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MillwallSean
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:51 am

A lot of discussion about finding MH370. Id like to expand on the reason for why I believe that the search has been resumed.

My guess is that since 2018 is election year in MY, the basis for the resumption is political. With Ramadan coming in May to June, the election more or less needs to be held before May.
There is thus alot of incentive for the Malaysian government to be seen doing something about MH370.
I thus dont think that new leads have much to do with the restart of the search but rather politics. Having a search ongoing takes the issue off the political agenda. It reduces the potential for the opposition to question, what is a sore point in Malaysia. Not that the opposition will win anyway, the steam has run out of them but there is no need to have MH370 in any news unless its positive such.

On a similar note, to the currency traders, the RM has started to appreciate. The economic fundamentals for that rise is hard to understand, so my humble guess is that the RM will continue appreciating until election-day.

Cynical perhaps, but with that said, I truly hope they will locate the plane. It would do wonders for the relatives and close a national wound.
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CARST
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:12 am

qf789 wrote:


This is great news, good to hear.

qf789 wrote:
Absolutely, if they are offering a "no find, no fee" deal they must be pretty confident of fin


They must have some real breakthrough-technology. Or it's a small company that's risking their future in the hope to get lucky.

Kiwirob wrote:
Well considering the US navy's all singing and dancing P8 couldn't find the Argentine sub, finding MH370 when nobody has a clue where it went down is going to be next to impossible. It's a massive waste of money looking for this aircraft.


It's no waste of money. If we can find he plane, that would give peace to so many people. If we could find out what happened, it could us prevent from it happening again.

Regarding the P-8, remember that this thing is designed to discover foreign submarines and ships. Submersed subs only go down to 1000, 2000 feet and that would be already rare. Also they have engines and systems running. You are comparing this real-life scenario which the P-8 is build for to an probably exploded submarine, that has sunken to the floor of an Ocean at a place where the Ocean is a few miles deep.

And that's how it is with MH370. Just imagine that there are massive ship wrecks from World War 2 and later that have not been found. If you put enough effort into it, you will find it (like Bellard found the Titanic), but if you don't search, you will never find it. But the Ttitanic would not have been found by a P-8, too. This is a search for specialised ships and deep-diving robots/mini-subs.
 
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Balerit
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:43 am

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
synanthropic wrote:
I do believe one day we will be able to find the remains of this flight. We will not ever be able to piece together why it happened, of course, but perhaps we will be able to understand what happened.


Just curious - if we can find out what happened, why the certainty that we'll never know why? Or are you already "certain" that the pilot did it?


Well the best example is SA295, The Helderberg. It was the deepest salvage operation ever undertaken and to this day we still don't know the cause. Look at TWA 800, I don't think they came to the correct conclusion to that either.
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WIederling
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:07 am

Balerit wrote:
Well the best example is SA295, The Helderberg. It was the deepest salvage operation ever undertaken and to this day we still don't know the cause. Look at TWA 800, I don't think they came to the correct conclusion to that either.


The Helderberg investigation was not without effect. ( and the way the crash site was determined rather interesting.)
It caused reevaluation of Combi layouts.

TWA800: what would be your assessmet?
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awthompson
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:50 am

Arion640 wrote:
Hmmmm my personal opinion is that It cannot be found. It disintergrated on impact similar to how there was little left from the germanwings crash.


I don't mean to be argumentative with you but MH370 did not completely disintegrate as did the Germanwings A320. Already a flaperon from MH370 was found washed up largely intact as well as a number of other pieces. The flaperon is a relatively large control surface (approx 2.4 X 1.6 metres) and in my opinion the damage it exhibits only to the trailing edge (mainly) suggests a controlled ditching with the flaperons (hence flaps) in the down position.

This piece of information likely also gives the search effort added confidence that there will be quite large pieces on the ocean bed to be found.
 
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Balerit
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:00 pm

WIederling wrote:
Balerit wrote:
Well the best example is SA295, The Helderberg. It was the deepest salvage operation ever undertaken and to this day we still don't know the cause. Look at TWA 800, I don't think they came to the correct conclusion to that either.


The Helderberg investigation was not without effect. ( and the way the crash site was determined rather interesting.)
It caused reevaluation of Combi layouts.

TWA800: what would be your assessmet?


