• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:00 pm

VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:52 pm

Forum Moderator
 
redroo
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:54 pm

qf789 wrote:
VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z



That's bad ! It's not like there are many options in the Pilbara.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:53 pm

log0008 wrote:
Oh and LAN805 has appeared south of Tassie

Image


Images like that remind me how fascinating the great circle aspect of aviation routes can be. Thats a pretty 'low' flight - i.e. low on the globe.

Here is the GCmap of the track

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=mel-scl
 
waoz1
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:00 am

Well reading a couple of things re Ethiopian

Apparently they are looking at 2020 for Perth (shock horror), however waiting on more A350s, getting code share agreement with Virgin so they can ferry passengers east.

Also WA Premier is in China and Japan this month expect something about Perth-Shanghai flights (China Eastern) and possible Perth-Tokyo.
 
waoz1
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:04 am

Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80
 
redroo
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:13 am

waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80



Odd design. Another bolt on here. Another bolt on there.

Wouldn't it have been better to just extend (and widen) the terminal round into a horse shoe shape?

Instead we're going to end up with the shed, the old international, the virgin pier bolt on, the new pier bolt on... and probably a few more bolts on to come.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4722
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:05 am

redroo wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80



Odd design. Another bolt on here. Another bolt on there.

Wouldn't it have been better to just extend (and widen) the terminal round into a horse shoe shape?

Instead we're going to end up with the shed, the old international, the virgin pier bolt on, the new pier bolt on... and probably a few more bolts on to come.


Always been the plan to mirror MEL add-on shed.

Perth airport overall masterplan. 65 gates + 3 runways

Image

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:35 am

Qantas 789 VH-ZNA returning to PAE after C1 flight

Image

https://twitter.com/JenSchuld/status/916436944921313280
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:20 am

EK413 wrote:
redroo wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80



Odd design. Another bolt on here. Another bolt on there.

Wouldn't it have been better to just extend (and widen) the terminal round into a horse shoe shape?

Instead we're going to end up with the shed, the old international, the virgin pier bolt on, the new pier bolt on... and probably a few more bolts on to come.


Always been the plan to mirror MEL add-on shed.

Perth airport overall masterplan. 65 gates + 3 runways

Image

EK413


From the map the add on nature is clear. Nt sure why they wouldnt want to at least go for design symmetry. The INTL peir could be more smoothly connected to T3. Though this is only impacting aesthetics of course.
 
smi0006
Posts: 1443
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:21 am

waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80


This won’t get passed the airlines who in the end fund the master plan, Melbourne is in dire need of expansion and no airlines are willing to sign up for the expenditure. It’s expensive, and why would they want to grow capacity so their competition can fly into the market?
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:34 am

smi0006 wrote:
waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80


This won’t get passed the airlines who in the end fund the master plan, Melbourne is in dire need of expansion and no airlines are willing to sign up for the expenditure. It’s expensive, and why would they want to grow capacity so their competition can fly into the market?


Based on what I have heard what you suggest is the reality at MEL.

The PER plans are significant, but they are only concepts at this stage. MEL released the same style of exciting concept plans a few years ago and that fell flat.

When I look at MEL T4, that is a great example of delivering what the airlines would pay for. Bare bones, limited architectural merit and a glorified shopping/dining waiting area is what you get in that case. It’s perfect for its LCC tenants, but based on earlier plans that I had been made aware of, it is nothing like what it could have been.

The same language is being used by AJ about Badgery’s Creek, which he doesn’t want to see being a ‘Taj Mahal’. It was exactly the same words I heard an airline rep state when MEL was planning T4. Food for thought..

BNE has battled similar issues with resistance from airlines to pay for the new runway a few years ago. It’s a challenge that ultimately hurts the consumers when investment stalls.

Good luck to PER on their plans.
 
jupiter2
Posts: 1178
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2001 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:51 am

waoz1 wrote:
Perth Airport announces $2.5 Billion expansion

Includes
Consolidated terminals
3rd Runway
International Expansion

At current rates the terminals will not meet demand
First part of the expansion is an extension to the international with 70,000 sqm addition and an additional 9 Gates

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western ... 9927d65e80


Looking at that map, too bad if you need to taxi an aircraft from the eastern side to the western, or vv, it will be a long way round.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:55 am

qf789 wrote:
VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z

How interesting - I had no idea that PHE has an international flight. I remember when AN used to fly BME - DPS.

