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Cyow
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EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:42 pm

Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108
"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"
 
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jnev3289
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:07 pm

What kind of delivery schedule will these have?
 
MileHFL400
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:11 pm

Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108


And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
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jnev3289
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:21 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108


And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?

I'm assuming they think Boeing will be upset because Boeing tried to stop their sale to US carriers even though this is to an Egyptian carrier and Boeing wouldn't have cared one bit
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:29 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108


And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?

I'm assuming they think Boeing will be upset because Boeing tried to stop their sale to US carriers even though this is to an Egyptian carrier and Boeing wouldn't have cared one bit


Just goes to show how some people have no idea what they are talking about in their blind hate towards Boeing, haha.


Anyways congrats to MS, solid commitment that will
hopefully get firmed up, can’t wait to see other orders come to fruition.
 
runway23
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:31 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108


And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?


Clearly this is an order that was lost by the 737Max, the closest competitor to the CSeries...
 
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adamblang
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:42 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108


And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?

Presumably Cseries and Bombardier are supposed to be dead right now because of Boeing's attempting to kill Delta's Cseries order and thus Bombardier, but instead drove Bombardier to embrace Airbus, thus making Cseries more viable, resulting in this order. Boeings actions made Cseries more viable and increased the order book of a competitor.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
BlueSky1976
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:50 pm

Congratulations to EgyptAir for picking truly innovative product as their next-gen aircraft.

Boeing won't stop this one. And others.
Rule #1: Never trust your government. EVER.
Rule #2: In case of any doubt, see Rule #1.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:54 pm

Congratulations Bombardier and EgyptAir.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:56 pm

lol Boeing can only stop a single order guys, they don't have the power to kill an entire product line. Get over yourselves, they can't touch any non-US sale (of which there were almost none)
 
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yowza
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:04 pm

Interesting development but LOI's wouldn't really help me sleep at night if I was under pressure to sell.

Let's not forget that MS is 100% owned by the Egyptian government. A government that gets $1.3B-$1.5B a year in US military aid. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that MS could be steered away from BBD to... somewhere else.

YOWza
 
RalXWB
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:12 pm

Congratulations to Airbus and the C-Series...next stop: the 500 and 322 :white:
 
N415XJ
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:19 pm

I'm guessing these will be deployed to regional destinations? They seem perfect for flights to Beirut, Khartoum, Turkey, Cyprus, Baghdad, etc where A320s might be hard to fill up under certain circumstances. My question is- will they replace the E170s on domestic flights and the super-secret-but-not-so-secret Air Sinai route to Tel Aviv? E170->CS300 seems like a bit of a jump in capacity.
 
Bostrom
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:32 pm

This might be a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. How firm is a Letter of intent and can we expect it to turn into an order?
 
jeffrey0032j
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Cyow wrote:
Keep those orders coming! Poor Boeing. :rotfl:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/egyptai ... -1.4401108

Poor Boeing? They have got a larger order for a bigger plane during DAS. More cash than BBD can dream of at this stage. Poor Airbus, though, got shafted right at the start.
 
beaconinbound
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:09 pm

I am sooo tired of this anti-Boeing stuff here. And on other occasions this anti-A stuff also. Please avoid these sentiments on posting on this forum - at least if you want to keep a (kind of) professional attitude.

I see the current C-Series orders slightly different: The Airbus-Bombardier deal obviously fosters some orders which had been in the pipeline anyway, but had been withheld because the future of C-Series did not look so very bright lately.

There are requirements, where type A might be the winner on paper, however other circumstance make it hard to choose type A. Look at the superjet for instance. Exactly that changed for the C-Series now. Nothing else.

And the Max will continue to win sales campaigns as will others.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:42 pm

beaconinbound wrote:
I am sooo tired of this anti-Boeing stuff here. And on other occasions this anti-A stuff also. Please avoid these sentiments on posting on this forum - at least if you want to keep a (kind of) professional attitude.


It's not strictly anti-Boeing. Some of us who grew up in Boeing's home turf and are almost irrevocably pro-Boeing still have been hoping to see other manufacturers grow, too. It's even our hope to get to fly on the CSeries in the US and enjoy the improvements it should bring to narrowbody passenger comfort. We're frustrated by they way the case against Bombardier has played out, which even accepting the claims of illicit subsidies and dumping, has resulted in quantitatively absurd penalties.

