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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:52 pm

As expected, Bregier will not extend his mandate and leave the company in 2018.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 61789.html

He will be succeeded by Guillaume Faury.
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BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:34 pm

Just caught this from Reuters:

[PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus (AIR.PA) planemaking chief Fabrice Bregier is leaving the aerospace group after losing a long-running power battle with Chief Executive Tom Enders, three sources familiar with the matter said on Thursday.

He will be replaced at the helm of the main planemaking division by Guillaume Faury, the 49-year-old head of Airbus Helicopters who is not however expected to inherit Bregier’s broader title as chief operating officer, they added.

Airbus declined to comment


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1E82W5
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:47 pm

Good to know Europeans stays true to form. Even in aviation, they all chase the title but at the end, the German always wins.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:40 am

As predicted by some here & to my worst fears, the French Press has just confirmed Fabrice Brégier is leaving Airbus,
replaced by Guillaume Faury, head of Airbus Helicopters :

http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2017/12/14/20005-20171214ARTFIG00361-airbus-fabrice-bregier-numero-deux-du-groupe-devrait-annoncer-sa-demission.php
https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/airbus-le-conseil-confirme-le-depart-de-fabrice-bregier-remplace-par-guillaume-faury-761789.html
http://information.tv5monde.com/en-continu/airbus-programme-le-depart-du-tandem-de-direction-endersbregier-209100

Two days ago, this article stated that the decision had been reached between Paris & Berlin to make "Tabula Rasa" of the current Airbus leadership, but in order to not destabilize the company, TE & FB could not be sacked at the same time. FB is said to have sought backing with the French government but to no avail, he is to be sacrificed given the situation. Article also says the atmosphere within Airbus is "deleterious" & "worse than ever"
https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 61485.html
 
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DWC
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:16 am

Fast translaton of the paragraph below : les ECHOS states that, "according to their sources", Brégier was never implicated in the scandal, Marwan Lahoud actually reported directly to Enders. Brégier in turn was seen in Parisian circles as the "natural heir" to Tom Enders, as I stated the other day. Article adds that while it "may look unfair" for Brégier, it is his "lack of public support for Enders stance" in this matter that intensified the "rivalry" these past weeks & led Enders to ask the board for the "head of Brégier".

"Selon nos informations, Fabrice Brégier n'a été à aucun moment impliqué dans ces contrats, gérés depuis Paris par un ancien service marketing du groupe aujourd'hui dissous, sous la responsabilité de Marwan Lahoud, l'ancien directeur de la stratégie et du marketing du groupe EADS parti en février. Ce dernier reportait directement à Tom Enders. Mais cette affaire a achevé de détériorer des relations déjà difficiles avec Tom Enders, qui n'aurait pas apprécié le manque de soutien public de son numéro deux dans cette affaire. Ce qui l'aurait décidé à demander au conseil la tête de ce dernier."
https://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-servi ... 138579.php
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:18 am

KarelXWB wrote:
As expected, Bregier will not extend his mandate and leave the company in 2018.

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 61789.html

He will be succeeded by Guillaume Faury.


Reuters English link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN1E82W5

Bloomberg ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ds-in-2019 ) summarizes the situation as:

Airbus SE is preparing for a complete overhaul of its top management, with the two most senior executives readying their departure as the European planemaker grapples with corruption allegations.

Chief Executive Officer Tom Enders plans to step down when his term ends in 2019, while Chief Operating Officer Fabrice Bregier is also set to leave, possibly as soon as February, said people familiar with the matter who asked not to be named because the decision hasn’t been announced publicly.

Guillaume Faury, CEO of the helicopters business, will take Bregier’s place at No. 2, becoming first in line to take over the top job when Enders retires, one of the people said.

Enders will still be with the company for “quite a while,” he said by email, declining to comment specifically on reports that he won’t’ stand for a new term. “Reports about my demise were premature!” he said, referring to articles in French newspapers this week.

Note the vagueness on when Enders will leave, which is a refusal to confirm the earlier reports that he will leave in Feb 2019. Also note the changes mean that Faury now has the inside track for the top job.

DWC wrote:
Fast translaton of the paragraph below : les ECHOS states that, "according to their sources", Brégier was never implicated in the scandal, Marwan Lahoud actually reported directly to Enders. Brégier in turn was seen in Parisian circles as the "natural heir" to Tom Enders, as I stated the other day. Article adds that while it "may look unfair" for Brégier, it is his "lack of public support for Enders stance" in this matter that intensified the "rivalry" these past weeks & led Enders to ask the board for the "head of Brégier".

Very interesting! Google Translate of https://www.latribune.fr/depeches/reute ... vions.html says:

Two sources said that Fabrice Brégier had asked, in vain, the support of the French government, as Tom Enders had obtained from Berlin, according to sources.

The Frenchman also sought the support of his compatriot Denis Ranque, chairman of the board of directors.

"He (Brégier) tried what was considered a coup," said a group source.

So he went to the French government and to the board, looking for support, and clearly did not get it. As you wrote:

DWC wrote:
Two days ago, this article stated that the decision had been reached between Paris & Berlin to make "Tabula Rasa" of the current Airbus leadership, but in order to not destabilize the company, TE & FB could not be sacked at the same time. FB is said to have sought backing with the French government but to no avail, he is to be sacrificed given the situation.


Seems perhaps FB made it easier for himself to be shown the door first by his "coup"?

https://www.ft.com/content/cf2b251a-e02 ... 1e63a52f9c was released before the board meeting and is interesting:

Denis Ranque, the chairman of Airbus, has acknowledged that senior management will have to change after a raft of corruption investigations that have rocked Europe’s flagship aircraft maker.

“There is no strict timeline,” Mr Ranque said in an interview with the Financial Times. “That enables us to make a staggered and reasonable approach to this. Some changes will be needed but it is far too early to say when, who and how.”

And:

The pressure for change comes as Airbus seeks to prove to anti-corruption authorities that it is strengthening compliance procedures in the wake of allegations about its use of middlemen to win aircraft deals. The company is facing investigations in the UK, France, Germany and Austria.

A change of top management — even though neither executive is accused of wrongdoing — is seen as crucial to winning the support of UK and French anti-corruption authorities for a settlement.

Suggests to me that the board already realized it had to turn over upper management in order to satisfy the anti-corruption authorities, and that Brégier's "coup" made it easier for them to send him packing.
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:17 am

Confirmed - Airbus Board of Directors Announces Top Management Succession Plan
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... nning.html
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:34 am

Hardly "Breaking News."
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:11 am

Revelation wrote:
Suggests to me that the board already realized it had to turn over upper management in order to satisfy the anti-corruption authorities, and that Brégier's "coup" made it easier for them to send him packing.