Aside from PHE (with VA), CBR (with SQ), TSV (with PX), MCY (with NZ) and XCH (with GA) are there any other 'smaller' airports in Australia, that have international flights? NLK has just lots its sole international flight, to AKL.

I wonder how long before HBA gets an international service - perhaps to AKL (on NZ or JQ), or to the Middle East via SYD or MEL (like QR are doing with CBR, in order to get more traffic rights to the major cities).

AYQ is another possibility - at 2,569 mi, AYQ - SIN is shorter than CNS - SIN (which MI has operated), and is almost exactly the same distance as PER - KUL (2,563 mi). Perhaps JQ or TZ could look at this route, even if seasonally?

ben175 wrote:
I have no idea why ET or KQ would fly direct to MEL when PER would allow for convenient connections to every single major city in the country.

waoz1 wrote:
I think your right there

V8CHRGD wrote:
Agreed.

Under this logic, why would UL have launched flights to MEL instead of PER? They could have picked up QF connections at PER.

Likewise, why does AI fly to to SYD and MEL, and not to PER? They could have picked up VA connections at PER.

Cheers,

C.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:24 am

planemanofnz wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z

How interesting - I had no idea that PHE has an international flight. I remember when AN used to fly BME - DPS.

Aside from PHE (with VA), CBR (with SQ), TSV (with PX), MCY (with NZ) and XCH (with GA) are there any other 'smaller' airports in Australia, that have international flights? NLK has just lots its sole international flight, to AKL.

I wonder how long before HBA gets an international service - perhaps to AKL (on NZ or JQ), or to the Middle East via SYD or MEL (like QR are doing with CBR, in order to get more traffic rights to the major cities).

AYQ is another possibility - at 2,569 mi, AYQ - SIN is shorter than CNS - SIN (which MI has operated), and is almost exactly the same distance as PER - KUL (2,563 mi). Perhaps JQ or TZ could look at this route, even if seasonally?


There is also talk of Silkair starting both BME-SIN and KTA-SIN

https://thewest.com.au/news/pilbara-new ... b88363099z

ben175 wrote:
I have no idea why ET or KQ would fly direct to MEL when PER would allow for convenient connections to every single major city in the country.

waoz1 wrote:
I think your right there

V8CHRGD wrote:
Agreed.

Under this logic, why would UL have launched flights to MEL instead of PER? They could have picked up QF connections at PER.

Likewise, why does AI fly to to SYD and MEL, and not to PER? They could have picked up VA connections at PER.

Cheers,

C.


There are performance issues to take into consideration for ET which neither AI or UL suffer from. ET operates from its home airport, ADD at an altitude of 7656 feet ASL. As a result they can not operate long sectors from their home airport. Since ET aircraft are configured in a high density they could not operate an ADD-MEL service without having to make it with a stop somewhere. From ADD MEL is just under 6500nm whereas PER is just over 5000nm, ET's longest sector from ADD is to GRU which is 5200nm
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:25 am

Another pic of VH-ZNA returning to PAE

Image

https://twitter.com/royalscottking/stat ... 4031641600
Forum Moderator
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:35 am

planemanofnz wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z

How interesting - I had no idea that PHE has an international flight. I remember when AN used to fly BME - DPS.

Aside from PHE (with VA), CBR (with SQ), TSV (with PX), MCY (with NZ) and XCH (with GA) are there any other 'smaller' airports in Australia, that have international flights? NLK has just lots its sole international flight, to AKL.

I wonder how long before HBA gets an international service - perhaps to AKL (on NZ or JQ), or to the Middle East via SYD or MEL (like QR are doing with CBR, in order to get more traffic rights to the major cities).

AYQ is another possibility - at 2,569 mi, AYQ - SIN is shorter than CNS - SIN (which MI has operated), and is almost exactly the same distance as PER - KUL (2,563 mi). Perhaps JQ or TZ could look at this route, even if seasonally?

ben175 wrote:
I have no idea why ET or KQ would fly direct to MEL when PER would allow for convenient connections to every single major city in the country.

waoz1 wrote:
I think your right there

V8CHRGD wrote:
Agreed.

Under this logic, why would UL have launched flights to MEL instead of PER? They could have picked up QF connections at PER.