Yes the Helderberg presented a few firsts. We know there was a fire on board but not what caused it. There have been theories from rocket fuel to computer batteries to red mercury and now the latest, the Kapton wiring. What it did was to spawn a plethora of conspiracy theories which I put down to the manufacturers themselves.

If you take the disaster that beset the Comet, it eventually failed as a result of the crashes and bad publicity after only what, 3 crashes. The lesson learned by manufacturers was to deflect responsibility from themselves to some other factor e.g. pilot error or someone else. The Helderberg investigation turned into a farce when Boeing and P&W tried to deflect responsibility. If you look at the findings for most air disasters, they just don't make sense. By the time of the TWA flight there had already been a few crashes of the B747.

If you now take TWA Flight 800, UAL Flight 811, Pan Am Flight 103, and Air India Flight 182 and China Airlines Flight 611, they all point to section 41 structural failure. In fact we had to do special inspections of the area on our B747's and the hardest part was removing the FEO's station to get to the structure where cracked frames were found and all this around the time of the Air India disaster, so the powers that be new exactly what was causing the problem.

A link to some photos:

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/others/aCI-611opinionn.html
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richierich
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:06 pm

I firmly believe that the remains of MH370 will be found one day, perhaps in the next year or two. Maybe 2018 is the year!
It's just a question of how long the funding can go on for, and I realize that it is not open ended. As others have pointed out, we may never fully know what happened on board that ill-fated flight, but with items of wreckage to review, there would be plenty of new clues to go on. It is easy for me to say this sitting behind a keyboard with no skin in the game, but I really do think it is important to find this plane, not just for the closure of the victims' families but also to be even more certain there is no known technical fault with the B777 that could have caused this.
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:05 pm

awthompson wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Hmmmm my personal opinion is that It cannot be found. It disintergrated on impact similar to how there was little left from the germanwings crash.


I don't mean to be argumentative with you but MH370 did not completely disintegrate as did the Germanwings A320. Already a flaperon from MH370 was found washed up largely intact as well as a number of other pieces. The flaperon is a relatively large control surface (approx 2.4 X 1.6 metres) and in my opinion the damage it exhibits only to the trailing edge (mainly) suggests a controlled ditching with the flaperons (hence flaps) in the down position.

This piece of information likely also gives the search effort added confidence that there will be quite large pieces on the ocean bed to be found.



I see your point, however most people seem to think we will find an intact aircraft laying on the sea bed. Certainly won't be the case.
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loalq
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:20 pm

neomax wrote:
LoganTheBogan wrote:
Great news! I'm really hoping they locate something and I have a feeling they will. A company that has secured a deal like that will do anything to find it.


Nothing on this earth can remain hidden forever. It may take decades to find the remains or some underwater submersible may accidentally stumble across it 7 months from today. Who knows? But one thing is certain, it will be found. There is a finite amount of space on this earth and only so many places it could be. There is a certain point where everything given enough time will be accomplished. It has been several years, and I don't think it will be more than 6 or 7 months before someone realizes they've found the wreckage.



VR967 says otherwise...
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gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:32 pm

I do not want to quote a specific poster but do you guys really believe that if they find something it might not have been planted there on purpose or that they didn't have all the time in the world to do so? I guess this one is more complicated than some people think... They will never let us know the truth.
Last edited by gzm on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:34 pm

qf789 wrote:


So what has changed their minds? The article doesn't explain.
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:35 pm

Article from Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation about the search, equipment etc, including links to several other sources:
https://www.nrk.no/urix/norsk-skip-skal ... 1.13841363

Rough translation based on Google Tranlate:

Norwegian ship will look for the disappeared passenger plane

December 28, 2017: Almost four years after the passenger plane from Malaysia Airlines disappeared, a new search is now under way. The search will be conducted with a Norwegian ship and with Norwegian technology.

The ship Seabed Constructor owned by Swire Seabed in Bergen, has now reached Durban in South Africa. There it will get supplies and new crew. The course is then set to a point in the southern Indian Ocean. This point is the most likely place MH370 with 239 people aboard crashed March 8, 2014, according to Australian Transport Safety Bureau.

New method
The ship will use six Norwegian underwater robots built by Kongsberg Maritime in Horten. These will collaborate with robots on the surface. The Seabed Constructor crew will coordinate this swarm of robots to look for the airplane. Three pairs of robots will move on each side of the ship, according to Hydro International. The system makes it possible to investigate a large area in a short period of time, explains the American company Ocean Infinity, which will lead the search.

