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KanaHawaii
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:07 pm

One factor that I think is not addressed yet is the idea that SWA wants to investigate having some sort of inter island service. I agree with what XAM2175 said about rotating the planes through Hawaii and run them back to the mainland a-la Texas service in order for the airline to use the -800/MAX planes on such a short run. So operationally, this can happen. What I find fascinating is the enthusiasm that everyone here in Hawaii has of SWA actually thinking about inter island operations. Back in the past, when a mainland company came in and sniffed around about doing inter island service (United 1991, TurnWorks <through merging Hawaiian and Aloha> 2001) the politicians in this town circled the wagons and kyboshed the idea before it even got off the ground.

Now you have the Governor standing next to SWA bigwigs encouraging this game changing event. Needless to say, this change in mentality in which Hawaii has traditionally been a protective market and dissuading mainland competition either through political pressure or outright campaigning by people against the introduction, is very telling as to how Hawaii is changing on many levels, and not just Hawaii-mainland service.
 
ADrum23
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:08 pm

What are the chances WN launches Hawaiian service from cities such as DEN and DAL when they get the 737 MAX 7 in 2019?
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 310
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:22 pm

SteveXC500 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.



The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.
Last edited by allegiantflyer on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:25 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
One factor that I think is not addressed yet is the idea that SWA wants to investigate having some sort of inter island service. I agree with what XAM2175 said about rotating the planes through Hawaii and run them back to the mainland a-la Texas service in order for the airline to use the -800/MAX planes on such a short run. So operationally, this can happen. What I find fascinating is the enthusiasm that everyone here in Hawaii has of SWA actually thinking about inter island operations. Back in the past, when a mainland company came in and sniffed around about doing inter island service (United 1991, TurnWorks <through merging Hawaiian and Aloha> 2001) the politicians in this town circled the wagons and kyboshed the idea before it even got off the ground.

Now you have the Governor standing next to SWA bigwigs encouraging this game changing event. Needless to say, this change in mentality in which Hawaii has traditionally been a protective market and dissuading mainland competition either through political pressure or outright campaigning by people against the introduction, is very telling as to how Hawaii is changing on many levels, and not just Hawaii-mainland service.


Back then you had two "local" airlines competing with each other. Now HA dominates the market. I'm sure locals would now welcome the competition from what is generally perceived as a top notch (especially when it comes to short haul) airline. Back then it was out of towners coming in to put the local guys out of business. Now it's all about some healthy competition.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:33 pm

The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.


Or, just bring a portable power bank like many people does.

On the other hand, the like of LAX-BWI and OAK-BWI is just almost as long as LAX-HNL and OAK-HNL. So it's not like WN isn't already operating similar length flights.

What are the chances WN launches Hawaiian service from cities such as DEN and DAL when they get the 737 MAX 7 in 2019?


Can 737MAX7 even have the range to do, let say, HNL-DAL? Without load penalty, that is (It's within the advertised maximum range of MAX7, but we all know in real-world operation you can never fly that long).
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:34 pm

As mentioned, bring a power pack. If you know these things in advance, it should never be an issue.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:35 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.



The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.

A fully charged iPhone in airplane mode should last a lot longer than 3 hours.
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 310
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:40 pm

32andBelow wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:

Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.



The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.

A fully charged iPhone in airplane mode should last a lot longer than 3 hours.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in order to use WN TV on your device you have to take your device off of airplane mode.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:47 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:


The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.

A fully charged iPhone in airplane mode should last a lot longer than 3 hours.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in order to use WN TV on your device you have to take your device off of airplane mode.


You can have wifi on in airplane mode
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:52 pm

How many people are cognizant enough to ensure they have a fully charged device prior to a long flight? I'm sure many on a.net are, but I bet much of the travelling public is not - either through ignorance or forgetfulness - or maybe they didn't have the opportunity.

