zakuivcustom
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Delta Shuttle Question

Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:25 pm

(Don't know if this has been discussed yet or not).

So, I was looking at Delta Shuttle operation, but found that the West Coast service (LAX-SFO/LAX-SEA/SFO-SEA) are no longer listed under the "Delta Shuttle" page:

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... uttle.html

The former West Coast Shuttle page is now 404:

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... uttle.html

Any idea as to when this started? I was not able to find much info.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:01 am

It looks like they are no longer listing LAX-SFO, SEA-SFO/LAX as DL Shuttle on the flight schedule. Interestingly, On September 1, 2018, LGA-ORD also stops being listed as Delta Shuttle. However, there does not appear to be a change in frequency or aircraft size.

This was within the past few days because I was just looking at LAX-SFO flights and they were listed as DL Shuttle. Most recent archive on wayback was from September 23, and it was still there: https://web.archive.org/web/20170425075 ... ttle.html/. This is a very recent change.
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jbs2886
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:17 am

cvgComair wrote:
It looks like they are no longer listing LAX-SFO, SEA-SFO/LAX as DL Shuttle on the flight schedule. Interestingly, On September 1, 2018, LGA-ORD also stops being listed as Delta Shuttle. However, there does not appear to be a change in frequency or aircraft size.

This was within the past few days because I was just looking at LAX-SFO flights and they were listed as DL Shuttle. Most recent archive on wayback was from September 23, and it was still there: https://web.archive.org/web/20170425075 ... ttle.html/. This is a very recent change.


Check the DL website after updates tomorrow and Enrilas thread on sunday, this could be a precursor to changes.

Interesting catch.
 
jfern022
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:22 am

Internally, as late as 11/02/2017, they are still listing the West Coast and ORD as shuttle service. Might be a website snafu.
 
Flightguy123
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:26 am

Just worked a LAX-SEA flight two days ago, it is still marketed as a shuttle route. Not sure why the website isnt reflecting that
 
mandargb
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:34 am

I am scheduled to fly the west coast "shuttle" route. And I got informed from delta saying flight has changed. This has happened twice in last few weeks.
First change from E175 to B717 with different flight number.
Second one from B717 to B717, but with different another flight number but timing change by few minutes.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:35 am

jfern022 wrote:
Internally, as late as 11/02/2017, they are still listing the West Coast and ORD as shuttle service. Might be a website snafu.


Not sure about that. Used to have a "Northeast Route" half and a "West Coast Route" half on the "main" Shuttle page (1st Link), but it's no longer there. That and if it's really just a website snafu, I doubt I'll get a 404 on the West Coast Shuttle page.

On the other hand, ORD is still there on the website, at least.

P.S. Anyone know if there are any service changes (i.e. no more Delta Shuttle "perks")? As cvgComair said, frequency and time remain the same on the west coast routes.

EDIT:
Just notice the "old" Northeast shuttle page:
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... uttle.html

Is also now a 404 (Dead link). The page is the same as the current Delta Shuttle "main" page, though.
 
yvphx
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:02 am

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what exactly is a "Delta Shuttle?"
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 am

yvphx wrote:
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what exactly is a "Delta Shuttle?"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Shuttle
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:53 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
On the other hand, ORD is still there on the website, at least.

ORD-LGA stops on September 1, 2018, so it is still scheduled for the meantime.
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N644US
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:03 am

I have a feeling that this is more due to some sort of website upgrade... if you look at Delta Cargo's website (https://www.deltacargo.com/Cargo/#/), you see a completely revamped website. And some aspects of delta.com (like the flight status page) already reflect a new website design. Perhaps they're just taking things town temporarily so they can prepare to change their website design.
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USAirKid
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:37 am

N644US wrote:
I have a feeling that this is more due to some sort of website upgrade... if you look at Delta Cargo's website (https://www.deltacargo.com/Cargo/#/), you see a completely revamped website. And some aspects of delta.com (like the flight status page) already reflect a new website design. Perhaps they're just taking things town temporarily so they can prepare to change their website design.


Thats not usually how website changes work in the corporate world. Generally you prepare the new site on a staging/testing server that is internal, and once it has been tested, etc it gets pushed over to the live site. So given that the shuttle page is now just showing the northeast shuttle, which required preparing new graphics (The hero image for the current page is a different dimension than the dual hero image of the page from September 10th.) its not likely that it'll be coming back.

If Delta isn't seeing enough of a premium to put the Shuttle service and branding on flights out of SEA, is this a win for Alaska in Seattle?
 
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LoftleidirDC8
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 am

DL is leaving the Marine Terminal at LGA and moving those former shuttle flights to the main terminal. That may account for the changes to the branding.
 
catiii
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:35 am

LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
DL is leaving the Marine Terminal at LGA and moving those former shuttle flights to the main terminal. That may account for the changes to the branding.


That's my thought. As of 12/8 they're out of the MAT
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....
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Shields
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Somewhat unrelated but is anyone else frustrated with the changes to Delta's website? Using the new flight schedule page, it is impossible to ascertain equipment type without clicking individually on each listed flight.

Is there a way around this (esp. for Mac users)???
 
Capn
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:39 pm

I agree it sure makes it harder to check out flts quickly.
Would like to know if there is another way for windows on a Surface also.
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obelau24
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:33 pm

Slightly off-topic but I wish Delta would increase frequency between SEA and SFO - their offering is pitiful compared to Alaska (absolutely not worthy of a “shuttle” title) and the times are very inconvenient for a day or even weekend trip. I’d love to see an early morning 6/7am and a late night 10pm in both directions.

Back on topic, I suppose it’s true no one is booking Delta for a free beer, but I really can’t imagine giving away a few beers or wines per flight is that much of an expense; instead, it does set them apart from the competition which is vicious LA-Bay Area. If even one person per flight was swayed by a free drink or snack box, that’s critical (though simplistic, I know) progress in gaining market share.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:54 pm

Shields wrote:
Somewhat unrelated but is anyone else frustrated with the changes to Delta's website? Using the new flight schedule page, it is impossible to ascertain equipment type without clicking individually on each listed flight.

Is there a way around this (esp. for Mac users)???


I left them a website complaint about this a week ago. Usability is out the door in favor of 'beautification'.

Just 5-10 years ago, all the US majors had nice, simple desktop timetables that would show everything you needed at a glance. Alas, now most online schedules have to be dug through to find the info we avgeeks are looking for.
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devron
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:13 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
yvphx wrote:
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what exactly is a "Delta Shuttle?"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Shuttle



I had the same question and indeed I did look at wiki before posting. Still what is the difference to normal delta flight expect that it is hourly? Is a free beer something that is normally not offered? Is there a marketing advantage?
 
ty97
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:24 pm

catiii wrote:
LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
DL is leaving the Marine Terminal at LGA and moving those former shuttle flights to the main terminal. That may account for the changes to the branding.


That's my thought. As of 12/8 they're out of the MAT


LGA-BOS left MAT for Terminal C, what, 2 years ago? It still has the shuttle branding. I don't think the terminal move plays in. There's no rule that flights in C can't have shuttle branding nor rules that flights in MAT must have shuttle branding. They could have dropped branding from ORD and left flights in MAT just as easily, if that was their goal.
 
questions
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:43 pm

The “Shuttle” service branding is obviously on the way out. Over the years the business model and product have changed significantly. Delta can now drop “Shuttle” and simply market something along the lines of “Frequent flights between [point A] and [point B].”

On the US west coast, the Delta Shuttle concept was just a gimmick for market introduction and build up — i.e., let’s provide a little more (sign over terminal door, newspapers at gate, upgraded snack onboard) to make them feel like they’re getting a lot more. Now that Delta has a more significant presence on the west coast all flights can be marketed the same.

Similarly, the East Coast Shuttle has outlived its time and can now be marketed as all other Delta flights and with an emphasis on frequency between select markets. The customer no longer cares about “Shuttle” service and knows there is little to no product differentiation — i.e., it’s all the same.

Delta simplifies its marketing, some expenses are applied to other initiatives and resources move on to another tactic in Delta’s strategy.
 
727LOVER
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:49 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
yvphx wrote:
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what exactly is a "Delta Shuttle?"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Shuttle


Trust me.....not the true intended original meaning.




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zakuivcustom
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:36 pm

devron wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
yvphx wrote:
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but what exactly is a "Delta Shuttle?"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Shuttle



I had the same question and indeed I did look at wiki before posting. Still what is the difference to normal delta flight expect that it is hourly? Is a free beer something that is normally not offered? Is there a marketing advantage?


I believe there's also dedicated check-in line and expedited security. Well, newspaper and magazine in the waiting area (at least for NE Shuttles). Other than that, the service is not a lot different. There's also used to be a dedicated fleet just for those Shuttle flights (Both DL and US/AA). Not sure about now.
 
drdisque
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:32 pm

The east coast DL shuttle aircraft rotate on and off of shuttle duty. They have to do so after a BOS flight so that they are at C or D so they don't have to tow over from the MAT. Flights into the MAT obviously almost always turn to another shuttle flight. ORD flights for awhile could also turn to DTW but now I don't think Republic E-jets operate ORD-DTW anymore.

West Coast shuttle flights can turn to any other Republic-operated DLX destination at LAX or SEA.
 
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ua900
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:04 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
devron wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:



I had the same question and indeed I did look at wiki before posting. Still what is the difference to normal delta flight expect that it is hourly? Is a free beer something that is normally not offered? Is there a marketing advantage?


Other than that, the service is not a lot different.


You forget about free booze and snacks (bagels etc) in coach. Free alcohol isn't normally offered by the US 3 in economy domestic routes outside of transcontinental premium service routes.
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cschleic
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:22 pm

questions wrote:
The “Shuttle” service branding is obviously on the way out. Over the years the business model and product have changed significantly. Delta can now drop “Shuttle” and simply market something along the lines of “Frequent flights between [point A] and [point B].”

On the US west coast, the Delta Shuttle concept was just a gimmick for market introduction and build up — i.e., let’s provide a little more (sign over terminal door, newspapers at gate, upgraded snack onboard) to make them feel like they’re getting a lot more. Now that Delta has a more significant presence on the west coast all flights can be marketed the same.

Similarly, the East Coast Shuttle has outlived its time and can now be marketed as all other Delta flights and with an emphasis on frequency between select markets. The customer no longer cares about “Shuttle” service and knows there is little to no product differentiation — i.e., it’s all the same.

Delta simplifies its marketing, some expenses are applied to other initiatives and resources move on to another tactic in Delta’s strategy.


This seems to summarize it. Lots of markets seem to have hourly or near-hourly service besides those discussed in this thread. Unless there's something to really differentiate it, the term doesn't have any meaning. Didn't the original concept involve dedicates planes, no reservations, walk-up service and extra planes available so you never had to worry about not getting on a particular flight? Not to say that that kind of thing would or should exist now but simply having a lot of scheduled flights for a route simply means....the airline has a lot of flights on a given day.
 
questions
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:41 pm

cschleic wrote:
Didn't the original concept involve dedicates planes, no reservations, walk-up service and extra planes available so you never had to worry about not getting on a particular flight? Not to say that that kind of thing would or should exist now but simply having a lot of scheduled flights for a route simply means....the airline has a lot of flights on a given day.


The original Northeast Pan Am and Eastern Shuttles flew between BOS - LGA - DCA. They were highly profitable (or at least were thought to be).

- Dedicated fleet
- Single class of service, economy, with 36” seat pitch
- No assigned seating, no boarding by zones
- Hourly service
- No reservations required; just walk up to counter (one or both may have had pay on board for ticket)
- If there was more demand than seats, a standby aircraft would be used vs denying boarding
- Complimentary alcohol on board (or at least beer and wine)

Very simple business model. Think of it as operating as an airline within an airline.

Today all that remains is hourly-ish service, upgraded snacks and complimentary alcohol. Other than that it’s a standard flight on a two class aircraft.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:23 am

drdisque wrote:
The east coast DL shuttle aircraft rotate on and off of shuttle duty. They have to do so after a BOS flight so that they are at C or D so they don't have to tow over from the MAT. Flights into the MAT obviously almost always turn to another shuttle flight. ORD flights for awhile could also turn to DTW but now I don't think Republic E-jets operate ORD-DTW anymore.

West Coast shuttle flights can turn to any other Republic-operated DLX destination at LAX or SEA.


YX doesn't operate on the west coast for Delta. 175 operations on the west coast are either Compass or Skywest.
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drdisque
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:44 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
drdisque wrote:
The east coast DL shuttle aircraft rotate on and off of shuttle duty. They have to do so after a BOS flight so that they are at C or D so they don't have to tow over from the MAT. Flights into the MAT obviously almost always turn to another shuttle flight. ORD flights for awhile could also turn to DTW but now I don't think Republic E-jets operate ORD-DTW anymore.

West Coast shuttle flights can turn to any other Republic-operated DLX destination at LAX or SEA.


YX doesn't operate on the west coast for Delta. 175 operations on the west coast are either Compass or Skywest.


Sorry, I meant that any West Coast shuttle flight could turn to any other DLX destination operated by the same carrier at SEA or LAX.
 
bohica
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:48 am

questions wrote:
No reservations required; just walk up to counter


In the early days of the EA shuttle not only were reservations not required, they were not accepted. Also you didn't even need to go to the ticket counter. Just get on the plane. The flight attendants were also "conductors" collecting the fares during the flight.
 
commavia
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:45 pm

Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.

Sancho99504 wrote:
Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....


Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:05 pm

commavia wrote:
Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.

Sancho99504 wrote:
Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....


Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.


I tend to agree with SEA-SFO/LAX as "shuttle" more as marketing than real "shuttle". I mean, the schedule itself is not much different than a regular flights between two airports (Non-hourly/bi-hourly), nor the frequency really "shuttle" like (I mean, 8/day?). LAX-SFO is somewhat more "shuttle" like, but there are also a ton more competition, including WN (There's also VX/AS), on that route. (Personally not sure about yield either, RT ticket next month is USD80, compare to USD130 on the LGA-BOS/DCA routes, or worse, those USD200+ tickets between Dallas and Houston).
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:25 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
commavia wrote:
Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.

Sancho99504 wrote:
Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....


Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.


I tend to agree with SEA-SFO/LAX as "shuttle" more as marketing than real "shuttle". I mean, the schedule itself is not much different than a regular flights between two airports (Non-hourly/bi-hourly), nor the frequency really "shuttle" like (I mean, 8/day?). LAX-SFO is somewhat more "shuttle" like, but there are also a ton more competition, including WN (There's also VX/AS), on that route. (Personally not sure about yield either, RT ticket next month is USD80, compare to USD130 on the LGA-BOS/DCA routes, or worse, those USD200+ tickets between Dallas and Houston).


Yeah, I can't speak for the whole operation, but I've seen fares for $68 RT on DL to LAX. SFO fares are slightly higher.

Another part of the equation is that it was taking up check in space that will now be used for AM, VS and AF next year. The real estate guy for DL was in town recently and that was one of the things discussed.
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USAirKid
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:09 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
Another part of the equation is that it was taking up check in space that will now be used for AM, VS and AF next year. The real estate guy for DL was in town recently and that was one of the things discussed.


Is DL going to get the old VX check in space at SEA? It almost seems like its part of the DL operation already from its alignment etc.
 
evank516
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:24 pm

commavia wrote:
Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.

Sancho99504 wrote:
Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....


Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.


I find that interesting that ORD will be added to the AA "Shuttle". Especially since DL operates Shuttle-like frequencies on LGA-ATL but they never included it as Delta "Shuttle".
 
commavia
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:34 pm

evank516 wrote:
I find that interesting that ORD will be added to the AA "Shuttle". Especially since DL operates Shuttle-like frequencies on LGA-ATL but they never included it as Delta "Shuttle".


True, but again, it's more a branding exercise than a reflection of practical, operational reality, anyway - for both airlines. There are numerous routes in Delta's system that operate with hourly or near-hourly "shuttle" schedules (e.g., ATL-LGA, ATL-DCA, ATL-MCO, etc.) and the same for AA (DFW-LAX, PHL-BOS, CLT-LGA) and yet don't actually carry the explicit "Shuttle" branding.
 
evank516
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:37 pm

commavia wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I find that interesting that ORD will be added to the AA "Shuttle". Especially since DL operates Shuttle-like frequencies on LGA-ATL but they never included it as Delta "Shuttle".


True, but again, it's more a branding exercise than a reflection of practical, operational reality, anyway - for both airlines. There are numerous routes in Delta's system that operate with hourly or near-hourly "shuttle" schedules (e.g., ATL-LGA, ATL-DCA, ATL-MCO, etc.) and the same for AA (DFW-LAX, PHL-BOS, CLT-LGA) and yet don't actually carry the explicit "Shuttle" branding.


I don't disagree. I was more perplexed because even a.netters have referred to DL's LGA-ATL flights as a "Shuttle". Never had the branding, but it made sense since DL's Shuttle product was LGA based. AA's (formerly US) Shuttle product actually flew the full triangle. If you notice AA Branded BOS-DCA as the Shuttle as well, but DL didn't. In fact, DL doesn't even fly BOS-DCA anymore.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:42 pm

evank516 wrote:
commavia wrote:
Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.

Sancho99504 wrote:
Word in Seattle is that it's just a marketing change to cut some costs since nobody else running SEA-SFO/LAX is giving away what DL is. Most business pax in the market are traveling on time of departure rather than on who's giving free beer. A lot of the other pax are traveling on dirt cheap fares. Heck, last month I bought a RT SEA-LAX first class ticket 45 minutes before departure for $218....


Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.


I find that interesting that ORD will be added to the AA "Shuttle". Especially since DL operates Shuttle-like frequencies on LGA-ATL but they never included it as Delta "Shuttle".


Shuttle is meant to appeal to business travelers looking for the "enhanced" experience, high frequency, flexibility (buying a ticket at the airport), and to a lesser extent short flight segments. LGA-ATL is a trunk route that most likely has a lot of VFR and leisure passengers. There is also little competition on that route that DL worries about. On BOS-NYC-DCA they compete with AA, UA, B6, Amtrak Acela, and bus fares that are as low as $15 (or simply driving). Competition is much more fierce.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a looong way to go!
 
Capn
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:41 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
commavia wrote:
Regarding ORD specifically - if Delta is removing its "Shuttle" branding from ORD, that would be interesting given that AA is apparently going to be expanding its "Shuttle" branding to ORD in the near future.



Makes sense, and not surprising. Putting the "Shuttle" moniker on the LAX/SFO/SEA triangle is a flashy branding exercise for Delta, but given the intensity of competition, and level of competitor capacity and frequency, in these markets, I'm not sure it really makes economic sense. The whole point of this branding, and the elevated product offerings, etc., would presumably be to drive a structural, sustainable yield premium to all of those competitors. And I'm not sure that's actually happening in practice.


I tend to agree with SEA-SFO/LAX as "shuttle" more as marketing than real "shuttle". I mean, the schedule itself is not much different than a regular flights between two airports (Non-hourly/bi-hourly), nor the frequency really "shuttle" like (I mean, 8/day?). LAX-SFO is somewhat more "shuttle" like, but there are also a ton more competition, including WN (There's also VX/AS), on that route. (Personally not sure about yield either, RT ticket next month is USD80, compare to USD130 on the LGA-BOS/DCA routes, or worse, those USD200+ tickets between Dallas and Houston).


Yeah, I can't speak for the whole operation, but I've seen fares for $68 RT on DL to LAX. SFO fares are slightly higher.

Another part of the equation is that it was taking up check in space that will now be used for AM, VS and AF next year. The real estate guy for DL was in town recently and that was one of the things discussed.

Did the DL real estate guy mention anything about the current DL gate situation and what they will have after the IAB expansion?
Thanks
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:49 pm

Capn wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:

I tend to agree with SEA-SFO/LAX as "shuttle" more as marketing than real "shuttle". I mean, the schedule itself is not much different than a regular flights between two airports (Non-hourly/bi-hourly), nor the frequency really "shuttle" like (I mean, 8/day?). LAX-SFO is somewhat more "shuttle" like, but there are also a ton more competition, including WN (There's also VX/AS), on that route. (Personally not sure about yield either, RT ticket next month is USD80, compare to USD130 on the LGA-BOS/DCA routes, or worse, those USD200+ tickets between Dallas and Houston).


Yeah, I can't speak for the whole operation, but I've seen fares for $68 RT on DL to LAX. SFO fares are slightly higher.

Another part of the equation is that it was taking up check in space that will now be used for AM, VS and AF next year. The real estate guy for DL was in town recently and that was one of the things discussed.

Did the DL real estate guy mention anything about the current DL gate situation and what they will have after the IAB expansion?
Thanks


Should occupy A and B once open
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Capn
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:55 pm

Where would SW, and others go?
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:29 am

USAirKid wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
Another part of the equation is that it was taking up check in space that will now be used for AM, VS and AF next year. The real estate guy for DL was in town recently and that was one of the things discussed.


Is DL going to get the old VX check in space at SEA? It almost seems like its part of the DL operation already from its alignment etc.


That's the hope. As the Port likes to tell everyone, it's up for bid whenever AS finally integrates VX into their computers and they move a few counters north. It's really a pain in the rear having VX get busy and cutting of Sky Priority north from the rest of the operation and having to share the belt with them. It isn't bad when they're desk is closed. Fingers crossed
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:35 am

Capn wrote:
Where would SW, and others go?


With WN becoming stagnant at SEA, the small F9 operation, 4 gates that UA uses on A, they should be able to all fit in S as DL would be vacating it. B6 would also be at S, while AF, AM and VS would use A. There are also rumors that DL will be taking over ground handling of KE with them moving to A.
I know A12 and A13 can take up to 77E and we've parked 76T/L down on A3 and A4, but I don't know if they can take 77W....
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:40 am

FSDan wrote:
Shields wrote:
Somewhat unrelated but is anyone else frustrated with the changes to Delta's website? Using the new flight schedule page, it is impossible to ascertain equipment type without clicking individually on each listed flight.

Is there a way around this (esp. for Mac users)???


I left them a website complaint about this a week ago. Usability is out the door in favor of 'beautification'.

Just 5-10 years ago, all the US majors had nice, simple desktop timetables that would show everything you needed at a glance. Alas, now most online schedules have to be dug through to find the info we avgeeks are looking for.


I would love to be able to have a simple timetable to use again. I spent 2 hours today trying to find some 757 rotations on AA for Christmas day and all I could find was a lone PHX-PHL and a PHL-CLT flight......irritating
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Capn
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:34 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
Capn wrote:
Where would SW, and others go?


With WN becoming stagnant at SEA, the small F9 operation, 4 gates that UA uses on A, they should be able to all fit in S as DL would be vacating it. B6 would also be at S, while AF, AM and VS would use A. There are also rumors that DL will be taking over ground handling of KE with them moving to A.
I know A12 and A13 can take up to 77E and we've parked 76T/L down on A3 and A4, but I don't know if they can take 77W....

Three more questions please. How many more gates does DL get on B? How many on A after the IAB remodel?
Will there be a net loss after moving out S or gain?
I know I have been off subject, but no one was adding anything anyway.
Thanks
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:47 am

Capn wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
Capn wrote:
Where would SW, and others go?


With WN becoming stagnant at SEA, the small F9 operation, 4 gates that UA uses on A, they should be able to all fit in S as DL would be vacating it. B6 would also be at S, while AF, AM and VS would use A. There are also rumors that DL will be taking over ground handling of KE with them moving to A.
I know A12 and A13 can take up to 77E and we've parked 76T/L down on A3 and A4, but I don't know if they can take 77W....

Three more questions please. How many more gates does DL get on B? How many on A after the IAB remodel?
Will there be a net loss after moving out S or gain?
I know I have been off subject, but no one was adding anything anyway.
Thanks

14 gates on A and 15 on B, which will all be Delta gates, not CUTE. Currently, Delta has B1, 3, 5, 5a, 7, 7a, 9, 11 and some times 15, A1-4, S1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, sometimes 11, 15 and 16. Share A12 and 13 plus D4. Definitely a net gain. Delta has priority use on most of those gates, but when IAB opens, they'll be the primary on A and B, much like Alaska has C and N.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Capn
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:14 pm

Re: Delta Shuttle Question

Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:39 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
Capn wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:

With WN becoming stagnant at SEA, the small F9 operation, 4 gates that UA uses on A, they should be able to all fit in S as DL would be vacating it. B6 would also be at S, while AF, AM and VS would use A. There are also rumors that DL will be taking over ground handling of KE with them moving to A.
I know A12 and A13 can take up to 77E and we've parked 76T/L down on A3 and A4, but I don't know if they can take 77W....

Three more questions please. How many more gates does DL get on B? How many on A after the IAB remodel?
Will there be a net loss after moving out S or gain?
I know I have been off subject, but no one was adding anything anyway.
Thanks

14 gates on A and 15 on B, which will all be Delta gates, not CUTE. Currently, Delta has B1, 3, 5, 5a, 7, 7a, 9, 11 and some times 15, A1-4, S1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, sometimes 11, 15 and 16. Share A12 and 13 plus D4. Definitely a net gain. Delta has priority use on most of those gates, but when IAB opens, they'll be the primary on A and B, much like Alaska has C and N.

Thank you Sancho, that clears up a lot. Looks like + 7 exclusive DL gates for total 29.
Should allow for quite a bit of expansion.
UH-1 DEHAVILAND HERON MARTIN 404 DC-9 CHALLENGER 601 FALCON 50 & 900EX

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