I don't have enough insider information on how the two men got along day by day - in any case "not well" per all newspapers. The FT adds :

The two have been at odds since Mr Enders sought to strengthen his grip on the group with a restructuring that deprived Mr Brégier of his autonomy as president and chief executive of Airbus’s biggest division, the commercial aircraft operation. Mr Brégier was redesignated as chief operating officer of the whole company, while Mr Enders became the face of Airbus.
https://www.ft.com/content/4c49e504-e12 ... 1e63a52f9c


But there is more to that, just from information shared in the media :
1. see my detailed presentation earlier of Brégier qualities, achievements & 25 years within Airbus : he is an asset, not a liability.
2. Brégier headed Airbus Commercial Aircrafts, by far the biggest division of Airbus in relative & absolute terms ( the whole group took the name of that division ), so that basically Airbus had two bosses as the other divisions weigh relatively little in comparison
3. Enders is a "liberal" ( in Europe, means the contrary than in the US ) who made Airbus a truly publicly traded company, stock value triplicated under his leadership, but the scandal broke after mismanagement by the Paris-based marketing under his direct supervision ( not Brégier's ), it is also he who hired & then fired Paul Eremenko, that's two major issues on Enders' shoulders who also happens to have asked for Bregier's sacking.
4. In such circumstances, after overhauling Airbus structure ten years ago & supervising the successful ramp-ups of the A320 & A350 ( compare that to the A380. problems arose from FB predecessors, nor are P&W's problems his doing ), it is only natural that Brégier would try to defend his vision & position.
5. Days ago, FB also stated he was "very surprised" about the rumours of his "imminent leaving" the company, so if there ever was a coup, looks more like it was done ( successfully ) by Enders or whatever faction behind him.
As we all know, history is (re)written by the winner.
I wonder what Leahy thinks of all this...
It all looks very amateurish.

The FT also adds that Enders will leave & that Faury will probably replace him, a fast-track rise if there ever was one ( he is only 49 ). In many ways, Faury has a similar profile to Brégier, both would have been a smashing ticket.
Mr Faury had met every performance target set during his stewardship of the helicopter division, said one person close to the board. Although the unit continues to suffer problems because of the downturn in the oil and gas sector — a significant market — and safety concerns after a number of crashes, his handling of these issues had demonstrated his abilities, the person said.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:11 am

Bound to have something to do with the brewing bribes scandal.3 top guys going in different ways at the same time.You never do that in normal circumstances.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:11 am

We finally found out who is the hate emoji dropper on FB whenever the site posts an Airbus shot... oh wait there are too many with their heads up in the nether regions on here sadly
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:28 am

Or in other words: he was not going to be appointed successor to Enders, which meant that leaving Airbus was the only way left for him.

As for Enders, he has accumulated an immense amount of power around him, and Airbus has become centralized in TLS like never before. Ironically, under a German CEO, Airbus is now more French. Will the trend continue under his successor?

Bound to have something to do with the brewing bribes scandal

Not really, although it might be made to look like that. There are other power plays going on here, which we won't find out about until a few years have passed.
Hint: see also Siemens buying Alstom, and what will happen at Safran & Thales in the next years.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:13 pm

Airbus needs to settle it's franco-german rivalry fast. It might not be allowed to paralize the company again. Macron and Merkel must get along. Looks like a top level issue to me.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:55 pm

Noshow wrote:
Airbus needs to settle it's franco-german rivalry fast. It might not be allowed to paralize the company again. Macron and Merkel must get along. Looks like a top level issue to me.

Difficult because of the trillions to share between their respective economies.
Macron & Merkel have shown to be wise & balanced leaders, but the economics & industrial challenges are such that every new model or version has been & will be subject to endless negociations about who gets what % of the work and the profits, lest one get an epsilon advantage.
The UK's monopoly on the "smart part" of the airframes is safe for time being, but depending on how Brexit unfolds, wings are also a juicy market both Continental countries could reconsider in the next decade(s).
Add to that the FALs abroad & the sheer number of subcontractors, and industrial balances balloon into a complex variable geometry conumdrum, of which Boeing's reliance on Japanese subconstructors is a good simplification.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:55 pm

flee wrote:
Confirmed - Airbus Board of Directors Announces Top Management Succession Plan
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... nning.html

It's good to see it in writing. We see Enders is no longer vague about his future. Maybe this was the price to be paid for Brégier's head?

r2rho wrote:
Bound to have something to do with the brewing bribes scandal

Not really, although it might be made to look like that. There are other power plays going on here, which we won't find out about until a few years have passed.

DWC wrote:
5. Days ago, FB also stated he was "very surprised" about the rumours of his "imminent leaving" the company, so if there ever was a coup, looks more like it was done ( successfully ) by Enders or whatever faction behind him.
As we all know, history is (re)written by the winner.
I wonder what Leahy thinks of all this...
It all looks very amateurish.

So many choices on what the story is.
1) Board decides a clean sweep is needed to satisfy the anti-corruption authorities, everything else is a fall-out of this.
2) Brégier resents being pushed aside by Enders, tries to rally support from the French government and the board but overplays his hand, so he falls on his sword
3) Enders pushes aside Brégier so he can take control of sales and claim credit for sweeping out corruption, Brégier resists so he's shown the door.
4) Brégier decides "the time is right to pursue other opportunities outside" just like the Airbus press release says. :biggrin:

FT ( https://www.ft.com/content/4c49e504-e12 ... 1e63a52f9c ) says:

We are confident we have taken the right decisions to ensure Airbus’ long term stability and future success,” said Denis Ranque, Airbus chairman.
...
The decision follows a board meeting on Thursday at which Tom Enders, the German-born chief executive, formally told the board he would not seek a third mandate after his term expires at the end of April 2019. No successor to Mr Enders has been decided, according to people with knowledge of the situation. But it was clear that Mr Brégier would not be considered, said two sources.
...
The search and list is not complete but it is clear [Fabrice] is not going to be on the list,” said one person with knowledge of the situation.

I'm sure Brégier can't be happy to read that along with his morning croissants and coffee.

In reading the posts above and the FT article, it mainly seems to be bad timing for Brégier, perhaps aided by some palace politics guided by Enders and/or his allies.

It seems the Board really did want a clean sweep of the upper management, and that meant Brégier had no shot at the job.

As I wrote in #188:

Charles Champion, head of engineering, must leave the company by the end of the year because of retirement. Same fate for Tom Williams, the director of operations and for the French Didier Evrard, program director who oversees the entire Airbus range

So we see it really will be a clean sweep of that entire generation of senior leaders at Airbus by the time Brégier leaves in Feb 2018.

And one of the articles suggests they will not learn about the penalties from the corruption till after Enders leaves in 2019 so it could mean a rocky 2018 for upper management.
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:15 pm

DWC wrote:
Of course, that is how companies proceed.
The Board probably knows better, but from my profiling they "may" be throwing both babies ( FB & TE ) with the bathwater ( the legal wrongdoing ). I have no stock nor vested interest in Airbus but, right or wrong, I consider Brégier as an unusual asset for Airbus.


Unusual asset? People retire. Whether Enders leaves in 2019 or 2026 won't change the inevitable that somebody else will have to takeover at some point. There are many other talents available. Some people believe Airbus needs Leahy, but we know Boeing had like a dozen different sales guys during Leahy's mandate and seem to have done just fine.

parapente wrote:
Bound to have something to do with the brewing bribes scandal.3 top guys going in different ways at the same time.You never do that in normal circumstances.


According to the well informed news paper Les Echos, Brégier itself is not related to the fraude investigation. I understand the timing may suggest otherwise, but note that people are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'd rather suspect the Board wants new faces at upper management, hence Brégier has no chance of getting that job. Sometimes, when people cannot grow, they leave.
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
So many choices on what the story is

Yes, many possible readings depending on how one reads the world & therefore there is not a single one, usually two as lawyers show us repeatedly, a same fact or article of Law even can be interpreted in any two ways 8-)

KarelXWB wrote:
Unusual asset? People retire. Whether Enders leaves in 2019 or 2026 won't change the inevitable that somebody else will have to takeover at some point. There are many other talents available. Some people believe Airbus needs Leahy, but we know Boeing had like a dozen different sales guys during Leahy's mandate and seem to have done just fine.

