jetwet1 wrote:I can't answer directly, but in my company, we are remodeling all the public restrooms. We spent months planning this down to the last detail, we took one out of service at one of our properties at the beginning of October, we had a time line of 3 weeks to gut and install 16 stalls, 8 urinals and 10 sinks, the gutting went quickly, now at every turn there is a problem, cracked pipes, flooring that has to be replaced, it's just a nightmare.
Anyways, my point is, you do one so everyone has a feel for the things that are right and the things that have to be rethought, this could be what is happening with the lounges.
aaexecplat wrote:As someone who is currently going through the pre-construction phase on my home...there are delays everwhere. Architects don't always make as much headway as one wants...if structural engineering challenges arise (all these lounges will require serious structural rework) it causes delays. Permits can take forever to get. And during construction, problems are found that were unknown, some of which may require reworking the original plan etc...you get the idea. Unless you build something on an empty lot, things often get delayed a ton.
jetwet1 wrote:I can't answer directly, but in my company, we are remodeling all the public restrooms. We spent months planning this down to the last detail, we took one out of service at one of our properties at the beginning of October, we had a time line of 3 weeks to gut and install 16 stalls, 8 urinals and 10 sinks, the gutting went quickly, now at every turn there is a problem, cracked pipes, flooring that has to be replaced, it's just a nightmare.
Anyways, my point is, you do one so everyone has a feel for the things that are right and the things that have to be rethought, this could be what is happening with the lounges.
ikolkyo wrote:It’s not plug and play, a serious amount of thought and planning goes into these things.
Rdh3e wrote:At ORD the construction took over a year. After opening they discovered that the uptake by customers far exceeded expectations so they will likely have to close it down and expand it at some point to alleviate the fact that it's always full. I think that experience caused a rethink and redesign of all the other hub clubs.
Cointrin330 wrote:The Polaris brand and experience were officially launched December 1st 2016. A year later, there is 1 Polaris lounge in operation (at ORD), and 15 planes have the full product (all 14 777-300ERs and 1 767-300ER). AA seems to be rolling out its new Flagship lounges at a faster pace, though its premium cabin product is all over the place depending on the plane you fly.
What are the issues with UA's slower roll out of Polaris?
jumbojet wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:The Polaris brand and experience were officially launched December 1st 2016. A year later, there is 1 Polaris lounge in operation (at ORD), and 15 planes have the full product (all 14 777-300ERs and 1 767-300ER). AA seems to be rolling out its new Flagship lounges at a faster pace, though its premium cabin product is all over the place depending on the plane you fly.
What are the issues with UA's slower roll out of Polaris?
Wow, that's ridiculous. 1 refurbished airplane after over a year? and its a 767 to boot? Badly played by United. After gushing about and hyping the Polaris product, all they can come up with is one modded 767 with the new Polaris product from head to tail in over a year; sad. By now, people go to United and see Polaris on the website when they go to book a business class ticket only to find out that its really not Polaris in the true sense. Has United fixed that by the way? Truly false advertising.
Cointrin330 wrote:The Polaris brand and experience were officially launched December 1st 2016. A year later, there is 1 Polaris lounge in operation (at ORD), and 15 planes have the full product (all 14 777-300ERs and 1 767-300ER). AA seems to be rolling out its new Flagship lounges at a faster pace, though its premium cabin product is all over the place depending on the plane you fly.
What are the issues with UA's slower roll out of Polaris?
catiii wrote:jumbojet wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:The Polaris brand and experience were officially launched December 1st 2016. A year later, there is 1 Polaris lounge in operation (at ORD), and 15 planes have the full product (all 14 777-300ERs and 1 767-300ER). AA seems to be rolling out its new Flagship lounges at a faster pace, though its premium cabin product is all over the place depending on the plane you fly.
What are the issues with UA's slower roll out of Polaris?
Wow, that's ridiculous. 1 refurbished airplane after over a year? and its a 767 to boot? Badly played by United. After gushing about and hyping the Polaris product, all they can come up with is one modded 767 with the new Polaris product from head to tail in over a year; sad. By now, people go to United and see Polaris on the website when they go to book a business class ticket only to find out that its really not Polaris in the true sense. Has United fixed that by the way? Truly false advertising.
Ah yes, the usual poster bashing anyone but DL.
First off, it's 10% of the longhaul fleet that has the Polaris cabin hard product. Go do the math. And as noted above, it's a Zodiac issue. It took AA 5 years to do its retrofit. It took DL 6 years to its retrofit.
So if you're going to apply your usual manufactured outrage to anyone that isn't DL, apply it fairly and to DL as well.
StrandedAtMKG wrote:"Why Does UA Struggle With Polaris Lounge Roll Outs?"
Because UA struggles with everything, despite having been in the airline business for 90 years.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact that they're rolling out new lounges and new Polaris class onboard seems like a pretty good indication that they intend to stick with their dated, hideous, and widely panned branding for the foreseeable future. As keesje pointed out, the color scheme in Polaris is godawful. If I wanted to see grey and blue walls three inches from my face I'd go to my office.
jetmatt777 wrote:Actually there are some significant changes on the way, to all aspects of the experience (inside and outside).
