El Al 001
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Posts: 978
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El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:54 pm

Hello everyone!

Fresh & hot news from El Al!
Starting from 31st of March, El Al Israel Airlines will offer 3 weekly flights between YYZ and LAX.

The flights will be operated by 777s untill summer, then, another weekly flight will be added and all 4 flights will be operated by 744s.

Schedules for the flights are (On Sun, Tue & Thu):

LY105 YYZ-LAX 08:40-10:45 777
LY106 LAX-YYZ 12:55-20:45 777

LY would be the only airline to offer a 3 classes service on this route; 1st with flat beds, Platinum with sleeper seats and Economy with PTV.

This is really good! anyway, finally YYZ gets a 777 on a regular basis and LAX gets rid of the 762....

Michael Smile
 
bobcat
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:09 am

Michael,

That's great news! Where did you see this? I searched on El Al's website but didn't find anything...  Sad

Next time I fly NYC to LAX, I'm not going nonstop anymore... I'll fly NYC-YYZ and connecto to El Al's YYZ-LAX!!!  Big grin
But I wonder how much connection time at YYZ should I plan on... It must take a long time to get on a El Al flight, especially one that's flying within North America!
 
Marco
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:11 am

Hey,

YYZ already gets scheduled 777 service. BA flies two daily 777's. In the summer they will upgrade one of the flights to a B744!

Anyways LY will also be competing with AA's second daily flight which is supposed to start. LY sounds like a better choice to me with the 777.  Smile

Regards
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 1:21 am

Hmm, the flights are NOT listed in amadeus.
Daniel Smile
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:34 am

Hey thats great news, I might be interested in taking a flight with El Al to LAX, but again the concern is about how long the checkin and security process will take.
 
polaris
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:31 am

I know that they will be stopping in Toronto on their way to LA but where did you get the info on the Fifth Freedom rights? Bilaterals are one of my areas of interest and I have seen nothing yet.

Any official info would be appreciated. I would also be interested in knowing what Canada got in return for these rights - if they were granted.
 
El Al 001
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:23 am

Hey!

The info is available at any resevation system, try searching from April 7, there are a few changes in the schedules of the flights a week before because of Passover (Pessach)....

It seem as if most of April flights are already booked... Smile

And I'm very glad that you all like it Smile

Polaris, U.S and Israel signed a new aviation agreement not long ago, enabling LY to operate flights between U.S and Canada, as for Canada, Air Canada 'won' its war against LY 2 years ago regarding slots issues at TLV, this is LY revenge...

BTW, UA will offer seats on LH's FRA-TLV route starting March 1st, but it wont have 5th freedom rights...

Michael
 
polaris
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:47 am

Thank you for the info.

I knew that Canada and Israel were in talks about some of the terms of their bilateral. I still have not been able to find the actual new agreements. I do, however, have a copy of the bilateral before these changes.
 
LY744
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:12 am

Wait till Slawko sees this!  Big thumbs up

Anyways, great news, especially the part about the 744's coming back to YYZ.  Smile

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
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yyz717
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:45 am

3x weekly YYZ-LAX service by LY is hardly going to impact AC much. Also, if you are a business traveller, you won't likely fly LY to LAX: being at the tail end of a TLV-YYZ flight...it's ontime record likely won't be great, not to mention excessive security (not for LY perhaps, but for a YYZ-LAX flight that happens to be on LY, yes).

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
AWspicious
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:51 pm

Another triple seven at YYZ - Cool! I really do like El Al's livery. Untill lastnight, one of their 777's graced my desktop.
I'm impressed with El Al's confidence in YYZ's security measures. Let's hope nothing goes wrong in that respect. Aviation is my passion and I'd hate for anyone to mess with my passion.... any more than they already have.

aw
Nevermind political correctness - Envision using your turn signals!
 
Guest

RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:13 pm

I agree with Yyz717. I wonder why the Israeli airline even wanted the 5th freedom rights. anyone know?
 
