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qf789
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:42 am

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017, please continue to add your comments below

Link to the November edition

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1377587
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planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:56 am

CA is boosting its AKL - PEK service, from 4x weekly flights to 5x weekly flights, from 30 March.

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-30nov17/.

It is fantastic to see CA seeming to do well at AKL, despite:

- Visitor arrivals from China to New Zealand showing much slower growth
- New carriers continually launching services from China (like GS, ex-XIY)

Interestingly, CA not only markets Asia and Europe connections ex-AKL, but American ones too.

AKL - PEK - LAX (at 12,713 mi) is almost double AKL - LAX (at 6,505 mi) - this is uncompetitive!

Regarding CA's future presence in New Zealand, I wonder:

- How long will it be before CA is able to sustain a daily AKL - PEK flight?
- Would CA follow CX, CZ and others in flying to CHC, before HU or MU?

Has anyone flown on CA's AKL - PEK flight? If so, how did you find it compared to other carriers?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Interestingly, UL will only code-share on QF's MEL - AKL service, and not to WLG, CHC or ZQN.

See: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -dec-2017/.

I hear that CMB and Indian transfers ex-WLG are strong for SQ - UL's move should sustain this.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A number of new New Zealand shops are opening at AKL on 1 December, such as icebreaker.

There are a series of photos on the AKL Facebook page - see: https://www.facebook.com/AucklandAirport/.

I feel that this is a good development - tourists will welcome more last-minute shopping options.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Airbus has predicted that aviation growth in this side of the world will outpace that of elsewhere.

See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11950698.

... the number of airline passengers to New Zealand's top three cities will nearly double to 38 million by 2036

Do people think that this is a realistic forecast? There are so many variables that could change.

For example, China could face a financial crash, or a trade war could restrict foreign air rights.

Cheers,

C.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 am

for ease of access for rebuttal, I will repost in my last post in the new thread.

All this competition between AKL vs WLG and others stuff basically miss out on the fact that New Zealand is a single, very well served a small market of 4.3million, not really smaller submarket of AKL, WLG, CHC etc. Without WLG/NPE/TRG/PMR/NPL/CHC/ZQN/DUD you would not sustain the carriers that operate to AKL,, nor their frequency (connections make up a major part of AKL demand), without AKL as the solid population base the carriers are not able to justify operating the frequency they do, which keeps the costs down and total available seats up. If you start a flight to WLG, you are basically taking 10% of the demand away from AKL, ie: say you serve a market 14x a week ex AKL, 1.4x a week worth is ex WLG. Now you know that if they do start a service, passengers are going to want 1) the cheapest option 2) the maximum frequency.

Do you think that the fare AKL-WLG-SIN is going to be cheap enough to warrant AKL demand which is probably about 65-70% of the existing flight from AKL flying to WLG first? no of course not. The competition for the market that exists is through AKL on direct flights with many different airlines. Do you think that WLG would be happy with only 1x a week worth of demand? No of course not. Low frequency equals higher fares and lower demand for available seats.
Do you think as an airline it is better to operate with 65% of a flight being higher yielding point to point or ex WLG as the 65% as lower yielding add-on transfer passengers? It is a symbiotic relationship that you balance. As an airline you want 100% of a flight to be point to point, but that is unrealistic, so economically speaking filling a seat is better than not filling a seat so you compromise by adding transit passengers at either end of the served route to boost the demand, thereby boosting frequency/aircraft capacity and lowering the costs per passenger which can be passed on to the consumer..

If you look internationally we see profitable airlines like NZ/QF linking the limited 4.3million NZL market as a transfer point, to the larger Australian markets en route to other even larger markets like LAX/SFO/IAH, meaning that you are competing for a smaller slice of a much bigger pie, rather than a much larger percentage of a much smaller market. This is the reason New Zealand is such a fickle market for foreign carriers - they struggle to make the economies of scale pay off. with a long-haul end of the line point to point service, or if they offer connections LA/CX or similar they are splitting the revenue and lowering yield.

WLG (and the rest of NZL/South Pacific) is also best served as a smaller piece of a larger cake via SYD and via AKL and via NAN.

planemanofnz wrote:

Airbus has predicted that aviation growth on this side of the world will outpace that of elsewhere.

... the number of airline passengers to New Zealand's top three cities will nearly double to 38 million by 2036

Do people think that this is a realistic forecast? There are so many variables that could change.



CA benefits from their arrangement with NZ compared to the other Chinese airlines. I thought CA had already been daily and reduced frequency to match demand previously.

As far as the Airbus forecast, this is done first and foremost with the intention of gaining big orders for NZ. NZ is the growth driver as far as airlines go in this market, they build markets up to the point other airlines think they can operate, NZ is the airline driving transit hub ambitions. I think it would be realistic if I thought the associated infrastructure was also increasing Hotels, Roads at a rate a European company would expect a country to grow at.. New Zealand will really struggle to match growth like that., especially if AKL doesn't meet their forecast growth (which historically they don't).
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:37 am

CA alternates between daily in NW and 4x weekly NS, as mentioned 5x weekly from next March, good to see some more off peak growth, hope it does well for them.