Put in the chargers.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:57 pm

evank516 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
evank516 wrote:

B6 will most likely beat WN to TATL. However WN already beat B6 to Hawaii.

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.


Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?



^^^^^^^
This. So true. A 737 is an Uncomfortable aircraft regardless of what carrier flys it for more than a couple of hours.
 
kiowa
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:58 pm

evank516 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
evank516 wrote:

B6 will most likely beat WN to TATL. However WN already beat B6 to Hawaii.

Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.


Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?



^^^^^^^
This. So true. A 737 is an Uncomfortable aircraft regardless of what carrier flys it for more than a couple of hours.
 
evank516
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:59 pm

barney captain wrote:
How many people are cognizant enough to ensure they have a fully charged device prior to a long flight? I'm sure many on a.net are, but I bet much of the travelling public is not - either through ignorance or forgetfulness - or maybe they didn't have the opportunity.

Put in the chargers.


Or fly another airline that has them.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:08 pm

kiowa wrote:
evank516 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:

Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.


Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?



^^^^^^^
This. So true. A 737 is an Uncomfortable aircraft regardless of what carrier flys it for more than a couple of hours.

Cus AS/DL/UA have no much trouble flying the 737 on this route. LMAO
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:


The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.

A fully charged iPhone in airplane mode should last a lot longer than 3 hours.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in order to use WN TV on your device you have to take your device off of airplane mode.


I'll go ahead and correct you. It must be in airplane mode, per FAA rules, but WiFi will still work. What won't work in airplane mode is cellular data transmissions.
 
TUSDawg23
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:44 pm

A couple of questions:

1. Will WN be using a fleet of dedicated aircraft to serve these routes or will they be rotating them with the rest of their ETOPS equipped fleet?
2. I know WN doesn't want to add power ports in its aircraft, but I think if they have a dedicated fleet of aircraft doing Hawaii flights, they should install the power ports in just those aircraft. I'm fine with BYOD, but they really need to consider adding these for flights of this length.
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:45 pm

barney captain wrote:
How many people are cognizant enough to ensure they have a fully charged device prior to a long flight? I'm sure many on a.net are, but I bet much of the travelling public is not - either through ignorance or forgetfulness - or maybe they didn't have the opportunity.

Put in the chargers.


You guys are speaking like if you fly WN you will be on the only plane without power. Not the case. Most people if they are that concerned about it, are cognizant of it. Most of these flights will be 5-6 hours. Laptops, tablets, phones all will get you into that range. And for $5-10 you can have a power bank that fits in the pocket. But regardless, is the implication that the same passenger that isn't "cognizant"enough to charge their battery before a flight, is "cognizant" enough to choose their flight based off the availability over in-seat power? That is ridiculous.
 
zchannel
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Hawaii is about as "Southwest" as you can get!
ZChannel: Member FDIC
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:55 pm

The passengers that will fly Southwest to Hawaii will be the same customers that currently fly them everywhere else! Southwest has been a low cost no frills maverick since the 70's.
it's not like someone going to get on a Southwest flight to Hawaii and suddenly feel like WTF no power ports and no food why I never!
Yes Southwest will pull some new customers in with fare sales once service starts. But like they have 40+ years will win them over with the level of service they provide not only at the airport but once on board!
As for short haul service given between the Islands.
WN has been do same levels of service since day one!
I don't think you will see them eliminated service just for inter Island flights.
Like most Southwest flights Weather and time permitting WN flight attendants always give it 110% to give that POS!

Let's be honest unless your upgraded to business or first class on the other airlines it's always a uncomfortable flight after 2+ hours on any coach product.

Lastly ONCE Southwest starts Hawaii it's going to probably start out with OAK and LAX to HNL, OGG and KOA.
Then add SJC,SMF,SAN and LIH.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Chemist
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
SteveXC500 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Devil's advocate a bit, but what value is free alcohol? It's $5-$8 a drink. I've gotten Delta Comfort + and I can't drink my way to that price point without killing myself. Same with food, I suppose.