Likewise, why does AI fly to to SYD and MEL, and not to PER? They could have picked up VA connections at PER.

Cheers,

C.


Fully agree that the logic only goes so far. It ignores the commercial reality in many cases.
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:38 am

qf789 wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VA has cancelled this weekend's weekly PHE-DPS flight, passengers not happy

https://thewest.com.au/news/north-west- ... b88621738z

How interesting - I had no idea that PHE has an international flight. I remember when AN used to fly BME - DPS.

Aside from PHE (with VA), CBR (with SQ), TSV (with PX), MCY (with NZ) and XCH (with GA) are there any other 'smaller' airports in Australia, that have international flights? NLK has just lots its sole international flight, to AKL.

I wonder how long before HBA gets an international service - perhaps to AKL (on NZ or JQ), or to the Middle East via SYD or MEL (like QR are doing with CBR, in order to get more traffic rights to the major cities).

AYQ is another possibility - at 2,569 mi, AYQ - SIN is shorter than CNS - SIN (which MI has operated), and is almost exactly the same distance as PER - KUL (2,563 mi). Perhaps JQ or TZ could look at this route, even if seasonally?


There is also talk of Silkair starting both BME-SIN and KTA-SIN

https://thewest.com.au/news/pilbara-new ... b88363099z

ben175 wrote:
I have no idea why ET or KQ would fly direct to MEL when PER would allow for convenient connections to every single major city in the country.

waoz1 wrote:
I think your right there

V8CHRGD wrote:
Agreed.

Under this logic, why would UL have launched flights to MEL instead of PER? They could have picked up QF connections at PER.

Likewise, why does AI fly to to SYD and MEL, and not to PER? They could have picked up VA connections at PER.

Cheers,

C.


There are performance issues to take into consideration for ET which neither AI or UL suffer from. ET operates from its home airport, ADD at an altitude of 7656 feet ASL. As a result they can not operate long sectors from their home airport. Since ET aircraft are configured in a high density they could not operate an ADD-MEL service without having to make it with a stop somewhere. From ADD MEL is just under 6500nm whereas PER is just over 5000nm, ET's longest sector from ADD is to GRU which is 5200nm


True about the potential performance issues out of ADD, but it is still interesting that a senior rep has publicly stated that MEL is on their agenda.

One would expect that they would have researched things before stating that, so we will wait and see.
 
ben175
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:42 am

What about ADD-PER-MEL same plane service? Could an international airline gain fifth freedom rights domestically?
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:57 am

ben175 wrote:
What about ADD-PER-MEL same plane service? Could an international airline gain fifth freedom rights domestically?


Not possible.

The only realistic options on the table for ET would be to fly to PER and connect via VA/QF/JQ/TT or to fly non-stop to the East Coast.

Both are an uphill battle in their own way, but it will be interesting to see what they do if they do open an Australian destination.
 
MooLor
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:18 am

Perhaps what is presumably a relatively small airline doesn't want to tie up the extra frame required to fly the transcon segment daily, especially given they wish to fly what is probably their "flagship" A350 over here.

ADD - PER is what, under 12 hours? So 1.25 frames required to do that daily if my math is correct. ADD - SYD is more like 15 hours, tying up two frames.
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2179
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:28 am

Hey guys,
Re : Ethiopian flights to Australia....

They have been assessing the 777X according to media reports and there was a thread on a.net about it months ago. Perhaps the 777-8 was / is being considered for Australian flights as part of that? I vaguely remember reports that the 777X family was considered the front runner over the A350-1000 / more -900s but I don't recall any official announcements being made.
Perhaps QF's Project Sunrise is being discussed in other airlines' boardrooms as well (besides those that will be directly impacted, ie ME3, BA, SIA, China3 etc)... Maybe an enhanced 777-8 / A350-superULH will be ordered by ET? The extra payload lift coupled with Addis Adaba's hot n high requirements may produce a surprising second customer behind QF? Also, isn't the current Addis airport being replaced by one at a lower altitude, and thus would have less strenuous performance issues for airliners and therefore maybe less range issues with direct Australian flights?