No contract
Ocean Infinity does not have a signed contract to perform the work. The company responded to a request for bids issued by the Malaysian authorities. Three companies replied, and Ocean Infinity was selected, according to Channel News Asia. The offer was to look for the passenger plane, and receive a cash prize if it was found. If the company does not find the plane, they will get no money. If they find the aircraft within 90 days of contract entry, they can get $ 70 million, according to The Week. The agreement was supposed to be signed this month, but it has not yet happened.

In a hurry
Ocean Infinity has nevertheless sent the ship to the mission, according to The Daily Beast. From Durban to the point of the sea there are ten days of sailing. The search must be completed in the period January to March due to the weather. When winter approaches on the southern hemisphere, the weather will be too bad to operate the fleet of robots. One of the robots from Kongsberg, Hugin 6000, has been used in the search for MH370 before. That time it proved difficult to use safely when the waves got too large.

New calculations made
The formal search for the MH370 was completed on 17 January this year. Malaysian authorities were open to staring a new search if new, credible information was found. That information is now supposedly in place. Researchers associated with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Australia have made new analyzes. They have calculated how floating debris from the aircraft would move on the ocean surface. They have combined this with where debris has been found. They have used satellite images of what is likely to be parts of the plane. They have conducted thorough analyzes of wind and currents. Along with other observations and data, they have identified three "hot" points within an area of ​​25,000 square kilometers. This is the area where the Norwegian ship will search.
 
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Balerit wrote:
If you now take TWA Flight 800, UAL Flight 811, Pan Am Flight 103, and Air India Flight 182 and China Airlines Flight 611, they all point to section 41 structural failure. In fact we had to do special inspections of the area on our B747's and the hardest part was removing the FEO's station to get to the structure where cracked frames were found and all this around the time of the Air India disaster, so the powers that be new exactly what was causing the problem.

A link to some photos:

http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/others/aCI-611opinionn.html


Ah yes! The section 41 conspiracy... I remember reading about that on a.net back around 2000 and when the Kalitta freighter overran at Brussels I mentioned to an aerospace alumni that pictures indicated the fuselage had broken around section 41 yet again. He was quite dismissive but I found this to be one conspiracy theory that had a lot going for it.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:34 pm

gzm wrote:
I do not want to quote a specific poster but do you guys really believe that if they find something it might not have been planted there on purpose or that they didn't have all the time in the world to do so? I guess this one is more complicated than some people think... They will never let us know the truth.


Ummm WOW! So you think that someone knows where the plane went down, and "they" will go back out there (or already have) plant evidence?

Who are "they" and why are "they" doing this?
 
gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:56 pm

Let's wait for the outcome of this search and then we will revert. Suddenly, out of the blue, they have clues so let's give them (the researchers) some time. Perhaps I am influenced,after all,by those YouTube videos that appeared shortly afterwards and predicted just that...
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:57 am

Malaysia government now confirms resumption of search for MH370

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/ind ... rch-mh370/
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:09 am

"Malaysia’s Deputy Transport Minister Ab Aziz Kaprawi said in October Ocean Infinity would be paid between $US20 and $US70 million if they find the aircraft within 90 days of beginning the search"

While I don't ever believe this aircraft will ever be found (broke up IMO), I think that it is an exorbitant amount of money finder's fee for any government to pay.

I guess this is more about the Malaysian government appeasing the victims families, then the Malaysian government believing it can be found.
 
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p51tang
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:07 am

Can someone please explain how far in (map location) Seabed Constructor will search, in comparison to the location of Diamantina Deep.
Am I sold on pings/.
Nope.
 
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scbriml
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:10 am

gzm wrote:
I do not want to quote a specific poster but do you guys really believe that if they find something it might not have been planted there on purpose or that they didn't have all the time in the world to do so? I guess this one is more complicated than some people think... They will never let us know the truth.


Please don't contaminate this thread with that nonsense. There's a thread in non-av precisely for that purpose.
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:39 pm

From Reuters:

"An email, sent from the MH Family Support Centre and seen by Reuters, said the government had accepted an offer by the company, Ocean Infinity, to resume the search on a “no cure, no fee” basis, meaning the company will only get paid if they find the plane."