IFE on WN is obviously BYOD. Is that too much to ask of passengers?

I know this is mainly a matter of passenger opinion and/or preference. I guess I just don't see the NEED for any of those options. Get me to my destination comfortably, most importantly - SAFE, and on time, at a value I am willing to pay.



The biggest problem WN is going to face with their BYOD strategy in these long markets is what happens after someones iPhone dies after 3 hours with no power outlet. I would consider that a bit annoying Imo, but of course they can bring a device with more battery longevity such as a MacBook as long as they remember to charge the night before, that would allow them to even use it for a connecting flight thats a couple hours long.


With the money you save on your non-bag fee, you can buy a $20 spare battery for charging. And keep it after the flight, too!
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:21 pm

jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Beverage service included in the price. A generous glass of OK wine for the price. Pleasant FAs. More pitch for the price. A better chance of a window or aisle seat for Y fare.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
DaveFly
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:32 pm

Southwest? Thanks, I’ll pass. I’ve enjoyed my four roundtrips from JFK-HNL, along with many interislands. I like the IFE, the food, the cabin crews, the 330, and the ambiance.

As for interisland, I thought the 717 was one of the very few jets that could do quick turnarounds. How does SW plan to use the 737?

I’ll stick with HA.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
32andBelow
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:43 pm

DaveFly wrote:
Southwest? Thanks, I’ll pass. I’ve enjoyed my four roundtrips from JFK-HNL, along with many interislands. I like the IFE, the food, the cabin crews, the 330, and the ambiance.

As for interisland, I thought the 717 was one of the very few jets that could do quick turnarounds. How does SW plan to use the 737?

I’ll stick with HA.

Congrats. I don't think JFK is the target market for this. You are comparing a 10 hour flight to a 5 hour flight.
 
DaveFly
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:45 pm

32andBelow wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
Southwest? Thanks, I’ll pass. I’ve enjoyed my four roundtrips from JFK-HNL, along with many interislands. I like the IFE, the food, the cabin crews, the 330, and the ambiance.

As for interisland, I thought the 717 was one of the very few jets that could do quick turnarounds. How does SW plan to use the 737?

I’ll stick with HA.

Congrats. I don't think JFK is the target market for this. You are comparing a 10 hour flight to a 5 hour flight.


I may be wrong, but I think HA’s service is pretty uniform throughout their network. I would expect the same fine service on a 5-hr flight as I would from JFK. Southwest just doesn’t have that level of service. And HA’s fares (except interisland) are very reasonable.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
User avatar
KanaHawaii
Posts: 96
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:49 pm

kiowa wrote:
evank516 wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:

Another than IFE what makes DL different from Southwest in terms of things to do? On a 5 to 6 hour flight you can bring your own entertainment, sleep, read a good book/novel, talk to your seatmate and/or even stare out the window. It seems nowadays people want to be constantly entertained.


Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?



^^^^^^^
This. So true. A 737 is an Uncomfortable aircraft regardless of what carrier flys it for more than a couple of hours.


So Kelly was quoted in ATW today stating that the service model Southwest currently has would not change with Hawaii being added on. And I can see why he'd say this. Southwest at times does fly 5+ hour flights. For instance I have been on one of their -700's from Nashville TN to Oakland CA. The flight was a little over 5 hours - which would be in line with what a LAX/SFO/OAK to Hawaii run would be.

So Southwest has some experience in running these long flights. As it was then, the service was nothing different than it was on any shorter SWA flight. You still go the drinks and the peanuts or pretzels or whatever they serve. And that was that.

As for charging of equipment on the transpac flights, only recently did pretty much all the airlines that serve Hawaii have equipment on board to charge phones. I remember back in the day when AA ran their 767's to Dallas and the only charging port was a DC charger that was the shape of a cigarette lighter. Pretty much no one charged their phones on those flights and, well, it was all okay. I don't see any need to change that up on SWA considering that the phone needs to go into airplane mode, anyway.
 
