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Taxi645
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:41 pm

Something in the order of 30-40 planes might have given EK enough leverage to get some form of commitment from airbus about a future A380NEO.

At least the official stance appears to have changed from "their is no business case for new engines now" to "new engines will likely make sense somewhere in the future"
 
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Slug71
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:30 pm

seahawk wrote:
30+ is more than expected and at the reduced production rate, would keep the program alive for quite some time. It should be enough to reach the time window for which a new engine becomes reasonably attractive. The question is what improvements do the new frames bring?

Winglets? Engine PiPs? New stair configuration?


Hopefully a 50-seat stretch, redesigned wing (with winglets that can be retrofitted), reduced weight, and T7000. ;)
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:41 pm

Taxi645 wrote:
Something in the order of 30-40 planes might have given EK enough leverage to get some form of commitment from airbus about a future A380NEO.

At least the official stance appears to have changed from "their is no business case for new engines now" to "new engines will likely make sense somewhere in the future"

Yet we know from the 2014 effort that EK's business alone is not enough to finance an A380neo.

It would seem Airbus is anticipating some fleet renewal orders in the mid 2020s and of course there's always that great hope that emerging markets will decide to make the A380 their airliner of choice.

Hope springs eternal. Just look how lathered up the 767 fan base is all of a sudden!
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It is a deadly cancer on American society
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parapente
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:12 pm

I expected an order from Emirates at some time (the 380 is the backbone of their offering).But was surprised by the (early) timing.Would have expected in a year or two.Any particular reason for now?They still have 40 on order.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:28 pm

An order for another 30 A388's is a nice score for Airbus.

Also a nice sop for the 70 B78J's they order as well. :devil: :rotfl:
 
Arion640
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:29 pm

Revelation wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
This has now turned into a fan boy thread.

Hopefully it turns into an "EK has just ordered 30+ A380s" thread.

That'd be a lot more fun than the last few pages have been.


It would still be full of EK and A380 haters going EK is bad don't fly them, the A380 is a bad airliner don't fly it. How can they justify order 30 more? It's going to fail anyway etc etc.

It would be hysterical to see 30 A380's + 50 A359's ordered. Buy 50 A350's get 30 A380's half price.
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Kikko19
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:33 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Revelation wrote:

The inability to understand concepts more complicated than "hate" was unbelievable to me, but not it is not.

There is a difference between thinking that an airliner doesn't fit today environment vs wishing the death of a very customer friendly aircraft.

But thanks for butting in a discussion that has nothing to do with you.


I will admit a degree of animosity towards the A380 because of its aesthetics (it's ugly) and for contributing to the end of the 747. That being said, I agree with other posters above that the appropriate reason to wish its end is to remove an imperfect product from the market and hopefully see it replaced by something better. as far as being passenger friendly goes, I have a hard time imagining anything that forces me into Y seating with 400 other people as passenger friendly, whether the seats are an inch wider or not.

I've been flying in the whale. Far better than any other plane. In your much more space, far more silent... Try and you will have a different opinion. Ps tried a330, a340, 777, 747... None can compete space wise. Or noise wise.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:39 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
There is a difference between thinking that an airliner doesn't fit today environment vs wishing the death of a very customer friendly aircraft.

But thanks for butting in a discussion that has nothing to do with you.


I will admit a degree of animosity towards the A380 because of its aesthetics (it's ugly) and for contributing to the end of the 747. That being said, I agree with other posters above that the appropriate reason to wish its end is to remove an imperfect product from the market and hopefully see it replaced by something better. as far as being passenger friendly goes, I have a hard time imagining anything that forces me into Y seating with 400 other people as passenger friendly, whether the seats are an inch wider or not.

I've been flying in the whale. Far better than any other plane. In your much more space, far more silent... Try and you will have a different opinion. Ps tried a330, a340, 777, 747... None can compete space wise. Or noise wise.


I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.
 
