PortugalAviator
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Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:18 pm

With big news coming up next, TAP is obtaining the first batch of A330neo in the 3rd quarter of 2017 & larger A320neo in 2018-2019. Whilst they are completing the whole fleet renewal in the next decade TAP has an eye on launching undisclosed or unknown Asian routes at an unknown date but I believe the A340's may be flying throughout 2020's so there is definitely a possible need for a suitable replacement. The farest route by TAP is Rio De Janeiro but still flying now. We still have A340's in good terms of technological conditions as we should have acquired a few 777X or 787 in this decade & reducing the A330neo order. I am going to await furthur news on this topic hope this still pushes TAP good profit & sustainability.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:21 am

So basically, there's no news here.
You've started a thread titled "TAP eyes replacement."
And then you've backed it up with your own speculation on what they might do in several years?

Anyway, it's an interesting topic.
I'd love to see TAP with some 787's, but I don't think it would make a lot of sense for them.
More 330neo's would probably suit them nicely. It's a very capable airplane. I don't think it would do LIS-AKL nonstop, for example, but I kind of doubt that they're especially interested in that particular route, anyhow.
 
Cunard
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:39 am

It's already passed Q3 2017 as we are now into Q4 2017, so have TAP received any 330neos yet?
 
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alex0easy
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:42 am

Cunard wrote:
It's already passed Q3 2017 as we are now into Q4 2017, so have TAP received any 330neos yet?


I don't think any A330neos have flown yet.
 
santos
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:28 am

The A330neo delivery is delayed until mid 2018.

Basically a thread of just rumours rather than backed up with links or any confirmed info.

TP furthest route is POA btw.
 
Clydenairways
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:29 am

Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:31 am

Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's

It's a tad smaller. Their fleet might possibly have space for A359s if they were interested. The A339 would be a great plane for them (and most airlines), though.
A junkie for A340s, A380s, and of course Her Majesty the Boeing 747. I wish they were financially viable, but it is not to be.
 
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OA940
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:40 am

Wasn't the A330neo meant to do that? Not that I'd be sad to see a 787 in TAP's livery. Or an A350. OR EVEN BOTH WITHOUT REDUCING THE A330NEO ORDER! Well we can dream.
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RalXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 am

Tap is proudly all Airbus, ordered Airbus only and people still say they should order 777s or 787s :banghead:
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:34 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's

It's a tad smaller. Their fleet might possibly have space for A359s if they were interested. The A339 would be a great plane for them (and most airlines), though.


The A340-300 and the A330-900 have the same size of fuselage, I do not want to say the same, as there could be some changes going from A330-200 to -900, like removing A340 specific structure to save weight. You put the same seats in, you get the same number of passengers.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:40 am

The A343 and A333/339 are the same size.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:49 am

Hey guys,
"...eyeing Asian routes..."
I wonder if that might include the former Portuguese colony of Macau, which of course is now Chinese again?
Does anyone know if there is still a market between Lisbon and Macau, or ever was? The only time I have seen a TAP A340 was on the ground at Macau airport in 1996, and I believe TAP were operating daily or near-daily flights between Lisbon and Macau at the time.
As for replacing the A340s, surely the A330-900neo would be a certainty? The Dreamliner would however, look so sharp in TAP's wonderful livery!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
scotron11
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:03 am

The A330neo order was a replacement for their earlier A350 order
 
VC10er
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:38 am

I actually love TAP and would like to see her grow and keep improving. It would be odd for them to take 787’s even if it would be a good aircraft for them, but indeed they are all Airbus, so an A350 order would be nice. I have yet to fly up front on TAP since they installed true lie flat seats. How does their long haul international premium services stand up to the competition?
It “feels” like Portugal is going through a resurgence of interest. Both north and south are wonderful places and Lisbon is one of my favorite cities in the world. I was just there this summer.
The ads for TAP in NYC ex: “See Rome with a stop over in Lisbon” is a great idea - a way for many people to get a taste of such a great country and then plan a full trip to Portugal another time.
I prefer flying over the vacation itself! I go on business trips just so I can fly!
 
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TheLion
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:50 am

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
"...eyeing Asian routes..."
I wonder if that might include the former Portuguese colony of Macau, which of course is now Chinese again?
Does anyone know if there is still a market between Lisbon and Macau, or ever was? The only time I have seen a TAP A340 was on the ground at Macau airport in 1996, and I believe TAP were operating daily or near-daily flights between Lisbon and Macau at the time.
As for replacing the A340s, surely the A330-900neo would be a certainty? The Dreamliner would however, look so sharp in TAP's wonderful livery!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.