Chemist
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:52 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
evank516 wrote:
[
Regardless, if I'm going to Hawaii, I'm flying DL. There's no way I can manage to sit on a 737MAX with nothing to do for the length of that flight.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Other than 1 bag that flies free, does WN offer any onboard amenities for free? Alcohol, food, in-seat IFE?


Beverage service included in the price. A generous glass of OK wine for the price. Pleasant FAs. More pitch for the price. A better chance of a window or aisle seat for Y fare.


No crushing herds at the gate during boarding.
 
Frenchify
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Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:19 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Once this service launches, I'd love to see the number of passengers buying Early Bird boarding with their ticket.
 
ADrum23
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:20 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Can 737MAX7 even have the range to do, let say, HNL-DAL? Without load penalty, that is (It's within the advertised maximum range of MAX7, but we all know in real-world operation you can never fly that long).


Well, UA seems to be fine with running the 789 on IAH-SYD and that is very close to the limit of the 789 range, so I don't see why WN couldn't do DEN-HNL and DAL-HNL on the MAX 7. It would be a stretch, but it could be done.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:45 am

They had damn well better install plugs between the seats if they're serious about these Hawaii flights. Hell, they should've installed them in the first place when they announced in-flight wifi!
 
TripleA
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:49 am

Reading through these comments I have to wonder how some of you stood flying back in the early 2000s or earlier. IFE is nice but good grief people it's not the end of the world if you can't have it for several hours. It's amazing to me how much we've come to rely on technology for entertainment. And besides, they have WiFi. Just bring your phone and laptop/tablet fully charged and you'll be fine.
 
ADrum23
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Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:13 am

TripleA wrote:
Reading through these comments I have to wonder how some of you stood flying back in the early 2000s or earlier. IFE is nice but good grief people it's not the end of the world if you can't have it for several hours. It's amazing to me how much we've come to rely on technology for entertainment. And besides, they have WiFi. Just bring your phone and laptop/tablet fully charged and you'll be fine.


This ^^^^^

While I’d love in seat chargers on WN planes and do think they dropped the ball on this with their MAX planes, it’s not the end of the world. Everyone should carry a mobile power pack anyway if they are traveling long distance.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 276
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:38 am

Well, UA seems to be fine with running the 789 on IAH-SYD and that is very close to the limit of the 789 range, so I don't see why WN couldn't do DEN-HNL and DAL-HNL on the MAX 7. It would be a stretch, but it could be done.


WN's 737 will be higher density, though, which means for full range it's highly likely that they have to reduced weight somewhere (blocking seats?). DEN-HNL is doable for most part, but I'm seriously doubtful about DAL-HNL.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:03 am

XAM2175 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Aloha says aloha. And CFM will be loving all the new spare engine purchases.


The main problem with the CFM56 and other high-bypass turbofans on inter-island work is the number of incomplete thermal cycles the engine is put through if it's used for high-frequency inter-island work only - so short turn after short turn after short turn and so on. Flying from West Coast to HNL, doing an out-and-back inter-island, and then back to the mainland won't be any problem at all, similar to the way WN rotate NGs into and out of intra-Texas work.

True on the intra-Texas network, but as HA and the former AQ would show, frequency is what is truly king on inter-island because HA is effectively their regional transit system. Even UA, Hawaii's virtual de facto flag carrier behind HA, gave up on their inter-island flights.

As a sidebar, would the older CFM 56s on the 737-300 better handle the quick turns than the newer ones on the 737-NG?
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:17 am

WN might find it cheaper to rent out battery packs rather than do the wiring.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 4848
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Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:50 am

32andBelow wrote:
kiowa wrote:
evank516 wrote:

Well, I can upgrade to first class, fly on a bigger plane, have an assigned seat. Avoid multiple stops traveling to Hawaii from the east coast?