Yes, "unusual", I am a profiler by training : FB has something most people don't. His good-naturedness for instance ( like Boeing's Allan Mulally, even better at that ) rarely found in corporations made the JL 2013 deal possible. While JL's CEO officially stated that due to the 787 problems it was unsound to rely on one OEM only, few know it was actually FB who broke the ice & did it, not sales-guru Leahy who never achieved that in 20 years in the house.

Leahy essentially did his job by 1999, the past 18 years was just keeping the 50% market share. I don't think you can compare the Boeing's boys with him : Leahy nearly triplicated Airbus market share from 18% to 52% at one point, while Boeing's has stagnated at around 50% in all past decades. Worse, you probably know that Boeing meant to crush the A320 in the early 1980s & then the CSeries this year : both strategies failed pathetically while rejuvenating a 50 year-old design many here snear at ( I personnally take my hat off to Boeing engineers for achieving this, means the revamped product is good even at 40% market share ).

So no, Boeing's dozen different guys actually mean they were average & needed to be replaced one after the other. Fact is Boeing's market dominance has not shifted from a iota since Leahy gave them a formidable competitor to their size, all while breaking into many all-Boeing blue-chip airlines. Now that he is leaving, with their current line-up & back-log, Airbus can afford to have a series of 12 lack-lustre flat-Earth salesmen & still manage to keep their marketshare. Note that Leahy instructed his team to never go above 50-52% ( source in the Leahy thread ) so as not to trigger a trades war or more litigations than there are between the US & the EU.

According to the well informed news paper Les Echos, Brégier itself is not related to the fraude investigation. I understand the timing may suggest otherwise, but note that people are considered innocent until proven guilty. I'd rather suspect the Board wants new faces at upper management, hence Brégier has no chance of getting that job. Sometimes, when people cannot grow, they leave.

The Law does say people are innocent until proven guilty, but that is wishful thinking : not considering the competent & natural heir whom Justice officially found innocent is no different from condemning a guilty. The Board has indeed prefered to go for a total clean-up but, mind you, only to prove their good faith to Justice & to minimize the fines to come, FB as human capital was not considered. From what I read in the newspapers & shared with you here, Enders was the supervisor to the Marketing team in Paris, so even if not guilty he was responsible & thus should have been first on the ejectable seat ; flushing Brégier along down the toilet was not only cheap, it is at the expense of Airbus' future - a corporate delinquence imho. Right or wrong, I deem FB to be a better "corporocrat" than many other competent ones at Airbus. As stated above, his successor is similar in many ways, but both together would have been a hard nut for the competition, not just the friends in Seattle : Russia & China are looming on the horizon, not unlike Airbus in the 1970s, we know what arrogance & short-sightedness can lead to.


That been said, gentlemen, I have enjoyed this thread immensely & I thank you for all the good arguments put forth 8-)
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:36 pm

DWC wrote:
The Law does say people are innocent until proven guilty, but that is wishful thinking : not considering the competent & natural heir whom Justice officially found innocent is no different from condemning a guilty. The Board has indeed prefered to go for a total clean-up but, mind you, only to prove their good faith to Justice & to minimize the fines to come, FB as human capital was not considered. From what I read in the newspapers & shared with you here, Enders was the supervisor to the Marketing team in Paris, so even if not guilty he was responsible & thus should have been first on the ejectable seat ; flushing Brégier along down the toilet was not only cheap, it is at the expense of Airbus' future - a corporate delinquence imho. Right or wrong, I deem FB to be a better "corporocrat" than many other competent ones at Airbus.

I acknowledge your points about FB. It seems he's "done the right thing" and accepted his fate. I've read he did get something of a nice send off, two years salary, which was said to be an Airbus traditional parting gift for senior executives. Now at age 56 he can slide into another corporate executive leadership role and/or take on a portfolio of consulting and/or board membership roles. Unfortunately for him it seems he didn't have enough Airbus shares to make a killing on the great A380 insider trading fortunate market timing stock sale, but I'm sure he's done well for himself since.

DWC wrote:
As stated above, his successor is similar in many ways, but both together would have been a hard nut for the competition, not just the friends in Seattle : Russia & China are looming on the horizon, not unlike Airbus in the 1970s, we know what arrogance & short-sightedness can lead to.

Hmm, you seem to be giving support for the rationale Boeing is floating (via Loren Thompson et al) for going after BBD...

DWC wrote:
That been said, gentlemen, I have enjoyed this thread immensely & I thank you for all the good arguments put forth 8-)

I agree. In particular I'm grateful for your enthusiasm and your contributions from your own experience as well as those from French media sources.

In days past (let's say a decade or more ago) I felt a.net lacked sufficient input from European sources, media and otherwise, despite the fact that the original site came from Europe. Now thanks to you and several others that has changed. Now we seem to have not as many good sources from the US (i.e. Seattle Times does not seem to give us the "inside scoop" as much as it used to) yet am glad we still have input from various insiders from all around the world. It makes this site an interesting place to visit.
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
Hmm, you seem to be giving support for the rationale Boeing is floating (via Loren Thompson et al) for going after BBD...

Actually no, I don't even know who she is. But I do think the tariffs asked on the CSeries & the backfiring speak very poorly of the friends in Seattle ( or Chicago ).
I was referring at how Boeing let Airbus play catch up so fast, we had this discussion with the Japanese photo, audio & car industries. While I love Boeing's big widebodies ( despite them being noisy ), I do feel Boeing has had a bunch of flat-Earthers running it & who did not see the danger coming from the other side of the Pond : that is lack of vision. It is intelligence that has led to the ME3 rise in their own ways, government aids do not explain much ( hint : Alitalia, AF for a long while, etc. ). Granted, the 757 & 767 were excellent responses to the A300 / A310, but Boeing has pampered a flying NB dinosaur & handed Airbus a new NB line for free...

Well, seems the Airbus board has outsmarted Boeing in stupidity

CHALLENGES is the second best professional French publication dedicated to the finance & industrial sectors.
I encourage anyone to read it in full through Google Translate. I know people intimate with Airbus who consider Brégier "as the best CEO Airbus has ever had", but Enders finally managed Airbus in a typical teutonic flat-Earth way ( perhaps to also save his rear ). The media abroad and members here should analyze the situation better & in depth to see the long-term consequences and not perfunctorily bow amen to a scared, shallow & short-sighted board. Enders is a philistine who ruined, perhaps ended even, the momentum for Airbus & provided a relief to Boeing. Enders should be fired & indicted for mismanagement :

Nobody dared to believe it. The disaster scenario evoked in recent days has nonetheless materialized [...] behind the carefully chosen words, it is a bloody settlement that the aeronautical microcosm has witnessed [...] In the corridors of Airbus, many are devastated. "The result is deplorable, adds a connoisseur of the group.The one who did the job is fired.And the culprit has the trust of the board to handle the transition."

