spk
Posts: 431
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2001 1:56 am

How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:13 pm

Is it possible to change the cabin layout? Let's say my business class is doing pretty well and I want to add more b/c seats by reducing economy class seats. How about adding lav. or moving the galley?
 
Guest

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:39 pm

Good question actually...wondered about this- I have noticed the grooves on the cabin floor that anchor the seating but am unsure whether a quick "refit" of putting an extra 6 or 12 seats into a narrow body could be done with minimal effort- would it have to be that supervised by mechanics, and how long would the a/c be out of action- or could it be done at a gate or remote stand by the captain with assistants?

I have also wondered about some other things- how are those convertable seats actually converted? Has anyone ever seen it done? Also- can "plugged" windows be unplugged? How? Oh, there is certainly a lot of mystery in aviation for me lol.

SixStarAnsett
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:48 pm

BA has probably got the most flexible seating on its European flights, where three economy seats can easily be switched over to two by a hidden lever in the rear of the seat. Usually it is done on the left side making a 2-3 arrangement. Seats are called 1AC 1DEF, etc. This also allows aircraft to change quite simply for different route demands for Business. Seats at the front of the aircraft have a greater seat pitch, so when seats are in Economy config, it is good to sit forward!
Class divider curtains are easily to move as they are clipped to the overhead stowage bins.
As for moving galleys and toilets - don't even think about it! Galleys in particular must be located near service doors normally on the right of the aircraft!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:37 pm

Most of the European carriers can do this very easily, as the actual seats are the same in Y and C class. On most of the carriers, the only thing that changes is the seating on the left side of the a/c (ABC side) - in Y, there are 3 seats, and in C, there are 2. To do this, there's normally a lever on the side of the seat that, when moved, converts the centre seat into a smaller space, making the A and C seats wider. This takes just a few seconds to do.

You see this a lot on the high-revenue routes like LHR-DUB, almost all of which are operated by A321s - in the morning and evening flights, there may be up to 21 rows of C class, with just a few left for Y, and during the middle of the day the C seating may be reduced down to 5 or 6 rows since there's less demand. This changeover can be done during the normal aircraft turnaround time.

star_world
 
GOT
Posts: 1843
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2000 6:44 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:42 pm

I can add that Falcon Air convert their 737-300(QC), where QC is quick convertible, from a passenger a/c to a freighter or vice versa between 20 and 60 minutes, depending on source.

GOT
Just like birdwatching - without having to be so damned quiet!
 
hkg_clk
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 2:56 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:45 pm

Wouldn't this be unfair for business class passengers who are sitting on the 3 side of the cabin? their seats will be narrower than those on the other side.
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Cathay Pacific
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 1:29 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:58 pm

it won't be unfair the seats have the same width. (remember the other side only has 2 seats, so there are room for the 3 seats on the other side to have a wider width)
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
star_world
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 7:52 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:29 pm

Cathay Pacific - no, the right side has 3 seats on most aircraft that are used in Europe. The only ones that have a 5 seat layout are the MD-8x series. All the Airbus 32x aircraft, and 737 / 757 have a 3-3 configuration normally. As mentioned above, it can be converted to a 2-3 config for C class.

To answer Hkg-clk's question, yes, the seats on the right will be narrower, but they will very rarely put someone in the middle seat (seat E usually). This will only happen if every other seat is taken. Some airlines actually have these seats taken out of the available inventory - I think BA do this now on their Euro flights.

star_world
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:34 pm

Nice one, Cathay!
The seats on the left side are still the width of three seats, so are those on the right. The only difference is that with the converted seats on the left side you do have a wider seat with one armrest/tray space between you and your companion. On the right side, the dispatcher blocks out all the E seats (of DEF) in the DCS computer so that check-in staff cannot use them, thus leaving an empty space between pax, in D and F, but still with two armrests! If you're lucky enough to be travelling in Club, request a seat A or C.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
Cathay Pacific
Posts: 1715
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 1:29 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:53 am

ummm.....i flew SAA's C class from JNB to CPT last Dec (it was a 737-800), as the flight wasn't very full i switched seat after take off, and i thought the seat on the left and right were pretty much the same width....anyway, ii stand corrected if i made a mistake in my previous posts Embarrassment
cathay pacific, now you're really flying
 
OE-LDA
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2000 5:29 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 2:52 am

From what I have seen so far, when the seats are switched from 3-3 in Y-class to 2-3 in C-class, then the 3 seats are extended in their width. So all the seats in C-section will have the same width, and also the middle seat will be sold.

Regards, OE-LDA
I am totally missing basics and clueless about airline flying!
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 4:17 am

OE-LDA
Star-world was talking about European operators, I was relating to first hand experience on British Airways.
Some, much less flexible, carriers have a dedicated 2-3 busines cabin, which gives seats of same width, but obviously take a lot longer time to unbolt and reconfigure, occasionally leaving a gap in space between C and Y due to having to adjust seat pitch.
As mentioned above, BA and other European carriers use an aircraft on differing routes and traffic demand, so they go for the convertible seat in ABC. It works well, and most pax are happy due to generally short flights!
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2448
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:15 am

On US carriers config changes are done by maintenance. Usually at a heavy check or special mod line. Galleys and lavs can be moved but that is a major undertaking. Plumbing and wiring must also be moved. The tracks that hold the seats are the same through the whole cabin, even under the galleys and lavs. When DL changed from three class service to two class I think the MD11 fleet had some major movement of the galley spaces. To convert the 737-200 fleet for Express the seats were just changed. We did some other mods at the same time so each plane took about a week.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Mon Feb 25, 2002 10:45 am

Id you really wanted to you could take rows of seats out and adjust the remaining seats with two people in a couple hours. QCs are easy since everything is palletized. Open the cargo door and push everything onto the forklift. Voila, a freighter.

In other words, the seats are very easy.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:34 pm

I saw this happening on a Military Il-76. The pax seats were on wheeled *trays*, which slid into position. There could have been 6 or 7 trays in all.

The Il-76 has a large rear door which makes this possible. Would it be possible on a 737?
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:47 pm

have a look at some interior shots people... oe-lda is correct.

seat block on left gets smaller - seat block on right gets wider by using the same lever thing. they usually dont allocate the E seat as it not preffered by the customer.

have a look at interior shots of SAS, LH and BA on 737 and A320 a/c.. LH use convertible seats on their euro a300 and ba on their euro b763.
 
airfrancejfk
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2002 1:05 am

RE: How Hard Is It To Change Cabin Layout?

Wed Feb 27, 2002 12:14 am

How about just putting in a moving curtain, separating business and economy. Done on lots of European flights.

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