• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 23
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 21950
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:30 pm

Decision is out.

BREAKING: U.S. Dept of Commerce backs @Boeing in dispute with @Bombardier.
Imposes tariffs on sales of CSeries jet into U.S. market.
Commerce Dept. calculated a preliminary subsidy rate of 219.63 percent for Bombardier

https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 8106497026
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:41 pm

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... er-boeing/

With trade "Partners" like the U.S. who needs Enemies.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:42 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:


Bombardier gets the money to get sound financials back. They can then get back the RJ and turbo prop business, Quebec gets it's part back with money or the promise of maintaining a product line there so many decades. The US is happy due to the content thats made here and the possibility that the some 300s and the 500s will be produced here. The UK is happy because Ireland will still make parts.



If Boeing bought the CSeries (unlikely), good luck with Boeing keeping their promises:

In the 1980s, the Government of Canada privatized DHC and in 1986 sold the aircraft company to then Seattle-based Boeing. The government claimed to have guarantees from Boeing not to discontinue any product lines, but shortly thereafter, Boeing discontinued both the successful Twin Otter and the Dash 7. The jigs and specialised equipment for their manufacture were destroyed.


Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:43 pm

If Boeing's reasoning holds up then only those manufacturers who sell product as old and decrepit as the 737 airframes where development costs have been already been amortized will be able to sell in to the U.S.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:46 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Decision is out.

BREAKING: U.S. Dept of Commerce backs @Boeing in dispute with @Bombardier.
Imposes tariffs on sales of CSeries jet into U.S. market.
Commerce Dept. calculated a preliminary subsidy rate of 219.63 percent for Bombardier

https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 8106497026


Congratulations to Embraer, they can now have the 100-130 seat market to themselves! There will some parties in Brazil tonight, that's for sure. :praise:


Also, it is time to sell BBD to COMAC and give the Chinese access to Western technology. Maybe that'll help COMAC in eventually becoming a viable 3rd option (although I prefer Russian aircraft, they seem to have many sanctions against them).
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 21950
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:50 pm

The tariffs will apply to all U.S. C-series sales.
Upon export of any aircraft to US clients, BBD will be required to pay cash deposits in amounts equal to preliminary subsidy tariff.


In Boeing victory, Commerce Dept. slaps massive tariff on rival small jets from Bombardier
http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... er-boeing/

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:51 pm

If I were Embraer(or any manufacturer based in a non-world power Country) I'd be very worried. The U.S. Administration have shown their willingness to tear up any trade accord to benefit U.S. companies.
They were talking about throwing out NAFTA so that cars would be manufactured in the U.S. rather than Mexico and Mexico was preferable to Brazil as there weren't trade barriers for car building.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 21950
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:55 pm

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:56 pm

leghorn wrote:
If I were Embraer(or any manufacturer based in a non-world power Country) I'd be very worried. The U.S. Administration have shown their willingness to tear up any trade accord to benefit U.S. companies.
They were talking about throwing out NAFTA so that cars would be manufactured in the U.S. rather than Mexico and Mexico was preferable to Brazil as there weren't trade barriers for car building.


Boeing nor the US will complain about Embraer, Embraer is sticking to their niche, away from the likes of Boeing/Airbus. I don't believe Embraer has been involved in any dumping, and their patience has paid off. Now that BBD has been effectively wiped out of the US market, Embraer can call the shots and charge a premium.
Last edited by LockheedBBD on Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jagraham
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:57 pm

Planesmart wrote:
incitatus wrote:
Now, if the C series is really awesome, why is it being sold at super low prices?

Because Boeing was offering the 737 at super low prices.


Between the Delta offer and the United order (where Boeing practically gave away 737-700s to keep Cseries out of United) Boeing is on shaky ground dumping wise. Plus, it may be that BBD wrote off any chance of recovering development costs as opposed to pricing below actual production.
 
yyztpa
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:10 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:59 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
LAXintl wrote:

219.63%!!!
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 3627
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:01 pm

Bravo.