Starting next year, passengers on international flights are going to get an unwelcome surprise: even less room in economy on United planes. The airline made the decision that come January, a plane designed for domestic flights – the Boeing 777-200 with 336 seats in economy – will be used internationally.
jumbojet wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:Actually there are some significant changes on the way, to all aspects of the experience (inside and outside).
Do you mean this? You’ll Get Even Less Space on Transatlantic Flights with United Next Year?
Basically, United sees high demand to Europe for S18 so they figure the best way to accommodate the demand is to cram even more people onto its domestic 777's and fly them internationally. Brilliant move, really just brilliant.
Starting next year, passengers on international flights are going to get an unwelcome surprise: even less room in economy on United planes. The airline made the decision that come January, a plane designed for domestic flights – the Boeing 777-200 with 336 seats in economy – will be used internationally.
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/un ... idays.html
airzim wrote:jumbojet wrote:jetmatt777 wrote:Actually there are some significant changes on the way, to all aspects of the experience (inside and outside).
Do you mean this? You’ll Get Even Less Space on Transatlantic Flights with United Next Year?
Basically, United sees high demand to Europe for S18 so they figure the best way to accommodate the demand is to cram even more people onto its domestic 777's and fly them internationally. Brilliant move, really just brilliant.
Starting next year, passengers on international flights are going to get an unwelcome surprise: even less room in economy on United planes. The airline made the decision that come January, a plane designed for domestic flights – the Boeing 777-200 with 336 seats in economy – will be used internationally.
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/un ... idays.html
Having a discussion with you is pointless.
However, what Matt seems to be implying is to expect a change in styling, possibly livery and aesthetics from the current scheme. Hence “inside and out”
As for the “domestic” 777. They all have lie flat in J. Just like the current J seat on sUA 777s. Economy is tighter, but no different from other Y configurations on AF, EK, AC, LX, some AA planes, etc. Its hardly uncompetitive with most other carriers.
The conventional wisdom is they needed this swap to ramp in the Polaris installs on the sUA fleet. Given they’ve stopped selling Polaris First.
jumbojet wrote:airzim wrote:jumbojet wrote:
Do you mean this? You’ll Get Even Less Space on Transatlantic Flights with United Next Year?
Basically, United sees high demand to Europe for S18 so they figure the best way to accommodate the demand is to cram even more people onto its domestic 777's and fly them internationally. Brilliant move, really just brilliant.![]()
https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/un ... idays.html
Having a discussion with you is pointless.
However, what Matt seems to be implying is to expect a change in styling, possibly livery and aesthetics from the current scheme. Hence “inside and out”
As for the “domestic” 777. They all have lie flat in J. Just like the current J seat on sUA 777s. Economy is tighter, but no different from other Y configurations on AF, EK, AC, LX, some AA planes, etc. Its hardly uncompetitive with most other carriers.
The conventional wisdom is they needed this swap to ramp in the Polaris installs on the sUA fleet. Given they’ve stopped selling Polaris First.
Because I point out UA shortfalls? These are some significant issues UA is facing. Believe me when I say, I am chomping at the bit to try United but not the United of today. (It will make my life much easier to travel to Newark as opposed to JFK when I retire from where I live). So, United is going to fly domestic 777s overseas which means, and correct me if I am wrong, the Polaris (if you can call it that) cabin is in a mind numbing 2-4-2 configuration? UA is regressing, not advancing. I'll still travel to Newark but it will mean taking a double connection on DL until Polaris can guarantee me a flat bed direct aisle access seat on every widebody plane.
ua900 wrote:As for the lounges, places like EWR C120 were a nightmare before the remodel, completely overcrowded, poor food choices, enjoy your hard earned stay. SFO was so good that people flooded Amex Centurion. If there's a message here for UA in regards to clubs it's that they need to up the price (or comp less) while also drastically improving the product (to Centurion levels) and my best guess is that they aren't able to do this as long as Sodexo style catering is in place. If Amex opens up in EWR, ORD or LAX UA clubs are toast, and that includes the Polaris club at ORD.
airzim wrote:That J seat, while not as competitive as some seats today, has been flying passengers for something like 20 years. Not terribly different from BA’s product, and not far off the mark from EK 777s with 2-3-2 angled flat configurations on ULH sectors. So spare the melodrama about how uncompetive UA is.
airzim wrote:[
FYI, DL and AA can’t gurantee you lie flat with direct aisle access either.
JHwk wrote:airzim wrote:That J seat, while not as competitive as some seats today, has been flying passengers for something like 20 years. Not terribly different from BA’s product, and not far off the mark from EK 777s with 2-3-2 angled flat configurations on ULH sectors. So spare the melodrama about how uncompetive UA is.
I'll chime in. While I enjoy the "domestic" 777's more than being in J on a 739, I would be quite surprised if I was stuck on one as a substitution for a TPAC flight. Economy is going to suck either way, but when you purchase and "are promised" a lie-flat bed and end up huddled in the footrest mid-flight you aren't going to be happy.