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DWC
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:39 pm

Revelation wrote:
Taxi645 wrote:
Something in the order of 30-40 planes might have given EK enough leverage to get some form of commitment from airbus about a future A380NEO.
At least the official stance appears to have changed from "their is no business case for new engines now" to "new engines will likely make sense somewhere in the future"

Yet we know from the 2014 effort that EK's business alone is not enough to finance an A380neo.
It would seem Airbus is anticipating some fleet renewal orders in the mid 2020s and of course there's always that great hope that emerging markets will decide to make the A380 their airliner of choice.

I also sense this makes economic & strategical sense for incumbent airlines. 8-)
I see 2017-2020 as a TRANSITIONAL PHASE, but may work one way or the other depending on momentum.
I gave four scenarios for which the A380 could be saved.
Scenario 1 : if the 30+ deal is signed next week, it will be a major boost to keep the A380 programme alive until the 2020-2025 upgradings.
Scenario 2 depends on whether Hifly's gamble is solid or not : we should know by early 2018.
By next week or somewhere until 2020, we should know how EK plans their fleet renewal ( typically 12 years ) or renew their leases in the "worse case". If they return their early birds, the Hifly experience will by then give indications to A380s possible future ( or none ) in the second hand market.

Conversely, 30+ is still >50% more than either SQ's entire A380 fleet ( the second operator ) or current EY+QR´s combined fleets, thereby making the A380 even more dependent on EK & perhaps, as many have outlined, prevent top-ups from other airlines.
EK are really strengthening that league of their own.

From a conservative POV, I think Keesje summarized it well : ( NH's cute turtle livery is missing )
keesje wrote:
I expect further sales from current operators and some more justifying a Mid Life upgrade to be launched in the coming yrs.
Optimizing engines, capacity and systems for the new decade.
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:58 pm

Arion640 wrote:
It would still be full of EK and A380 haters going EK is bad don't fly them, the A380 is a bad airliner don't fly it. How can they justify order 30 more? It's going to fail anyway etc etc.

It would be hysterical to see 30 A380's + 50 A359's ordered. Buy 50 A350's get 30 A380's half price.

It'll give both sides something to be happy about.

A380 supporters: We have one more decade of A380 in production and two more decades of A380 in service!

A380 doubters: We have one more decade of A380 being a millstone around Airbus's neck!

If nothing else, two more decades of flame wars on A.net! :biggrin:
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
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tphuang
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:01 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

I will admit a degree of animosity towards the A380 because of its aesthetics (it's ugly) and for contributing to the end of the 747. That being said, I agree with other posters above that the appropriate reason to wish its end is to remove an imperfect product from the market and hopefully see it replaced by something better. as far as being passenger friendly goes, I have a hard time imagining anything that forces me into Y seating with 400 other people as passenger friendly, whether the seats are an inch wider or not.

I've been flying in the whale. Far better than any other plane. In your much more space, far more silent... Try and you will have a different opinion. Ps tried a330, a340, 777, 747... None can compete space wise. Or noise wise.


I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.

So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.
 
Kikko19
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:25 pm

tphuang wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
I've been flying in the whale. Far better than any other plane. In your much more space, far more silent... Try and you will have a different opinion. Ps tried a330, a340, 777, 747... None can compete space wise. Or noise wise.


I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.

So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.
777... The worst. Noisy and 10 abreast as cramped as a Ryanair flight... At least on KL...
 
UAEflyer
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Re: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:35 pm

EK might order upto 30 A380s in Dubai Airshow
 
tropical
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:44 pm

The overal capacity of the plane is quite irrelevant to the comfort or overall experience by passengers in Y class anyway. There are a number of partitions along the cabin dividing it into smaller sections, and it doesn’t look any different or more daunting than on any other widebody models.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:12 pm

tphuang wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
I've been flying in the whale. Far better than any other plane. In your much more space, far more silent... Try and you will have a different opinion. Ps tried a330, a340, 777, 747... None can compete space wise. Or noise wise.


I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.

So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.


It doesn't make it somewhat comfortable, it would just make it slightly less uncomfortable. I've been in an A320 E+ seat which is about what a A380 has as far as width and pitch. There is nothing that would make that comfortable on a long haul flight.

tropical wrote:
The overal capacity of the plane is quite irrelevant to the comfort or overall experience by passengers in Y class anyway. There are a number of partitions along the cabin dividing it into smaller sections, and it doesn’t look any different or more daunting than on any other widebody models.