In modern times there's never been much of a market, as Portuguese speakers left Macau a long time ago, however TAP did serve Macau towards the end of Portuguese rule, possibly for political reasons.

This old a.net thread has some info:

viewtopic.php?t=237081

And there's a bit more here:

https://airline-memorabilia.blogspot.co ... ntura.html

As stated in the link above, this route began just after Macau's airport was opened (in 1995), and ran from 1996 to 1998, latterly with a stop in BKK as TAP tried to boost profitability.

It's conceivable we could eventually see Europe service from Macau. With a growing economy and some tourist draws (scenery, heritage, history, casinos, tranquility in the south) it could be a destination of the future. To qualify this, I've been and really enjoyed my day out there; the fusion of east and western culture, architecture and food is captivating.

This said, service from Portugal is unlikely for a long time due to the difficulty in filling the plane with O&D passengers, including all business, VFR & tourist traffic. But things can change...
Last edited by TheLion on Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Azoresst
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:52 am

With big news coming up next, TAP is obtaining the first batch of A330neo in the 3rd quarter of 2017 & larger A320neo in 2018-2019.


No, they are not. First delivery of the A330neo is scheduled to be at the end of Q2 with EIS in July.

Whilst they are completing the whole fleet renewal in the next decade TAP has an eye on launching undisclosed or unknown Asian routes at an unknown date but I believe the A340's may be flying throughout 2020's so there is definitely a possible need for a suitable replacement.


Last A340 is to be phased out by 2019 and they're not eyeing any kind of Asian routes as of now. This has been stated by Neelman several times and other high ranks in the company. Neelman even said that any kind of routes from China will be negotiated with his "rich uncle" (yes, he used that term) which is the HNA Group. Also the Portuguese Government is looking for partners to make routes from India and other asian markets that TAP can't reach.

The farest route by TAP is Rio De Janeiro but still flying now. We still have A340's in good terms of technological conditions as we should have acquired a few 777X or 787 in this decade & reducing the A330neo order. I am going to await furthur news on this topic hope this still pushes TAP good profit & sustainability.


I'm not making a comment on this, but If you don't know by now, TAP (the whole group) had a loss of 52M€ on the first semester, this is not the time to make bold moves/plans such as the 777X or the A350, this is the time to make the right moves with planes that are not too big for them nor it will be a niche on their fleet. The only possible scenario that I see that could push routes further then now, is if Airbus decides to put out the 251t A330neo, where I have no doubts that TAP would convert some of their order.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:56 am

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's

It's a tad smaller. Their fleet might possibly have space for A359s if they were interested. The A339 would be a great plane for them (and most airlines), though.


The A330-900 like the A330-300 & the A340-300 are the same length including inside cabin and is not a tad smaller. The only difference would be newer seats with more pitch in the pointy end.

Now the A340-200 & A330-200 are different lengths.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:08 pm

Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's


Except the A330neo doesn't have the legs to replace all A340 routes.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Polot
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:32 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's


Except the A330neo doesn't have the legs to replace all A340 routes.

TAP is using the A340 nowhere near its max ability though. The A340s in TAP's fleet are just a legacy from the early/mid 90s when the A333 had nowhere near as much range as now and the A332 did not exist yet. The A330neo can probably replace most of TAP's A340 routes with no problems.
 
Theseus
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:37 pm

I just looked at the destinations of TAP, and I do not see anything farther than Africa (mostly West Africa), Brazil, and the East Cost of North America. All this should be well within the range of an A330-900neo.

In terms of size, the size of the fuselage is the same as an A340-300. Moreover, has Airbus not done some optimizations on the use of cabin area that are available for all versions of A330s (not just the -R version) ? I think so, but cannot find a link. If so, they even get a bit of room for growth.

I hardly see what they would need more, unless they plan expansion in China, or maybe the very end of South America (but currently,I see no flights to Chile or Argentina...).
 
georgiabill
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:39 pm

Is China Lisbon within range of the A330 Neo?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Polot wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's


Except the A330neo doesn't have the legs to replace all A340 routes.

TAP is using the A340 nowhere near its max ability though. The A340s in TAP's fleet are just a legacy from the early/mid 90s when the A333 had nowhere near as much range as now and the A332 did not exist yet. The A330neo can probably replace most of TAP's A340 routes with no problems.