Also good to see G17 going live in the last few days
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:11 am

Love to hear a trip report on CA into AKL.... any photos of Gate 17?
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:18 am

aerokiwi wrote:
So let's go through the points, because yes I'm getting my rant on.

You say this, but yet you did not address many of the key points that I already raised:

- It is actually only in recent years that New Zealand's economy has started to out-perform that of the developed world
- Airlines have been snapping up bigger cities until now, but have to turn to smaller cities for growth (think QR at CWL)
- WLG's runway is best suited to new planes like the 359 and 789 - many airlines do not yet have these planes delivered
- I assume that a number of ASAs would not give Asian and Middle Eastern carriers trans-Tasman rights to/from WLG
- It is not in NZ's interest to cannibalise its AKL hub, nor is it in EK's interest to potentially destablise its QF alliance

Further, you did not address how inbound visitor arrivals to WLG are growing rapidly.

aerokiwi wrote:
Diplomatic and government travel... ain't what it used to be folks!

There is actually growing demand for diplomatic air travel ex-WLG - for example:

- Since 2016, there has been a permanent, resident EU ambassador in WLG
- In October 2017, the EU voted to push forward its FTA plans with New Zealand
- New Zealand also plans to re-open FTA negotiations with Russia in the next year
- New Zealand is assisting the UK with Brexit, by seconding trade negotiators
- Ireland will soon open an embassy in WLG, and New Zealand one in DUB
- Negotiations for an FTA between New Zealand and the GCC are on-going
- More FTAs and trade increases the relevance of the likes of the WTO in GVA

This is just a small range of the many two-way diplomatic activities which are growing.

In a number of these cases, QR has an advantage over SQ (e.g. to DUB and GVA).

aerokiwi wrote:
We can name some examples of companies that exist there - yeah usually not a great sign that there's this mass of latent corporate demand. Especially when it seems to be assumed that existence of business = high value international demand.

Do we have to spell out to you the international activities of these WLG brands? If we take Europe as an example, which is where QR would have an advantage, Xero is the market leader for cloud accounting in the UK (where it has >250,000 customers, and >200 employees). The UK has been singled out as Xero's next growth target, in the company's last annual report, given the opportunities arising from the UK's ''Making Tax Digital'' program. Other WLG brands operate in Europe too - for example, the Todd Corporation has investments in the UK, and Weta Digital works on European media projects, like Game of Thrones (filmed in Ireland). We have to acknowledge that these activities generate at least some demand to Europe ex-WLG, for both cargo and passengers.

aerokiwi wrote:
... they're lucky to get any international service for a "city" of 400,000 at the bottom of the world.

CHC is broadly the same size as WLG, and yet sustains a number of long-haul services.

Obviously, your use of population size as a measure of potential is far too simplistic here.

aerorobnz wrote:
New Zealand is a single ... market ... not really smaller submarket of AKL, WLG, CHC etc.

Tell that to the likes of CI, CX, CZ, EK, SQ and others, who have chosen to serve WLG and/or CHC, instead of consolidating their services at AKL.

aerokiwi wrote:
These aren't the pharmaceuticals that keep the likes of Geneva with some decent long-haul connections. These are minnows at the end of the line, vastly outweighed by a much larger and easier serviced neighbour to the north.

GVA is similar to WLG, with diplomatic activities (the Red Cross, the UN and the WTO) - supposedly, GVA - JFK is kept for UN traffic purposes.

For what it is worth, GVA is also close to "a much larger and easier serviced neighbour to the north," being ZRH, of course. There is room for both.

aerokiwi wrote:
I just don't see the case for the New Zealand public forking out, what, $300m for the private benefit of Infratil, the off-chance it'd secure an international long haul service or to save Wellingtonians 2-3 hours on their jaunts abroad.

Nobody is saying that a runway extension is needed - either use a tag from Australia, or use a new aircraft like the 359 (think CX's HKG - DUB).

aerorobnz wrote:
WLG (and the rest of NZL/South Pacific) is also best served as a smaller piece of a larger cake via SYD and via AKL and via NAN.

We are only talking about one or two more flights to WLG (e.g. from CZ and QR) - of course, WLG will mostly continue to be served via AKL.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:18 pm

NPL8800 wrote:
Also good to see G17 going live in the last few days.

NZ321 wrote:
... any photos of Gate 17?

EK 407 (AKL - MEL) was the first flight to depart from the new gate, on 28 November.

Image

See: https://twitter.com/AKLFlyer.