The nationalization of the C-series program stunk to no end, but then to use that financial lifeline as a crutch to dump product in a foreign market was one step too far.
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:04 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
leghorn wrote:
If I were Embraer(or any manufacturer based in a non-world power Country) I'd be very worried. The U.S. Administration have shown their willingness to tear up any trade accord to benefit U.S. companies.
They were talking about throwing out NAFTA so that cars would be manufactured in the U.S. rather than Mexico and Mexico was preferable to Brazil as there weren't trade barriers for car building.


Boeing nor the US will complain about Embraer, Embraer is sticking to their niche, away from the likes of Boeing/Airbus. I don't believe Embraer has been involved in any dumping, and their patience has paid off. Now that BBD has been effectively wiped out of the US market, Embraer can call the shots and charge a premium.

You don't seem to understand the message that the U.S. Administration is sending to U.S. industry.
If it is a profitable niche then U.S. Administration will move mountains to deliver the niche to U.S. industry.
If Industry can crunch the numbers and figure that a captured U.S. market gets them most of the way to break even on a product which they can sell elsewhere then they will be incentivised to move in to that niche.
Brazil has no particularly special or sacrosanct trade agreements with the U.S. and even if they did the Administration could concoct reasons to set them aside. garnish their arguments with servings of jingoism and they brazen it out in front of what is really a very partizan domestic audience.
 
User avatar
Maxvokia
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 4:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:07 pm

So is the duty based on the list price or the price DL got?
 
trex8
Posts: 4893
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:08 pm

IF BBD started an assembly line in the US how does that affect the duty?
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:12 pm

Maxvokia wrote:
So is the duty based on the list price or the price DL got?

I believe it is on the purchase price ("the price DL got").
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:13 pm

trex8 wrote:
IF BBD started an assembly line in the US how does that affect the duty?

Look at the US dept of commerce website news page. They don't just want production lines in the U.S., they want 80% local content.
Trump and his advisors believe as much in Free Trade as they do in Climate Change and treating women respectfully.
 
User avatar
FoxtrotSierra
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:06 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:16 pm

Delta will now feel the wrath of protectionism over subsidies from the other side. It’s all fun and games until it hurts you. It sucks to be DL, but the hypocrisy of their behavior toward the ME3 is incredibly ironic seeing as they’re siding with BBD on subsidies when it benefits them, while railing against the ME3 for the same thing when it’s competition.

No one wins in protectionism. This is *exactly* how you destroy trade with other countries. I am simultaneously sad and happy that DL got what it deserved with regard to their position on subsidies. That said, I cannot believe that the US Gov imposed a 220% tariff. This has to be the worst time ever to be a US business that has any interest in selling/trading products with other countries with threats like this.
 
airnorth
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:16 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Decision is out.

BREAKING: U.S. Dept of Commerce backs @Boeing in dispute with @Bombardier.
Imposes tariffs on sales of CSeries jet into U.S. market.
Commerce Dept. calculated a preliminary subsidy rate of 219.63 percent for Bombardier

https://twitter.com/dominicgates/status ... 8106497026



Lemme see....219.63%...yup! Seems about right! The funny thing is, there will be people that say that, this makes perfect sense.
Ruckin fidiculous.
 
trex8
Posts: 4893
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:22 pm

leghorn wrote:
trex8 wrote:
IF BBD started an assembly line in the US how does that affect the duty?

Look at the US dept of commerce website news page. They don't just want production lines in the U.S., they want 80% local content.
Trump and his advisors believe as much in Free Trade as they do in Climate Change and treating women respectfully.

Hmmm 80% local content? Whats the duty going to be on 787s and 777Xs then??
 
leghorn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:24 pm

trex8 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
trex8 wrote:
IF BBD started an assembly line in the US how does that affect the duty?

Look at the US dept of commerce website news page. They don't just want production lines in the U.S., they want 80% local content.
Trump and his advisors believe as much in Free Trade as they do in Climate Change and treating women respectfully.

Hmmm 80% local content? Whats the duty going to be on 787s and 777Xs then??

Don't argue with me. Go look at the commerce news page. The Trump dogma is there; they don't just want the production lines, they want it all.
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:26 pm

trex8 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
trex8 wrote:
IF BBD started an assembly line in the US how does that affect the duty?