So what about hot/high performance? I suppose the A330 would take a payload hit on some Brazilian routes, like LIS-CNF and LIS-GRU.

If the NEO is not an issue, TAP operates just 4 A340s and have plenty A330neo incoming.
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LA704
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:43 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's


Except the A330neo doesn't have the legs to replace all A340 routes.


For now...
A 251t version is in discussion and it could replace the A343s.
I think HA, AirAsiaX and others interested as well, so no orphan for Airbus...
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Polot
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:53 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Polot wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Except the A330neo doesn't have the legs to replace all A340 routes.

TAP is using the A340 nowhere near its max ability though. The A340s in TAP's fleet are just a legacy from the early/mid 90s when the A333 had nowhere near as much range as now and the A332 did not exist yet. The A330neo can probably replace most of TAP's A340 routes with no problems.


So what about hot/high performance? I suppose the A330 would take a payload hit on some Brazilian routes, like LIS-CNF and LIS-GRU.

If the NEO is not an issue, TAP operates just 4 A340s and have plenty A330neo incoming.

IB runs A333s on GRU-MAD and seems to do just fine, considering they also have A340s at their disposable to use if desired. CNF is slightly closer than GRU and has a runway only 300' shorter than GRU's longest so there will probably be no major issues there either.
 
Theseus
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:08 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So what about hot/high performance? I suppose the A330 would take a payload hit on some Brazilian routes, like LIS-CNF and LIS-GRU.

If the NEO is not an issue, TAP operates just 4 A340s and have plenty A330neo incoming.


I am wondering what is hard about these routes. I see LIS-CNF is 4609mi and LIS-GRU is 4916mi. Moreover, GRU and LIS are basically at see level, and CNF at about 800m elevation, so not so high. Yes, they are hot during certain seasons, but still not DXB hot. Is this not just fine for a A330-900neo ? (I am no expert, I am just asking...)
 
dcajet
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:12 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
So what about hot/high performance? I suppose the A330 would take a payload hit on some Brazilian routes, like LIS-CNF and LIS-GRU.



There is nothing hot or high about GRU, CNF and LIS. Those routes/airports are just another day in the office for the A330.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:20 pm

Polot wrote:
IB runs A333s on GRU-MAD and seems to do just fine, considering they also have A340s at their disposable to use if desired. CNF is slightly closer than GRU and has a runway only 300' shorter than GRU's longest so there will probably be no major issues there either.


Yes I forgot about IB, it operates the latest 242t A330. I suppose the A330neo would perform slightly better.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:21 pm

Are there any routes for which TP needs the range of the A340?
 
PPVRA
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:23 pm

Theseus wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
So what about hot/high performance? I suppose the A330 would take a payload hit on some Brazilian routes, like LIS-CNF and LIS-GRU.

If the NEO is not an issue, TAP operates just 4 A340s and have plenty A330neo incoming.


I am wondering what is hard about these routes. I see LIS-CNF is 4609mi and LIS-GRU is 4916mi. Moreover, GRU and LIS are basically at see level, and CNF at about 800m elevation, so not so high. Yes, they are hot during certain seasons, but still not DXB hot. Is this not just fine for a A330-900neo ? (I am no expert, I am just asking...)


GRU is 750 m / 2,459 ft elevation
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LXwing
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:32 pm

This whole thread is a bit of a nonsense IMHO.
Starting with the title "Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement" which is false as they are not doing any such thing, and continuing with some of the info advanced by the OP which is also incorrect. And there is actually no point from the OP to discuss, though following posters have raised a few which are worth to clarify.
The A340 on TAP's fleet will be effectively replaced by the A339 currently on order, and there is no need for any more range/cargo capacity for any of their current and upcoming routes (POA is currently farthest, SFO will be in the future). Certainly not for central Brasil destinations such as CNF, where some A333 have actually been taking the place of older A332 to increase pax capacity. The only route where they would probably need an A343 (or replacement) is BOG if served nonstop, but that was previously served on A332 as LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS and was cancelled last year anyway.
If and when TAP decides to open new routes in Asia (not China which will be served by their chinese partners from HNA, but possibly the likes of BKK, NRT, ICN, etc) then they may as well add a handfull of A338 to their current Airbus order and that will do the trick without adding a new type to the fleet. Boeing orders are certainly not an option in the foreseeable future, unlike what the OP seems to be hoping for.
 
dcajet
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:17 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Polot wrote:
IB runs A333s on GRU-MAD and seems to do just fine, considering they also have A340s at their disposable to use if desired. CNF is slightly closer than GRU and has a runway only 300' shorter than GRU's longest so there will probably be no major issues there either.