^^^^^^^
This. So true. A 737 is an Uncomfortable aircraft regardless of what carrier flys it for more than a couple of hours.

Cus AS/DL/UA have no much trouble flying the 737 on this route. LMAO


Agreed, I've been flying to/from Hawaii since the late 1970's & I can remember flying 707's & DC-8's with one aisle, no movie, no devices & dressed up, yet we lived through it. Granted the service was far superior, but we had books, cards & conversation when we were not enjoying a meal.

I love flying HA, I have been enjoying HA for 4 decades (my first flight on HA was my only SD-330 flight), they will remain the superior product to Hawaii, IMHO. If you are in Y, there is no longer a difference out of your network carriers, yes we all have our favorites but HA & their A-330 is a nice product in each cabin, it's hard to beat. I think the A321 will be more in line with other carriers that fly to/from the west coast except with that awesome HA service

But my miles keep me flying AS & we've been doing it almost as long as AS has been flying there. But they are all about the same, I like the crews & vibe on AS, they offer a comfortable product up front & I can survive a Y experience as long as it's only a non-stop. I'm not a big DL, UA or AA fan & the fact I can fly non-stop from my hometown to 4 islands keep me on AS. The 737 is fine for Hawaii, I love the long take offs on the 739 out of HNL & KOA.

WN isn't going to lower the markets fares, except maybe at the onset with promo fares. There isn't going to be a huge margin for them to enjoy, their costs will be high at the onset as WN learns to negotiate the Hawaiian way.

As for WN operating inter island flights, I'd be real surprised, the 737's of today are NOT good for Inter Island hops as AQ found out with their 734 & 733 aircraft many years ago. If WN brings some 737-200's out of the desert, then they could bleed money flying inter island trying to compete on price against HA.

A valuable frame like an ETOPS 800 or Max 8 is not going to be making money sitting around waiting for the engines to cool down enough for a 25 minute hop, instead I expect WN to not operate round robin or circle routes to the islands, but instead non-stop hops to California, especially since they don't plan on operating red-eye returns, so morning departures off the west coast & mid day returns, which is peak time for all Hawaii airports & I question how many open gates at LIH, OGG, HNL & KOA there are at that time.

I lived in Hawaii in the travel industry during the time UA was looking to bring some 737-200's to Hawaii for Inter Island service, it wasn't pretty. It's a whole type of business environment in Hawaii, the further up the governmental pole, the crustier it gets, if you, for whatever reason have favor with the powers that be, you will get what you want (I saw it first hand), if you do not have favor, try all you want, island time can grind to a halt very fast.
707, 717, 720, 727-1/2, 737-1/2/3/4/5/7/8/9, 747-1/2/3/4, 757, 767-2/3/4, 777, DC-8-5/6/7, DC-9-1/3/5, MD-80/2/3/7/8, DC-10-10/30/40, MD-11, F-27, F-28, SWM, J31, D38, DH7, DH8, DH4 SD-330, B-146, L-1011-2/500, ATR-42/72, VCV, A-300/310/318/319/320, CR2/7
 
wjcandee
Posts: 6325
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:14 am

What I found interesting is Southwest's claim that fares to Hawaii are higher than flights of similar distances. And that they will generate business by offering lower fares than the unreasonably-high fares to Hawaii that are presently received by the existing carriers.

That seemed strange, since the Law of A.net says that Hawaii is a cesspool of crappy fares that nobody can make money from. And that that's what sank Allegiant's foray into that market.

Also odd was the suggestion that the Max8 is what makes trips there possible. Hard to understand, since Aloha and others were flying there with the -800 a long time ago.

Maybe it's all just Southwest marketing BS.
 
WN732
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:49 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:06 am

TWA772LR wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Aloha says aloha. And CFM will be loving all the new spare engine purchases.