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:46 pm

I can't see QR serving WLG. Sorry. They're not about to do CBR-WLG in competition with SQ and they are surely after yields to support the current AKL flight. WLG would undermine this. Their presence in NZ hinges on the nonstop flight otherwise they are not competitive with EK. So it's AKL IMHO. 77L to be replaced with 778 eventually assuming they stick around that long at AKL. As for CZ, why would they go to WLG? CHC appears to be working well and AKL too and that's 2 cities in a country with a population less than 5 million. Possibly a seasonal service to WLG with 788? Thing is, I suspect most of the mainland Chinese inbound traffic is for AKL or the South Island, surely? Anybody have any stats on this? Korea and Japan too. I'm really scratching the bottom of the barrel trying to come up with a long haul carrier that has the market pull that would fly nonstop to WLG. The only ones I come up with are SQ and they've elected to go via CBR for the time being and EK who could (out of left field) route DXB-SIN-WLG but doesn't seem likely given recent decisions to exit the Tasman from AKL and reduce to two NZ flights per day.

As for tag ons via Australia, we could see another carrier enter WLG but I'm struggling to see who because WLG is not low-cost central, lacks the volume for this and the bulk of the market is from AKL. D7 is slashing capacity to Australia and refocusing capacity within SE Asia. TZ seems unlikely because SQ is already on the route and in terms of volume and demand, they will find it in AKL I don't see CX entering the Tasman so soon after commencing seasonal CHC. Same for TG and MH. EY has to deal with their balance sheet first. PR has just up gauged AKL. And then we're back to square one unless.... NZ or QF offer something (say NZ offer a combined daily service to 2-3 points) but they've already signalled that Asian yields are under pressure and they'd have the added cost of long haul crew base in WLG. Thing is, Wellington has a relatively small population given the required infrastructure and is so conveniently located to AKL and CHC (and for that matter the best coast of Australia) for long haul connections. I'm not seeing it.

Maybe we could see more traffic into WLG from the region - Samoa, Fiji. Maybe WLG is a chance for Fiji Airways to offer daily connections via NAN to Asia and USA :) - they seem to be expanding Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore and North America. That wouldn't be a dumb move. Lots of Fijians living in the Wellington region :) and it doesn't require a runway extension.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:50 pm

Thanks for the post of G17. Can't wait to see this peer fully developed and the redevelopment of the current main pier along the lines of the airport plans. It sure has been a while coming. I guess we may have to wait some time before we see the other side of this pier :)
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:55 pm

aerorobnz wrote:
CA benefits from their arrangement with NZ compared to the other Chinese airlines.

NPL8800 wrote:
CA ... good to see some more off peak growth, hope it does well for them.

AKL (5x weekly) will have a bigger CA presence from PEK than MEL (4x weekly) or BNE (3x weekly).

That being said, even with this growth, CA is still weaker than CZ or MU at AKL (the NZ JV excluded).

Separately, I am looking forward to seeing MU's 77W return on PVG - AKL, from 1 February 2018. :)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On the topic of China, Chinese passengers can now use eGates at AKL, which is a welcome initiative.

See: https://www.customs.govt.nz/about-us/ne ... ases/test/.

Customs Minister Meka Whaitiri and representatives from the Chinese government joined staff and key partners to mark the milestone.

IMHO, little things like this will improve AKL's positioning for China - South America traffic, providing marketing points against other hubs.

Image

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:57 pm

I would add that I am not at all convinced about the D7 / Air Asia X aims for long haul international travel. None of their forays have lasted beyond Australia and they have twice expanded Australia and pulled back. They say they are doing well to HNL but the service is still in its infancy. Their model seems much better suited to short-medium haul flights. I wonder why?
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:57 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
New Zealand is a single ... market ... not really smaller submarket of AKL, WLG, CHC etc.

Tell that to the likes of CI, CX, CZ, EK, SQ and others, who have chosen to serve WLG and/or CHC, instead of consolidating their services at AKL.

SQ after a 40-year presence in NZ has built the NZ market and brand awareness up, They also chose a low-risk strategy that was subsidised to start, they would likely have maintained the status quo had WLG not backed them. The jury is still out whether they will continue after the subsidies end. From what I heard it was not performing as well as SQ was expecting so who knows. Most airlines quote 24 flights a week to NZ rather than daily AKL, Daily CHC and 4 a week WLG. SQ have been careful to stagger their flights throughout the day to minimise the doubling up on demand

In EKs case, they are basically pulling out of AKL because QF does the job of serving the market so much better, they are probably not the best airline to use as an example of success., Prior to switching the EK413 sector to CHC, this route and timing were much more popular, but they sacrificed that to serve CHC (which makes sense). They and CI still connecting the dots that they couldn't justify with direct long haul. WLG growth as I said in the previous post, as best served via the nearest hubs. SYD, MEL, AKL. CI have employed this strategy to both AKL and CHC if it fails like MEL-CHC they will still operate to BNE and SYD. They know full well that their operation depends on Australia as a larger market. If Australia goes into a tourism hole CI will up and leave as they have done previously.

Rumour around their Ground Handler has it that EK will stop flying direct DXB as the costs outweigh the yields, and will eventually operate with one stop, which, if true, would further back up the fact that they view the market the same way I do.

CZ was keen to maintain their advantage of being the most established Chinese brand, and with one airline one route they are equally operating it to protect themselves from predation by the others.If it has a negative impact they can choose to restrict AKL to a daily service or stop CHC to protect the other flights.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:54 pm

NZ321 wrote:
They're not about to do CBR-WLG in competition with SQ.