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mala ... SKBN1EU10S

One would think that this search and exploration company has a pretty good idea of where to find the lost airliner. They won't get paid anything unless they actually locate the lost aircraft.
 
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Siren
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:04 pm

danman132x wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Apologies if covered in previous discussions, but how long can a black box physically survive in a deep ocean environment, both in a sense of it retaining useful data and before literally disintegrating ? Is this scenario tested in certification protocols ?


I'm wondering the same thing. After years, surely there will be salt water penetration into the flight recorders. Plus all the pressure on top of it. Will the data even be usable..


Assuming the plane had modern solid state recorders, and we've been told that it did, then we can rest assured that those recorders are in good shape and will be for many years to come. Remember, Air France 447's recorders weren't recovered for almost 2 years under similar conditions. Solid state memory chips can survive incredibly adverse conditions, provided they aren't subjected to electromagnetic stresses. Those things should be able to last 100 years down there...

I just question if we'll get any good data off the voice recorder that'll answer our questions - if the breaker to the CVR was pulled before the events happened, then obviously it wouldn't have the information on there. Or if it was a ghost plane for hours before the accident, all the CVR will have recorded would be alarms and the sound of engines failing before the electrical interrupt tone. The RAT would then have deployed, the recorder starts again, then impact with the sea and another electrical interrupt tone and end of recording...
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:49 am

Dutchy wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
FoxtrotSierra wrote:

I think you mean the needle. :D


I think what he means is first find the general area then go in for “needle” aka the aircraft.


Bingo, that's exactly what I meant. It is a very big ocean and endless sea of nothingness.


In this instance it is very possible that they haven't even located the correct farm yet ;)

Hemisphere > Continent > Country > State > County > City > Farm > Haystack > Needle ...(or something like that)... With the added difficulty of being kilometers deep in water and possibly covered up by silt and other seafloor obstacles...

How far along do y'all really think the 'experts' are in accurately narrowing down the correct area?
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:37 am

777Jet wrote:
How far along do y'all really think the 'experts' are in accurately narrowing down the correct area?

After debris was found washed up on beaches in the west Indian ocean and identified as being from MH 370, a new model of possible locations has been been created. When the new predicted locations are overlaid with the earlier assumptions, the combined information suggest that looking a bit north of the western part of the region that has already been searched may be fruitful. People have been working up drift models ever since debris was confirmed to have come from 9MMR0.

And yes, they are experts in their fields (without the quotes).

I second scrimbi's plea.
scbriml wrote:
Please don't contaminate this thread with that nonsense. There's a thread in non-av precisely for that purpose.

I think the participants of the fantasy thread in non-av would be doing everybody who is interested in the subject a favor by not bringing that stuff or those attitudes here.
 
Pampot70
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:59 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
"Malaysia’s Deputy Transport Minister Ab Aziz Kaprawi said in October Ocean Infinity would be paid between $US20 and $US70 million if they find the aircraft within 90 days of beginning the search"

While I don't ever believe this aircraft will ever be found (broke up IMO), I think that it is an exorbitant amount of money finder's fee for any government to pay.

I guess this is more about the Malaysian government appeasing the victims families, then the Malaysian government believing it can be found.



I am not sure either you or I read correctly the fee amount, but 20-70 million USD is nothing in the budget of any goverment. Malaysia in 2009 (wikipedia source) spent 4078 million USD for military. Just compare...
 
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:38 am

If this search finds anything meaningful I will be surprised. A few pieces of generic flotsam from the wreckage don't count as a good return if it doesn't solve the mystery. I think Malaysia has plenty of other more worthy causes to spend that kind of money on, to be honest.
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:08 pm

Pampot70 wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
"Malaysia’s Deputy Transport Minister Ab Aziz Kaprawi said in October Ocean Infinity would be paid between $US20 and $US70 million if they find the aircraft within 90 days of beginning the search"

While I don't ever believe this aircraft will ever be found (broke up IMO), I think that it is an exorbitant amount of money finder's fee for any government to pay.

I guess this is more about the Malaysian government appeasing the victims families, then the Malaysian government believing it can be found.



I am not sure either you or I read correctly the fee amount, but 20-70 million USD is nothing in the budget of any goverment. Malaysia in 2009 (wikipedia source) spent 4078 million USD for military. Just compare...