Cheers,
Bunumuring

PS: could Boeing's 777-8 development proposals for QF be nicknamed '777SP': 'Special Performance for Sunrise Project'.... A nice throwback to QF's cute little stubby 747SPs from a couple of decades ago?!?!? What about the name 'Catalina' for any possible 777 order, harking back to the plane that inspired the moniker Project Sunrise? Hmmmmm, probably not!
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:49 am

Some more photos of Qantas 789 VH-ZNA returning from C1 flight

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 8627836928
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:54 am

Qantas 789 VH-ZNA undergoing high speed taxi test after stowing RAT

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/sta ... 8701601792
Forum Moderator
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:01 am

Does anyone know more about the XCH - CGK and XCH - KUL charter flights?

Do they operate year-round, and are they subsidised by the Australian government?

qf789 wrote:
There is also talk of Silkair starting both BME-SIN and KTA-SIN

That is so interesting - why are these cities subsidising 'scheduled charter flights?'

I have put together a map of some potential international flights from regional airports - most are unrealistic, but nevertheless, fun to discuss:

Image

I see the strongest two candidates for international flights as being:

1. Ayers Rock

On AKL - AYQ, I was just discussing this in the New Zealand Aviation Thread - that flight is 2,697 mi, which is comparable to other A320 routes, like PER - SIN (2,421 mi) and CNS - MNL (2,741 mi). Central Australia received 197,000 international visitors in the year to June 2017, representing growth of 4.2%, while in terms of the Northern Territory's international visitor arrivals for the same period, as a whole, an NZ flight could be advertised to the 52,000 visitors from the United States (growth of 10%), the 17,000 visitors from New Zealand (growth of 16%), and the 11,000 visitors from Canada (growth of 28%). On SIN - AYQ, I could see TZ or JQ considering flights too - the Northern Territory had over 40,000 visitors from Asia last year.

See: http://www.tourismnt.com.au/corporate/r ... sitor-data.

2. Hobart

Separately, I wonder if HBA might see SQ or TZ flights from SIN, or even if QR, EK or EY might extend one of their SYD or MEL flights to HBA, to get around any bilateral restrictions. AKL - HBA flights on NZ or JQ are also a possibility. Tasmania is home to some 500,000 people. Further, Tasmania received 253,200 international visitors during the year ending June 2017, up 13% from 224,000 the previous year. A SIN flight could capture visitors from Singapore (12,300), as well as China (24,000), Hong Kong (22,200), Malaysia (6,700) - the fastest growing market, India (4,100) and Indonesia (3,300). Meanwhile, an AKL flight could capture visitors from New Zealand (15,500), as well as the united States (31,100) and Canada (7,800).

See: https://tourismtasmania.com.au/__data/a ... -jun17.pdf.

Cheers,

C.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:14 am

Something I came across in the Hawaiian A338 vs 787 thread

The A330-800 touts a 7,500 nautical mile range, meaning Hawaiian could connect Honolulu to points as far as India, western Australia, London or even Moscow. The airline wants to court leisure travelers from the other side of the world to Hawaii


http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/06/news/co ... index.html

Could we see a flight to PER in the future? I had always thought this would be a nice route to have but something that would never happen. Thoughts?
Forum Moderator
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:41 am

qf789 wrote:
Something I came across in the Hawaiian A338 vs 787 thread

The A330-800 touts a 7,500 nautical mile range, meaning Hawaiian could connect Honolulu to points as far as India, western Australia, London or even Moscow. The airline wants to court leisure travelers from the other side of the world to Hawaii


http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/06/news/co ... index.html

Could we see a flight to PER in the future? I had always thought this would be a nice route to have but something that would never happen. Thoughts?

PER - HNL would offer competitive connections - as examples:

PER - HKG - LAX = 10,993 mi
PER - AKL - LAX = 9,828 mi
PER - SYD - LAX = 9,529 mi
PER - HNL - LAX = 9,323 mi

PER - JNB - JFK = 13,142 mi
PER - DXB - JFK = 12,458 mi
PER - HKG - JFK = 11,805 mi
PER - HNL - JFK = 11,750 mi

While HA do not serve MEL (which is much bigger than PER), MEL already has JQ on MEL - HNL, and UA, VA, AC and QF all offering non-stop flights to North America too.

That being said, this would be a long and thin route, with almost no connections from PER.

Further, once NZ and QF open ORD and NYC, HA will find it harder to compete in PER, given NZ and QF's stronger brand recognition, as well as UA and AA connections.

Perhaps HA should find closer, faster growing markets in Asia, first?