Look at the US dept of commerce website news page. They don't just want production lines in the U.S., they want 80% local content.
Trump and his advisors believe as much in Free Trade as they do in Climate Change and treating women respectfully.

Hmmm 80% local content? Whats the duty going to be on 787s and 777Xs then??


Maybe BBD should move their head office and incorporate in the US? :duck:
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 3627
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:33 pm

BBD has much bad new today..

BBD was trying to woo French train-maker Alstom SA into a joint venture to help save BBD plant in Europe, instead Alstom and German Siemens tonight announce merger of rail divisions leaving BBD out in the cold.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/alstom-sie ... 1506458300
 
User avatar
FoxtrotSierra
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:06 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:33 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
trex8 wrote:
leghorn wrote:
Look at the US dept of commerce website news page. They don't just want production lines in the U.S., they want 80% local content.
Trump and his advisors believe as much in Free Trade as they do in Climate Change and treating women respectfully.

Hmmm 80% local content? Whats the duty going to be on 787s and 777Xs then??


Maybe BBD should move their head office and incorporate in the US? :duck:


Or DL should set up a Canadian division.
 
User avatar
zckls04
Posts: 2754
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:40 pm

So this means a $19.6m per unit sale to Delta would actually cost them $63m per unit? Or am I misunderstanding? That seems unjustifiably high given the way aircraft programs are structured cost-wise. Nobody sells for 79% of list, do they?

Also, what does an "interim tariff" mean? Would the Delta sale be subject to this tarriff, or does the February decision regarding injury to Boeing have to be made first?
Four Granavox Turbines!
 
User avatar
BoeingVista
Posts: 1864
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:46 pm

zckls04 wrote:
So this means a $19.6m per unit sale to Delta would actually cost them $63m per unit? Or am I misunderstanding? That seems unjustifiably high given the way aircraft programs are structured cost-wise. Nobody sells for 79% of list, do they?

Also, what does an "interim tariff" mean? Would the Delta sale be subject to this tarriff, or does the February decision regarding injury to Boeing have to be made first?


You are misunderstanding, DOT wants this tariff applied on list prices so a CS100 would cost about $120m in the US!
BV
 
surfdog75
Posts: 263
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:47 pm

Can't imagine Delta ordering a Boeing product in the near future after this. Great news for Airbus. If they invested more in engineers (recently laid off 100) maybe they would have a product that could have competed with the C series. Instead they have a tired apollo era 737 stretched to insanity. Sad day for aviation.
Last edited by surfdog75 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Jayafe
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:47 pm

Really sad day. Shame on Boeing, shame on the States, pure hypocrites. Just shouting “free market-free trade” as long the balance falls on their side. When it doesn’t, just blowing up the field until it does. I just hope DL and Canada punishes this kind of behaviour with their wallets. Not the first time, hopefully one of the last ones. Real shame....
Last edited by Jayafe on Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SonomaFlyer
Posts: 2061
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:55 pm

surfdog75 wrote:
Can't imagine Delta ordering a Boeing product in the near future after this. Great news for Airbus. If they invested more in engineers (recently laid off 100) maybe they would have a product that could have competed with the C series. Instead they have a tired apollo era 737 stretched to insanity.


I wonder how thoroughly Boeing thought through this tactic. Canada can and likely will cancel its SuperHornet order ($5.4b), the U.K. might also take issue given the C Series wings are made in Northern Ireland.

Delta is a pragmatic company but that is due to their successful business model and their adept negotiation tactics with manufacturers. To say they are annoyed at Boeing is an understatement.

This is only a preliminary finding and there is more to this drama but this may not benefit Boeing in the end.
 
KLDC10
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:15 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:55 pm

surfdog75 wrote:
Can't imagine Delta ordering a Boeing product in the near future after this. Great news for Airbus. If they invested more in engineers (recently laid off a bunch) maybe they would have a product that could have competed with the C series. Instead they have a tired apollo era 737 streatched to insanity.