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yyz717
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 2:32 pm

I think I know why. There is a signif market for EL AL in LAX...but you can't fly TLV-LAX nonstop....so you have to refuel somewhere....if LY refuels in JFK, they would have no local pax rights on JFK-LAX.....at least with YYZ-LAX, they have some oppy to pick up some local traffic. They'll need to advertise though.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
elal106
Posts: 939
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 3:40 pm

LY106!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They better have good service when they bring on the 777s here again!!!! Doubt my uncle will fly these routes as not enough time to rest...(they give the minimum requirement of hours to stay for these routes)
 
El Al 001
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Tue Feb 26, 2002 4:44 pm

LY used to operate a daily flight to LAX via JFK, the JFK-LAX leg used to be operated by NAA.
Since Sep11 the U.S made a hard time to LY regarding this operation, pax which came from TLV had to go under another check-in at JFK and all the cargo had to be checked once again before loading was made on the 738.
This had led to many delays in flights, a thing which was not acceptable.
LY came to the decision that only a direct operation will solve the problem, so the airline decided on starting a direct operation by its own 762, LAX via YYZ.

LY is looking for extra revenues, and it came in mind that since 35%-40% of the pax are headed to YYZ, LY can offer the extra seats between YYZ and LAX to other pax. LY has really nothing to lose from this.

It wasnt done in order to make an impact on AC, LY will offer only 3-4 flights a week Vs. AC's 28 flights, this can not cause any impact, but it WILL give LY more revenues from this operation, LY would also offer a great Cargo capability between YYZ and LAX.

And btw, TLV-LAX nontop IS possible, the demand is the key.

It seems like some of you forgot why 5th freedom rights were made at all.... Does SQ flights between FRA and JFK make such an impact on LH??? maybe... but it is very proftible for SQ... (and this is only one example out of many...)
I can not find any damage to LY by this. But maybe I dont see the whole picture... Do I?!

Michael

 
Guest

RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 1:34 am

And btw, TLV-LAX nontop IS possible, the demand is the key.

- There are (sometimes) LAX-TLV nonstops; how is the demand lower on the other direction?
 
Mitchell Gant
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:03 am

Will pax on the local YYZ-LAX leg be subjected to the standard El Al security proceedures? Seems to me this would be uncompetitive if you have to check in 4 hours ahead of time on LY vs. 2 on AC.
 
El Al 001
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:16 am

And when does LY make it nonstop? at summer.
Because at summer there IS a demand.
Israelis start their trip in NYC and end it in California...!

Fact is, in summer of 1996 LY's 105 was nonstop to LAX... scheduled time was 15 hours vs. 13:50 on the way back.

Michael
 
El Al 001
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:20 am

Check-in time for LY flights is 2 hours. Not 4.
And can I promise you that even if you arrive the check-in area 45 min before the flight you wont have a problem... but I wouldnt recommand on doing it, though.

Michael
 
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yyz717
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:03 am

I would imagine the same EL AL security measures would apply on YYZ-LAX. If not, this flight could become a target.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
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eta unknown
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 3:09 pm

I dispute the comment about not having a problem checking in for El Al 45 minutes prior to departure, with baggage. I see a very big problem!
 
Guest

RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 5:33 pm

I checked in 1 hour before take-off in GVA, instead of 2h15, and there were a lot of other El-Al pax at the counters...Then, as we had to identify our bags and to open them (first time in GVA), the flight had a 30 min delay. If everybody had come to the airport as required, there would have been no delay...


 
El Al 001
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RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:16 pm

David, I've been in MANY LY stations around the world, including GVA (you know that Big grin), and it was the only place where baggage identify...

Check-in time for LY flights is not a big deal, as long you arrive to the airport before the flight nothing will happen... (in most cases) if you look sespicious then you might have a problem....

Michael
 
Guest

RE: El Al Gets 5th Freedom On YYZ-LAX-YYZ!

Wed Feb 27, 2002 10:21 pm

In GVA, we always had to identify the bags; now the airport has a very advanced security system allowing to control 100% of the luggage; there are 8 huge Heimann-Siemens machines, but I've read that "some airlines don't want them" to be used...
Everytime I flew through ZRH, we also had to identify the luggage, and even to open it to be sure nothing had been added...I remember that once we checked everything was OK, 2 airport employees took the bags and put them outside directly in a container; BTW, I didn't see any LY employee around that container...which was then loaded in the Jumbo's belly.

Is Switzerland more special than other places?..

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