Completely disagree. I actually do love flying, I just hate dealing with the other people on the plane. The fewer of them the better. It makes gates areas louder, more crowded and crazy, boarding and deboarding longer, customs more congested. One of my more unpleasant traveling experiences was waiting to board a delta 757 at LAX. The mass crowd of people was just obnoxious. Being in W, I was fortunate to be able to get on relatively quickly and get out of the mess. A 73G load would've been so much nicer. My favorite thing about the 757 was DL has a small W cabin to the left of L2 which was where I bought my seat. That way, once I got on, I was separated from the chaos I could hear unfolding behind me. You also often share more bathrooms if Seatguru is accurate (I know they may not be). EKs A380s can have up to 42 pax/bathroom on the lower level. The 77Ws are about 30. A QR 788 is about 38.
 
Jayafe
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:18 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
... I've been in an A320 E+ seat which is about what a A380 has as far as width and pitch...


One thing has nothing to do with the other, it is completely different no matter distances match (which I don't think they do). Also, boarding an A380 is far more quiet and efficient than any narrow body in the market, believe or not (the internet is full of reviews).

It amazes me how people who has no first hand experience can have such solid opinions full of reason based on nothing.
 
Eyad89
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Re: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:22 pm

UAEflyer wrote:
EK might order upto 30 A380s in Dubai Airshow


Instead of making the long-awaited decision on the 787/A350 order, EK goes for 30 A380s.

It is very difficult to tell what ME3 are up to.
 
tphuang
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:00 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.

So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.


It doesn't make it somewhat comfortable, it would just make it slightly less uncomfortable. I've been in an A320 E+ seat which is about what a A380 has as far as width and pitch. There is nothing that would make that comfortable on a long haul flight.

tropical wrote:
The overal capacity of the plane is quite irrelevant to the comfort or overall experience by passengers in Y class anyway. There are a number of partitions along the cabin dividing it into smaller sections, and it doesn’t look any different or more daunting than on any other widebody models.


Completely disagree. I actually do love flying, I just hate dealing with the other people on the plane. The fewer of them the better. It makes gates areas louder, more crowded and crazy, boarding and deboarding longer, customs more congested. One of my more unpleasant traveling experiences was waiting to board a delta 757 at LAX. The mass crowd of people was just obnoxious. Being in W, I was fortunate to be able to get on relatively quickly and get out of the mess. A 73G load would've been so much nicer. My favorite thing about the 757 was DL has a small W cabin to the left of L2 which was where I bought my seat. That way, once I got on, I was separated from the chaos I could hear unfolding behind me. You also often share more bathrooms if Seatguru is accurate (I know they may not be). EKs A380s can have up to 42 pax/bathroom on the lower level. The 77Ws are about 30. A QR 788 is about 38.

I think given that you have never flown on the aircraft and now are comparing it to some rather uncomfortable ones, you should stick with things you have tried.

Please do try fly ek a380 one time before downgrading this aircraft.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:23 pm

tphuang wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.


It doesn't make it somewhat comfortable, it would just make it slightly less uncomfortable. I've been in an A320 E+ seat which is about what a A380 has as far as width and pitch. There is nothing that would make that comfortable on a long haul flight.

tropical wrote:
The overal capacity of the plane is quite irrelevant to the comfort or overall experience by passengers in Y class anyway. There are a number of partitions along the cabin dividing it into smaller sections, and it doesn’t look any different or more daunting than on any other widebody models.


Completely disagree. I actually do love flying, I just hate dealing with the other people on the plane. The fewer of them the better. It makes gates areas louder, more crowded and crazy, boarding and deboarding longer, customs more congested. One of my more unpleasant traveling experiences was waiting to board a delta 757 at LAX. The mass crowd of people was just obnoxious. Being in W, I was fortunate to be able to get on relatively quickly and get out of the mess. A 73G load would've been so much nicer. My favorite thing about the 757 was DL has a small W cabin to the left of L2 which was where I bought my seat. That way, once I got on, I was separated from the chaos I could hear unfolding behind me. You also often share more bathrooms if Seatguru is accurate (I know they may not be). EKs A380s can have up to 42 pax/bathroom on the lower level. The 77Ws are about 30. A QR 788 is about 38.

