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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:52 pm

Balerit wrote:
Image


the flange shown in red on the diagram is the flange that's fractured.

Many of the other diagrams are pointing too far back in the engine.

I think the confusing is coming from the pictures show a design which is different for the GP7200.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:38 pm

lowbank wrote:
I think the confusing is coming from the pictures show a design which is different for the GP7200.

I appreciate any correction.

The source image ( http://www.pw.utc.com/Content/GP7200_En ... y_high.jpg ) is from a PW web site and is labelled as from EA in 2014.

What aspects do you think are different?
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:51 pm

lowbank wrote:
Balerit wrote:
Image


the flange shown in red on the diagram is the flange that's fractured.

Many of the other diagrams are pointing too far back in the engine.

I think the confusing is coming from the pictures show a design which is different for the GP7200.


In this picture the inside diameter of the fan disc appears to slide over the main shaft.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:51 pm

WIederling wrote:
one step further forward afaics? ( ps: probably not )

Well I'm definitely not an engine expert but it doesn't look that way to me, especially when you look at the more side-on photos of the damage. I'm pretty sure that the central shaft has sheared off where I have indicated, and the rest of it appears to have gone pretty much level with that.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:57 pm

speedbored wrote:
WIederling wrote:
one step further forward afaics? ( ps: probably not )

Well I'm definitely not an engine expert but it doesn't look that way to me, especially when you look at the more side-on photos of the damage. I'm pretty sure that the central shaft has sheared off where I have indicated, and the rest of it appears to have gone pretty much level with that.



Whilst I am not going claim to being 100% correct, I have been to the engine build line several times and the fan disk manufacturing facility recently. I suggest your looking to far back into the engine.
As per the AD it's the Fan Disc/hub that's failed and you can see the area it failed in red.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:01 pm

speedbored wrote:
Is this what everyone is looking for:
Image


This Fan disc is bolted to the component behind it, no idea which engine this is, different configuration to what I am used to. I wonder if this photo is confusing people.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:47 pm

lowbank wrote:
Whilst I am not going claim to being 100% correct, I have been to the engine build line several times and the fan disk manufacturing facility recently. I suggest your looking to far back into the engine.
As per the AD it's the Fan Disc/hub that's failed and you can see the area it failed in red.

Well you probably know more than I do - I'm only looking at pictures and it is entirely possible (likely even) that the schematic is not 100% accurate. It's also not easy to tell in the schematic (due to the offset angle) exactly how things line up.

Until we get more official information, I suspect that we are all mostly guessing.

lowbank wrote:
I wonder if this photo is confusing people.

Possibly. I was informed that this is a picture of a GP7200 but I have no way of verifying whether it genuinely is or not. I don't see anything that disagrees with the other images though.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:35 pm

I agree schematics are not accurate.
Having not seen a GP7200 being built I cannot agree or disagree with you

There is a bolt at the back of each position where the Annulus filler go, that would be a static structure on engines I know, they could just be slave bolts put in whilst the engine is being built, but that's just a guess.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Having looked at the failed engine again, you can see the bolt holes, but it is a static structure so I am going for slave bolts and the engine does look like a GP 7200.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:45 am

speedbored wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Would be interesting to see where that is in the cut-away drawing I posted above


I think it is probably roughly like this:
Image


Sorry, but I disagree. Please see attached re-mark of your photo. What you are identifying as bolt holes show no damage or eccentricity. The way I see it is those holes are normally covered by the flange that extends from the missing hub. See where I have extended your lower arrow.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:25 am

Some good closeups of GP7200s here

https://www.aeroreport.de/en/articles/r ... pruefstand
Image
https://www.aeroreport.de/en/articles/g ... ser-werden
Image

And the fan separated from the rest of the engine

Image
Image
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:49 am

zeke wrote:
Some good closeups of GP7200s here

Thanks for those - excellent images. And it confirms that the fan hub image I posted on the previous page is from a GP7200.

|'ve also found a better side-on schematic (from the manufacturer's site):
Image

Seems to me that the ring with holes in that we see in the picture of the damage is the front of the LPC:
Image

i.e it is the ring that the blue-coloured fan hub is bolted on to. If you zoom in on the high resolution version of the front-on view of the damaged engine, you can clearly see that every 4th hole on that ring is slightly larger than the other holes, which would tally with the bolts on the fan hub close-up images.