Yellow line crossed

How did we get to this field of ruins? To understand, a step back is necessary. The duo Enders-Brégier, behind the official image of a cordial agreement, has always been based on a subtle diplomatic calculation. Since taking office in 2012, Enders tolerated a powerful Brégier, as long as he did not openly compete for the number one position. The French leader accepted his position as number two, even reluctantly, provided that did not empty his position of its substance as boss of Commercial Aircrafts. This is the yellow line that was crossed by the German boss: after recovering full powers over finance, human resources and communication, he also benefited from the Gemini restructuring plan, announced in September 2016, to remove Fabrice Brégier from commercial management. Eric Schulz, successor to the supervisor John Leahy, will report directly to Tom Enders, and no longer to the boss of Commercial aircrafts. A strange choice, the opposite of that of the great rival Boeing [...] Tom Enders considered that Fabrice Brégier did not support him enough, and even that he tried to take advantage of the trauma to become caliph in the place of the caliph. The German leader even demanded that the number two put an end to his contract with the agency Image 7 of Anne Méaux. Brégier felt he had nothing to do with the two cases of corruption, suspicions focusing on a former division Strategy and Marketing Organization (SMO) directly attached to Enders.

The board of directors reportedly told him last July that he would not be Tom Enders' successor, an astonishing decision before any selection process was launched. Since then, the number two Airbus seems to have sought at Bercy and the Elysee, but also from the chairman of the board Denis Ranque, a support he never found. One thing is certain: the war had gone too far for the duo to continue to act as if nothing had happened. The clash was inevitable. It is both resounding and destructive.

For the departure of Fabrice Brégier leaves a Airbus very weakened. Former boss of missile MBDA and Airbus Helicopters (ex-Eurocopter), this 56-year-old X-Mines had the upper hand on the programs and industrial organization of the group. It was he who had successfully completed the restructuring plan Power 8. He managed with an iron fist the long-range A350 program, allowing him not to fall back into the woes of the A380 nightmare. He also was in charge of the historic rise in Airbus delivery rates, including an A320 family that goes from 42 devices produced per month in 2015 to 60 monthly in 2019. He managed to get Airbus into the Japanese companies, Boeing's turf, with an A350 order by Japan Airlines and an A380 one by ANA. "The best boss in the history of Airbus", affirmed someone familiar with the executive committee a few hours from the famous board. "His departure would be a disaster in the current context," confirmed Françoise Vallin, union delegate CFE-CGC Airbus.
[...]
the big winner of this great unpacking, without having moved a finger, is the American rival Boeing. A true Christmas present before the hour, offered on a platter by a ripped executive committee, an overwhelmed board, and absent Government shareholders. Sad times.

https://www.challenges.fr/entreprise/aeronautique/le-depart-de-fabrice-bregier-un-seisme-majeur-pour-airbus_520233
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:49 am

DWC wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Hmm, you seem to be giving support for the rationale Boeing is floating (via Loren Thompson et al) for going after BBD...

Actually no, I don't even know who she is. But I do think the tariffs asked on the CSeries & the backfiring speak very poorly of the friends in Seattle ( or Chicago ).
I was referring at how Boeing let Airbus play catch up so fast, we had this discussion with the Japanese photo, audio & car industries. While I love Boeing's big widebodies ( despite them being noisy ), I do feel Boeing has had a bunch of flat-Earthers running it & who did not see the danger coming from the other side of the Pond : that is lack of vision. It is intelligence that has led to the ME3 rise in their own ways, government aids do not explain much ( hint : Alitalia, AF for a long while, etc. ). Granted, the 757 & 767 were excellent responses to the A300 / A310, but Boeing has pampered a flying NB dinosaur & handed Airbus a new NB line for free...

My point is that Boeing is saying that it is going after BBD to try to stop a "second Airbus" from emerging. At least that's what they say, either directly or through well-compensated consultants such as Loren Thompson. You can read his words at https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomp ... on-cseries and other places if you care to. You are pointing out how Boeing let the "first Airbus" emerge. I find the two things to be in a strange kind of alignment.
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:15 am

Revelation wrote:
My point is that Boeing is saying that it is going after BBD to try to stop a "second Airbus" from emerging. At least that's what they say, either directly or through well-compensated consultants such as Loren Thompson. You can read his words at https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthomp ... on-cseries and other places if you care to. You are pointing out how Boeing let the "first Airbus" emerge. I find the two things to be in a strange kind of alignment.

Ok, I understand better now. About that article :
1. Boeing did it very clumsily as discussed elsewhere, amongst which antagonizing much of the profession, Delta ( so was sure to lose the order despite the merits of the A321 ), the Canadian government ( so lost the fighter order & be sure AC will lean a little more towards Airbus/CSeries than on the 737 ).
2. The smart way to outcompete an entrant is not by being a bully with Washington, but to play along acceptable international rules, offer systematically the best product with room for evolution & at an attractive price, have a coherent line-up & control over all the industrial processes to maximize economies of scale. Instead, they have an optimized 737 but with no room for further development, whereas the Airbus A320 series still has aplenty & with an additional top notch series in the small NB segment ( unless Boeing ties up with Embraer ). If I were Boeing, I'd be concerned, because other than all these, there are 2 new NB entrants who control a sizable amount of the world market through lease corps & particularly in fast growing Asia ; also because due to deferred costs the benefits of both the 787 & 777X are a decade away, if not more.
3. That article is biased & author's thinktank not perspicaceous. For starters, the EU launch aids were never to take US jobs but to recover European marketshare & jobs taken by the US ( Caravelle, Comet, Trident, etc. - Boeing & DC achieved that by tayloring far better frames to commercial needs ), then Europeans have a whole encyclopedia learnt from the US about how to kill competition : noise restriction regulation ( that prevented Concorde sold or flying at supersonic speed over the US, was even banned from JFK at first ), military subsidies to fund commercial aircrafts ( the 707 had a tanker version plus the AWACS, the 747 was first a military transporter, to say nothing of military tech channelled to the civilian sector ), Boeing exclusive contracts or buying out Airbus orders ( SQ ) or selling 737 at reap-off prices ( Ryanair who resold some at a profit ), and above all ignores the WTO provisions for launch aids in "strategic & sensible sectors".
4. There was some talk about the CSeries landing in Chinese hands if neither big OEMs helped, so one could assume Airbus also agreed to keep the Chinese civil industry from developping even faster.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:41 pm

I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus. So either they weren't doing their jobs properly, were complicit in the paying of the bribes, or, chose too ignore what was going on, because, "hey, business is booming, we're getting all these great new sales and that is all that matters". Whichever of the former it is, there is no way that Airbus can move forward and maintain ANY of the current high ranking office holders. If the current Airbus Board of Directors does let any stay on, then the investigating authorities, would more than likely be asking additional questions.

Expect every senior manager to go in the next few years, if not out already. The fines will be enormous in a monetary value, but in real terms to Airbus, a minor blip on the balance sheet and most likely, only a fraction of the monetary amount the sales garnered through the bribes paid. If the "punishment" handed out too Airbus isn't seen as sufficient by the powers that be, then expect direct government action, by European and foreign, non aligned to Airbus governments, ie : U.S.A. Anywhere Airbus sales were made in recent history could be further investigated.

The best thing for Airbus to do, is to be seen to jump higher than what any investigation office wants them to do, be pro active in getting rid of any person remotely connected to the investigations and when the time comes, admit guilt, pay the fines and of course promise to do everything in their power to ensure such things don't happen again.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:11 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive.

The fines will be enormous in a monetary value, but in real terms to Airbus, a minor blip on the balance sheet

The best thing for Airbus to do, is to be seen to jump higher than what any investigation office wants them to do, be pro active in getting rid of any person remotely connected to the investigations and when the time comes, admit guilt, pay the fines and of course promise to do everything in their power to ensure such things don't happen again.