I think given that you have never flown on the aircraft and now are comparing it to some rather uncomfortable ones, you should stick with things you have tried.

Please do try fly ek a380 one time before downgrading this aircraft.


I can read numbers. EKs A380 has the same or less space than a B6 or F9 A320 in E+ (all are 18-18.5" width, at least 3 seats to a row, with the A320s having more pitch) which is what I've flown on and am comparing the seat to. Those seats would not be comfortable on a long haul, so there's no reason to think an A380 would. I think a US domestic F (so international premium Y) is the smallest seat I'd call comfortable. That's not what's on EKs A380s. I mention the 757 because an A380 isn't going to be any nicer dealing with boarding or getting off. If anything, it will be worse because it's more than twice as many people.
 
Jayafe
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:43 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
I can read numbers. EKs A380 has the same or less space than a B6 or F9 A320 in E+ (all are 18-18.5" width, at least 3 seats to a row, with the A320s having more pitch) which is what I've flown on and am comparing the seat to. Those seats would not be comfortable on a long haul, so there's no reason to think an A380 would. I think a US domestic F (so international premium Y) is the smallest seat I'd call comfortable. That's not what's on EKs A380s. I mention the 757 because an A380 isn't going to be any nicer dealing with boarding or getting off. If anything, it will be worse because it's more than twice as many people.


Nice, don't let reality mess with you faith...
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:16 pm

Jayafe wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
I can read numbers. EKs A380 has the same or less space than a B6 or F9 A320 in E+ (all are 18-18.5" width, at least 3 seats to a row, with the A320s having more pitch) which is what I've flown on and am comparing the seat to. Those seats would not be comfortable on a long haul, so there's no reason to think an A380 would. I think a US domestic F (so international premium Y) is the smallest seat I'd call comfortable. That's not what's on EKs A380s. I mention the 757 because an A380 isn't going to be any nicer dealing with boarding or getting off. If anything, it will be worse because it's more than twice as many people.


Nice, don't let reality mess with you faith...


Don't let facts numbers and figures mess with yours. I'd love to hear how a same size or smaller seat with the same number of seat mates on a more crowded plane is a far more comfortable experience.
 
aaexecplat
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:58 pm

tjh8402 wrote:
Jayafe wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
I can read numbers. EKs A380 has the same or less space than a B6 or F9 A320 in E+ (all are 18-18.5" width, at least 3 seats to a row, with the A320s having more pitch) which is what I've flown on and am comparing the seat to. Those seats would not be comfortable on a long haul, so there's no reason to think an A380 would. I think a US domestic F (so international premium Y) is the smallest seat I'd call comfortable. That's not what's on EKs A380s. I mention the 757 because an A380 isn't going to be any nicer dealing with boarding or getting off. If anything, it will be worse because it's more than twice as many people.


Nice, don't let reality mess with you faith...


Don't let facts numbers and figures mess with yours. I'd love to hear how a same size or smaller seat with the same number of seat mates on a more crowded plane is a far more comfortable experience.


The plane doesn't feel more crowded than a A320. Quite the opposite. The boarding area is obviously more crowded. But once you scan your bp, the A380 boards (at least at most major airports) on the botton and upper dech and often multiple doors on both decks, so the boarding process is super efficient. Once you are on board, the seat stats may look identical to the A320, but the aircraft is much quieter and roomier in terms of aisle width, length and overhead space (I am not talking about the bins). If you fly a decent carrier (like SQ or TG) the food is very edible and the service friendly.

I fly at least one roundtrip midcon for work every week and I can honestly say I would rather fly on an A380 for 6-8 hours than a A320 for 3-4. But in all honesty...if you don't like crowds or people and you have never flown the A380 or even traveled internationally, you should consider a Netjet subscription or private aviation in general. Then you don't have to worry about any of this.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:04 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
UAEflyer wrote:
EK might order upto 30 A380s in Dubai Airshow


Instead of making the long-awaited decision on the 787/A350 order, EK goes for 30 A380s.