The main problem with the CFM56 and other high-bypass turbofans on inter-island work is the number of incomplete thermal cycles the engine is put through if it's used for high-frequency inter-island work only - so short turn after short turn after short turn and so on. Flying from West Coast to HNL, doing an out-and-back inter-island, and then back to the mainland won't be any problem at all, similar to the way WN rotate NGs into and out of intra-Texas work.

True on the intra-Texas network, but as HA and the former AQ would show, frequency is what is truly king on inter-island because HA is effectively their regional transit system. Even UA, Hawaii's virtual de facto flag carrier behind HA, gave up on their inter-island flights.

As a sidebar, would the older CFM 56s on the 737-300 better handle the quick turns than the newer ones on the 737-NG?


Aloha had an extremely short stint with the 737-300's because the engine cores could not handle low altitude/ multiple short sectors and quick turns at the same time. Plus, the 737 loves high altitude cruising in super duper cold air. With WN, I would imagine that they would probably route the aircraft such as: OAK-HNL-LIH-LAX or SAN-OGG-HNL-OAK, etc. They would have a mainland to/from Hawaii flight + an Inter-Island hop. Otherwise if you throw them on more inter-island flights, they will really have a harder time with maintenance.
 
jplatts
Posts: 720
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:26 am

WN732 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
XAM2175 wrote:

The main problem with the CFM56 and other high-bypass turbofans on inter-island work is the number of incomplete thermal cycles the engine is put through if it's used for high-frequency inter-island work only - so short turn after short turn after short turn and so on. Flying from West Coast to HNL, doing an out-and-back inter-island, and then back to the mainland won't be any problem at all, similar to the way WN rotate NGs into and out of intra-Texas work.

True on the intra-Texas network, but as HA and the former AQ would show, frequency is what is truly king on inter-island because HA is effectively their regional transit system. Even UA, Hawaii's virtual de facto flag carrier behind HA, gave up on their inter-island flights.

As a sidebar, would the older CFM 56s on the 737-300 better handle the quick turns than the newer ones on the 737-NG?


Aloha had an extremely short stint with the 737-300's because the engine cores could not handle low altitude/ multiple short sectors and quick turns at the same time. Plus, the 737 loves high altitude cruising in super duper cold air. With WN, I would imagine that they would probably route the aircraft such as: OAK-HNL-LIH-LAX or SAN-OGG-HNL-OAK, etc. They would have a mainland to/from Hawaii flight + an Inter-Island hop. Otherwise if you throw them on more inter-island flights, they will really have a harder time with maintenance.


Southwest actually does have a few nonstop routes in the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than the HNL-KOA nonstop route, including MDW-GRR, HOU-AUS, ATL-GSP, and BWI-ORF. Southwest also operates MDW-IND nonstop service, which is approximately the same distance as the HNL-KOA nonstop route.

ITO is far enough from HNL for Southwest to serve ITO nonstop from HNL since ITO is 215 miles east of HNL and since Southwest does have some routes in the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than the HNL-ITO nonstop route (including DAL-OKC, DAL-AUS, HOU-SAT, HOU-CRP, LAS-ONT, FLL-MCO, FLL-TPA, and BWI-PIT in addition to the MDW-GRR, HOU-AUS, ATL-GSP, and BWI-ORF nonstop routes).

LIH is far enough from OGG, KOA, and ITO for Southwest to fly to OGG, KOA, and ITO nonstop from LIH, and Southwest has many routes in the contiguous U.S. that are shorter than the LIH-ITO nonstop route.

LIH is only 100 miles northwest of HNL and OGG is only 101 miles east of HNL. Southwest does not currently operate any nonstop service on routes that are shorter than 135 miles (the distance of the MDW-GRR nonstop route). Are LIH and OGG too close to HNL for Southwest to serve LIH and OGG nonstop from HNL, or is the interisland Hawaii market very different from that of the contiguous U.S. for Southwest to add nonstop service to LIH and OGG nonstop from HNL?
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1722
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:42 am

I heard that there's an ETOPS rule stating that engines must have 90 minutes to cool down after an ETOPS flight. Is this true? If so, would that affect an interisland tag (OAK-HNL-KOA-OAK)?
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
tphuang
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:55 pm

wjcandee wrote:
What I found interesting is Southwest's claim that fares to Hawaii are higher than flights of similar distances. And that they will generate business by offering lower fares than the unreasonably-high fares to Hawaii that are presently received by the existing carriers.