1-3 billions in fines is one bracket put forth, plus the threat for Airbus of being shunned from public markets for 5 years.
Just short of a death sentence.
So no one is under estimating the impact.

What is at issue is that the most competent Airbus officer, who per the press is not involved in the wrongdoings, is ousted, while the person supervizing those being investigated is kept to supervize the transition, he who as you said, should have known, it was his job to know.
Now, this goes further than that : Enders has been dangerously shifting the balance between France & Germany to the latter's interest, the Siemens JV is one, the 4th A320 FAL in Hamburg another. This, the illicit middlemen & hoarding power as described in the article I translated for the forum, show Enders to be short-sighted & to have put Airbus is a very weak position, while at the same time beheading the person most capable of reversing the trend. CEO's have been sacked for much less.
Plus the fragilized Airbus leadership also threatens the A380 & the strategic price positionings it commands ( discussed in another thread ), for it has no credibility now for the 10 years garantee EK is asking. JL & STC must be stunned by the stupidity of it all.

Last, being more royalist than the King is idiotic, "jumping higher than the investigation" can be neck breaking, actually that is what has happened. What mattered here is pragmatism & as the article concludes, the Board is scared & irresponsible, not up to its task, specially that many crucial long-timers are retiring next year or in 2019.
Last edited by DWC on Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:18 pm

DWC wrote:
Ok, I understand better now. About that article :
1. Boeing did it very clumsily as discussed elsewhere, amongst which antagonizing much of the profession, Delta ( so was sure to lose the order despite the merits of the A321 ), the Canadian government ( so lost the fighter order & be sure AC will lean a little more towards Airbus/CSeries than on the 737 ).
2. The smart way to outcompete an entrant is not by being a bully with Washington, but to play along acceptable international rules, offer systematically the best product with room for evolution & at an attractive price, have a coherent line-up & control over all the industrial processes to maximize economies of scale. Instead, they have an optimized 737 but with no room for further development, whereas the Airbus A320 series still has aplenty & with an additional top notch series in the small NB segment ( unless Boeing ties up with Embraer ). If I were Boeing, I'd be concerned, because other than all these, there are 2 new NB entrants who control a sizable amount of the world market through lease corps & particularly in fast growing Asia ; also because due to deferred costs the benefits of both the 787 & 777X are a decade away, if not more.
3. That article is biased & author's thinktank not perspicaceous. For starters, the EU launch aids were never to take US jobs but to recover European marketshare & jobs taken by the US ( Caravelle, Comet, Trident, etc. - Boeing & DC achieved that by tayloring far better frames to commercial needs ), then Europeans have a whole encyclopedia learnt from the US about how to kill competition : noise restriction regulation ( that prevented Concorde sold or flying at supersonic speed over the US, was even banned from JFK at first ), military subsidies to fund commercial aircrafts ( the 707 had a tanker version plus the AWACS, the 747 was first a military transporter, to say nothing of military tech channelled to the civilian sector ), Boeing exclusive contracts or buying out Airbus orders ( SQ ) or selling 737 at reap-off prices ( Ryanair who resold some at a profit ), and above all ignores the WTO provisions for launch aids in "strategic & sensible sectors".
4. There was some talk about the CSeries landing in Chinese hands if neither big OEMs helped, so one could assume Airbus also agreed to keep the Chinese civil industry from developping even faster.

I agree that military spending distorts the commercial market, however it's hard to see how you could remove its influence. The Wright Brothers made their first sale to the military, and the first man killed in an aircraft was a military pilot learning how to fly the Wright Flyer. All of Airbus's ancestors were involved in military projects, and they still are, just not to the same scale, but that's because Europe chooses to spend less on its military and more on other things. It's clear the US was in far better shape economically during the Cold War era but the first jets were German and British, and it was Europe's own decisions that largely prevented them from being stronger players in that era and beyond.

And the "747 was first a military transporter" line is a great falsehood. Someone who could explain this is Joe Sutter, the chief engineer on the 747 Project:

The design of the 747 has always been surrounded by a big rumor, in that when Boeing lost the Air Force CX-HLS competition, that ultimately led to the Lockheed C-5, they took their design and converted it to the 747.

“The Boeing CX-HLS proposal would have made a very lousy airliner,” Sutter said. “We started with a clean slate. Pretty much the only thing that survived from the Air Force competition were the high-bypass engines.

Ref: http://www.airlinereporter.com/2014/10/ ... oeing-747/

And to play devil's advocate, spending a few millions on lawyer's fees really is a lot cheaper than spending billions to develop a direct competitor to the C Series. Neither A or B had any intention on entering that market at all since it's clear it will be small compared to the A320/B737 market, and both were doing their best to kill off the C Series. Airbus has gotten a nice present from all of this, but the fact that it was a nice present only supports the idea that BBD could not make a go of it even after getting massive amounts of government subsidies. Time will tell if it ever becomes a profit center for Airbus or not.

jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus. So either they weren't doing their jobs properly, were complicit in the paying of the bribes, or, chose too ignore what was going on, because, "hey, business is booming, we're getting all these great new sales and that is all that matters". Whichever of the former it is, there is no way that Airbus can move forward and maintain ANY of the current high ranking office holders. If the current Airbus Board of Directors does let any stay on, then the investigating authorities, would more than likely be asking additional questions.

Expect every senior manager to go in the next few years, if not out already. The fines will be enormous in a monetary value, but in real terms to Airbus, a minor blip on the balance sheet and most likely, only a fraction of the monetary amount the sales garnered through the bribes paid. If the "punishment" handed out too Airbus isn't seen as sufficient by the powers that be, then expect direct government action, by European and foreign, non aligned to Airbus governments, ie : U.S.A. Anywhere Airbus sales were made in recent history could be further investigated.

The best thing for Airbus to do, is to be seen to jump higher than what any investigation office wants them to do, be pro active in getting rid of any person remotely connected to the investigations and when the time comes, admit guilt, pay the fines and of course promise to do everything in their power to ensure such things don't happen again.

I agree the fines will be very dramatic and very traumatic. It seems the end result will be as you say, a generation of Airbus leaders are either being shown the door or are retiring. See #188 above. I think the end result will be a lot like the VW scandal, it will put the company in a very unfavorable light.

The interesting thing to me is that the "coming clean" approach has so much resistance within Airbus. It seems many resisted Enders approach of getting the truth out. Most preferred to let sleeping dogs lie, presumably because they were reaping great benefits by winning deals with the aid of "middlemen". We read a lot of this also has to do with French paranoia about revealing sensitive data to the investigators that could end up being leaked to those evil Americans. Yet we read here that by game theory information symmetry arguments that all the insiders already have a very good idea of what each side offers to the customer and what it pays subcontractors and vendors.

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if one reason the EK deal fell apart at Dubai was that the Bullshit Castle had closed and the middlemen who used to grease the skids were no longer in place. Tim Clark did make some comment raising concerns about the changing of the guard at Airbus. Maybe some day we'll know the truth.
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Yes, the aviation market was incipient & in the end the US adapted jet technology better than the Europeans. BOAC & UK manufecturers also shot their models by concentrating on their needs instead of the world's, the same can be said of the Mercure, which eventually led to the A320 ( same circumference ). So yes, it is Europe's fault & they tried to do things smartly with the " fat cow" ( la grosse vache ), an expression used to compare the A300 to the Concorde when it rolled out.
As to the military, huh, if competing governments cannot sort it out, nor will we here, but it is a reality Airbus has to deal with against Boeing's accusations.