QR would not fly to WLG via CBR, as its CBR flight is designed to maximise rights out of SYD (which hinge on a CBR tag, through SYD).

I also doubt that QR would fly to WLG via SYD or MEL, as it is seeking more rights from tier one cities, due to pre-existing demand.

QR could serve WLG via a different Australian city, like ADL. I have heard that QR's yields in ADL are in the dumps, so WLG could help.

NZ321 wrote:
... they are surely after yields to support the current AKL flight. WLG would undermine this.

I doubt that many airlines who do not connect to NZ domestically, carry a significant amount of WLG passengers through AKL (like QR).

There is every reason to believe that a QR service ex-WLG would do more damage to EK and QF's yields ex-WLG, than to QR's ex-AKL.

NZ321 wrote:
Their presence in NZ hinges on the nonstop flight otherwise they are not competitive with EK.

Ex-AKL, that is true, but not ex-WLG, where EK relies on QF, who use an inferior product to EK (and QR) (particularly in Business Class).

Ex-WLG, a QR service would provide a more consistent and marketable offering to customers, which would easily compete against EK.

NZ321 wrote:
As for CZ, why would they go to WLG?

There are a number of reasons why CZ might be interested in serving WLG in the near future (including, but by no means limited to):

- CZ is already at 2x daily ex-AKL and 1x daily ex-CHC (in summer), and is facing increasing competition there - WLG offers new growth
- As AKL and CHC become saturated with new players, WLG would offer CZ a marketable point of difference from other Chinese carriers
- CZ does not align well with domestic connections on JQ (more oneworld) or NZ (more Star Alliance), being a member of SkyTeam
- While CZ is unlikely to fill a service ex-OOL, if it added a OOL - WLG tag, this may make such a service more viable (think WLG as a filler)

aerorobnz wrote:
SQ after a 40-year presence in NZ has built the NZ market and brand awareness up.

Yet, in just one year, QR has overtaken all other carriers, except EK and SQ, in the Europe - New Zealand corridor (including CX and NZ).

The ME3 play by a different rule book, and are far more willing to take risks - look at QR in the likes of CWL, EDI, PEN, UTP and others.

aerorobnz wrote:
In EKs case, they are basically pulling out of AKL.

aerorobnz wrote:
Rumour around their Ground Handler has it that EK will stop flying direct DXB as the costs outweigh the yields.

Aside from not taking the word of a Ground Handler on such a subject, I would be absolutely shocked if EK dropped its DXB - AKL flight:

- There are so many options EK has, before needing to take such a drastic move, like using a 77L (and not a 380), or reducing frequencies
- The carrier has invested so much into the New Zealand market over the years, like by continuing to sponsor Emirates Team New Zealand
- EK dominates the Europe - New Zealand corridor in market share, by a big amount - SQ comes a distant second, and QR comes in third

On this last point, see this analysis:

The top three connecting hubs for transit traffic between New Zealand and Europe in 2016 were Dubai (30% of transit traffic), Singapore (14%) and Hong Kong (9.6%). In 2017 so far, the top two hubs still remain Dubai and Singapore, however as a result of Qatar Airways’ new route, Doha has become the third most popular connecting hub between New Zealand and Europe.

See: http://www.anna.aero/2017/10/16/new-zea ... ared-2007/.

EK will want to wait and see what the (hopefully positive) effect of its removal of the trans-Tasman tags will have on its non-stop AKL flight.

Cheers,

C.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:57 pm

As much as I'd love to see WLG get more long haul stuff I do think it's dependent on a runway extension. Until you can do something like WLG-SIN non stop I just don't see airlines considering it. Maybe new improvements in performance will allow new aircraft to do it profitably but I just don't hold out that much hope without a runway extension.

And the cost to make the extension is already big without any other complications like requiring the full runoff area or planning for a sea level rise.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:59 am

CX has provided some additional insight into its HKG - CHC service, which departs from HKG tonight:

- Pirihi said sales for the Christchurch service were strong, and most traffic was inbound from Asia
- Total inbound tourist spending in the South Island from the new service would be about $12 million
- Cathay analysts would assess the operation at the end of February to see whether it could be expanded

See: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11950150.

I really hope that this seasonal service is a success - it would be great to see it become year-round.

Separately, does anyone know why CX does not code-share on NZ's intra-New Zealand services?

A number of less important partners do, like NH and VS. CX sells QF connections ex-ZQN instead.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CHC has won the Efficiency Champion category of the national Sustainable Business Network awards.

Our energy use has reduced dramatically every year since we opened the new terminal in 2013, we saved 6.6% or 950,000 kilowatt hours in the last 12 months alone – that’s enough to power 120 medium-sized kiwi homes for a year.

See: https://www.facebook.com/ChristchurchAirport/.

CHC is also exploring a number of other sustainable business ideas, like automated electric vehicles.

IMHO, CHC is the best of the international airports in New Zealand - the new terminal is so slick. ;)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
As much as I'd love to see WLG get more long haul stuff I do think it's dependent on a runway extension. Until you can do something like WLG-SIN non stop I just don't see airlines considering it. Maybe new improvements in performance will allow new aircraft to do it profitably but I just don't hold out that much hope without a runway extension.

And the cost to make the extension is already big without any other complications like requiring the full runoff area or planning for a sea level rise.

The runway extension at WLG is not needed here, given the enhanced capabilities of new planes, such as the 359 and 789:

"The Astral report showed almost all of the aircraft studied could reach Singapore while a number could reach Guangzhou."

CX's new DUB - HKG service is a good example of a route that cannot be flown by the 332 (given runway length), but can be by the 359.

Even NZ says that "The problem with flying long haul from Wellington isn't the length of the runway" - NZ says demand is the issue.

I query NZ's comments on passenger demand - it cites no figures, and clearly does not want to undermine its AKL hub with a WLG flight.

NZ also only cites "travellers from the Wellington region or even the lower North Island" - not visitors, who are growing by double digits.

Even if demand is an issue for a stand-alone flight, carriers can use trans-Tasman tags, like QR (say ADL - WLG) or CZ (say OOL - WLG).

See:
- http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8073498 ... ger-runway.
- http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion ... sengers-is.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:48 am

I have just read the December edition of NZ's in-flight magazine - 'Kia Ora' (available on Apple Store).

NZ's Cultural Development Manager talks about NZ wanting to "normalise the use of te reo Maori."

The magazine notes other Maori-related NZ activities that were not mentioned in last month's thread:

- The development of a new bilingual quiz (With Maori), to be shown on selected domestic flights
- Supporting Rotorua's Reo Rua initiative - the city's quest to become Aotearoa's first bilingual city
- The launch of a pronunciation training program for pilots, cabin crew and Rotorua airport employees
- Launching a series of workshops for the 'Senior Leadership Team' at NZ, on Maori cultural fluency

The magazine also promotes the language, by using Maori place names, like Te Ika a Maui (North Island).

Whether people like it or not, NZ seems to be committed to growing its use of Te Reo Maori in the future.

Cheers,

C.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:13 am

Megatop747-412 wrote:
Will try and see if I can find any information about crew layovers for the rest, and especially SQ.

I have just found out from a friend who is an SQ FA, that SQ uses the Heritage Hotel in Auckland. :)
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:39 am

A new section of AKL's international departure lounge opened today, on schedule:

Image

See: https://twitter.com/gbradleynz.

It is particularly good to see a number of New Zealand stores within the new area.

What other retail offerings do people think AKL should pursue? A Barkers? :)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ZQN gave a water salute to welcome Milford Flight's new caravan, ZK-MCI.

Image

See: https://twitter.com/NZQN.

The bird stopped in Ardmore last month (via HNL / APW), en-route to ZQN:

Image

See: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Dennis-Thom ... 344/posts/.

It is nice to see regional carriers like this one investing in new equipment.

Has anyone actually taken the Milford Sound flight? I heard it is stunning.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here are some other photos of AKL's new Gate 17, which opened on 28 November:

Image

Image

See: https://www.facebook.com/NovotelAKLAirp ... KKFtEEScP4.

Does anyone have interior photos? So far, I can only find photos of the exterior. :(

Cheers,

C.
 
NPL8800
Posts: 89
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:23 am

The new AKL retail strategy revolves around the best of NZ and the best of the world, which so far has included bee products, merino, jade, ice breaker clothing and NZ art, with more coming. The NZ stores tend to be more boutique in nature, not necessarily major companies . I'd expect Barkers to be more likely to go to CHC vs AKL if they were to consider an airport offering (Assuming you're referring to the preserve company in Geraldine, rather than the clothing chain)

For the world part, A luxury precinct is also on the way, which interestingly wasn't high on the list only 2 or so years ago. So far this precinct (when opened around mid 2018) will include Coach, Furla, Hugo Boss, Rolex/Partrdige Jewellers, Longchamp, Lacoste and Fossil, again more yet to be announced.

New food and drink area yet to be announced and looks like will be the last part of the reno to open in Q3-4 2018 a mix of global and local likely as well.
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:58 am

mariner wrote:
The fact that Sounds is investigating" bigger aircraft I would have thought deserves a mention, because even if this present (Beech 1900D's) move doesn't come to fruition it suggests the airline is sees a bigger role for itself.

I'd love to see them operating some Saab 340 sized aircraft. More realistically, Textron Aviation's new Cessna 408 is probably a better size for them.

mariner wrote:
Air New Zealand is in the early stages of scoping the private afforestation fund with the government but planting could begin next year.

The airline will work with the Ministry for the Environment and the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) to explore the establishment of a private afforestation scheme, providing funding to landowners to plant trees in return for the carbon benefits this will create.

Air New Zealand emits about three million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year but is part of a global push among airlines to carbon neutral growth after 2020."[/i]

I hope it goes ahead. Whatever your position on global warming, surely no one can see anything wrong with cleaning up the planet?


A fantastic pro-active move by the national carrier, I hope that more airlines will do similar and that this will help to prevent further unnecessary taxation of the aviation sector. On a related note, I'm finding the new government's open & ambitious approach to forestry development and the forestry industry quite refreshing. Certainly it's an industry that the previous government completely neglected/forgot about.

ernestxwb wrote:
I don't think there needs to be more capacity added to the HKG route. In the summer there are 5 daily flights running between AKL and HKG as well as one from CHC. HX are offering dirt cheap fares particularly when you originate from HKG. Maybe a retiming of flights would be more appropriate if NZ wants to optimize EZE connections from HKG.

I thought that HX were struggling in terms of loadfactors?

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Most likely as Switzerland has 4 official languages. French, German, Italian, and Romansch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Switzerland

Yeah I know. :)

Kiwirob wrote:
I find our singing of the national anthem quite embarassing, you watch the All Blacks very few of them sing the opening verse in Maori ditto for the crowd then a few people kick in when the English verse is sung, I think it would make more sence to lead in with the English and finish with the Maori, at least then some people would sing along and we would make a bit of noise.


I'm fine with it. Most of us younger folks have both versions drilled into us at school, so have no issue with the Maori version.
Most recent planes I've been in: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, B737-600 LN-RPA, B737-700 OY-JTY, B737-800 LN-NGA, B767-300 ZK-NCI, B777-300 ZK-OKN, B787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:01 pm

I suppose there may come a time when we will snap 8 737s and A320 in a row at the new pier - maybe first thing in the morning! Nice to see the pictures of the new gates. Thank you :)
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:37 pm

Kia ora, has CX started flying the A359 into AKL yet? I’m on a CDG flight with them via HKG next Saturday and am hoping it’ll be the new plane and the new Y+
come visit the south pacific
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:41 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
Kia ora, has CX started flying the A359 into AKL yet? I’m on a CDG flight with them via HKG next Saturday and am hoping it’ll be the new plane and the new Y+


Only over a year ago, they they are back to 2 daily from today for the summer peak with a 77W on the afternoon flight. CHC seasonal starts today with A359 as well.

KE 748’s from today again as well.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:51 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
Kia ora, has CX started flying the A359 into AKL yet? I’m on a CDG flight with them via HKG next Saturday and am hoping it’ll be the new plane and the new Y+


Only over a year ago, they they are back to 2 daily from today for the summer peak with a 77W on the afternoon flight. CHC seasonal starts today with A359 as well.

KE 748’s from today again as well.


Damn, just got my itinerary and booked on the afternoon 77W. Was hoping for their new Y+ on the A359. Am waitlisted for Y+ on return on A359 as it’s currently booked out.
come visit the south pacific
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:21 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I suppose there may come a time when we will snap 8 737s and A320 in a row at the new pier - maybe first thing in the morning! Nice to see the pictures of the new gates. Thank you :)


We've seen 7 already, so 8 will be very likely :-)

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 76460.html

Cheers
micha
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1071
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:13 am

Hi All

can somebody help me with the registration of this aircraft:

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 71005.html

I tried to find it, but without airline/operator it is difficult, I assume it is a Beech, and it looks like "Starship" on the tail?

Cheers
micha
 
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ernestxwb
Posts: 46
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:21 am

zkojq wrote:
ernestxwb wrote:
I don't think there needs to be more capacity added to the HKG route. In the summer there are 5 daily flights running between AKL and HKG as well as one from CHC. HX are offering dirt cheap fares particularly when you originate from HKG. Maybe a retiming of flights would be more appropriate if NZ wants to optimize EZE connections from HKG.

I thought that HX were struggling in terms of loadfactors?

I've heard that too, passengers are mostly made up of low yielding groups and connecting passengers from mainland China. They apparently do very well with freight though.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:34 am

zkeoj wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
I suppose there may come a time when we will snap 8 737s and A320 in a row at the new pier - maybe first thing in the morning! Nice to see the pictures of the new gates. Thank you :)


We've seen 7 already, so 8 will be very likely :-)

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 76460.html

Cheers
micha


That was taken in 2016. But yes I’m sure you will see 8 narrow bodies at the new pier together.

zkeoj wrote:
Hi All

can somebody help me with the registration of this aircraft:

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 71005.html

I tried to find it, but without airline/operator it is difficult, I assume it is a Beech, and it looks like "Starship" on the tail?

Cheers
micha


ZK-SSH I think? Yes it’s a beech. Can’t remember who operates it.
 
Whoopeecock
Posts: 8
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:58 am

zkeoj wrote:
Hi All

can somebody help me with the registration of this aircraft:

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 71005.html

I tried to find it, but without airline/operator it is difficult, I assume it is a Beech, and it looks like "Starship" on the tail?

Cheers
micha


Yes, it’s the Starship Hospital plane, ZK SSH.

http://nzcivair.blogspot.co.nz/2015/06/ ... -nzwn.html
 
ZKNCI
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:07 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

zkeoj wrote:
Hi All

can somebody help me with the registration of this aircraft:

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/ph ... 71005.html

I tried to find it, but without airline/operator it is difficult, I assume it is a Beech, and it looks like "Starship" on the tail?

Cheers
micha


ZK-SSH I think? Yes it’s a beech. Can’t remember who operates it.


Yes, that's ZK-SSH, a Beech King Air 350 (FL-328) registered to Skyline Aviation. It's been flying as an air ambulance since 2015, its colourscheme representing Starship Children's Hospital (and the registration does too, StarShip Hospital -> SSH)

planemanofnz wrote:
It is nice to see regional carriers like this one investing in new equipment.

It's interesting how Barrier Air's fleet has scaled back since they got their Caravan, now down to just it and one Islander. Would be nice to see the fleet grow again and get more small-scale action going. FlyMySky seems happy to stick with Islanders; they do the job and are even still in production. Doubt they'll go for a single turbine as Barrier Air did, as they make a point on their site of the fact they only fly twins to Great Barrier... Two engines to Barrier! :D :duck:
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:13 am

Oh for sea planes over twin islanders.... it's okay to dream about twin otters isn't it? Imagine the day when you could land at Tryphena again - and direct from Auckland harbour!
 
ZKNCI
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:40 am

NZ321 wrote:
Oh for sea planes over twin islanders.... it's okay to dream about twin otters isn't it? Imagine the day when you could land at Tryphena again - and direct from Auckland harbour!

Here's to the Twin Otter dream! :highfive:
For some reason, however, the Twin Otter just never seems to have gained traction here. Hopefully Auckland Seaplanes can build up enough traffic to justify growth. If anything though, I feel Caravan amphibians would be the likely growth (just a personal feeling on what could grow from/replace a Beaver. Not that there's anything wrong with a pair of Beavers! It's very nice seeing them coming and going in the harbour)
 
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aerorobnz
Posts: 7941
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:41 am

Gate 17 has been leaking since the last thunderstorm. Quality New Zealand building standards,,,
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ321
Posts: 414
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:54 pm

Is it the airbridge or the lounge?
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:26 pm

ZKNCI wrote:
It's interesting how Barrier Air's fleet has scaled back since they got their Caravan, now down to just it and one Islander. Would be nice to see the fleet grow again and get more small-scale action going. FlyMySky seems happy to stick with Islanders; they do the job and are even still in production. Doubt they'll go for a single turbine as Barrier Air did, as they make a point on their site of the fact they only fly twins to Great Barrier... Two engines to Barrier! :D :duck:

The advantage the Caravan has over the Islander is you can fit more in it, both in terms of weight and bulk. As far as number and type of engines, give me one PT6 over two recips any day of the week.

Recently Barrier Air's Facebook page carried a photo of a Cessna Caravan N2057. FlightAware shows this particular aircraft last flew just over a week ago, from Bridgeport, Connecticut to Leesburg, Florida. Leesburg happens to be the location of a facility for Wipaire, who make a number of modifications for Cessna Caravans, including floats, single point fueling, exhaust deflector, extended baggage kits, de-ice, and air conditioning. Meanwhile, looking at the CAA aircraft register and available registrations, I note that the next in sequence after ZK-SDB which Barrier Air have is ZK-SDC, which is not allocated, but also not on the list of available registrations... :scratchchin: Of course I could be reading much too much into things! I guess time will tell.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

Celebrating the Bicentenary of the Birth of Bahá'u'lláh, 21-22 October 2017
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:01 pm

Thanks all re ZK-SSH - very much appreciated! What a beautiful plane that is :-)

Re sreaplanes: Yes please! I love the busy traffic in the Pacific Northwest (Lake Union, Vancouver, Victoria, etc....).
 
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zkojq
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:06 am

I checked out Gate 17. Quite similar to Gate 16, actually, though with a few more windows. Not sure why they're not all built in a straight line (you go slightly right from 16 to get to 17).
Most recent planes I've been in: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, B737-600 LN-RPA, B737-700 OY-JTY, B737-800 LN-NGA, B767-300 ZK-NCI, B777-300 ZK-OKN, B787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
USAOZ
Posts: 303
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:23 am

Air Asia X cutbacks on KUL/OOL(by 36%), will obviously mean cutbacks to OOL/AKL.

36% seems an odd amount. Think they fly daily now, so cutting back from daily to 5 flights a week is a 28.5% cutback & cuttiing back to 4/week is a 42.8% cutback if my maths are correct, unless referring to actual seat counts & they are using different aircraft or aircraft with different seat configs.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... sia-386234


Could never understand why the OOL/AKL flights weren't split to say 1/2 OOL/AKL & 1/2 OOL/CHC where there seems to be much less competition.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:34 am

USAOZ wrote:
Air Asia X cutbacks on KUL/OOL(by 36%), will obviously mean cutbacks to OOL/AKL.

36% seems an odd amount. Think they fly daily now, so cutting back from daily to 5 flights a week is a 28.5% cutback & cuttiing back to 4/week is a 42.8% cutback if my maths are correct, unless referring to actual seat counts & they are using different aircraft or aircraft with different seat configs.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... sia-386234


Could never understand why the OOL/AKL flights weren't split to say 1/2 OOL/AKL & 1/2 OOL/CHC where there seems to be much less competition.


They fly 11 weekly KUL-OOL, I’d imagine it will be reduced to daily. They talked about OOL-CHC If AKL went non stop which they haven’t announced anything atleast yet.
 
USAOZ
Posts: 303
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:44 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Air Asia X cutbacks on KUL/OOL(by 36%), will obviously mean cutbacks to OOL/AKL.

36% seems an odd amount. Think they fly daily now, so cutting back from daily to 5 flights a week is a 28.5% cutback & cuttiing back to 4/week is a 42.8% cutback if my maths are correct, unless referring to actual seat counts & they are using different aircraft or aircraft with different seat configs.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... sia-386234


Could never understand why the OOL/AKL flights weren't split to say 1/2 OOL/AKL & 1/2 OOL/CHC where there seems to be much less competition.


They fly 11 weekly KUL-OOL, I’d imagine it will be reduced to daily. They talked about OOL-CHC If AKL went non stop which they haven’t announced anything atleast yet.

ok thanks. Didn't realise they went 11/week KUL/OOL. How many continue onto AKL at present ?
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:24 am

planemanofnz wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
So let's go through the points, because yes I'm getting my rant on.

You say this, but yet you did not address many of the key points that I already


A few reasons.

1. I'm conscious of endless back and forths with lengthy replies that dominate a thread, get repetitive and suck the joy out of life.

2. If you steadfastly believe that Wellington is the diplomatic equivalent of Geneva, then I just can't.

3. I thought the end of November was a nice way to leave the argument there.

If you want to continue, go for gold. But I think I finally understand the common refrain of another long-time member here... I shrug :)
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:27 am

On the new gate 17 at AKL... just wow. They couldn't even maintain consistency in architecture for an add-on to a recent extension. I thought AIAL had hired an architect to create consistency. No?

The haphazard, cheapest possible mishmash roles on!
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:58 am

USAOZ wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
USAOZ wrote:
Air Asia X cutbacks on KUL/OOL(by 36%), will obviously mean cutbacks to OOL/AKL.

36% seems an odd amount. Think they fly daily now, so cutting back from daily to 5 flights a week is a 28.5% cutback & cuttiing back to 4/week is a 42.8% cutback if my maths are correct, unless referring to actual seat counts & they are using different aircraft or aircraft with different seat configs.

https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... sia-386234


Could never understand why the OOL/AKL flights weren't split to say 1/2 OOL/AKL & 1/2 OOL/CHC where there seems to be much less competition.


They fly 11 weekly KUL-OOL, I’d imagine it will be reduced to daily. They talked about OOL-CHC If AKL went non stop which they haven’t announced anything atleast yet.

ok thanks. Didn't realise they went 11/week KUL/OOL. How many continue onto AKL at present ?


OOL-AKL is daily.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:50 am

Gate 17 was internal gates. The carpets were soggy with puddles of water and have had carpet dryer fans for days trying to dry it all out. It looked like the bottom floor of my hotel in IAH shortly after the flooding. That's what you get for rushing. It was supposed to be ready for Feb/Mar..apparent 18 is also going to be a little earlier than expected, but I don't know if that includes the drying time.
Flown to 128 Airports in 48 Countries on 81 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:25 am

Mishmash sounds predictable and as I feared. A shame really. Still - better to have the gates than not. Did I hear mention of gate 19 in the near future?
 
waoz1
Posts: 163
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:04 am

Air NZ new lounge in Perth opened today
https://www.ausbt.com.au/review-air-new ... ass-lounge
 
PA515
Posts: 1130
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:12 pm

Air NZ ATR72-500 ZK-MCW (c/n 646) appears to have been sold. The 'For Sale' listing on http://www.controller.com has been removed and it has been at CHC since 17 Nov, only doing a CHC-WLG-CHC on 21 Nov and a CHC-WLG-CHC on 26 Nov.

PA515
 
winGl3t
Posts: 218
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:11 pm

Does anyone have a clue on how is the LF for AKL-EZE?

Next year Argentina Authority will move half of the international flights from AEP to EZE (and from 2018 all international flights will move to EZE). Hope this movement brings more connecting opportunities for NZ to cities such as SAO, RIO and SCL.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:43 pm

winGl3t wrote:
Does anyone have a clue on how is the LF for AKL-EZE?

Next year Argentina Authority will move half of the international flights from AEP to EZE (and from 2018 all international flights will move to EZE). Hope this movement brings more connecting opportunities for NZ to cities such as SAO, RIO and SCL.


Certainly seems to be doing well with increases each year in peak atleast NW, there will be a 4th flight through April 2018 up from 3 as well.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - December 2017

Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 pm

Following on from discussion about the smaller airline operators earlier in this thread, Air Milford have received another Caravan: http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/2017/1 ... lford.html

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

Celebrating the Bicentenary of the Birth of Bahá'u'lláh, 21-22 October 2017

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