It is very difficult to tell what ME3 are up to.


Simple, DXB restricts numbers of frames, so EK goes for size. The new A380 will replace older A380, so the dream that 777-9 will replace A380 should be dead.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:32 pm

aaexecplat wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:
Jayafe wrote:

Nice, don't let reality mess with you faith...


Don't let facts numbers and figures mess with yours. I'd love to hear how a same size or smaller seat with the same number of seat mates on a more crowded plane is a far more comfortable experience.


The plane doesn't feel more crowded than a A320. Quite the opposite. The boarding area is obviously more crowded. But once you scan your bp, the A380 boards (at least at most major airports) on the botton and upper dech and often multiple doors on both decks, so the boarding process is super efficient. Once you are on board, the seat stats may look identical to the A320, but the aircraft is much quieter and roomier in terms of aisle width, length and overhead space (I am not talking about the bins). If you fly a decent carrier (like SQ or TG) the food is very edible and the service friendly.

I fly at least one roundtrip midcon for work every week and I can honestly say I would rather fly on an A380 for 6-8 hours than a A320 for 3-4. But in all honesty...if you don't like crowds or people and you have never flown the A380 or even traveled internationally, you should consider a Netjet subscription or private aviation in general. Then you don't have to worry about any of this.


I never brought up food or service. I've had delightful FAs and even tasty snacks in Ynon every US airline. Didn't make the seating arrangements less unpleasant. I can certainly understand the top level being nice, but with many airlines putting Y on the bottom level with 350-400 passengers, down there it's basically like being on a single class 777. I'm not tall so I don't feel cramped for headroom on an A320 and I've never said noise is a complaint nor aisle width. My point all along is that sharing a row of 3 or more 18 in seats for long flights is cramped, miserable and uncomfortable, and wider aisles, more headroom or less noise won't change that even if it takes some edge off. I never said the A380 was just as uncomfortable and miserable as every else, just that it wasn't comfortable. Going from a 2/10 to a 4/10 is an improvement, but still hardly something to get excited about. Domestic F seats are the smallest I'd ever be comfortable in, and even then some of those are pretty miserable (pmUA 757 comes to mind). I wish I could have a netjets membership, but I'll never be able to afford that so I choose to just save up my points and miles so I can maybe see about it one day, and in the meantime, just not travel. Either that or rely on Benadryl, melatonin, and alcohol to get through the flight.
 
Kikko19
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:57 am

Compare a320 with a380... Let's compare potatoes to potatoes and apples to apples... 777 and 747 to a380
 
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seahawk
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:05 am

Passenger comfort is not connected to the aircraft type, but to the airline.
 
Ugly51
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:18 am

I have flown on every Emirates aircraft type in service A333,A343,A345,A388, 777, 777ER. The ckmfort and seating arrangements on the A380 are superior to anything other than maybe SQ First Class. Emirates have a fantastic product using the A380, may it continue for us distance flyers.
 
Planesmart
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:26 am

Ugly51 wrote:
I have flown on every Emirates aircraft type in service A333,A343,A345,A388, 777, 777ER. The ckmfort and seating arrangements on the A380 are superior to anything other than maybe SQ First Class. Emirates have a fantastic product using the A380, may it continue for us distance flyers.

Ditto
 
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Slug71
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:33 am

seahawk wrote:
Passenger comfort is not connected to the aircraft type, but to the airline.


For the most part, yes. But there is a level of comfort when you fly with a VLA. The space I think. Would love to fly in a 787 and A350, but I always choose a 747 or A380 when I fly transcon. Really don't care for the 777, A330 isn't too bad, but just not the same as a VLA.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:49 am

seahawk wrote:
Passenger comfort is not connected to the aircraft type, but to the airline.


That is a ridiculous statement. After 12 or more hours on a 777 i have a headache. It it just damn loud; both the ventilation and outside noise that penetrates in. I attempt to avoid the type if possible. To me the noise is far worse than 10 vs 9 across.
 