Revelation wrote:
And the "747 was first a military transporter" line is a great falsehood. Someone who could explain this is Joe Sutter, the chief engineer on the 747 Project:
The design of the 747 has always been surrounded by a big rumor, in that when Boeing lost the Air Force CX-HLS competition, that ultimately led to the Lockheed C-5, they took their design and converted it to the 747.

You may be right, but I would not bet my life on it : all serious publications I have read say otherwise, Joe Sutter was called into the 747 programme in 1965, two years after the USAF called for proposals & thus after Boeing lost to the Galaxy, to convert it into a civilian airframe. In any case, don't take it with me but with all the books & encyclopedias that take that "rumour" as a fact of aviation history.
While wiki sometimes takes skewed views, this is what they say, with due numbered references bottom page :
In 1963, the United States Air Force started a series of study projects on a very large strategic transport aircraft. Although the C-141 Starlifter was being introduced, they believed that a much larger and more capable aircraft was needed, especially the capability to carry outsized cargo that would not fit in any existing aircraft. These studies led to initial requirements for the CX-Heavy Logistics System (CX-HLS) in March 1964 for an aircraft with a load capacity of 180,000 pounds (81,600 kg) and a speed of Mach 0.75 (500 mph or 800 km/h), and an unrefueled range of 5,000 nautical miles (9,300 km) with a payload of 115,000 pounds (52,200 kg). The payload bay had to be 17 feet (5.18 m) wide by 13.5 feet (4.11 m) high and 100 feet (30 m) long with access through doors at the front and rear.[14]

Featuring only four engines, the design also required new engine designs with greatly increased power and better fuel economy. In May 1964, airframe proposals arrived from Boeing, Douglas, General Dynamics, Lockheed, and Martin Marietta; engine proposals were submitted by General Electric, Curtiss-Wright, and Pratt & Whitney. After a downselect, Boeing, Douglas, and Lockheed were given additional study contracts for the airframe, along with General Electric and Pratt & Whitney for the engines.[14]

All three of the airframe proposals shared a number of features. As the CX-HLS needed to be able to be loaded from the front, a door had to be included where the cockpit usually was. All of the companies solved this problem by moving the cockpit above the cargo area; Douglas had a small "pod" just forward and above the wing, Lockheed used a long "spine" running the length of the aircraft with the wing spar passing through it, while Boeing blended the two, with a longer pod that ran from just behind the nose to just behind the wing.[15][16] In 1965 Lockheed's aircraft design and General Electric's engine design were selected for the new C-5 Galaxy transport, which was the largest military aircraft in the world at the time.[14] The nose door and raised cockpit concepts would be carried over to the design of the 747.[17]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:04 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus. So either they weren't doing their jobs properly, were complicit in the paying of the bribes, or, chose too ignore what was going on, because, "hey, business is booming, we're getting all these great new sales and that is all that matters". Whichever of the former it is, there is no way that Airbus can move forward and maintain ANY of the current high ranking office holders. If the current Airbus Board of Directors does let any stay on, then the investigating authorities, would more than likely be asking additional questions.

Expect every senior manager to go in the next few years, if not out already. The fines will be enormous in a monetary value, but in real terms to Airbus, a minor blip on the balance sheet and most likely, only a fraction of the monetary amount the sales garnered through the bribes paid. If the "punishment" handed out too Airbus isn't seen as sufficient by the powers that be, then expect direct government action, by European and foreign, non aligned to Airbus governments, ie : U.S.A. Anywhere Airbus sales were made in recent history could be further investigated.

The best thing for Airbus to do, is to be seen to jump higher than what any investigation office wants them to do, be pro active in getting rid of any person remotely connected to the investigations and when the time comes, admit guilt, pay the fines and of course promise to do everything in their power to ensure such things don't happen again.


Good thinking, Jupiter2.

RR's fines were of £671 million, as described in the RR Press Release 16 Jan 2017 as "These agreements relate to bribery and corruption involving intermediaries in a number of overseas markets, concerns about which the company passed to the SFO from 2012 onwards. These are voluntary agreements which result in the suspension of a prosecution provided that the company fulfills certain requirements, including the payment of a financial penalty." (SFO is the UK Serious Fraud Office)

The way I read this and other stuff is that the big bad was the sale of a relatively few engines for industrial use in some of Brazil's offshore oil rigs. This seems to be resulting in some criminal prosecutions of agents. There were a very few other instances with the sale of aero engines, which apparently do not involve criminal prosecutions providing RR keeps its nose clean from now on. I may be wrong?

There had been a lot in the UK press going back many years on a particular RR aero engine sale. At that time I ascribed this as having being initiated by RR's press office. I assumed they were keen to get the message across to other potential customers, that bribes etc were absolutely forbidden under a new UK law.

But these RR bad things may turn out to be small beer when compared to the potential scale of the Airbus situation? My wild speculation is for many criminal prosecutions, and fines (with time to pay) of many billions in Euro, Dollars or whatever.

I remember from years ago a Continental Royal Family being involved in a corrupt deal with Lockheed, so perhaps there are yet more revelations to come? Perhaps on both the military and civil sales? And perhaps on both sides of the pond? A Presidential pardon is something rarely invoked, but with 'America First' who knows?
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:46 pm

What survived from the military contract amounted to the cocktail napkin designs. A bigger 4 engine plane, and the cockpit above the main deck. Remember that Boeing thought the next big passenger plane would be supersonic, and the 748 would live out most of its life as a cargo carrier. And to give you an idea about how far projections could be from what happened, the first 737 was almost an afterthought, something temporary to fill a small short range niche. I don't think either Boeing nor Airbus had any idea that the 737/320 would dominate the aviation world.
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:42 am

Enders has been dangerously shifting the balance between France & Germany to the latter's interest

Quite the contrary in fact. Despite his nationality, Enders has made Airbus more French than ever. Never has so much power been concentrated in TLS, and around the CEO in particular.
the 4th A320 FAL in Hamburg

That was merely an appeasement tactic. The 4th FAL basically compensates for the A380 ramp-down and creates zero net new jobs at XFW. The original tacit agreement was that XFW was supposed to get ALL European FALs for the A320 successor, while TLS got the widebodies.
Furthermore, the Munich HQ has been closed, and XFW is being downgraded to a big manufacturing site only - with management & engineering jobs being gradually moved to TLS. German power within Airbus has never been so weak.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:34 am

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... ion-probes has an interview with Enders:

“The media hype had an influence on timing, but not on the decision itself,” he says. It is clear that aspect of the situation displeased him.

He is of course referring to his decision to not seek an extension beyond 2019. And that is PR spin that runs contrary to all the stuff we heard at the start of this thread, which suggested while he was willing to go, he really wanted to stay. Oh well, at least he wasn't show the door like Bregier was.