Seems to me that the fan hub mounting bolts have all sheared off (possibly by design to protect the remaining structure) due to excessive forces from the fan.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:28 am

speedbored wrote:
Seems to me that the fan hub mounting bolts have all sheared off (possibly by design to protect the remaining structure) due to excessive forces from the fan.


structural cone with the flange visible and just outside the aerodynamic shroud (a bit deformed )
that guides airflow coming past the aerodynamic hub cover of the fan into the LP compressor.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:50 am

zeke wrote:


Yes, comparing this one to the earlier frontal shot makes it very clear as to what departed and what stayed.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:04 pm

Gee, those fan blades are massive.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:37 pm

speedbored wrote:
zeke wrote:
Some good closeups of GP7200s here

Thanks for those - excellent images. And it confirms that the fan hub image I posted on the previous page is from a GP7200.

|'ve also found a better side-on schematic (from the manufacturer's site):
Image

Seems to me that the ring with holes in that we see in the picture of the damage is the front of the LPC:
Image

i.e it is the ring that the blue-coloured fan hub is bolted on to. If you zoom in on the high resolution version of the front-on view of the damaged engine, you can clearly see that every 4th hole on that ring is slightly larger than the other holes, which would tally with the bolts on the fan hub close-up images.

Seems to me that the fan hub mounting bolts have all sheared off (possibly by design to protect the remaining structure) due to excessive forces from the fan.



Now we have a better schematic I agree the bolts are not slave build bolts but assembly bolts. I am no stress engineer but those bolts would sustain the loads once the fan hub/disc had fractured.

It appears that the LP fan is bolted to First LP compressor which must obviously rotate together. Driven by the LP turbine.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Balerit wrote:
Gee, those fan blades are massive.


You want to see the XWB 97k ones, they are huge.
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WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:35 pm

Then the team will mount a spare engine in its place on the right wing. Here's the weird thing, though: The airline probably won't use it to power the plane back to France. The stand-in is there for weight balance, and won’t actually work, according to Reuters. BEA says the exact plan is still being studied.


https://www.wired.com/story/how-air-fra ... red-engine
 
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:21 pm

A good effort on behalf of the ante guys to get photo and schematics of the GP7200.

We should all now understand the area of failure and what's left.

We know it's cyclic fatigue from the AD .

What we don't know is:-
Is it a manufacturing fault.
Is it a maintenance fault.
Is it a material fault.
Worst off all is it a design fault.

I suggest it's 1 or 3.
Reason is the engine has been operating for some time and there will be engines with higher cycles out there.

First report will make interesting reading
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:21 pm

It used to be 4 engine aircraft were capable of 3 engine ferry flights. I presume the same still applies. W&B, engine location on the wing, aerodynamics, length of flight and WX all have to be factored on a ferry flight let alone a 3 engine ferry flight. Some airlines even have special qualified crews for out of the ordinary ferry flights.
 
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:09 pm

ikramerica wrote:
Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.


That is what AF is doing and this weighted slug has the correct aerodynamics built into it.
 
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:18 am

itchief wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.


That is what AF is doing and this weighted slug has the correct aerodynamics built into it.


What will they use as a "weighted slug"? Another "real" engine?
( Building a bespoke concrete engine probably would be time and paper consuming to no end?)
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:46 am

I dont know if someone already did it but I really wanted to pay tribute to the whole crew, both Technical and commercial.

There were some scary minutes after the "bang", with, of course, no immeditae statement from the captain and cabin crew going quickly to their positions. Then, captain said situation was under control and all passengers remained remarkably quiet on our way to Goose Bay. And after, it was the same despite a long wait (I think 15 hours) before we could take another aircraft.
 
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:45 am

ikramerica wrote:
Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.

The flight software already needs to deal with a windmilling engine, so they chose to require it for this scenario too.

rouelan wrote:
I dont know if someone already did it but I really wanted to pay tribute to the whole crew, both Technical and commercial.

