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UAL747422
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If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:42 pm

Just a thought that crossed my mind. The Boeing 757 uses the Rolls-Royce RB211 engines, which is the same that the L-1011 used. The 757 is still somewhat efficient and in use, while the L-1011 is pretty much extinct. Yes, it is 60's and 70's technology, but it could have been upgraded. The whole reason the L-1011 was a tri-jet was due to the requirement that aircraft with 2 engines could not cross the ocean back then. Lockheed wanted it to be a widebody, long range airliner. If that rule wasn't in place at the time, possibly the L-1011 (and maybe the DC-10) could have been twin-jets. Besides, the L-1011 was very futuristic, it could land itself. My main question being, if the L-1011 used only 2 RB211's, would it have been a huge sucess and possibly still be in production? I hope this makes sense.

UAL747422
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Revelation
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:47 pm

UAL747422 wrote:
The whole reason the L-1011 was a tri-jet was due to the requirement that aircraft with 2 engines could not cross the ocean back then.

Nope, not the whole reason.

The early RB211s had less thrust than the later ones and the L1011 was a lot heavier than the 757.

Also due to engine out restrictions (each engine in a twin needs to be able to produce all the thrust needed for takeoff in case the other one dies, whereas in a only 1/3 of the thrust needs to be replaced in an engine out situation) a twin L1011 was not feasible.
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:50 pm

UAL747422 wrote:
. Lockheed wanted it to be a widebody, long range airliner. If that rule wasn't in place at the time, possibly the L-1011 (and maybe the DC-10) could have been twin-jets.

The engines were not powerful enough for a "long" range twinjet widebody at the time.

Also the L-1011 (and DC-10) were designed with three engines in part to help fulfill AA's (and others) requirements out of shorter runways (e.g., LGA).
 
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rikkus67
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:28 pm

From the outset, the L-1011 and DC-10 were designed as a smaller alternative to the 747. As others have stated, weight and thrust negated the type to allow for twin engine operation.
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:29 pm

The problem is, there wasn't a sufficiently powerful engine for an L-1011 sized twin-jet in the early 1970s.

I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.

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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
The problem is, there wasn't a sufficiently powerful engine for an L-1011 sized twin-jet in the early 1970s.

I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.

V/F


Right. In early 1977, Lockheed proposed the L1011-400 (basically an L1011-500 fuselage with derated engines and reduced weights, for domestic use) and a -600, which is the "Bistar". The -400 was a nonstarter once the 767 was announced. The -600 looked like a whale:

http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AI/AI77-5/4-2.jpg
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:27 pm

Also, there wasn’t ETOPS, so any thought of overwater ops was dead on arrival.
 
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FoxtrotSierra
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:34 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.


Well, Bistar doesn't sound as cool as Tristar, now does it? :D
 
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:41 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
The problem is, there wasn't a sufficiently powerful engine for an L-1011 sized twin-jet in the early 1970s.

I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.

V/F


I am curious how can that be true as the A300 came on the scene at about the same time as the DC10 and L1011 but it was range restricted.
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Polot
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:48 pm

klm617 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
The problem is, there wasn't a sufficiently powerful engine for an L-1011 sized twin-jet in the early 1970s.

I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.

V/F


I am curious how can that be true as the A300 came on the scene at about the same time as the DC10 and L1011 but it was range restricted.

Because as you said it was range restricted and thus significantly lighter (almost 40 t lower MTOW). No A300s, even the later -600Rs, matched the range of even the base L-1011-1.
 
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UAL747422
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:22 pm

Right. In early 1977, Lockheed proposed the L1011-400 (basically an L1011-500 fuselage with derated engines and reduced weights, for domestic use) and a -600, which is the "Bistar". The -400 was a nonstarter once the 767 was announced. The -600 looked like a whale:

http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/AI/AI77-5/4-2.jpg


Looking at the photo, I think if the -600 was actually real, it could have had some real competition with the 762 when it came out and the A300. Looks like a 762.
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patineta89
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Re: If the L-1011 had only 2 engines, would it have been a success?

Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:04 pm

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
I seem to recall later on the programme there was a proposal for a "Bistar" but it didn't leave the drawing board.


Well, Bistar doesn't sound as cool as Tristar, now does it? :D


They could just call it 'Binary System" ;)
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