Cheers,

C.
 
waoz1
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:05 pm

qf789 wrote:
Something I came across in the Hawaiian A338 vs 787 thread

The A330-800 touts a 7,500 nautical mile range, meaning Hawaiian could connect Honolulu to points as far as India, western Australia, London or even Moscow. The airline wants to court leisure travelers from the other side of the world to Hawaii


http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/06/news/co ... index.html

Could we see a flight to PER in the future? I had always thought this would be a nice route to have but something that would never happen. Thoughts?



I remember seeing this years ago they were looking at Perth then when quiet
 
bunumuring
Posts: 2179
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:26 pm

Hey planemanofnz,
Hobart had flights for some time to Christchurch. I would guess that a resumption of such flights would be possible on any of the majors. HBA-AKL would also be possible I believe.
Canberra-AKL is often speculated upon. I am frankly quite surprised that it hasn't happened yet, not only for the point-to-point market between the two cities but also for the connections AKL would offer to Air NZ and presumably Virgin Australia Canberra-originating customers for destinations like Fiji and the Americas. I think AKL would offer a viable Alternative connecting airport to SYD - I would certainly prefer AKL to SYD for that.
Canberra-Fiji has been tried by Air Pacific for a 'season' or two, and not repeated. I believe it failed because of a lack of publicity and poor timings of the flights. It would be interesting to see if Fiji AIrways, under arguably more dynamic leadership, could make it work.
Townsville once had international Qantas flights before Cairns took over as gateway to FNQ.
Newcastle could probably sustain more international flights, and possibly some of the QLD sunspots plus Coffs/Ballina could sustain seasonal NZ flights.
Broome? I can see slight demand for Singapore and Bali but little else. Would Alice Springs and / or Adelaide work as originating points for Broome - Bali or Broome - Singapore flights? I guess that the markets for these would be quite small.
Cheers
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Obzerva
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:12 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Does anyone know more about the XCH - CGK and XCH - KUL charter flights?

Do they operate year-round, and are they subsidised by the Australian government?

qf789 wrote:
There is also talk of Silkair starting both BME-SIN and KTA-SIN

That is so interesting - why are these cities subsidising 'scheduled charter flights?'

I have put together a map of some potential international flights from regional airports - most are unrealistic, but nevertheless, fun to discuss:

Image

I see the strongest two candidates for international flights as being:

1. Ayers Rock

On AKL - AYQ, I was just discussing this in the New Zealand Aviation Thread - that flight is 2,697 mi, which is comparable to other A320 routes, like PER - SIN (2,421 mi) and CNS - MNL (2,741 mi). Central Australia received 197,000 international visitors in the year to June 2017, representing growth of 4.2%, while in terms of the Northern Territory's international visitor arrivals for the same period, as a whole, an NZ flight could be advertised to the 52,000 visitors from the United States (growth of 10%), the 17,000 visitors from New Zealand (growth of 16%), and the 11,000 visitors from Canada (growth of 28%). On SIN - AYQ, I could see TZ or JQ considering flights too - the Northern Territory had over 40,000 visitors from Asia last year.

See: http://www.tourismnt.com.au/corporate/r ... sitor-data.

2. Hobart

Separately, I wonder if HBA might see SQ or TZ flights from SIN, or even if QR, EK or EY might extend one of their SYD or MEL flights to HBA, to get around any bilateral restrictions. AKL - HBA flights on NZ or JQ are also a possibility. Tasmania is home to some 500,000 people. Further, Tasmania received 253,200 international visitors during the year ending June 2017, up 13% from 224,000 the previous year. A SIN flight could capture visitors from Singapore (12,300), as well as China (24,000), Hong Kong (22,200), Malaysia (6,700) - the fastest growing market, India (4,100) and Indonesia (3,300). Meanwhile, an AKL flight could capture visitors from New Zealand (15,500), as well as the united States (31,100) and Canada (7,800).

See: https://tourismtasmania.com.au/__data/a ... -jun17.pdf.

Cheers,

C.

Re AKL-HBA
Tasmania may be home to 500,000 people but I’m pretty sure it is the only state in AU where more people live outside the capital than inside it, so the actual catchment is less than half that size for an international flight from Hobart.