That seemed strange, since the Law of A.net says that Hawaii is a cesspool of crappy fares that nobody can make money from. And that that's what sank Allegiant's foray into that market.

Also odd was the suggestion that the Max8 is what makes trips there possible. Hard to understand, since Aloha and others were flying there with the -800 a long time ago.

Maybe it's all just Southwest marketing BS.

Airfares to Hawaii is pretty high. The fact that ha and as with their huge operation from west coast to Hawaii consistently generate such high margin should be proof that Hawaii fares are too high.

You can find sub $200 rt fares on comparably long flights from fll to lax. I have never seen sub 300 rt fares from lax to hnl.
 
fmi1
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Would the new planes have the range to reach SLC and DEN from the islands?
 
crazytoaster
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:06 pm

fmi1 wrote:
Would the new planes have the range to reach SLC and DEN from the islands?


I don't think the Max 8 would make it either with headwinds, higher elevations, or with summer heat. Max 7 has more range but won't be coming until later that may make it to SLC and DEN.
IND homebase, soon to be DEN
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:43 pm

Mentioned earlier was assumption of AM dep from coast and mid day dep from HI. W/O red eyes, I would lv HI 0800 arr on coast for connections further east made easier. Then lv coast at 600p arr HI late 8-930p. Makes connections from interior US better.Don't know if it'd be good or not, but offer more markets than the 'usual' schedules out there lol.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
flydulles
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:07 pm

do you all expect more info to be released in this next southwest schedule release due nov. 2?
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:16 pm

flydulles wrote:
do you all expect more info to be released in this next southwest schedule release due nov. 2?


No I wouldn't expect anything for another 2 schedule releases.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
flydulles
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:39 pm

can't wait to see how many gates they ask for in there gate request i am going with a guess of 4-5....... we expect all the cities to be from CA right?
 
National757
Posts: 477
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:07 pm

flydulles wrote:
can't wait to see how many gates they ask for in there gate request i am going with a guess of 4-5....... we expect all the cities to be from CA right?


Las Vegas has to be on the short list of cities, too. Lots of demand between the islands and Vegas and it will be great for locals to have another option to visit family out over in the ninth island. Hope to see HNL-LAS among the first WN Hawaii routes.

I feel like WN can start interisland flights between Oahu and Maui HNL-OGG 3X daily with a dedicated aircraft based in Hawaii and scheduling enough down time between flights to cool the engines as required. WN will gain experience in the interisland market plus build goodwill and introduce locals who have yet to experience Southwest service and hospitality to the brand.

No matter what routes are announced, more competition is good for consumers. Thank you Southwest!
 
ADrum23
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:32 pm

crazytoaster wrote:
fmi1 wrote:
Would the new planes have the range to reach SLC and DEN from the islands?


I don't think the Max 8 would make it either with headwinds, higher elevations, or with summer heat. Max 7 has more range but won't be coming until later that may make it to SLC and DEN.


The MAX 8 could in theory do DEN-HNL depending on weight, but it would be done better with the MAX 7.

IMO, DEN is the only city east of the Rockies I could see realistically getting WN Hawaiian flights. DAL would be pushing the MAX 7 to the limit and SLC has too much competition with DL.
 
flydulles
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:41 pm

I would think We should expect A lot of red eyes in the routes my guess
 
flydulles
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:59 pm

Re: Southwest Finally Announces Intentions to Serve Hawaii

Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:44 pm

I expect wheels up 1st flight around fall to Christmas 2018.... thoughts

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