Much more than GUM-HNL on the 77E is painful.
VC10er wrote:United is improving- the point of this thread is that it’s going slowly.
The old seat was fine until you fly true Polaris on a 77W, then it’s tough going backwards. .
ua900 wrote:Having said that, the glass globes in which their serve their sundaes apparently shattered easily when exposed to cold, their entertainment systems were still subject to snafus, their amenity kits didn't become any better, they took away the plastic goblets and the piece of chocolate for pre-departure, and their food didn't become better.
jumbojet wrote:VC10er wrote:United is improving- the point of this thread is that it’s going slowly.
The old seat was fine until you fly true Polaris on a 77W, then it’s tough going backwards. .
Bingo.. which is why going from Delta to United for me doesn't make sense at this point. It would be like stepping into a time machine and going back 10 years. I believe DL started direct aisle access flat bed seating in 2010 and on April 22nd, 2014 they became the only U.S. carrier with full flat-bed seats featuring direct-aisle access on all widebody overseas flights. Once you have that level of flying, its tough to go back.
drdisque wrote:Yes, the original concept was that they would carve the Polaris lounges out of the footprints of existing United Clubs (without substantially altering the number of United Clubs). Now that that's clear that won't work from a capacity and practicality standpoint, they're having to rethink it.
catiii wrote:jumbojet wrote:Cointrin330 wrote:The Polaris brand and experience were officially launched December 1st 2016. A year later, there is 1 Polaris lounge in operation (at ORD), and 15 planes have the full product (all 14 777-300ERs and 1 767-300ER). AA seems to be rolling out its new Flagship lounges at a faster pace, though its premium cabin product is all over the place depending on the plane you fly.
What are the issues with UA's slower roll out of Polaris?
Wow, that's ridiculous. 1 refurbished airplane after over a year? and its a 767 to boot? Badly played by United. After gushing about and hyping the Polaris product, all they can come up with is one modded 767 with the new Polaris product from head to tail in over a year; sad. By now, people go to United and see Polaris on the website when they go to book a business class ticket only to find out that its really not Polaris in the true sense. Has United fixed that by the way? Truly false advertising.
Ah yes, the usual poster bashing anyone but DL.
First off, it's 10% of the longhaul fleet that has the Polaris cabin hard product. Go do the math. And as noted above, it's a Zodiac issue. It took AA 5 years to do its retrofit. It took DL 6 years to its retrofit.
So if you're going to apply your usual manufactured outrage to anyone that isn't DL, apply it fairly and to DL as well.
jumbojet wrote:Overly negative comment from a DL fanboy
airzim wrote:It’s not a “domestic” 777. Those planes fly TPAC HNL/GUM/NRT rotations today. Some with stage lengths exceeded those of EWR TATL sectors for aforementioned cities.
Cointrin330 wrote:catiii wrote:jumbojet wrote:
Wow, that's ridiculous. 1 refurbished airplane after over a year? and its a 767 to boot? Badly played by United. After gushing about and hyping the Polaris product, all they can come up with is one modded 767 with the new Polaris product from head to tail in over a year; sad. By now, people go to United and see Polaris on the website when they go to book a business class ticket only to find out that its really not Polaris in the true sense. Has United fixed that by the way? Truly false advertising.
Ah yes, the usual poster bashing anyone but DL.
First off, it's 10% of the longhaul fleet that has the Polaris cabin hard product. Go do the math. And as noted above, it's a Zodiac issue. It took AA 5 years to do its retrofit. It took DL 6 years to its retrofit.
So if you're going to apply your usual manufactured outrage to anyone that isn't DL, apply it fairly and to DL as well.
Yeah, I wasn't bashing UA. I was asking a question. The one thing UA sort of does have here is that despite only 15 planes having the full Polaris offering, the business class seats across the rest of the 763, 764, 772, 752 fleets are a lot more consistent generally than what AA has in terms of seats which come from a variety of manufacturers for different reasons.
airzim wrote:FYI, DL and AA can’t gurantee you lie flat with direct aisle access either.
catiii wrote:First off, it's 10% of the longhaul fleet that has the Polaris cabin hard product. Go do the math. And as noted above, it's a Zodiac issue. It took AA 5 years to do its retrofit. It took DL 6 years to its retrofit.
So if you're going to apply your usual manufactured outrage to anyone that isn't DL, apply it fairly and to DL as well.
OB1504 wrote:airzim wrote:FYI, DL and AA can’t gurantee you lie flat with direct aisle access either.
AA can. Last angled lie-flat 777 with 2-3-2 was retrofitted in September and the last angled lie-flat 767 with 2-2-2 was retired around the same time
OB1504 wrote:AA can. Last angled lie-flat 777 with 2-3-2 was retrofitted in September and the last angled lie-flat 767 with 2-2-2 was retired around the same time.
OB1504 wrote:airzim wrote:FYI, DL and AA can’t gurantee you lie flat with direct aisle access either.
AA can. Last angled lie-flat 777 with 2-3-2 was retrofitted in September and the last angled lie-flat 767 with 2-2-2 was retired around the same time.