In that context, since this aircraft is a "direct competitor" to a Boeing product, there's unsurprisingly a bit of schadenfreude that Boeing lost this bid, although my personal feelings are more relief that the CSeries is still landing sales, even if it appears to have been reliant on gaining Airbus' backing.

jnev3289 wrote:
I'm assuming they think Boeing will be upset because Boeing tried to stop their sale to US carriers even though this is to an Egyptian carrier and Boeing wouldn't have cared one bit


That makes sense, given that Boeing is very publicly on record as being upset. They can only legally challenge US sales, but it's their own claim that CSeries sales hurt Boeing, or will hurt Boeing if the CSeries succeeds (the threat of harm thoroughly discussed in the dumping thread).

jnev3289 wrote:
lol Boeing can only stop a single order guys, they don't have the power to kill an entire product line. Get over yourselves, they can't touch any non-US sale (of which there were almost none)


By "almost none," you mean 72% of the orders?
 
iamlucky13
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:45 pm

Bostrom wrote:
This might be a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway. How firm is a Letter of intent and can we expect it to turn into an order?


As far as I know, there are no penalties for backing out, but it's relatively unusual for an LOI not to turn into an order.
 
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jnev3289
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 pm

^Uh which Non-US order is supposed to strike fear into Boeing or anyone? The 17 ordered by airBaltic or the 10 by SWISS? 72% of a small number isn't very meaningful

I just want to make it clear that I LOVE the CSeries and would really like it to be successful, but to try and posture like they have been successful so far in securing significant orders outside the US is grasping at straws
 
1900Driver
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:56 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:

And Boeing has what to do with this exactly?

I'm assuming they think Boeing will be upset because Boeing tried to stop their sale to US carriers even though this is to an Egyptian carrier and Boeing wouldn't have cared one bit


Just goes to show how some people have no idea what they are talking about in their blind hate towards Boeing, haha.


Anyways congrats to MS, solid commitment that will
hopefully get firmed up, can’t wait to see other orders come to fruition.


Not blind hate... Clearly warranted when Boeing’s plan to run their competition to the ground by influencing US gov policy is failing.

Anyhow, congrats to MS & BBD.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:02 pm

1900Driver wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
I'm assuming they think Boeing will be upset because Boeing tried to stop their sale to US carriers even though this is to an Egyptian carrier and Boeing wouldn't have cared one bit


Just goes to show how some people have no idea what they are talking about in their blind hate towards Boeing, haha.


Anyways congrats to MS, solid commitment that will
hopefully get firmed up, can’t wait to see other orders come to fruition.


Not blind hate... Clearly warranted when Boeing’s plan to run their competition to the ground by influencing US gov policy is failing.

Anyhow, congrats to MS & BBD.


It’s pretty blind if people have no idea what they’re talking about, MS has nothing to do with US orders of the CSeries.
 
robsaw
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:14 pm

ikolkyo wrote:

It’s pretty blind if people have no idea what they’re talking about, MS has nothing to do with US orders of the CSeries.


ANY order of the CSeries is relevant to the overall market for the CSeries whether in Egypt, the USA or elsewhere. The overall viability of the product goes to the heart of all orders (existing and potential) and the Boeing action clearly is relevant.
 
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Slash787
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:39 pm

This is great news, the rumours were going on for a while, any idea when is the EIS?
 
hitchy81
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:09 pm

Boeing's trade action wasn't just about trying to condemn American travelers to narrow seats. It's pretty clear that they launched the attack with the hope that by blocking the plane in the US market they could kill it off completely. However with more orders now coming in, it looks increasingly likely that the CSeries will have a future regardless whether Americans are ever able to enjoy it. If Boeing's efforts to kill the plane fail then they'll have destroyed their relationship with Canada for nothing.
 
1900Driver
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
1900Driver wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:

Just goes to show how some people have no idea what they are talking about in their blind hate towards Boeing, haha.


Anyways congrats to MS, solid commitment that will
hopefully get firmed up, can’t wait to see other orders come to fruition.


Not blind hate... Clearly warranted when Boeing’s plan to run their competition to the ground by influencing US gov policy is failing.

Anyhow, congrats to MS & BBD.


It’s pretty blind if people have no idea what they’re talking about, MS has nothing to do with US orders of the CSeries.