Noshow
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:10 am

Passenger comfort IS very much connected to the aircraft type. If you sit inside a A380 maindeck in economy class on a window seat you have more space to your side than in other aircraft. Say an A330 for comparison. It is a huge difference regardless of the airline. Very low cabin noise is another A380 advantage.
Just my real world travel experience.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:38 am

And this would be different if one airline decides to go for the 11 abreast seating.

I will agree though that Boeing has been gaining efficiency at a cost for the passenger comfort with the 10 abreast 777 and 9 abreast 787.
 
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kasimir
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:47 am

tjh8402 wrote:
I never said the A380 was just as uncomfortable and miserable as every else, just that it wasn't comfortable. Going from a 2/10 to a 4/10 is an improvement, but still hardly something to get excited about. Domestic F seats are the smallest I'd ever be comfortable in, and even then some of those are pretty miserable (pmUA 757 comes to mind). I wish I could have a netjets membership, but I'll never be able to afford that so I choose to just save up my points and miles so I can maybe see about it one day, and in the meantime, just not travel. Either that or rely on Benadryl, melatonin, and alcohol to get through the flight.


Nobody will argue with you that First, Business or E+ is better than economy, no matter what airline or ac type you are on. Please don’t take this as an offense, just a curious question... How do you manage to go through life in general? Ever been to a busy cinema, live concert or sports game or a shopping mall around the holidays or how do you deal with a big city? Ever been on one of those big cruise ships? I think there can be far worst places that can be experienced on a daily basis than a boarding area for an A380.

Anyway, I have also flown most widebody aircraft types out there in economy and have to say, regardless of the airline service, the A380 has given me the best experience. That very wide cabin and high ceilings not only gives a roomier environment, but it feels less claustrophobic. I can stand nearly normally in the window seat because there is so much headroom. I know, not everybody likes the A380 window seat, but I love it, because of the extra space and distance to the side wall.
And if you couldn’t get an eco seat on the upper level, try to get a seat in the last compartment in the lower level, because its the smallest of all of them and you will never know that there are 400 other people as well.

I think the worst widebody aircraft type when it comes to overall space, comfort and cramped feeling in Y is the 777 in a 3-4-3 config.

Anyway, if you ever plan to fly intercontinental, I think an E+ seat on the A380 should give you the best experience for what you might be able to afford.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:40 am

tommy1808 wrote:
I think that is not correct, Doric Flugzeugfond 6 for an EK A380 had 10 years plus a two and a six years extention option, and if memory serves me correct all other two.
That being said, if they don't take the two years extension EK has to pay a lump sum or provide a new leasee under the same condition. So, it is 12 years in a sense.


Tim Clark mentioned first retirements are due in 2020, hence the 12-years lease period.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Eyad89
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:43 am

Well, Macron was in UAE just know. He managed to get UAE to buy a couple of French military ships. Is it possible that he even pushed EK to get those 30+ A380s? timing is just too convenient.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:51 am

AsiaTravel wrote:


That order alone is good for another 120 RR engines, spares not included. This comes on top of the 200 engines of the previous order. RR investments starts to pay off.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
StTim
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:27 pm

I enjoy the game theory discussions. Many on here decry Airbus for creating the 330neo. But the truth is this (and the ceo) keep pricing pressure on the 787. A low cost option to earn some profit and make it more difficult for your competitor to make money.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:50 pm

StTim wrote:
I enjoy the game theory discussions. Many on here decry Airbus for creating the 330neo. But the truth is this (and the ceo) keep pricing pressure on the 787. A low cost option to earn some profit and make it more difficult for your competitor to make money.
Fascinating stuff, and you make good points. So Boeing was in a very tough spot with the A380, and I think they had to do the 748i just to keep Airbus "honest" or play spoiler. As well as have a replacement for Air Force One, as an A380 would be just unacceptable/embarrassing on so many levels.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:00 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
AsiaTravel wrote:

That order alone is good for another 120 RR engines, spares not included. This comes on top of the 200 engines of the previous order. RR investments starts to pay off.