A defense budget, which includes artillery, manpower, ships, tanks, buildings, etc is one thing. At least there are some tangible assets. For 70 million, the country is asking some one to go out and find the plane. Mind you, not to recover it, just find it.
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:58 am

piedmontf284000 wrote:
Pampot70 wrote:
piedmontf284000 wrote:
"Malaysia’s Deputy Transport Minister Ab Aziz Kaprawi said in October Ocean Infinity would be paid between $US20 and $US70 million if they find the aircraft within 90 days of beginning the search"

While I don't ever believe this aircraft will ever be found (broke up IMO), I think that it is an exorbitant amount of money finder's fee for any government to pay.

I guess this is more about the Malaysian government appeasing the victims families, then the Malaysian government believing it can be found.



I am not sure either you or I read correctly the fee amount, but 20-70 million USD is nothing in the budget of any goverment. Malaysia in 2009 (wikipedia source) spent 4078 million USD for military. Just compare...


A defense budget, which includes artillery, manpower, ships, tanks, buildings, etc is one thing. At least there are some tangible assets. For 70 million, the country is asking some one to go out and find the plane. Mind you, not to recover it, just find it.


IMHO this is a very good deal for Malaysia as they will only have to pay if something significant is found and in a short time frame. 9M-MRO might not have been worth too much as a used 777-200ER, but the $US20-70 million is a lot less than the cost of a new 777 so that would be money well spent if the plane is found which might help answer some questions and bring some closure to the families and friends of those on board, as well as possibly contribute to safety improvements in the future depending on if the probable cause can be determined one day. I don't know what exactly the search company will be out of pocket if nothing is found and they don't get paid, but for them to enter into a 'no find no fee' type of arrangement with short time constraints indicates to me that they must have information that they are pretty confident with...
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:40 am

MillwallSean wrote:
A lot of discussion about finding MH370. Id like to expand on the reason for why I believe that the search has been resumed.

My guess is that since 2018 is election year in MY, the basis for the resumption is political. With Ramadan coming in May to June, the election more or less needs to be held before May.
There is thus alot of incentive for the Malaysian government to be seen doing something about MH370.
I thus dont think that new leads have much to do with the restart of the search but rather politics. Having a search ongoing takes the issue off the political agenda. It reduces the potential for the opposition to question, what is a sore point in Malaysia. Not that the opposition will win anyway, the steam has run out of them but there is no need to have MH370 in any news unless its positive such.

On a similar note, to the currency traders, the RM has started to appreciate. The economic fundamentals for that rise is hard to understand, so my humble guess is that the RM will continue appreciating until election-day.

Cynical perhaps, but with that said, I truly hope they will locate the plane. It would do wonders for the relatives and close a national wound.


MH370 isn't going to take the focus off the political agenda to be honest. Heck, the continuing search didn't even get front page coverage on the local media.

It's probably more to do with Ocean Infinity "no cure, no fee" proposal that kicked off the idea of resuming search.
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MatthewDB
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:21 am

scbriml wrote:
gzm wrote:
I do not want to quote a specific poster but do you guys really believe that if they find something it might not have been planted there on purpose or that they didn't have all the time in the world to do so? I guess this one is more complicated than some people think... They will never let us know the truth.


Please don't contaminate this thread with that nonsense. There's a thread in non-av precisely for that purpose.


I struggled to respond to that post in a way that didn't go overboard on a rude, insulting, and rule breaking response. Well stated and a more sensible response that I could muster.
 
spacecadet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:10 am

The plane will be found. The money is inconsequential. Next argument.
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notaxonrotax
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:11 am

aerorobnz wrote:
More good money will be thrown down the drain. If it gets located quickly then fine, but if it drags on as badly as the last search then it is an incredible waste of taxpayer money (especially per taxpayer) from first Australia, China, Malaysia and now just Malaysia. 200 million and counting, and far more than most of the victims would have generated in a lifetime with tax contributions.


Nice touch, the comparison with their "missed" tax contributions. Classy stuff!

It`s not a waste of money, this money goes into researching the seabed of an otherwise lonely and forgotten area.
Valuable data for the local government!
Those shipwrecks may be interesting too.

Additionally, we are learning about how to tackle such a search for future reference.
Inventing the technology is one thing, testing it out in the open in such a vast area will prove a steep learning curve.
This is one noble opportunity to test this equipment on such a tiny target.