Yes I forgot about IB, it operates the latest 242t A330. I suppose the A330neo would perform slightly better.


IB's A333 are not 242t. Their A332 are. And the latter, AFAIK don't call at either GRU or GIG. The former do.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
peterj324
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:29 pm

Ummmm doesn't TAP have the A330NEOs on order to replace the A340? The A330NEO has all the range necessary to do all of the current TAP A340 routes. I believe it also has the range to do Asia so they really have no need for the 787 or the capacity increase of the 777X.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:36 pm

If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.
 
Theseus
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:46 pm

PPVRA wrote:
GRU is 750 m / 2,459 ft elevation


Oh, my bad, I was mixing up with GIG. I must be tired tonight, thanks for fixing my mistake!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:52 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Clydenairways wrote:
Surely the A330neo is a perfect replacement for the 340's

It's a tad smaller. Their fleet might possibly have space for A359s if they were interested. The A339 would be a great plane for them (and most airlines), though.


The A340-300 and the A330-900 have the same size of fuselage, I do not want to say the same, as there could be some changes going from A330-200 to -900, like removing A340 specific structure to save weight. You put the same seats in, you get the same number of passengers.

Fleet commonality is best. Since they'll have A338s, if they need more, top off the order. In particular if a 250+ metric ton version is launched. The A350 backlog is too long to meet TAP Portugal's needs.

Lightsaber
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dcajet
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:34 pm

Theseus wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
GRU is 750 m / 2,459 ft elevation


Oh, my bad, I was mixing up with GIG. I must be tired tonight, thanks for fixing my mistake!


Technically speaking, GRU is not a high elevation airport. No mistake made.
.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:38 pm

dcajet wrote:
Theseus wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
GRU is 750 m / 2,459 ft elevation


Oh, my bad, I was mixing up with GIG. I must be tired tonight, thanks for fixing my mistake!


Technically speaking, GRU is not a high elevation airport. No mistake made.
.


When do we speak about a high elevation airport? Any idea on the definition?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
incitatus
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:27 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.


Problem is it looks more and more like Airbus will not make them.

This whole topic seems pointless. TAP is a survivor - one of the few mid-size European carriers from the 1950s to still be around. For their size and network, they do not need two widebodies. 339s will do just fine.
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mjoelnir
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:04 pm

incitatus wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.


Problem is it looks more and more like Airbus will not make them.

This whole topic seems pointless. TAP is a survivor - one of the few mid-size European carriers from the 1950s to still be around. For their size and network, they do not need two widebodies. 339s will do just fine.


What is pointless is this broken record about the A330-800 will be dropped. The first frame is in production, their a pictures of those parts in production. Look at the A330 production and delivery thread post #578.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345571&p=19868265&hilit=a330neo+production#p19868265
 
rbrunner
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:21 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.

As far as I am aware, all TAP routes are presently flown by either A343 or A332, and more recently, by the A333 they recently took over from Singapore Airlines. Whether the longer routes had weight penalties I don't know, but on routes like OPO-GRU (slightly longer than LIS-GRU), the equipment is usually A332.
 
rbrunner
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:30 pm

I mean long haul routes, obviously...
 
georgiabill
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:36 pm

Again asking is LIS to China able to done with their present A330 equipment or would they need to wait for their A330 NEO'S?
 
dcajet
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:34 am

rbrunner wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.

As far as I am aware, all TAP routes are presently flown by either A343 or A332, and more recently, by the A333 they recently took over from Singapore Airlines. Whether the longer routes had weight penalties I don't know, but on routes like OPO-GRU (slightly longer than LIS-GRU), the equipment is usually A332.


TP operates a 332 fleet made up with a/c from different sources, with possibly different MTOWs. Without knowing the specifics of TP's ops, the LIS/OPO-GRU routes are well within the performance specs of an A332.

Further south from GRU, AR operates the 238t and 242t A332 from EZE to MAD and FCO with little restrictions if any most of the times.

KarelXWB wrote:

When do we speak about a high elevation airport? Any idea on the definition?


Depends on the combination of different factors:

https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/l ... tyAltitude[hi-res]%20branded.pdf

(This link may not work on here, but if you copy & paste on your browser it will)
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Azoresst
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:59 am

georgiabill wrote:
Again asking is LIS to China able to done with their present A330 equipment or would they need to wait for their A330 NEO'S?