Interesting reply from a person who usually cautions us to not get ahead of events...
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Noshow
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:05 pm

AF one is about two aircraft only. That doesn't matter much. Airbus never competed because developing that very special configuration was not worth it for them,
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:13 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
tjh8402 wrote:

I didn't say the A380 may not be less unpleasant than others. It may be, but I would never call any long haul Y on any plane, especially with as many people as you find on an A380, passenger friendly. They're all varying degrees of discomfort and misery. I generally won't even fly domestic in Y unless it's an uber short (less than 90 minute flight). If I can't afford to at least get into Y+, I usually won't go on a trip. That's one reason I've never traveled internationally. I can't afford W or J and I won't put up with Y on a flight like that.

So you don't travel internationally and you want the one plane that makes traveling somewhat comfortable on long haul flights go away. The upper deck experience on a380 is unrivaled in airline industry. It allows ek to continue promoting itself as a high quality airline even though it's 777 are terribly uncomfortable.
777... The worst. Noisy and 10 abreast as cramped as a Ryanair flight... At least on KL...


Yes, I'm really "looking foward" to my next trip down south on a KL777 after my last experience (cramped, noisy, couldn't sleep, got shouted at by a power-tripping FA for trying to see the *amazing* dawn view of the Afghan mountains...). But then they were the only option departing from my local airport instead of taking a 2-hour bus ride first, so...
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:26 pm

I think that for aviation industry and all of us as customers sake I hope that B748F (i I suppose is dead by now), B787, B779, A339, A350, and of course A380 all become success stories in the end. Why? If engineers (I am one even I I work in IT business) shall be able to convince the "bean counters" that I shall be trusted with a new project and new investment i need to be able to show success stories.

If the aircraft industry starts showing project that do not pay back its investments we will see less frequent new projects going thru and more safe play in the industry.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:30 pm

travelhound wrote:
With Emirates already considering the 787 and some suggesting an order as an already done deal, we have antidote evidence that Emirates is and has been willing to change its business model to include smaller, more versatile aircraft.

As such a question revolves around the market that Emirates sees itself operating in over the next 10-20 years.

STC has already stated that LCC airlines likes of Norwegian have been undermining their ability to attract passengers from their traditional customer market base. As these airlines take delivery of 787’s, A350’s and A330NEO’s the impact to Emirates traditional business will only get worse.

…….and this is where the irony lies. Emirates was an airline that for the most part was able to undermine the business models of the established legacy carriers limiting their ability to use an aircraft the size of the A380. Today, the emerging LCC’s are doing, in part the same thing to Emirates.


And yet Mr Clark envisions a fleet of some 200 A380s at the new DWC airport. That might suggest any 787/A350 order would rather complement the EK business model, instead of completely changing it.
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olle
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:30 pm

By the way I see that Airbus has been able to play its game quit perfect.

it now has secured A380 until a the industry has one new generation engines done for the replacement cycle of the A380 around 2025. Well done.

In 2025 it will then have more efficient engines then both the A350 and the B779.
 
tjh8402
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:35 pm

kasimir wrote:

Nobody will argue with you that First, Business or E+ is better than economy, no matter what airline or ac type you are on. Please don’t take this as an offense, just a curious question... How do you manage to go through life in general? Ever been to a busy cinema, live concert or sports game or a shopping mall around the holidays or how do you deal with a big city? Ever been on one of those big cruise ships? I think there can be far worst places that can be experienced on a daily basis than a boarding area for an A380.

Anyway, I have also flown most widebody aircraft types out there in economy and have to say, regardless of the airline service, the A380 has given me the best experience. That very wide cabin and high ceilings not only gives a roomier environment, but it feels less claustrophobic. I can stand nearly normally in the window seat because there is so much headroom. I know, not everybody likes the A380 window seat, but I love it, because of the extra space and distance to the side wall.
And if you couldn’t get an eco seat on the upper level, try to get a seat in the last compartment in the lower level, because its the smallest of all of them and you will never know that there are 400 other people as well.

I think the worst widebody aircraft type when it comes to overall space, comfort and cramped feeling in Y is the 777 in a 3-4-3 config.

Anyway, if you ever plan to fly intercontinental, I think an E+ seat on the A380 should give you the best experience for what you might be able to afford.