I'm not an Airbus fanboy by any stretch, but I'd be fully supportive if Delta never bought another Boeing airplane again. A 219% tariff is purely vindictive.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146/Q400/737/738/739/752/763/772/A320/A321/A332/A333/E175/E190
 
multimark
Posts: 421
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:04 am

A disgusting decision. I hope the Canadian military rules out any future Boeing purchases ASAP and the gov't leans hard on Air Canada to pass on Boeing products.
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:06 am

jagraham wrote:
Between the Delta offer and the United order (where Boeing practically gave away 737-700s to keep Cseries out of United) Boeing is on shaky ground dumping wise. Plus, it may be that BBD wrote off any chance of recovering development costs as opposed to pricing below actual production.


Boeing is certainly lavishly subsidized and they certainly did exactly the same thing with United as BBD did with Delta...but that's not dumping since they're domestic sales. It's just unbelievable hypocrisy.

multimart wrote:
A disgusting decision. I hope the Canadian military rules out any future Boeing purchases ASAP and the gov't leans hard on Air Canada to pass on Boeing products.


+1
 
Jetsouth
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:10 am

With a tariff this large, it basically blocks any US airline from buying a foreign-built plane between 100-150 seats. As there are no domestically built planes built specifically for this size range, basically it probably will be uneconomic for any US airlines to buy planes in this size range. The only alternative for this size range is if they buy 737-700's. Although these jets are not as economic as the CS series, US airlines will have no choice but to buy this jet as the alternatives will cost too much due to this duty. Basically Boeing has now opened itself to a large US market requiring jets in the size range of 100-150 seats. No wonder they fought for this duty. The loss of a potential order from the Canadian Government for fighter jets is peanuts to the size of the market they just made for themselves in the States.
 
User avatar
rikkus67
Posts: 1191
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2000 11:34 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:12 am

So, please enlighten me on how an aircraft that is BELOW the size of anything Boeing now offers, is hurting Boeing in any way? Boeing has sold over 10,000 737's in its production run. Bombardier has sold less than 400 CSeries. Obviously it was easier to go after BBD rather than Airbus. Don't tell me that Boeing hasn't brokered deals, or has had government subsidies in its lifetime. Pure protectionism at its ugliest, and this will have far reaching effects well past the aviation industry. This is history repeating itself... Can anyone say AVRO CF105 Arrow and C102 Jetliner (like the USA didn't have a say in that program ending...)?! TUCK FRUMP.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
Jetsouth
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:12 am

Will the Delta order for CSeries still go ahead with these tariffs?
 
SteelChair
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:15 am

Delta CEO stated a few months ago that the decision would have no effect upon the order. Not sure how he can make that happen with this ruling, but I'm guessing that there are options
 
User avatar
FoxtrotSierra
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:06 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:16 am

Jetsouth wrote:
Will the Delta order for CSeries still go ahead with these tariffs?


Yes, but it will be purely symbolic as revenge against Boeing.
 
planespotter20
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:17 am

Boeing will end up paying the most in the end. Because what goes around comes around. As many have said, they’ve pissed off Canada and Delta, and that’s a start.

With the narrow body delta order coming soon, I wonder what will happen then...

But, If Boeing finds this as an effective tool, and they can lure the us government to tax anything that much, what’s stopping them from declaring price dumping on airbus/BBD orders in the future? I’m sure that the prices delta got were not super absurdly low compared to some of Boeing’s and airbus deals..

If the US government considers a 50% or more discount by a foreign aircraft manufacturer as “price dumping,” and boeing deciders to claim them as these, then I don’t see many airbus deals happening soon in the US.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 10240
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:17 am

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:20 am

Boeing literally received an $8.7 billion tax break from Washington State alone. That's on top of the untold billions in hidden subsidies through basically no cost control on military programs, and the rigged tanker deal. The Quebec government bought half the CSeries program at well below its development cost. If anything, they struck a pretty hard bargain. It's far less of a blatant subsidy than what Boeing gets.

One of the biggest problems BBD faces is the inexplicable hostility from the English Canadian business community and English Canada more generally. There's no other country in the world where the country's largest high technology exporter--a company that has created an entire segment of the aerospace industry--is treated as a pariah. We've certainly seen here how the US government treats Boeing and we can be sure there'll be nary a peep from the ostensible free market ideologues in the States, even though their counterparts in Canada scream every time Bombardier gets even the slightest government support.