Neither without restrictions and like I said any kind of flights between China and Portugal will be done by the HNA Group in codeshare with TAP.
 
santos
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:10 am

georgiabill wrote:
Again asking is LIS to China able to done with their present A330 equipment or would they need to wait for their A330 NEO'S?

LIS-PEK is already operated by Beijing Capital Airlines, doubt TP would venture into that route.
 
RalXWB
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Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:31 am

I cannot repeat this often enough: "The first 338 is currently being built."

incitatus wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.


Problem is it looks more and more like Airbus will not make them.

This whole topic seems pointless. TAP is a survivor - one of the few mid-size European carriers from the 1950s to still be around. For their size and network, they do not need two widebodies. 339s will do just fine.
 
rbrunner
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:36 am

incitatus wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
If TAP needs range sometime in the future, they could add a few A330-800.


Problem is it looks more and more like Airbus will not make them.

This whole topic seems pointless. TAP is a survivor - one of the few mid-size European carriers from the 1950s to still be around. For their size and network, they do not need two widebodies. 339s will do just fine.


Airbus are building them.

TAP was founded in 1945. It presently operates 94 aircraft (including the 22 TAP Express frames). Not that mid-sized anymore...
 
airbazar
Posts: 7970
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:44 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
So basically, there's no news here.

Yup! Unbelievable. This entire thread is absolutely ridiculous but i'll reply anyway :)
TAP already has an A340 replacement arriving next year. It's called the A339.
Both the A339 or existing A332's have all the range they need to fly to Asia.
NRT would be the furthest plausible destination that TP would serve in Asia and IB flies that route with an A332 and MAD is at 2,000ft of elevation and hotter than LIS in the Summer.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/IBE6 ... /LEMD/RJAA

Azoresst wrote:
I'm not making a comment on this, but If you don't know by now, TAP (the whole group) had a loss of 52M€ on the first semester, this is not the time to make bold moves/plans such as the 777X or the A350,

I agree that we won't be seeing a 777 or A350 in TPs fleet any time soon, if ever but TP has been making nothing but bold moves for the past couple of years. And the loss in the first semester is nothing new. It's similar to the loss in the first semester of last year and in the end they still ended up with a profit thanks to the Summer and Xmas seasons.
mjoelnir wrote:
What is pointless is this broken record about the A330-800 will be dropped. The first frame is in production, their a pictures of those parts in production. Look at the A330 production and delivery thread post #578.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345571&p=19868265&hilit=a330neo+production#p19868265


That is incorrect. As the article states it, "the first parts for the A330-800 are advancing at manufacturer sites throughout Europe." and "All A330s are built on the same production line so orders can be fulfilled in full flexibility according to market demands". There is nothing about those parts that is unique to the A338. They can just as well be used for the A339. Until final assembly begins no one can be sure that it will actually happen and even then, Hawaiian airlines which is the only customer is now said to be "having doubts about it".
 
LXwing
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:32 pm

Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
Both the A339 or existing A332's have all the range they need to fly to Asia.
NRT would be the furthest plausible destination that TP would serve in Asia and IB flies that route with an A332 and MAD is at 2,000ft of elevation and hotter than LIS in the Summer.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/IBE6 ... /LEMD/RJAA


That is not true. IB flies the MAD-NRT exclusively with the latest A332s they got with 242t MTOW, at the limit of that aircraft's real world range. The A339s (at least the initial MTOW version TAP will get) will have less range than the most capable A332s, thus they are not good for LIS-NRT by a good margin (less 700nm on paper). The most capable A332s on TAP's fleet have 233t MTOW, so they are even more limited than future A339s, thus they definitely do not have the legs for any far east Asia destination whether it is NRT, ICN or even BKK.
That's where the A338 might come in handy, if ever TAP decides to expand in Asia.
 
incitatus
Posts: 3029
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Tap Portugal eyes potential A340 replacement

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:54 pm

mjoelnir wrote:

What is pointless is this broken record about the A330-800 will be dropped. The first frame is in production, their a pictures of those parts in production. Look at the A330 production and delivery thread post #578.
TAP
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345571&p=19868265&hilit=a330neo+production#p19868265


Apparently not pointless. Even if that frame gets made, there is a good chance no airline flies 338s.

As for TAP not being a mid-size carrier, sorry, mid-size carrier is a very accurate label for it. And its home market is quite limited in size. TAP can only survive if it is financially prudent. There is very little chance for TAP to recoup the expense of a second wide-body fleet.
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