I think realistically it’ll be JQ who would be the first mover on this route. If NZ were to do it, it would need to be a late morning departure from HBA to feed the early evening international departure bank from AKL.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:20 pm

ben175 wrote:
What about ADD-PER-MEL same plane service? Could an international airline gain fifth freedom rights domestically?

Next to nil possibility regarding domestic carriage right. I can only imagine a couple countries in South American has granted LAN such rights. And it's not fifth freedom anymore when flying within a country (as an extension from an international flight), it's eighth freedom.

Given PER-MEL's stage length it's also a good money for ET to burn money, should they choose to fly such route.

Cheers
Michael
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:28 pm

planemanofnz wrote:

1. Ayers Rock

On AKL - AYQ, I was just discussing this in the New Zealand Aviation Thread - that flight is 2,697 mi, which is comparable to other A320 routes, like PER - SIN (2,421 mi) and CNS - MNL (2,741 mi). Central Australia received 197,000 international visitors in the year to June 2017, representing growth of 4.2%, while in terms of the Northern Territory's international visitor arrivals for the same period, as a whole, an NZ flight could be advertised to the 52,000 visitors from the United States (growth of 10%), the 17,000 visitors from New Zealand (growth of 16%), and the 11,000 visitors from Canada (growth of 28%). On SIN - AYQ, I could see TZ or JQ considering flights too - the Northern Territory had over 40,000 visitors from Asia last year.

See: http://www.tourismnt.com.au/corporate/r ... sitor-data.

It's possible from operational perspective, but I suppose some other factors would make the flight expensive to operate:
1) AYQ doesn't have customs facility
2) AKL-AYQ would most likely require crew layover, since it would be a 5.5-6h flight. AYQ is known for expensive stays already
3) Taking into account the wind on AKL-AYQ they also have to refuel the aircraft, I don't know if any of the current operators do refuel at AYQ at all?
4) The market is really tiny, I suppose Tasmania makes more sense than AYQ IMHO.
planemanofnz wrote:
Separately, I wonder if HBA might see SQ or TZ flights from SIN, or even if QR, EK or EY might extend one of their SYD or MEL flights to HBA

I don't even think HBA's terminal has the ability to handle widebody (no contact gate, not enough clearance) not to mention customs issue. That would be a lot of work for then. Something from NZ would be a far safer bet.

Although everything I've said can change, but I don't expect any of them (well, expect HBA/LST-AKL) anytime soon.

Cheers
Michael
 
User avatar
V8CHRGD
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:01 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:06 pm

Those are some great pictures thanks for sharing qf789. She is looking good.
 
PA515
Posts: 1124
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:42 pm

Obzerva wrote:
Re AKL-HBA
Tasmania may be home to 500,000 people but I’m pretty sure it is the only state in AU where more people live outside the capital than inside it, so the actual catchment is less than half that size for an international flight from Hobart.

I think realistically it’ll be JQ who would be the first mover on this route. If NZ were to do it, it would need to be a late morning departure from HBA to feed the early evening international departure bank from AKL.


Something like AKL-HBA 0840/1030, HBA-AKL 1130/1650 would fit between VA / TT flights. Presumably VA would do the ground handling, and codeshare.

Previously there's been talk of incentives to get an international airline service to HBA, but nothing specific that I recall. The HBA terminal upgrade is supposed to be finished this month, so the terminal will be free of construction well before any potential Air NZ service.

The A320ceo in the Air NZ regional fleet is being replaced by the A320neo from Jul 2018 and this could influence when an Air NZ HBA service would commence.

PA515
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6971
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:45 pm

Obzerva wrote:
Tasmania may be home to 500,000 people but I’m pretty sure it is the only state in AU where more people live outside the capital than inside it, so the actual catchment is less than half that size for an international flight from Hobart.


Queensland is as well, and af 2h30m drive between Launceston and Hobart there is no reason not to treat the state as one market for a long haul flight.

Any long haul flight into AYQ is a none starter. The Voyages properties have a year-round occupancy rate of near enough 100%. There is no point flying in more guests when the resort cannot accommodate the numbers visiting already.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:27 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
I don't even think HBA's terminal has the ability to handle widebody (no contact gate, not enough clearance) not to mention customs issue. That would be a lot of work for then. Something from NZ would be a far safer bet.