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AAvgeek744
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:27 am

Aside from possibly learning what caused the flight to disappear I don't se spending millions of more dollars on trying to find the aircraft, or whatever is left of it. I understand the airline and families want closure. I understand there has been a few pieces of possible wreckage. I would chalk this up to a mystery that likely won't be solved.
 
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seat55a
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:02 am

Does anybody know the history of the company Ocean Infinity? Do they have one at all, or is it a new partnership? Nothing on their website about previous jobs (did I miss it?). Google doesn't turn up anything but equipment purchases and puff closely related to this story.

They don't own or manage the ship (Swire does).

Seems like this mission is an advertising loss leader - financed by venture cap perhaps? And a shakedown for their new software and toys.

They already got a bunch of publicity. Nobody really expects them to succeed so they won't be hurt if they fail, but will get huge kudos if they succeed.
 
nm2582
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:14 am

Perhaps someday in the not so distant future, we will have underwater gliders with some kind of solar panel on the top, so that they can surface by day to charge batteries, and submerge at night to use that energy to power whatever active imaging technologies (sonar, I assume) are needed for this kind of mission. (We already have underwater gliders / AUV's, but they don't have the power reserves to go actively throw energy at the ocean floor looking for stuff). Then we could just drop them in the ocean, check up on them every few months, and probably find MH370 (and who knows what else) quite inexpensively.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am

neomax wrote:
Nothing on this earth can remain hidden forever. It may take decades to find the remains or some underwater submersible may accidentally stumble across it 7 months from today. Who knows? But one thing is certain, it will be found. There is a finite amount of space on this earth and only so many places it could be. There is a certain point where everything given enough time will be accomplished. It has been several years, and I don't think it will be more than 6 or 7 months before someone realizes they've found the wreckage.

There's also a finite amount of money, man hours, and will... all of which render your statement rather fallacious.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:52 am

spacecadet wrote:
The money is inconsequential.

Easy to say when you're not the one spending it...

That's a statement essentially never uttered by those who are.

But that said: great to hear that the search is back on. Here's hoping they find it.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
456
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:19 pm

Is there some website where we can follow the progress? eg. Are they already searching/are there regular updates on what they have found?
(or is there maybe a flightradar for boats, where the boat from Ocean Infinity can be seen on)

edit:
Answering the first part of my question, based on the source:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 5859f59287

In an exclusive interview with The Australian ahead of the signing tonight of a contract with the Malaysian government, Ocean Infinity chief executive Oliver Plunkett said the ship Seabed Constructor was expected to be on station in the search zone in the southern Indian Ocean on January 17
 
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Carlos01
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:39 pm

Wow, personally I can't wait for the results! Any company agreeing to do this must be exceptionally confident that they have it in the bag. I'm sure there is a LOT of calculations and analysis that has been done in the meantime over the past 4 years, that we know nothing about in public.

So the search will commence in about 1 week, any day after that - might be the day. I'm betting that they'll announce the plane having been found on April 6th. And that's 2018.
 
gzm
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm

seat55a wrote:
Does anybody know the history of the company Ocean Infinity? Do they have one at all, or is it a new partnership? Nothing on their website about previous jobs (did I miss it?). Google doesn't turn up anything but equipment purchases and puff closely related to this story.

They don't own or manage the ship (Swire does).

Seems like this mission is an advertising loss leader - financed by venture cap perhaps? And a shakedown for their new software and toys.

You sum it up very nicely.Thank you for your research.
 
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United787
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:01 pm

WarrenPlatts wrote:
Well, there's this: http://mh370.radiantphysics.com/2017/10 ... /#comments

It turns out they found fragments of flight simulation flights dating from February 2, 2014 on a disconnected hard drive belonging to the PIC. It depicts an apparent simulation of MH150 (Kuala Lumpur to Jedda), that was diverted to the South Indian Ocean and ran to fuel exhaustion, apparently headed for McMurdo station in Antarctica. It turns out the PIC was PIC of MH150 on February 4. This would seem to indicate a certain amount of planning, and opens the possibility of control inputs at the very end of the flight, entailing that the wreckage could be up to two full degrees of latitude below the final BTO line-of-position....


