatives for its London routes.

Will A3 leave LHR in favor of LGW, STN, LTN?
 
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TheLion
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:59 pm

mercure1 wrote:
According to an email newsbrief:

Aegean Airlines (Greece) plans to close its Larnaca – London Heathrow route due ongoing losses related to high costs associated with operating at Heathrow. Carrier is looking at cheaper alternatives for its London routes.

Will A3 leave LHR in favor of LGW, STN, LTN?


Understandable, if slightly disappointing, for what is basically a VFR and leisure route.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:18 am

rutankrd wrote:
especially as DL doesn't want VS to go East.

Which is something often stated, but never actually substantiated.


hongkongflyer wrote:
From what I heard

...from ____?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
amadorE175
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
rutankrd wrote:
especially as DL doesn't want VS to go East.

Which is something often stated, but never actually substantiated.


Yeah, I've seen people say this too but I'm honestly curious about VS's operations going East. When was the last time they added a route (or even a frequency) outside of the US? Their online route map has only six non-US destinations.
 
skipness1E
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:16 am

Going East takes you into ME3 territory. VS used to be aimed at being a good choice to BA on plum routes, this failed when BA et al got into alliances. Remember SRB saw alliances as anti competitive and fought tooth and nail against them, despite offering way more seamless choice and connections. He knew they would squeeze VS from being a strong competitor to BA to being #3/4/5 choice as more alliance options became available. Like NRT when BA/JL grew closer or ORD with BA/AA coming together. Those plum routes got way harder to break into, see also YYZ and later YVR. The old ways didn't work and having failed to beat them, SRB had to join them in allowing VS to become an arm of DL in effect. There's no win going East alone or going West without strong DL support.
 
amadorE175
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:46 am

skipness1E wrote:
Going East takes you into ME3 territory. VS used to be aimed at being a good choice to BA on plum routes, this failed when BA et al got into alliances. Remember SRB saw alliances as anti competitive and fought tooth and nail against them, despite offering way more seamless choice and connections. He knew they would squeeze VS from being a strong competitor to BA to being #3/4/5 choice as more alliance options became available. Like NRT when BA/JL grew closer or ORD with BA/AA coming together. Those plum routes got way harder to break into, see also YYZ and later YVR. The old ways didn't work and having failed to beat them, SRB had to join them in allowing VS to become an arm of DL in effect. There's no win going East alone or going West without strong DL support.


I suppose, then, that the only probable route going east is ICN where they can get help from KE and DL.
 
skipness1E
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:02 am

Strategically, why would you have one single route going in the opposite direction from all the rest? ICN is a route that BA struggle on, it was brought back in 2012 and remains a B787 against Korean Air operating a B77W/A388/B748 mix. Not sure KE would welcome VS into that fight at all.
I think Virgin Atlantic will be living up to their name in future, they'll be supporing Delta on the North Atlantic where sensible and have a completely disconnected operation at Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast supporting Virgin Holidays with almost no synergy with Delta.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:42 am

skipness1E wrote:
I think Virgin Atlantic will be living up to their name in future, they'll be supporing Delta on the North Atlantic where sensible and have a completely disconnected operation at Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast supporting Virgin Holidays with almost no synergy with Delta.


I'd be surprised if VS gave up ATL or JFK from MAN. Obviously in the long term who knows, but in the short to mid term these feel reasonably secure (SQ to IAH has brought some pressure on ATL).
 
skipness1E
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:54 am

MAN-ATL falls under "supporting Delta on the North Atlantic where sensible"
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: A3 returning LHR-LCA-LHR slots to VS?

Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:19 am

skipness1E wrote:
MAN-ATL falls under "supporting Delta on the North Atlantic where sensible"


Apologies - misunderstood your point.

I read "completely disconnected operation at Gatwick, Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast supporting Virgin Holidays with almost no synergy with Delta" as meaning VS would retreat to the Caribbean, Florida and other bucket and spade routes...

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