HBA has had wide body service in the past. Back in the 1980s I flew HBA-AKL on QF on a 762, returning a fortnight later AKL-MEL-HBA (also on a 762) after QF canned the nonstop flight. That flight was also canned in pretty short order. And of course NZ operated CHC-HBA for many years with a 737, preceded by a bizarre arrangement where AN and TN each operated fortnightly services on CHC-HBA with a 727-200, but masquerading as a QF flight (QF393 IIRC) because the Federal government insisted that international flights were the sole preserve of Qantas. Customs facilities were available for all these services - can't imagine that wouldn't be available again if required.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 904
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:30 pm

As an addendum re HBA - I was there last in January and found that accommodation costs were astronomical because of a serious capacity shortfall. Tasmania needs to address that issue if it wants to attract international visitors.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
redroo
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:49 pm

qf2220 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
redroo wrote:


Odd design. Another bolt on here. Another bolt on there.

Wouldn't it have been better to just extend (and widen) the terminal round into a horse shoe shape?

Instead we're going to end up with the shed, the old international, the virgin pier bolt on, the new pier bolt on... and probably a few more bolts on to come.


Always been the plan to mirror MEL add-on shed.

Perth airport overall masterplan. 65 gates + 3 runways

Image

EK413


From the map the add on nature is clear. Nt sure why they wouldnt want to at least go for design symmetry. The INTL peir could be more smoothly connected to T3. Though this is only impacting aesthetics of course.



Exactly. Add on. Add on. Add on.

A simple long terminal that wraps around in a horse shoe would be simpler, like ADL. This could be simply extended to the left and right as and when needed.

Instead they've gone for all these complicated bolts on every time instead of simple coherent design strategy.
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:30 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
I don't even think HBA's terminal has the ability to handle widebody (no contact gate, not enough clearance) not to mention customs issue. That would be a lot of work for then. Something from NZ would be a far safer bet.

HBA has had wide body service in the past. Back in the 1980s I flew HBA-AKL on QF on a 762, returning a fortnight later AKL-MEL-HBA (also on a 762) after QF canned the nonstop flight. That flight was also canned in pretty short order. And of course NZ operated CHC-HBA for many years with a 737, preceded by a bizarre arrangement where AN and TN each operated fortnightly services on CHC-HBA with a 727-200, but masquerading as a QF flight (QF393 IIRC) because the Federal government insisted that international flights were the sole preserve of Qantas. Customs facilities were available for all these services - can't imagine that wouldn't be available again if required.

I just had a check on HBA's Apron chart: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip ... 01-140.pdf

The biggest plane the apron seems to be able to receive is B763 at 1A, which is almost extinct from SE Asia/Australia. This also involves blocking both spot 1 and 2.

As such I don't currently believe that they can receive any A330/777/787 service due to fuselage length and wingspan.

Cheers
Michael
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5658
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:55 pm

I'm pretty sure SQ ran some HBT chargers years ago with A343's? And maybe A310's before that, not sure if they have run any since.

NZ to HBT would make sense.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:07 am

eamondzhang wrote:
3) Taking into account the wind on AKL-AYQ they also have to refuel the aircraft, I don't know if any of the current operators do refuel at AYQ at all?


I've seen plenty of A1 tankers parked up (overnight) on the Lasseter Highway (or Coote Rd which is the road down to the airport itself) waiting for the airport to open in the morning - so I'm fairly sure that fuel won't be an issue.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:27 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
Tasmania may be home to 500,000 people but I’m pretty sure it is the only state in AU where more people live outside the capital than inside it, so the actual catchment is less than half that size for an international flight from Hobart.


Queensland is as well, and af 2h30m drive between Launceston and Hobart there is no reason not to treat the state as one market for a long haul flight.

Any long haul flight into AYQ is a none starter. The Voyages properties have a year-round occupancy rate of near enough 100%. There is no point flying in more guests when the resort cannot accommodate the numbers visiting already.


Tasmanians won’t drive over 2 hours to Hobart for an international flight, when they can just connect through MEL out of LST/DPO/BWT.

The north / south divide is pretty infamous in Tas, any flight out of HBA would serving the south of the state only.
I agree with the fact that HBA-AKL would be worth a shot, I’d have a few ideas around this.
3 weekly service to begin with as a trial. At the same time on the other 4 days I’d use the same aircraft for CBR-AKL

A more ballsy move by NZ would be to pick off regional centres along the east coast of Aus, and serve them the same way that KLM does to the UK.
A small sub fleet of leased A319s as a trial could all run AKL to CBR/HBA/NTL/other cherry picked QLD regional centres. Wouldn’t have to be all daily. Add some VA codeshares on them to help get some bums on seats.
 