The article has a lot of info about Faury. It points out that he was head of Helicopters during the aftermath of the EC225/H225 crash, but also on his earlier stint with the company he was the chief engineer for the aircraft during its development.
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:08 am

r2rho wrote:
Enders has been dangerously shifting the balance between France & Germany to the latter's interest

Quite the contrary in fact. Despite his nationality, Enders has made Airbus more French than ever. Never has so much power been concentrated in TLS, and around the CEO in particular.
the 4th A320 FAL in Hamburg

That was merely an appeasement tactic. The 4th FAL basically compensates for the A380 ramp-down and creates zero net new jobs at XFW. The original tacit agreement was that XFW was supposed to get ALL European FALs for the A320 successor, while TLS got the widebodies.
Furthermore, the Munich HQ has been closed, and XFW is being downgraded to a big manufacturing site only - with management & engineering jobs being gradually moved to TLS. German power within Airbus has never been so weak.

I hear you.
But that is not how the French press sees it & for good reasons : I read both the French & German press, after all they have their educated sources deep within Airbus, I can tell you they sometimes say interesting things that do not get into the English press. There is more going on that is being discussed here. 8-)

Guillaume Faury may be France's Trump card, no one saw him coming that fast.

The French and German governments, which each hold 11.1% of Airbus, last week insisted at a joint press conference there would be no return to government board seats. However, French president Emmanuel Macron said it would remain “very vigilant” over the management change.

“The big challenge will be when the French government put forward their favoured candidate. This is going to test the board in a way they have not been tested for some considerable time.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/busi ... -6t6dt9qhl
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:19 pm

Why can't the French ever leave patriotism/tribalism out of things...? They have to make everything about us versus them. Despite being opposites in many ways, ironically I have observed they share a lot of the mentality of our friends across the pond.
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:43 am

Reuters: Kuwait orders investigation into Airbus helicopter deal tells us:

Kuwaiti state news agency KUNA quoted Minister of Cabinet Affairs Anas al-Saleh as saying that Prime Minister Sheikh Jaber Al-Mubarak Al-Hamad Al-Sabah had ordered the Caracal deal to be investigated.

“It has been decided to transfer the case of the Caracal helicopter deal to the National Anti-Corruption Commission to investigate it and to take all the measures regarding it,” Saleh said, according to KUNA.

Not telling us why, though.
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scotron11
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:16 am

Revelation wrote:
Reuters: Kuwait orders investigation into Airbus helicopter deal tells us:

Kuwaiti state news agency KUNA quoted Minister of Cabinet Affairs Anas al-Saleh as saying that Prime Minister Sheikh Jaber Al-Mubarak Al-Hamad Al-Sabah had ordered the Caracal deal to be investigated.

“It has been decided to transfer the case of the Caracal helicopter deal to the National Anti-Corruption Commission to investigate it and to take all the measures regarding it,” Saleh said, according to KUNA.

Not telling us why, though.


Seems to be par for the course in Kuwait.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/kuwait-a ... 37932.html
 
r2rho
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:38 pm

There is more going on that is being discussed here.

I know and I also read French & German press. But it's still too early to for what has been going on behind the scenes to become public, same as for the Siemens-Alstom deal. All this has been discussed behind close doors with the OK from Merkel & Macron and we are now just seeing it play out.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:44 am

Revelation wrote:
Personally, I'm starting to wonder if one reason the EK deal fell apart at Dubai was that the Bullshit Castle had closed and the middlemen who used to grease the skids were no longer in place. Tim Clark did make some comment raising concerns about the changing of the guard at Airbus. Maybe some day we'll know the truth.


And given that the EK group did order 175 737MAXs at the airshow, can also we assume that Boeing used those same middlemen to "grease the skids" ?
Most recent planes I've been in: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, B737-600 LN-RPA, B737-700 OY-JTY, B737-800 LN-NGA, B767-300 ZK-NCI, B777-300 ZK-OKN, B787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:11 pm

zkojq wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Personally, I'm starting to wonder if one reason the EK deal fell apart at Dubai was that the Bullshit Castle had closed and the middlemen who used to grease the skids were no longer in place. Tim Clark did make some comment raising concerns about the changing of the guard at Airbus. Maybe some day we'll know the truth.


And given that the EK group did order 175 737MAXs at the airshow, can also we assume that Boeing used those same middlemen to "grease the skids" ?


Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.
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jupiter2
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:31 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Personally, I'm starting to wonder if one reason the EK deal fell apart at Dubai was that the Bullshit Castle had closed and the middlemen who used to grease the skids were no longer in place. Tim Clark did make some comment raising concerns about the changing of the guard at Airbus. Maybe some day we'll know the truth.


And given that the EK group did order 175 737MAXs at the airshow, can also we assume that Boeing used those same middlemen to "grease the skids" ?


Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.


There is also the question of the large quantity of funds that were available to these middlemen and what those funds were actually used for. As Karel says, middlemen aren't illegal, but the way these middlemen had been doing business for Airbus wreaked of corruption, at least from what has been released so far. The current actions of Airbus management and the board, would appear to confirm that the dealings of the middlemen, were not all strictly above board and without reproach.

That doesn't mean that "all" the middlemen and their actions were corrupt either, no doubt some of these men will be proven to be innocent of any wrong doing, however, rightly or wrongly, they will be found guilty by association.
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:33 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.

And since the CEO is warning of "significant impact from corruption probes" one would think it probably is not the case that they simply forgot to do it.

We also read the issue arouse after Airbus did some internal auditing, so it would seem there are some questionable payments involved.
Last edited by Revelation on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scotron11
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.

And since the CEO is warning of "significant impact from corruption probes" one would think it probably is not the case that they simply forgot to do it.

We also read the issue arouse after Airbus did some internal auditing, so it would seem there are some questionable payments involved.


But also the use of tax havens to hide the beneficiaries of the monies


https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ian-expose

There is also the famous Saudi Typhoon sale which Tony Blair, then UK Prime Minister, invoked the Official Secrets Act over allegations of bribery by BAE systems!

It all stinks :scratchchin:
 
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zkojq
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:13 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Personally, I'm starting to wonder if one reason the EK deal fell apart at Dubai was that the Bullshit Castle had closed and the middlemen who used to grease the skids were no longer in place. Tim Clark did make some comment raising concerns about the changing of the guard at Airbus. Maybe some day we'll know the truth.


And given that the EK group did order 175 737MAXs at the airshow, can also we assume that Boeing used those same middlemen to "grease the skids" ?


Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.


I understand your point, but I don't see it as much better. Bribing someone and then reporting it still involves bribing them. :roll:
Most recent planes I've been in: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, B737-600 LN-RPA, B737-700 OY-JTY, B737-800 LN-NGA, B767-300 ZK-NCI, B777-300 ZK-OKN, B787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:18 pm

scotron11 wrote:
Revelation wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Of course Boeing uses middlemen too. That's not a problem as long as you report it. The issue here is that Airbus used middlemen without reporting it.

And since the CEO is warning of "significant impact from corruption probes" one would think it probably is not the case that they simply forgot to do it.

We also read the issue arouse after Airbus did some internal auditing, so it would seem there are some questionable payments involved.


But also the use of tax havens to hide the beneficiaries of the monies


https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ian-expose

There is also the famous Saudi Typhoon sale which Tony Blair, then UK Prime Minister, invoked the Official Secrets Act over allegations of bribery by BAE systems!