No offense taken. As a matter of fact, I avoid some of those activities because of the crowds. In some case I tolerate them because the can event make it worth it (movies, concerts, and Motorsports events) but I always despise the crowds of people part of it, and will do things to mitigate that if possible (go to the movies at off hours or not opening weekend for example). I used to attend road racing regularly at Sebring International Raceway, and I almost enjoyed the vintage races more than the actual 12 Hours because the racetrack is virtually empty and I had it to myself.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting reply from a person who usually cautions us to not get ahead of events...


Interesting reply from a person who usually points out to discuss the topic instead of the user.

To clarify, I have been very clear it may not be a good idea to speculate about persons when investigations have not been completed (referring to the latest topic about Mr Enders). Because speculation could potentially damage a good name, and in my opinion people should not do such thing towards each other.

Speculation about aircraft cannot do any harm because the metal itself wouldn't care. I have been speculating about aircraft future for many years.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
parapente
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:00 pm

Re above -first retirements in 2020 a i.e. A 12 year lease period.From memory their first a/c was back end of 2018 so as you say 2 years.Now at the mo'Airbus are also manufacturing for Quatar,Singapore and ANA but other/after than that its Emirates.
So over that 2 year period perhaps half (8) will go to Emirates.And I think they have a couple stored.Does that suggest that their total fleet will top out at 110?
But also the early deliveries of 380's were to a wide range of customers so Emirates a/c won't be coming off lease in big numbers for about 4 years.If the fleet becomes static at circa 110 does that suggest quite a few stored 380's over this early period? Can't think what else could happen.
 
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Interesting reply from a person who usually cautions us to not get ahead of events...


Interesting reply from a person who usually points out to discuss the topic instead of the user.

To clarify, I have been very clear it may not be a good idea to speculate about persons when investigations have not been completed (referring to the latest topic about Mr Enders). Because speculation could potentially damage a good name, and in my opinion people should not do such thing towards each other.

Speculation about aircraft cannot do any harm because the metal itself wouldn't care. I have been speculating about aircraft future for many years.

Yes, I should such personalization. My bad.

I feel some sort of EK order is coming but am not sure of the size, and IMHO we can wait a few days and know the actual size before we weigh the impact. However any order will have a positive effect.

I don't think repeating press reports from named sources about a public figure is damaging a good name. Maybe I have too much exposure to the US media but when the public figures speak they all say that dealing with accusations is a part of being a public figure.
The gun is NOT a precious symbol of freedom
It is a deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence
 
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DWC
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:18 pm

Eyad89 wrote:
Well, Macron was in UAE just know. He managed to get UAE to buy a couple of French military ships. Is it possible that he even pushed EK to get those 30+ A380s? timing is just too convenient.

French public radio just broadcasted negociations over 20 frames, "pas de fumée sans feu" ( no smoke without fire ), the A380s are on French turf so between that, Reuters, Macron, STC & Airbus' own leaks, "les carottes sont cuites", the deal is more than just in the pipe line.

olle wrote:
By the way I see that Airbus has been able to play its game quit perfect.
it now has secured A380 until a the industry has one new generation engines done for the replacement cycle of the A380 around 2025. Well done.
In 2025 it will then have more efficient engines then both the A350 and the B779.

Even the whole line-up is now impressive, from the CSeries at one end & the A380 at the other extreme...
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Airbus Working With Emirates on New Order for Flagship A380

Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:27 pm

Comfort really is a bit off topic but I'll weigh in anyway. Some 18 inch seat placements can be more comfortable than others. Think a holiday meal at home. You have 8 comfortable good seats around the table, when suddenly a worthy guest family appears. You add 4 more identical chairs around the table and continue with a great celebration. But it is crowded. The 380 because of constraints of pressurizing a hull, regulations about how many seats between you and the aisle, required emergency exits, some other spare room to make the toilets just a little bigger, aisles which are not so much of a hassle to exit or get to the loo - all of this makes for comfort. In a plane persons talking loudly and continuously bother me far more than the plane noise, so on that criteria the 380s quietness is a minus.
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