I have not been following the threads on MH370 for several years so please forgive me but is this true? I am not interested in conspiracy theories but only in official reports and statements... but if there is some credible evidence out there that the PIC did simulate a flight similar to this, then that answer the question of what happened without even finding the wreckage. Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever know they why :( Please shed some rational light on this news.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:22 pm

456 wrote:
Is there some website where we can follow the progress? eg. Are they already searching/are there regular updates on what they have found?
(or is there maybe a flightradar for boats, where the boat from Ocean Infinity can be seen on)


AIS is sort of ADS-B for ships:

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/ho ... 6.7/zoom:4

I assume the search vessel can be found there.

/Fredrik
 
ltbewr
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:01 pm

I wonder if the Malaysian government is also resuming the search to improve trade and political relations with China as the plane's destination and many of the pax were PRC citizens.
 
BalkanBoy
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:07 pm

As a few others mentioned previously, I am very worried that the crash site/ debris field is in an area which as already been searched. This is terrifying since if this is the case, then the aircraft will NEVER be found. This makes question the quality of the search previously conducted. I know next to nothing about searching the ocean, but is it possible that low quality search equipment was used in one area while more precise equipment was used in other areas? If this is the case, we may have already sailed right by the crash site which is chilling.
 
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BaconButty
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:55 pm

United787 wrote:
I have not been following the threads on MH370 for several years so please forgive me but is this true?

Yep. What happened is they found fragments of flight sim "breadcrumb trails" on a hard drive belonging to the captain. 6 of the data points were released by the RMP could be made into a route bearing more than a passing resemblance to the path of MH370 - flying north up the Malacca Strait, then in the southern Indian Ocean apparently having exhausted fuel. At first it appeared to mean nothing - an ATSB made mention of thousands of these points being there - but Victor Ianello got hold of the raw data for these points, and they are connected by some aggregate parameters - iirc they were things like Max Banking Angle. In any case, these were the same for this selection of points implying they were a single flight, or so Victor concluded. So we have the first genuine evidence that the pilot may have been the culprit. However, I don't think it's a slam dunk, as I would like to know the following:
  • Were there any other points sharing the same aggregated values inconsistent with the flight path?
  • Why are the fuel burn figures inconsistent with a 777-200er model?
  • In MSFS at what point are these values (e.g. max banking angle) reset? Per virtual flight? Per session?
In addition it's worth noting that the sim flight isn't a perfect match - it doesn't head north initially, and ends 1000 miles away from the expected crash site.But still, strong circumstantial evidence.

Another couple of developments since MH370 moved to non-av and the entertaining world of Spycatcher. Other RMP reports were leaked. The investigation into the Captains personal and work life was thorough and showed no anomalies, and the voice analysis - especially who said "Good Night Malaysian Three Seven Zero" - was not as conclusive as suggested.

This stuff is from my memory - the latter two were on Jeff Wises blog (jeffwise.net) and the flight sim stuff was on mh370.radiantphysics.com. Apologies if I'm wrong. There's nothing conspiracy theory there - I haven't heard anyone question the authenticity of e.g. the sim data. Will look for links, and I must see if things have moved on since last I looked.

Edit:
Article on Sim data
Psych evaluation
Links to RMP leaked docs inc voice analysis
A good article with alternative explanations for the sim data
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:41 am

BaconButty wrote:
Another couple of developments since MH370 moved to non-av and the entertaining world of Spycatcher. Other RMP reports were leaked. The investigation into the Captains personal and work life was thorough and showed no anomalies, and the voice analysis - especially who said "Good Night Malaysian Three Seven Zero" - was not as conclusive as suggested.

This stuff is from my memory - the latter two were on Jeff Wises blog (jeffwise.net) and the flight sim stuff was on mh370.radiantphysics.com.


Another development ""since MH370 moved to non-av and the entertaining world of Spycatcher"" was the confirmation of the 're-connection' between the FO's cell phone and a cell phone tower near Penang.

Since you mentioned the Jeff Wise blog, it is one of the few places that you can find images and a discussion on this point:

http://jeffwise.net/2016/11/11/long-rum ... s-at-last/

Here is an article about a month after the disappearance discussing the 're-connection':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ished.html


"" "At one point, however, when the aeroplane was airborne, between waypoint Igari and the spot near Penang (just before it went missing from radar), the line was 'reattached'.

"A 'reattachment' does not necessarily mean that a call was made. It can also be the result of the phone being switched on again."

Many airlines insist that crews turn their mobile phones off while airborne. But in reality some pilots leave their phones on – either intentionally, to surreptitiously read emails; or by mistake.