It all stinks :scratchchin:


BAE systems is unbelievably corrupt with their practices. As is the UK government for doing all they could to cover it up and to stop the UK's Serious Fraud Office from bringing about charges. I'm currently reading this book about the matter; it really is fascinating.
https://www.bookdepository.com/Shadow-W ... 1250013958


BAE Systems' intransigence on matters of corruption is one reason I've always been so happy about Airbus SAS splitting with BAE Systems a few years ago.
Most recent planes I've been in: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, B737-600 LN-RPA, B737-700 OY-JTY, B737-800 LN-NGA, B767-300 ZK-NCI, B777-300 ZK-OKN, B787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:48 am

Generally above the table sales commissions are not bribes, almost by definition.
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brindabella
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:42 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus. So either they weren't doing their jobs properly, were complicit in the paying of the bribes, or, chose too ignore what was going on, because, "hey, business is booming, we're getting all these great new sales and that is all that matters". Whichever of the former it is, there is no way that Airbus can move forward and maintain ANY of the current high ranking office holders. If the current Airbus Board of Directors does let any stay on, then the investigating authorities, would more than likely be asking additional questions.

Expect every senior manager to go in the next few years, if not out already. The fines will be enormous in a monetary value, but in real terms to Airbus, a minor blip on the balance sheet and most likely, only a fraction of the monetary amount the sales garnered through the bribes paid. If the "punishment" handed out too Airbus isn't seen as sufficient by the powers that be, then expect direct government action, by European and foreign, non aligned to Airbus governments, ie : U.S.A. Anywhere Airbus sales were made in recent history could be further investigated.

The best thing for Airbus to do, is to be seen to jump higher than what any investigation office wants them to do, be pro active in getting rid of any person remotely connected to the investigations and when the time comes, admit guilt, pay the fines and of course promise to do everything in their power to ensure such things don't happen again.


Mmmm, first one should point out that your post assumes that the worst of these negative press reports are correct or, more, importantly, able to be proved.

Moving on, I am speculating about a difficult calculation that Airbus might have to make. (Unguessable, really).

Obviously they seem to foresee they may have to proffer "big time" in terms of cash to head-off a more dire verdict from a nasty bout in Court, not to mention a verdict and penalties specifically involving Airbus as a Commercial, operating entity, representing Germany & France & selling worldwide ...

Equally, A naturally wants to pay-out as little as possible.


But too little freely offered may risk:

1) facing Court in one or more Jurisdictions
2) having US DOJ (or similar) also join the pursuing pack and come after them :mad: (truly scary!!)
3 having B tie them up in Court forever more about commercial damages inflicted by A's bribery/corruption shenanigans.


Would make this bear's head hurt (to paraphrase Winnie the Pooh),

cheers
Billy
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:45 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus.


Fabrice Brégier, the man I was talking about, had barely joined Eurocopters when those fighter jets were sold to Austria in 2003. He could not have been involved. Many people involved with that deal are not around anymore.
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jupiter2
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:13 am

KarelXWB wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
I'm quite amazed at some of the posters here who are under estimating just what this bribery payments issue will mean to Airbus and in particular, any current high ranking post holder. To think that senior management had absolutely no idea of what was going, is really naive. It would have to mean that said manager, really wasn't doing his/her job properly, that they had no true knowledge of the inner workings of their sales departments and how the contracts in question were won by Airbus.


Fabrice Brégier, the man I was talking about, had barely joined Eurocopters when those fighter jets were sold to Austria in 2003. He could not have been involved. Many people involved with that deal are not around anymore.


There is more to this than a dodgy deal of a few fighters to Austria.
 
astuteman
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Re: BREAKING: Fabrice Bregier to step down From Airbus Management (Reuters)

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:48 am

zkojq wrote:
BAE systems is unbelievably corrupt with their practices. As is the UK government for doing all they could to cover it up and to stop the UK's Serious Fraud Office from bringing about charges. I'm currently reading this book about the matter; it really is fascinating.
https://www.bookdepository.com/Shadow-W ... 1250013958


BAE Systems' intransigence on matters of corruption is one reason I've always been so happy about Airbus SAS splitting with BAE Systems a few years ago.


Talk about not having a clue.
You are utterly wrong with this (IMO) libelous allegation

The Saudi Deal scandal has completely transformed the way BAE Systems approaches Business conduct and ethics.
The business now practices a stringent code of conduct to an almost paranoid extent, that it is mandatory for every single employee to sign up to, and is re-briefed every year.
And it is mandatory particularly given BAE Systems Inc. relationship with the US DOD nowadays
Good luck getting anything shady through the company today.

They are clearly streets ahead of Airbus in this respect, and I am frankly astonished that Airbus is so far behind BAE Systems in its governance of business conduct. Airbus is only now commencing the business conduct journey that BAE Systems has travelled for the last 9 years.

Please could I ask you to refrain from making such inappropriate declarations when you clearly have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever on which to base them.

Rgds
 
astuteman
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:54 am

DWC wrote:
Last, being more royalist than the King is idiotic, "jumping higher than the investigation" can be neck breaking, actually that is what has happened. What mattered here is pragmatism & as the article concludes, the Board is scared & irresponsible, not up to its task, specially that many crucial long-timers are retiring next year or in 2019.


Sorry, but in my experience you are wrong.
The focus here should not be on the size of the fines, but the reputational risk to Airbus that could be catastrophic if not handled correctly.

Airbus absolutely need to "jump higher than the investigation" approach in order to restore trust in the business.

I've been through this journey and come out the other side already, and watched the dawning realisation in the business of just how hard it needs to crack down on this matter.

Rgds
 
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DWC
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:33 pm

I agree with you in principle, I just dont agree that Enders should have stayed when the investigation probes are the result of his own lack of supervision, all while flushing down Brégier who did much of the work this past years in tandem with Leahy.
Enders should have resigned - period.
 
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:41 pm

Here's one that I didn't see coming, probably because the events happened in 1992:

Airbus ordered to pay 104 million euros to settle Taiwan missile dispute

The arbitration fine comes three months after Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA), radar supplier Thales (TCFP.PA) and engine maker Safran (SAF.PA) said they had been fined a combined 227 million euros ($276.80 million) in Taiwan to settle the 25-year-old dispute over the wrongful use of commissions in the sale of 60 Mirage fighters to the island.

Also says:

“This was a commercial dispute and not a corruption allegation,” said an Airbus spokesman.

Not sure what that means. Article suggests a wrongful use of commissions and this being a part of Mitterand-era corruption, and Airbus saying no, just a commercial issue, but if so, why are they subject to fines?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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trex8
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Re: Airbus CEO warns of significant impact from corruption probes

Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:30 pm

Revelation wrote:
Here's one that I didn't see coming, probably because the events happened in 1992:

Airbus ordered to pay 104 million euros to settle Taiwan missile dispute

The arbitration fine comes three months after Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA), radar supplier Thales (TCFP.PA) and engine maker Safran (SAF.PA) said they had been fined a combined 227 million euros ($276.80 million) in Taiwan to settle the 25-year-old dispute over the wrongful use of commissions in the sale of 60 Mirage fighters to the island.

Also says:

“This was a commercial dispute and not a corruption allegation,” said an Airbus spokesman.

Not sure what that means. Article suggests a wrongful use of commissions and this being a part of Mitterand-era corruption, and Airbus saying no, just a commercial issue, but if so, why are they subject to fines?

Beats the 600 million +Euros Thales had to pay for the Lafayette missile frigates "commissions", a lot of which was almost certainly paid to very high level mainland Chinese officials to kick up less of a political fuss over the sale besides French and Taiwan officials being greased to let it happen (the expected winner of the RFP was a Korean design which was more suited for the requirement).
https://www.upi.com/Thales-pays-up-in-T ... 310764247/
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