I don't think we'd ever see them going after Airbus in this way. The Europeans would make sure the Americans paid ten times over. With Canada, the cost will be comparatively small--and they'll have a big part of English Canada cheering them on. Then again, Canada is the largest destination for US exports--as big as the entire EU combined. It could certainly make the Americans hurt, but any Canadian government defending Bombardier would face hell in the Canadian media.

In terms of options for Delta, shifting the sale of the aircraft to a foreign incorporated company (probably not Canadian so it could keep export financing) and then leasing them to Delta could be an option. The protectionists in the US government might be angered by the blatant circumvention, but are they actually willing to directly take on one big American company to subsidize another?
Last edited by YYZLGA on Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
Leslieville
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:34 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:25 am

Unbelievable. I'm honestly speechless and scared for what this type of arrogant economic nationalism, protectionism, and crony capitalism will mean for the relationship between our two countries. For 35 US states, Canada is the largest trading partner, and nationally, only China surpasses Canada in value of trade with the US. There is long-simmering regional anger with the US for its persistent trade disputes with Canada, particularly softwood lumber, and time and again the NAFTA and WTO tribunals side with the Canadian position but the Commerce Department keeps going to bat for industry.
 
trex8
Posts: 4893
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:26 am

SteelChair wrote:
Delta CEO stated a few months ago that the decision would have no effect upon the order. Not sure how he can make that happen with this ruling, but I'm guessing that there are options

They're paying the duty by saving money by not taking delivery of 739ERs!
 
User avatar
ACCS300
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:26 am

Appalling!! I'm suddenly and no-longer a fan of anything Boeing as I'm sure a lot of my Canadian colleagues are. I hope AC never orders another US product and again, the same goes for Westjet. ...and I hope the rest of the world supports BBD and their fantastic product. There's lot of world outside what's becoming a crazy and erratic neighbour to our south, I hope Canada learns from this and continues to put 100% of our efforts into forging ties around the world with countries who support trade and don't close their borders through hypocrisy and protectionism.
 
treetreeseven
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:28 am

Maybe this is Boeing's way of making up for the slow-motion bloodbath going on since SpaceX pooped in the United Launch Alliance gravy train :duck:
 
queb
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:10 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:28 am

Calm down, it's an interim ruling pending final judgment from the USITC in February 2018, no Cseries will be delivered in US by then.
 
User avatar
thekorean
Posts: 1653
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:32 am

Surely US manufacturers involved in CSeries has to appeal?
 
User avatar
LockheedBBD
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:40 am

Jetsouth wrote:
With a tariff this large, it basically blocks any US airline from buying a foreign-built plane between 100-150 seats. As there are no domestically built planes built specifically for this size range, basically it probably will be uneconomic for any US airlines to buy planes in this size range. The only alternative for this size range is if they buy 737-700's. Although these jets are not as economic as the CS series, US airlines will have no choice but to buy this jet as the alternatives will cost too much due to this duty. Basically Boeing has now opened itself to a large US market requiring jets in the size range of 100-150 seats. No wonder they fought for this duty. The loss of a potential order from the Canadian Government for fighter jets is peanuts to the size of the market they just made for themselves in the States.


I think you're forgetting about Embraer's E195-E2. I'm sure that is the aircraft that many US airlines will now buy if they were considering the CSeries.
 
micstatic
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:41 am

I would think that the pure heavy tariff is so egregious that now the us govt and surely Boeing are open to some kind of international legal scrutiny? So many examples. But the United order. Can bombardier retaliate with that?
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
downdata
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:41 am

Crazy that Boeing themselves asked for a 79% duty and DOC handed a 219% tariff!
 
User avatar
ACCS300
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Re: Boeing targets Bombardier for “price dumping” CSeries

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:41 am

Huge loss for US carriers as well as they've lost a potentially highly-effective and highly profitable machine and now have to settle for perhaps something far less optimal than other carriers with have in their fleets for decades to come.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 23

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos