lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

The New PanAM

Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:49 pm

Can I have some details about the new PanAM? What aircraft and routes do they operate? How large is the airline? And what is it's status? What is the significance of the great name in this airline?
 
UK_Dispatcher
Posts: 2254
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:44 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Sat Feb 23, 2002 8:27 pm

www.iflypanam.com
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:41 pm

Thanks. The address is http://www.flypanam.com/.
How many planes does PA have? Are they the original PA aircraft?
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Sat Feb 23, 2002 9:43 pm

Do a search. There was a ton of info given within the last coupla' weeks about Pan Am, and nothing new since them from what I know.
 
PacificFlyer
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 11:30 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:34 am

Currently Pan Am operates 7 727-200s, which I think more will me delivered each month. They recently purchased 24 727-200s from United Airlines, along with two simulators. The recently delivered aircrafts will be used "out side the United States." The Pan Am Clipper Connection operates; I don't know how many, Jetstream J31s. Yes, like Lowfareair said, you should do a search, there are great deal about it! Also the site www.flypanam.com should already have some answers to you about the goal and the name.
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:36 am

Pan Am currently operates 7 Boeing 727-200, some of which did indeed belong to the original company. Their wholly-owned regional affilliate, Boston-Maine Airways, aka Clipper Connection owns 10 J31, only a few of which fly scheduled services at this time. The remainder of the Jetstream fleet will be deployed over time. Planned routes include the Canadian Maritimes and some cities in Florida, Naples and the Keys amongst others.
By midsummer th mainline plans to have 22 727s in service. What routes they will expand to is anybody's guess at tis time, but MIA-SJU and SFB-FPO are most likely two of them. Hope this helps.
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:41 am

The SFB-MIA-SJU route was scheduled to begin a couple of months ago but I guess after 9-11 they have pushed the startup date , or maybe even cancelled their plans to start the route.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 2:13 am

Is this 707 actually parked beneath the roof?

http://www.panamhistory.com/panam1.htm

(sorry was unable to print just the picture)

Does anybody here remember this terminal in JFK? Is it still there?
 
DC10Tony
Posts: 991
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 9:51 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 2:19 am

I work at SFB, but not for Pan Am.

From what I've seen on the ramp, Pan Am is a pretty good airline. The inside of the planes are neat, clean and smell pretty good. They give you a good amount of food for the flight and their 727-200s have winglets.

Their ground crew always seems to be getting the planes out on time and their mechanics are good also.

I think the reason why this Pan Am is so successful is because they're using the real Pan Am's name.

But all-in-all, they're pretty good.
 
panamair
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: The New PanAM

Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:38 pm

By all accounts, their inflight service is great - friendly and efficient flight attendants, fresh-cut flowers in the lavs, 36-37in seat pitch, etc. Their key problem is the mechanical delays with their small fleet of 727-200s (some delays have ranged up to 12 hours while waiting for parts, etc.) I belive that one of the reasons for the purchase from UAL of the 24 72s is to address this problem and have enough spares around.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Mon Feb 25, 2002 1:07 am

Flowers in the lavs and 36-37 inches seat pitch? Is that in all classes? This means that the planes don't carry more than 130 or so pax.
 
PacificFlyer
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 11:30 am

RE: The New PanAM

Mon Feb 25, 2002 1:30 am

"Pan Am is determined to bring comfort, convenience and civility to passengers. Pan Am’s fleet of Boeing 727’s have been reconfigured from 173 to 149 seats, allowing passengers more legroom and comfort. Warm scented towels are distributed prior to the in-flight service, which is carried-out via trays, eliminating carts that may block the aisles." This info from the site explains it all for you LmmL 14/32

 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: The New PanAM

Mon Feb 25, 2002 5:34 am

I had a friend who flew them recently from Sanford to BWI.

There was no food on the flight. They got a cookie for the 2 hour flight.

There are no carryon bags allowed.

The plane was 4 hours late. When he asked the gate agent when the plane could be expected, they didn't know where the plane was or when it would arrive.

Flowers in the lav? They might have done that at some point.

149 seats? DL operates their 727's with 148 seats. There is only 1 class of service on PA. There is only a nominal amount of extra room between rows of seats.
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:10 am

>>There was no food on the flight. They got a cookie for the 2 hour flight.<<

That's a lot better than the peanuts they give ya on DL

>>There are no carryon bags allowed.<<

That has sped up the boarding and debaording time considerably, plus people getting pulled for random searches don't have to have their bags checked.

>>The plane was 4 hours late. When he asked the gate agent when the plane could be expected, they didn't know where the plane was or when it would arrive.<<

The gate agent probably didn't know either b/c it was an agent for another airline Pan Am contracted out, or he was new, as Pan Am just came into BWI.

>>Flowers in the lav? They might have done that at some point.<<

Did your friend say that there weren't any or that he didn't go to the bathroom?

>>149 seats? DL operates their 727's with 148 seats. There is only 1 class of service on PA. There is only a nominal amount of extra room between rows of seats.<<

There are several parts to this:

You are forgetting that the first class seats have less seats per row(4) than coach(6). That eliminates one of the three first class rows(3 rows of 4 on DL are 2 rows of 6 on Pan Am.), and gives about 38" to add extra legroom. With the extra 7" from the other rows(make pitch down to 31" instead of 38"), there is 52".

Then add the space for the galley/lavatory that won't be between the classes on Pan Am(Shown on the DL 72S seat map) and that will be at least 36", so we are up to 88".

I also don't think that the F closet/whatever that is on the right side of row 1 and 2 is there, that's an extra F row, so another 38", and we are up to 126". Now divide that by 25 rows in the Clipper jet, and you have your extra five inches.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:51 am

...the in-flight service, which is carried-out via trays, eliminating carts that may block the aisles....

This is a quote from PanAm's web site. I am surprised that there are still airlines with such a mentality. personally I do not think that hand service is more personalised and frees the aisles. There are more FA's literally running around the cabin with armfuls of trays (perhaps 5 or more at a time). Such a service is hurried and dangerous and there is certainly nothing more personalised than trolley service which makes in flight service quicker and smoother.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:25 am

I am surprised that there are still airlines with such a mentality.

Ever hear of Southwest? This is how they do it... MUCH nicer if you ask me...
 
PacificFlyer
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 11:30 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:06 pm

As hectic as you may think, once when I flew with this Pan Am, there were none of that. Everything was ever so smooth and so personal. it almost feel like the flight attendent brought the tray out just for you and your travelling mates. As soon as the plane took off, the flight attendent came around the cabin with a small note pad and a pen, come to ask you specifically what you would like to drink. Then in a moment they brought it out to you on a tray.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24725
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:19 pm

Just wanted to say jetBlue is also food cart-free. They take drink orders and serve passengers with trays and snacks are served from a basket the FA carriers around, and from my experience, it is easier, faster, and more convienent. Plus, the FA's are not in a rush pouring drinks and blocking the asiles. A great idea.
a.
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:45 pm

An earlier poster asked if the Pan Am 707 was parked beneath the roof. It was. The terminal was before jetways so planes pulled up close to the terminal and under that canopy so pax could be protected from rain and snow. It was a smart idea for the time.

That terminal (Pan Am WorldPort) is still at JFK and has been renamed Terminal 3 it and a newer built addition behind it and Terminal 2 comprise the DL operations at Kennedy. There were plans a year ago to tear down Terminal 3, but they seem to be going nowhere in the current state of the industry.

It is not landmarked but there has been some efforts to do so.

TNNH
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:34 pm

Whats up with the no carry on bags pollicy? Are you allowed to bring a laptop computer? Do they not have x-ray machines at their airports?
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:42 pm

I have some friends who flew Pan Am and they said that the only carry on permitted is a woman's hand bag but men aren't permitted carry on . I think that's a big disadvantaged I would never check in my laptop and there are just somethings you need to carry on .
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
milemaster
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:58 pm

It's pretty self explanatory what they intend to do with these new 722's. If you look at their bizarre route structure, every city they fly to pretty much goes on to San Juan.

Latin America fondly remembers Pan Am.

It's going to be interesting to watch what path they follow.
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:02 pm

Going back to the cart-free service: How many FA's on each PanAm flight? Someone said snacks are served during the flight. Now there is a difference between serving a full hot meal on a tray and simply going round with snacks.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:27 pm

I did a trip report on them in december (a Sanford-Gary flight) Indeed the no carry on luggage policy is annoying. You are allowed to hold a book, walkman or magazine in your hand but not too nice if you take a long flight, and without IFE or meals. But they have special crates for the stuff which you'd like as carry on, which they handle with care and bring in the cabin, so a laptap must be safe in it.
and indeed, I rather had a meal and a cart than the cookie without.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:32 pm

MEA-707 do you remember how many fa's were on the flight? Can you give me a link to your trip report please?
 
panamair
Posts: 3775
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:43 pm

The following is taken directly from their website at http://www.flypanam.com regarding carryons. Looks like they may have changed their minds regarding laptops since they say laptops "may be acceptable to carry on board":

Carry-On
The Pan Am policy for carry-on items was drastically changed due to the events of September 11, 2001. Pan Am’s initial effort to restrict carry on was to allow passengers shortened screening lines at security checkpoints. Thank you for your understanding and compliance with this requirement.

The following items may be acceptable to carry on board but this is not guaranteed and is at the discretion of Pan Am employees at the terminal, gate, and in the aircraft.

• Canes, Crutches
• Medical Supplies, (diabetic, asthmatic, etc.)
• Magazines, Books
• Diaper Bags
• Wallet
• Small purses (no larger than 25 linear inches)
• Laptop Computers
• Small Breifcases

 
lmml 14/32
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2001 2:27 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:57 pm

All that sounds very normal. The regulation size for hand luggage is 45 inches Length + breadth + Width. The discretion bit is dodgy. Perhaps that might mean that exceptions are made if the flight is not full.
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:17 pm

>>Someone said snacks are served during the flight. Now there is a difference between serving a full hot meal on a tray and simply going round with snacks.<<

Like I said before, the cookie served is better than the Pretzels on DLX!
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:39 pm

Hi LMML.
There were 3 F/A's on my flight. The 149 seat number isn't coincidental; now they can stay within the 1 attendant-for-every-50 pax rule. We had a very light load of 22 passengers btw.
A link to my old archived report is http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/15312/ . The Pan Am flight is discussed further in the thread.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:42 pm

The 149 is there in case a flight attendant is sick/no-show/whatever. Then they can leave with only 3 and have no delay.
 
ont 737
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2001 10:19 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:00 am

With their carry on bag policy you could fit everything (small briefcase, small purse etc.) under the seat in front of you. If this is the case, I guess there is no need for the overhead storage bins. I bet it would take alot of weight off the plane if they took them out. That would create an interesting feel to the cabin...
 
Guest

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:43 am

That has sped up the boarding and debaording time considerably, plus people getting pulled for random searches don't have to have their bags checked.


If this Pan Am really plans on being an industry player, than the no carry-on policy will be abandoned. Every other airline seems to have adjusted with ease to newly imposed carry-on procedures. Why Pan Am can't is anybody's guess.

Concerns for pax safety, while well intentioned, will mean little when Guilford Transportation Industries can't stem the tide of red ink of empty seats.
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 9:52 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:07 pm

Today's issue of the 'portsmouth Herald has a piece on Pan Am' impending expansion of service. It indirectly confirms our assumption that the new markets will be in the Caribbean and South America:


Passangers flying Pan Am soon will have more planes to ferry them between destinations.
Staff photo by Deb Cram

Pan Am acquiring 727s from United

By Christine Gillette, cgillette@seacoastonline.com

PORTSMOUTH — Pan American Airways is buying 24 full-size passenger aircraft from United Airlines.

United Services, the airline's support business, will deliver a Boeing 727-200 each week for the next six months, according to a United official, making it one of the largest sales the company has made to another airline.

"Over the past five years, we have sold 43 DC-10-10 aircraft to FedEx Corp.," Martin Lawrence, manager of aircraft sales for UAL Corp., United's parent company, was quoted as saying by Reuters. "But with the sale to Pan Am, we will deliver an aircraft a week for the next six months."

A Pan Am official said Monday the new aircraft will begin arriving at its Pease International Tradeport maintenance facility on Thursday. Once there, some aspects of what is known as "bridging the equipment" — translating information from the previous owner's maintenance program into Pan Am's maintenance system — will take place, said Dan Fortnam, Pan Am's head of marketing.

"That's a time-consuming process," he said.

Fortnam wasn't sure how many jobs the new aircraft might translate into either at Pan Am's maintenance operation at Pease or in the airline's flight-related operations. The airline currently employs about 600 people, the majority of whom are based at the tradeport, where Pan Am operates its maintenance division, corporate headquarters and fixed-base operator business, Pan Am Services.

"Certainly, it's going to mean growth for us. Where and when that growth takes place, we're kind of keeping that close to the (vest) at the moment," Fortnam said.

"We have not said a whole lot about this because it doesn't make business sense to tell our competition exactly what, where and when," he said. "It would give them an advantage."

In addition to the aircraft, Pan Am will buy three 727 training simulators and a cockpit-procedures trainer from United.

Neither side would release how much Pan Am is paying for the aircraft and other equipment.

Fortnam did confirm the aircraft will be used for passenger service but would not say whether it would be for charters or scheduled flights.

"I think the concentration is going to be where Pan Am, the name, has the most impact, in the Caribbean, Latin America, Central and South America," he said.

It appears unlikely all 24 aircraft will ultimately be based at Pease.

"They'll be based in many places," Fortnam said.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/2_26biz3.htm
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24725
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:37 pm

And where will this Latin American expansion take place? MIA or FLL I would hope.
a.
 
a/c dxer
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:52 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:45 pm

Sanford, florida they are already based out of there.
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:13 pm

I had heard something about them wanting to start a sort of caribbean hub in some Dominican airport and I would also guess they will operate Latin America flights out of SFB. But they did have plans on starting a SFB-MIA-SJU flight so they might also set up ops at MIA.
cHEPOS
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24725
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:15 pm

Where would they fly from Sanford? The demand is hardly there. Sanford currently has twice-weekly Aeropostal service to Caracas. MIA/FLL-CCS offer much more potential and yields.
a.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:19 pm

I'll be keeping my eyes open at PSM for these birds.. There aren't too many places that they can hide them at the airport.
 
chepos
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:23 pm

They might have the flights originate in SFB and stop at this misterious new Latin America hub and from there they will serve these new Latin cities . SJU would be a good choice as they already serve San Juan but I haven't heard anything about them wanting to set up a hub there. I have heard about Punta Cana or some other Dominican Republic city that they seem interested in. They do make some weird decisions so nothing from them would really surprise me.
Chepos
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
thomacf
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:11 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:28 pm

Does Sanford have a large enough terminal space and enough gates to handle a hub operation?
 
a/c dxer
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:52 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:44 pm

SFB is there major hub from what I understand. Could be wrong. But one thing about sfb it is easy to get in and out of.
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:06 pm

wonder if they will expand eastward? hope they do, so some of us can see them in colorado. they had one of their 727's in cos about a year ago. should have seen the old timers for ual (25yrs +) jaws at their knee's. then a full day of memories. good luck pam am.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3672
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:38 pm

Sanford is a pretty big airport. When I took my Pan Am flight to Gary, it was deserted, but I'm sure it can handle at least 10 jets in the same time.
The problem with Sanford is it's hard to reach, there is no good public transport and I guess a taxi from Orlando will be $70. I almost missed my flight (I don't have a car). Pan Am might initiate airport shuttles to Orlando center, the amusement parks, and maybe other cities, or feed Sanford with their J-31s (from FLL, Tampa, St Petersburg etc.).
Maybe South Florida is a better market, with a huge latino population. My friends there complain R/T flights to the Caribbean, central and south America (Colombia, Peru etc.) are mostly in the $400-800 region. I guess Pan Am can still make a profit filling the planes for half these prices and have American Airlines to make a run for their money.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
a/c dxer
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 10:52 pm

RE: The New PanAM

Wed Feb 27, 2002 7:21 pm

You are correct sfb can handle that amount of airplane you should see it on saturdays when they are real busy
they do an excellent job of getting those airplanes out.
 
milemaster
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: The New PanAM

Thu Feb 28, 2002 5:22 am

I'm interested to see what will happen over the next 6 months.
 
inverted
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Thu Feb 28, 2002 11:34 am

Well, I can confirm the first delivery of a United 727 to Pan Am. The aircraft is already in the hangar undergoing heavy maintenance as we speak.

It also appears that on the Boston-Maine side of things, there will be a start up of J31 service in florida around April or May of this year.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: The New PanAM

Thu Feb 28, 2002 2:48 pm

Inverted, when did it come into PSM??

I looked for it at noon, and was listening to Tower, but I heard nothing at all!
 
AgnusBymaster
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2001 8:11 am

RE: The New PanAM

Thu Feb 28, 2002 4:55 pm

This carry-on policy is pretty stupid if you ask me. I really can't imagine what they gain through this policy. While boarding times may be faster, the amount of checked luggage will be greater, and so the slow and laborious process of loading/unloading checked luggage will take even longer. And, it's not like there isn't room on their planes to stow luggage, especially with fewer seats onboard.
 
inverted
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 11:40 am

RE: The New PanAM

Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:43 pm

It came in last Thursday, and I was just there today when the SECOND UAL 727 was delivered at approximately 11:30am. They hadn't pulled it (2nd one) into the hangar yet as of 6:00pm.
 
Theiler
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 8:39 am

RE: The New PanAM

Fri Mar 01, 2002 1:59 pm

OK, thanks. I slipped over there just past 11:30.. Typical that I missed it!

I think that I saw it sitting just east of the PA ramp.

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