Qantas16
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:01 am

eamondzhang wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
I don't even think HBA's terminal has the ability to handle widebody (no contact gate, not enough clearance) not to mention customs issue. That would be a lot of work for then. Something from NZ would be a far safer bet.

HBA has had wide body service in the past. Back in the 1980s I flew HBA-AKL on QF on a 762, returning a fortnight later AKL-MEL-HBA (also on a 762) after QF canned the nonstop flight. That flight was also canned in pretty short order. And of course NZ operated CHC-HBA for many years with a 737, preceded by a bizarre arrangement where AN and TN each operated fortnightly services on CHC-HBA with a 727-200, but masquerading as a QF flight (QF393 IIRC) because the Federal government insisted that international flights were the sole preserve of Qantas. Customs facilities were available for all these services - can't imagine that wouldn't be available again if required.

I just had a check on HBA's Apron chart: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip ... 01-140.pdf

The biggest plane the apron seems to be able to receive is B763 at 1A, which is almost extinct from SE Asia/Australia. This also involves blocking both spot 1 and 2.

As such I don't currently believe that they can receive any A330/777/787 service due to fuselage length and wingspan.

Cheers
Michael


I'm 95% sure I've heard stories of QF flying 747's to HBA when they were first introduced on test/training flights. Either way, a 747 will be in HBA ~12months from now on a QF Antarctica flight

http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/Fli ... ember-2018
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:19 am

There is an Icelandair 752 that has just departed AKL heading to Australia. While I'm not 100% sure I believe it is heading to HBA. Flight number is FI1404

https://www.flightradar24.com/ICE1404/f22c019
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:46 am

Short video of VH-ZNA doing a high speed taxi and a RTO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Xqd3fcCaE

Note that the colour in this video isn't the best
Forum Moderator
 
Obzerva
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:33 am

Noticed that MI has picked up it's first 737 MAX, how long until we see them operating in CNS or DRW?

Will they be the first operator in to AU, or has one of the budget carriers in to PER already done this?
 
Qantas16
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:35 am

qf789 wrote:
There is an Icelandair 752 that has just departed AKL heading to Australia. While I'm not 100% sure I believe it is heading to HBA. Flight number is FI1404

https://www.flightradar24.com/ICE1404/f22c019


Flightaware says it is headed to HBA
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:00 am

Obzerva wrote:
Noticed that MI has picked up it's first 737 MAX, how long until we see them operating in CNS or DRW?

Will they be the first operator in to AU, or has one of the budget carriers in to PER already done this?


Silkair is expected to operate the MAX to DRW & CNS in 2018 though no date has been announced yet

As for PER Malindo that took the first delivery of the 737MAX has transferred their deliveries to Lion Air in Indonesia, the 737MAX that they have received are in an all economy configuration. Both Malindo and Batik aircraft that fly to PER are in 2 classes, Batik has also been operating 739's to PER over the past couple of months

I would say MI will be the first to launch MAX service to Australia however I wouldn't rule out Chinese carriers either looking at DRW as CZ, MU and CA all are to take delivery of the MAX in coming months
Forum Moderator
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:02 am

qf789 wrote:
There is an Icelandair 752 that has just departed AKL heading to Australia. While I'm not 100% sure I believe it is heading to HBA. Flight number is FI1404

https://www.flightradar24.com/ICE1404/f22c019

Just landed in HBA as I typed this.

qf789 wrote:
I wouldn't rule out Chinese carriers either looking at DRW as CZ, MU and CA all are to take delivery of the MAX in coming months

A valid point and we can certainly see more routes using MAX. However CZ's first couple MAX is rumoured to be based at URC (replacing the 757s based there). If this happens I wouldn't expect CZ's MAX to show up down here anytime soon.

Cheers
Michael
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1272
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - October 2017

Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:21 am

qf789 wrote:
There is an Icelandair 752 that has just departed AKL heading to Australia. While I'm not 100% sure I believe it is heading to HBA. Flight number is FI1404

https://www.flightradar24.com/ICE1404/f22c019


What is it doing in this part of the world?
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos