tripple7
Posts: 510
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 1999 8:53 pm

KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Sun Aug 22, 1999 11:05 pm

Hi,

Just heard a rumour that KLM and NWA are going to cut back on transatlantic routes due to the fierce competition on this market.

I heard they are going to drop the Amsterdam Philadelpia and Oslo Minneapolis route this fall.
I was just wondering if there are any more routes dropped.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Sun Aug 22, 1999 11:24 pm

I think MSP-OSL is already confirmed. Don't know about the other.
The decision does beg the question as to whether it is just a lack of demand on the route, or whether potential customers find out it's NW on the route (with a 20 year old DC10) and find another way there. NW really needs to get itself a decent fleet and do something about its passenger service.

 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Sun Aug 22, 1999 11:31 pm

The passenger worrying about the 20 year old aircraft would not hold true to KLM. They operate new 747-400s, 767-300s and MD-11s.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
johnboy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Mon Aug 23, 1999 1:42 am

If I remember correctly, the Minneapolis-Oslo flights were not making any money, even though they were fairly full! What a strange world!
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Mon Aug 23, 1999 2:19 am

True, CX747, but the two routes being axed are NW operated (DC10s).

As for the profitability of the route, that's not too unusual, particularly on routes which would be predominantly tourist rather than business driven. Many people in Minnesota are of Scandinavian descent*, so the majority of people on the route would be tourists, possibly visiting relatives in Norway.

*
( indeed, you will find many NW people have Scandinavian names! - Soderlind, the name of a very famous NW pilot, is one that comes to mind)
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

NW Routes

Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:57 am

The PHL-AMS route is being dumped (confirmed on NWA.com) because there is not enough people who want to fly this route! It is not because the fleet is shabby or the service is bad! US Airways also dropped their PHL-AMS service because it couldn't cut it a few months ago. And that is for a hub airline.

Second, the MSP-OSL route is being dropped because it is only a seasonal route. NW doesn't figure American tourists would want to fly to Oslo in the winter, with its frigid weather.

Lastly, in response to Kaitak, NW has a fine fleet and is updating it. Correct me if I am wrong, but Northwest has the largest fleet of (new) Airbuses in the United States, which is only going to grow, because of the orders for 30 more 320s and 70 A319s. Plus, they took delivery of 5 new 744s and have more 757s on order.

Just my 0.02.
NWA Man
Create your own luck.
 
The777Man
Posts: 5912
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Mon Aug 23, 1999 2:07 pm

Hi NWA ManI actually have to correct you because you are wrong. United Airlines has the largest narrowbody Airbus fleet in the US (81) versus NW (72 at most). UA will eventually have 48 A319s and 85 A320s after all currently on order are delivered. UA may even order more of these. NW will eventually have 50 A319s and 70 A320s. UA 133 === NW 120 The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
Petrouchka
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:28 pm

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:45 pm

I'm afraid I have to disagree, Kaitak. I'm a consumer (passenger) not a personnel of any airline, and I have to say that the DC-10s are the nicest planes I've flown in. And both Northwest AND Continental still use a bunch of DC-10s, and keep them (from a passenger's perspective) in very good condition. Now, I'm not completely naive: I know some of what goes on "behind the scenes" as it were, but the DC-10 is still far more comfortable than the newer 757-200. Cramming 200+ people on a plane with ONE AISLE?!? What sub-genius thought up that idea?! (Forgive me, I recently was stuck on a 757 from MSP to SFO.)


Kaitak wrote:
-------------------------------
I think MSP-OSL is already confirmed. Don't know about the other.
The decision does beg the question as to whether it is just a lack of demand on the route, or whether potential customers find out it's NW on the route (with a 20 year old DC10) and find another way there. NW really needs to get itself a decent fleet and do something about its passenger service.

 
fsimmer
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 11:18 am

Norway - AMS

Tue Aug 24, 1999 12:35 am

I think there is too good connections between small norwgian cities and Amsterdam to run a OSL-MSP route. Today cities like Sandefjord, Kristiansand, Stavanger, Bergen and Oslo is connected to Amsterdam with a minimum of 3 flights a day from Sandefjord and Kristiansand and 5 flights a day from Stavanger and Bergen. I think most people living in other cities than Oslo prefer AMS as connection point much before OSL. And I would never go on a old Dc10, when I could connect in AMS and fly on 744 instead... I live in Stavanger, and difference in flight time between SVG-OSL and SVG-AMS is 20minutes only.
fsimmer
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: The777Man

Tue Aug 24, 1999 3:08 am

Actually, its Northwest 150, United 133. Don't believe me? Check out
http://news.airwise.com/stories/99/06/929640191.html
Sorry, I don't know how to put in the direct link.

NWA Man
Create your own luck.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8935
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: NW Routes

Tue Aug 24, 1999 3:58 am

Sorry NWA man, I didn't mean to cast a slur over the whole of the Northwest fleet. I am well aware that it has some very modern aircraft - 744s, 757s, Airbuses, but its transatlantic fleet and many trunk routes are still flown by elderly DC10s; even the Swissair -30s are not in the full flush of youth. It would want to think about replacing some of the 747-200s as well . . .
See "new topic" above.
 
The777Man
Posts: 5912
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Tue Aug 24, 1999 4:04 am

Hi NWA MAN!!I guess I'm wrong and you are right. I went by what's in JP Airline Fleets and I guess I missed the increased orders from NW. I do hope NW will get some 777s to replace their 742s. Nice to see that NW finally getting some more 744s.Take Care!!The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
asdf
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Tue Aug 24, 1999 4:44 am

Since it was mentioned, here's my opinion about Northwest's fleet.

I'll be happy to see those DC-9's go. I'd much rather fly in those new Airbuses. I'm dying to see, let alone fly the A319's. Keep the DC-10's for a little longer- they've been in surprisingly good condition.

 
a32
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 1999 5:18 pm

RE: KLM/NWA To Close Transatlantic Routes?

Tue Aug 24, 1999 3:08 pm

Just a general response to no one in particular.

Yes it is true that PHL-AMS and MSP-OSL will be history in october however it was not because of loads. The OSL flight was cancelled because the proposed codeshare tie up with Brathens was delayed indefinitely by the EU. Without the critical feed for the route the margins were very low. If Brathens is approved the route will resurface.
PHL-AMS was nixed because of the close proximity of that market to EWR and JFK. With a dumping of trans atlantic capacity from these 2 airports once again the margins are too low. For a long time the mantra at NWA appears to be that if a threshold yield is not achievable then get out of the market.
Regarding fleets...love the new interiors of the dc9, prefer the a320 seats, dc10 are getting the interior mods and are a welcome relief from flying single aisle aircraft across the pond...besides they are quieter than the boeings. And finally the youngest dc10 at NWA is a year younger than some md11's
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

The777Man

Wed Aug 25, 1999 12:09 am

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to see NWA in 777 colours any time soon. For a reason beyond me NWA has a long standing order for 16 A330-300s. I would like to know why they have had these orders for many a year now, but USAirways is now to be the North American launch customer for the 330, with Air Canada following shortly behind? Why do they keep delaying? For more obvious reasons TWA keeps delaying their order for 10 A330-300s.
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