There were some scary minutes after the "bang", with, of course, no immeditae statement from the captain and cabin crew going quickly to their positions. Then, captain said situation was under control and all passengers remained remarkably quiet on our way to Goose Bay. And after, it was the same despite a long wait (I think 15 hours) before we could take another aircraft.

Good point. Congrats to the crew for handling this situation with a high level of professionalism.
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 am

ikramerica wrote:
Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.


The aircraft is not certified to fly with that attached. The slug itself is not certified to get in the air either.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:19 am

Just a few observations from what had already been posted before:

One of the posted inflight videos shows a good part of the upper outboard fan shroud still attached before the airstream apparently ripped it off before landing. So it stands to reason that at least the main part of the fan did at least not depart in that direction but more down and inward. Very fortunate that it mostly spared the wing and the cabin.

Passengers reported that for a time there were substantial vibrations. I'm not discounting the possibility that the core or the turbines might have sustained enough damage to cause this, but wouldn't that be consistent primarily with first one and then a few fan blades separating and the vibrations resulting from the imbalance then weakening and ultimately breaking the fan disk flange? (Which would still be a much worse outcome than the kind of contained blade-off scenario the engines are tested and certified for, raising its own questions.)

Given the spectacular high-energy takeoffs they've demonstrated at air shows it seems very plausible that with the proper precautions under controlled conditions a 3-engine takeoff and ferry flight should be feasible, just compensating the imbalance by not carrying any passengers or freight and only a reduced fuel load. Since the pylons are designed with frangible engine mounts the airframe will also be designed to survive and remain controllable with only three engines attached at all, even if takeoff may be more restricted and if they'll actually choose to keep the damaged rest of the engine attached after some cleanup.

I'd guess they'll perform DNA tests on the remains of the engine (both the attached and the separated ones) to check for a possible bird strike at takoff or during climb which might have triggered the event.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:50 am

Surely a take-off at empty weight on three engines, with enough fuel to get to Iceland, then Prestwick, and then on to Toulouse is possible? It would just need reduced thrust on engine number 2, to compensate for having no engine number 4. It could probably even take off as a twin at a push at these low weights, though I understand losing another engine on take-off would cause a problem.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:19 am

uta999 wrote:
Surely a take-off at empty weight on three engines, with enough fuel to get to Iceland, then Prestwick, and then on to Toulouse is possible? It would just need reduced thrust on engine number 2, to compensate for having no engine number 4. It could probably even take off as a twin at a push at these low weights, though I understand losing another engine on take-off would cause a problem.


Don't you mean reduced thrust on engine No 1? 747's back in the day did 3 engine JFK to LHR so the 380 should be able to get all the way without stopping I would think.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:25 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
Don't you mean reduced thrust on engine No 1? 747's back in the day did 3 engine JFK to LHR so the 380 should be able to get all the way without stopping I would think.


I'd think it makes a difference when the engine quits. Taking off with a full fuel load and then losing one is one thing, but trying to get takeoff clearance with just three of four engines operational to begin with would be very different.
 
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Re: WIRED: How Air France will rescue its A380 with a shattered engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:43 pm

WIederling wrote:
itchief wrote:
ikramerica wrote:
Why ship an engine there? Ship a weighted slug to mount instead.


That is what AF is doing and this weighted slug has the correct aerodynamics built into it.


What will they use as a "weighted slug"? Another "real" engine?
( Building a bespoke concrete engine probably would be time and paper consuming to no end?)


I hope you understand I am referring to a spare engine as the weighted slug. A spare engine is the proper weight and has the proper mounting points already built into it along with the correct aerodynamics.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:42 pm

Is the aircraft still on the ground at Goose Bay?
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:22 pm

Klaus wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Don't you mean reduced thrust on engine No 1? 747's back in the day did 3 engine JFK to LHR so the 380 should be able to get all the way without stopping I would think.


I'd think it makes a difference when the engine quits. Taking off with a full fuel load and then losing one is one thing, but trying to get takeoff clearance with just three of four engines operational to begin with would be very different.