"If it was suddenly switched on mid flight, then it does suggest that something untoward was occurring," said Alastair Rosenschein, an aviation expert and former British Airways pilot.

"But it's not unusual for a phone to be left on innocently, by mistake, and then come into signal area. ""


I now refer to the last sentence in the quote above and ask the following; if the FO's cell phone was left on, either intentionally or by mistake, making the re-connection just a result of the plane (and cell phone) coming into a signal area again, then why was ONLY this cell phone (and not the cell phones of any of the other 200+ SOB who might have left their cell phone on too) detected by this tower and not by any other tower along the route, especially very early in the flight when the plane was lower, slower and also over populated areas with cell phone coverage? Maybe the FO's cell phone was switched on by somebody in the cockpit as the plane was near Penang meaning at least someone was in the cockpit and alive at that point of the flight.
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salttee
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:53 am

So Malaysia signed up to pay $70 million if Ocean Infinity finds the plane's remains within 90 days.

So if these guys put seven million into the project and they hit paydirt, they get 10 to 1 odds on their bet. If they lose, they'll still have a great adventure. For some people that would sound appealing. It's better odds than Vegas!
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:47 pm

777Jet wrote:
why was ONLY this cell phone (and not the cell phones of any of the other 200+ SOB who might have left their cell phone on too) detected by this tower and not by any other tower along the route,


As with every one of these claims intended to insinuate someone's guilt for MH370, the information seems suspiciously vague and unlikely. Do we actually know that this was the only phone and its only connection or is that yet another bit of fudging? The way I see it, either the claim is inaccurate or there were hundreds of connections from phones on board while it overflew the peninsula... but saying "peoples' phones tried to reconnect" doesn't point any fingers, does it...!? :scratchchin:
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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777Jet
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:12 am

Here is a link to, and a few quotes from, an article discussing how the experts came up with this new target area of 35S:



"MH370: Evidence points to Malaysia Airlines wreck being at 35 degrees south in Indian Ocean"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-12/m ... 5s/9321978

"""One source close to the investigation says only one of the five auto pilot settings — constant magnetic heading (CMH) — would lead to a crash site at 35S, where the ocean current at the time ran in the opposite direction, towards Africa...

"The oceanographic reason for why 35 [degrees south] is more likely than say 34, or 33, or 32, is that at all those latitudes the current is going to the east," Dr Griffin said.

"So if the crash had been in any of those latitudes then there'd be a high chance of at least one or two things turning up in Australia. Whereas there've been 20 or 30 or so items turned up in Africa, and not a single one come to Australia.

"Once you start looking in the vicinity of 36 to 32, then 35 is the only option."
...

"French satellite images first seen in March 2014, a week or so after the plane disappeared, showed white objects in this same area, at 35S.

At the time the objects were dismissed as unimportant.

Other photos had showed similar "blobs" elsewhere in the southern Indian Ocean, many of which were later ruled out as shipping containers, general ocean rubbish or even pods of dolphins.

The French photos were also of poor quality, making it almost impossible to see what the objects were.

But as other evidence began to point further north — the results of the CSIRO drift study and the discovery of more debris linked to the missing plane — investigators suddenly remembered the satellite images.

They asked the French for better copies. And only then did they realise the photos were more significant than first thought.

"When anyone looks at them you think, if they're not bits of plane, what are they? Because for lots of those other objects you can find an explanation, but for these you can't," Dr Griffin said.""


Really hoping that this 'drift study' modeling is the key to solving this mystery because I can't see there being any new avenues for coming up with a likely location.
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p51tang
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Re: MH370: Malaysia set to announce resumption of search as early as this week

Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am

Gidday 777jet,I always look forward to your posts. :smile:

So here's what I have seen so far:

I can see the search area encompasses Broken Ridge.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2100795/f ... ws-search/

I can see $157 million has been spent so far, with a promise of up to another $70 million reward pending evidence of location. (But with a caveat of 90 days must find)
http://www.theweek.co.uk/mh370/57641/mh ... sing-plane

I can see that Ocean Infinity has a search depth of 6000m max.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... df809e1fcb

I can see that 35 degrees south or the 35th parallel runs across Broken Ridge.
Image

I can see that the 7th arc runs over Broken ridge.
Image


I can see that Diamantina Deep at it's deepest point is between 7,000m - 8,000m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamantina_Deep

You be the judge.

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