And Boeing had nothing to do with the DL order, literally! Yet, they still engaged in anti competitive behaviour in a predatory manner. Do you have an idea of what you’re talking about?
 
kjeld0d
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:59 pm

Doesn't Egypt need to 'sign an LOI' to regain their tourist industry first? Or are these all replacements?
 
iamlucky13
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:21 pm

jnev3289 wrote:
^Uh which Non-US order is supposed to strike fear into Boeing or anyone? The 17 ordered by airBaltic or the 10 by SWISS? 72% of a small number isn't very meaningful

I just want to make it clear that I LOVE the CSeries and would really like it to be successful, but to try and posture like they have been successful so far in securing significant orders outside the US is grasping at straws


They're not supposed to strike fear in the heart of Boeing. That's the point.

It's Boeing's claim that CSeries sales terrify them. If sales of a subsidized product are a major problem for them in the US, they're a major problem in other markets like Egypt. Since most of us recognize that despite their rhetoric, the CSeries is actually only a minor threat to Boeing, it's very tempting to mock "poor Boeing" when things they claim to be terrified of happen.

I'm not sure what kind of significance you're reading into my "posturing" about the CSeries non-US sales. My only point was to correct your claim that almost none of the CSeries were non-US. It seems you actually meant to convey that the total order book is small, rather than the non-US orders are a small part of the order book, but the latter is how I read what you previously wrote.

I do agree that the total orders are insignificant compared to their competition, which means comparable economies of scale and competitive pricing that enables them to recover development costs and generate a viable profit will be very difficult. From that perspective, I have to disagree with you on whether or not Boeing's US trade case potentially threatens the entire product line, and also on whether even small foreign sales meaningfully help Bombardier mitigate the effect of the US case.

To be clear, I'm not arguing hear that Boeing does not have a case. I think they do, but that's a topic we have a separate thread for, and I don't think the case justifies Boeing's rhetoric, and especially not the size penalties that have been proposed for the CSeries.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 pm

If full production of the CSeries shifts to Mobile, because I don't think Airbus would only build the DL frames there, it's a win for BBD, Airbus, and the USA.

As an American avgeek that loves his country, it sounds good to me!
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 pm

1900Driver wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
1900Driver wrote:

Not blind hate... Clearly warranted when Boeing’s plan to run their competition to the ground by influencing US gov policy is failing.

Anyhow, congrats to MS & BBD.


It’s pretty blind if people have no idea what they’re talking about, MS has nothing to do with US orders of the CSeries.


And Boeing had nothing to do with the DL order, literally! Yet, they still engaged in anti competitive behaviour in a predatory manner. Do you have an idea of what you’re talking about?


You’re completely missing the point.
 
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Polot
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:32 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
If full production of the CSeries shifts to Mobile, because I don't think Airbus would only build the DL frames there, it's a win for BBD, Airbus, and the USA.

As an American avgeek that loves his country, it sounds good to me!

Well it wouldn't be a win for BBD, as that would only happen when BBD is no longer involved in the program (which I guess would be a win for them if the Airbus partnership doesn't translate into success?)
 
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william
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:41 pm

Was the difference between LOI and order explained?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:41 pm

Polot wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
If full production of the CSeries shifts to Mobile, because I don't think Airbus would only build the DL frames there, it's a win for BBD, Airbus, and the USA.

As an American avgeek that loves his country, it sounds good to me!

Well it wouldn't be a win for BBD, as that would only happen when BBD is no longer involved in the program (which I guess would be a win for them if the Airbus partnership doesn't translate into success?)

BBD is still a 49.09% stakeholder in the program. How would it not be a win for them?

Genuinely asking, not trying to be stand off-ish.
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
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Cyow
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:22 am

OP here. Just want to say that I have enjoyed flying on Boeing planes all my life. 737 not so much, but thats besides the point. I'm happy for BBD because the Cseries is a great frame. It just is. But what Boeing did this year really pissed me off. I hope BBD and Airbus not only succeed with this program but they hit it out of the park. Karma is female dog. But that's just my humble opinion.
"Broadsword calling Danny Boy"
 
iamlucky13
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Re: EgyptAir signs LOI for up to 24 CS300s

Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:02 am

william wrote:
Was the difference between LOI and order explained?


A Letter of Intent does not actually contract the parties to complete a sale, but it does make clear that the buyer is seriously interested and may provide some limitations on the final negotiations. For example, it may be in Bombardier's interest to agree the final pricing will not exceed in a certain number in exchange for EgyptAir agreeing not to solicit any competing bids unless a firm order contract is not signed within a certain period of time.

At least, that's the sorts of details I assume would merit an additional milestone like an LOI in the sales process.

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