I wasn't talking about passenger flights, but 3 engine ferry flights which Boeing was under contract to do for BA and several other airlines -- 2 engine ferry flights for 727's also.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:30 pm

boeing767300 wrote:
Is the aircraft still on the ground at Goose Bay?

Indeed it is
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:41 am

Is AF any nearer getting this bird back to France for repair, or will some of the repair be carried out at Goose Bay? What is the latest plan, and has any work been done yet to remove the engine?

It must be costing AF quite a bit just sitting there getting cold.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:22 pm

Somehow related, famous Spantax once tried to Ferry a CV990 from STO to ZRH with only 3 engines. Unfortunately that flight crashed on take off.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:56 pm

PanHAM wrote:
Somehow related, famous Spantax once tried to Ferry a CV990 from STO to ZRH with only 3 engines. Unfortunately that flight crashed on take off.

That's just teasing everybody.
On the basis that hardly anyone here can even remember Spantax, how about some bullet-points to help us out?

1) It took off with three crew, plus seven passengers (!)
2) The crash was NOT attributed directly to the missing engine.
3) The remaining three engines did not fail, although one was throttled back slightly to reduce yawing on take-off.
4) Atmospheric conditions were far from ideal. Strong winds, wind shear, extreme temperature inversion ( -27 °C )
PROBABLE CAUSE:
5a) Unexpected early loss of external visual reference after take-off and loss of directional control during transition from visual to instrument flying.
5b) Windshear.

Then there is the aftermath of the crash.
Although the crash site was only 1800 metres from the runway, Swedish emergency services took four hours to reach the plane.
The statistics state that 5 died/ 5 survived. Reading between the lines, some of those that died could have lost their lives due to frostbite!
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:51 pm

7BOEING7 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Don't you mean reduced thrust on engine No 1? 747's back in the day did 3 engine JFK to LHR so the 380 should be able to get all the way without stopping I would think.


I'd think it makes a difference when the engine quits. Taking off with a full fuel load and then losing one is one thing, but trying to get takeoff clearance with just three of four engines operational to begin with would be very different.


I wasn't talking about passenger flights, but 3 engine ferry flights which Boeing was under contract to do for BA and several other airlines -- 2 engine ferry flights for 727's also.

AF would need one off insurance for such a ferry flight, and approval to overfly various countries airspace, which would be prohibitively expensive. Even if obtained, inspections would need to be done. And no way would the remains of the engine be permitted to stay on the wing.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:29 pm

Planesmart wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:
Klaus wrote:

I'd think it makes a difference when the engine quits. Taking off with a full fuel load and then losing one is one thing, but trying to get takeoff clearance with just three of four engines operational to begin with would be very different.


I wasn't talking about passenger flights, but 3 engine ferry flights which Boeing was under contract to do for BA and several other airlines -- 2 engine ferry flights for 727's also.

AF would need one off insurance for such a ferry flight, and approval to overfly various countries airspace, which would be prohibitively expensive. Even if obtained, inspections would need to be done. And no way would the remains of the engine be permitted to stay on the wing.

I believe it is already the plan to attach a new engine, but fly with it non-functioning. Essentially, it's there just for weight, balance, and aerodynamics. Not sure what the progress is on this, though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKBN1CF2RA
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:09 pm

aerolimani wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
7BOEING7 wrote:

I wasn't talking about passenger flights, but 3 engine ferry flights which Boeing was under contract to do for BA and several other airlines -- 2 engine ferry flights for 727's also.

AF would need one off insurance for such a ferry flight, and approval to overfly various countries airspace, which would be prohibitively expensive. Even if obtained, inspections would need to be done. And no way would the remains of the engine be permitted to stay on the wing.

I believe it is already the plan to attach a new engine, but fly with it non-functioning. Essentially, it's there just for weight, balance, and aerodynamics. Not sure what the progress is on this, though.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-air- ... SKBN1CF2RA



This is indeed the plan to ferry back F-HPJE to CDG.
According to the « Air & Cosmos » magazine (usually well informed), the « fake » engine that will be used for the flight back of F-HPJE will be taken on the A380 MSN4 F-WWDD that was flown recently to Le Bourget Air and Space Museum to be displayed.

<https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/comment-l-airbus-a380-d-air-france-au-moteur-endommage-va-rentrer-en-france.N601213>
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:15 pm

Update:

The engine for the return ferry will be carried to Goose Bay on an An-124 on 24 Nov. The damaged engine will be transported to Cardiff on 25 Nov.

Schedule details and updates at https://blog.flightradar24.com/blog/air ... greenland/


https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 4523356165
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:15 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:34 pm

And the pylon too plus some fairings and slats. It's turning out to be a fairly big job just for the ferry flight home
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:27 pm

Klaus wrote:
Taking off with a full fuel load and then losing one is one thing, but trying to get takeoff clearance with just three of four engines operational to begin with would be very different.

Planesmart wrote:
AF would need one off insurance for such a ferry flight, and approval to overfly various countries airspace, which would be prohibitively expensive. Even if obtained, inspections would need to be done. And no way would the remains of the engine be permitted to stay on the wing.

You are most probably correct, but it worries me that 50 days have elapsed and painfully slow progress is only being made at enormous cost & inconvenience. This is a FOUR engine a/c with a massive surplus of power when flying empty, that has already proved itself capable of flying on three engines whilst heavily loaded with pax.. What kind of sorry world have we arrived at where this ferry flight is such a problem?

ps on this occasion, the only two countries that absolutely need to agree this overflight are Canada (departure from Goose Bay over very sparsely populated land), and France.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:36 pm

Rather surprised there is a hanger large enough for a 380 at YYR.. unless it’s just the wing inside.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:40 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
You are most probably correct, but it worries me that 50 days have elapsed and painfully slow progress is only being made at enormous cost & inconvenience. This is a FOUR engine a/c with a massive surplus of power when flying empty, that has already proved itself capable of flying on three engines whilst heavily loaded with pax.. What kind of sorry world have we arrived at where this ferry flight is such a problem?


Apparently several repairs to the wing have been performed.
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:43 pm

iahcsr wrote:
Rather surprised there is a hanger large enough for a 380 at YYR.. unless it’s just the wing inside.


Image
https://twitter.com/gilleslaurent81/sta ... 6869987330
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:55 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
This is a FOUR engine a/c with a massive surplus of power when flying empty, that has already proved itself capable of flying on three engines whilst heavily loaded with pax.. What kind of sorry world have we arrived at where this ferry flight is such a problem?

ps on this occasion, the only two countries that absolutely need to agree this overflight are Canada (departure from Goose Bay over very sparsely populated land), and France.


Three engine takeoffs are tricky and dangerous. Assymmetrical thrust meets speeds too slow to correct with rudder. It's a different animal than landing a bird with three engines. Indeed, the amazing amount of thrust is part of the problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/18/us/at ... -to-3.html

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... R9506.aspx
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:48 pm

D L X wrote:
Three engine takeoffs are tricky and dangerous. Assymmetrical thrust meets speeds too slow to correct with rudder. It's a different animal than landing a bird with three engines. Indeed, the amazing amount of thrust is part of the problem.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/18/us/at ... -to-3.html

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... R9506.aspx

Yes indeed, and likewise the Spantax CV990 mentioned earlier in the thread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Span ... vair_crash
Of course these are the two that made the headlines, not the thousands of similar events that passed without any problem.

In post #536 Revelation quoted CaptainDave detailing specific training and procedures to be used by this A380 ferry crew. I'm not certain how to provide a link back to that, but I'm sure it would be right up your street. Post #536

And God Bless you for mentioning the key issue of "asymmetric thrust"; you are only the third person to directly mention it, or eighth if you count indirect quotes by others.
Now if only I could remember who it was first mentioned it way back 1½months ago at the outset of this thread......
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itisi
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Re: AF66 CDG-LAX (A388-F-HPJE) diverts to Goose Bay (YYR) with an uncontained engine failure to #4 engine

Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:10 am

Ask CI about three engine ferry flights.... 742F, Manila.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)

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