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Qatara340
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Qatar Airways reconfirms and upsizes its order for 50 A321neo ACF

Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:16 am

French President Macron is making a State visit to Qatar, and today he has signed an agreement with His Highness the Amir of Qatar Sheik Tamim an order of 50 A321 jets with an option for 30 more--in addition to 12 fighter jets and hundreds of armored vehicles (separate forum I know).

Good job for both France and Qatar.
Last edited by SQ22 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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KarelXWB
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:25 am

Is it a new order, or a conversion of the existing A320 order as was speculated some time ago?

Image
https://twitter.com/FranckMathevon/stat ... 2733561856
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Qatara340
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:53 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Is it a new order, or a conversion of the existing A320 order as was speculated some time ago?

Image
https://twitter.com/FranckMathevon/stat ... 2733561856


Its a whole new order--not the converted one.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 am

It is funny how smooth things goes when AAB is not at the table.
Great order for both Airbus and QR.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:03 am

Qatara340 wrote:
Its a whole new order--not the converted one.


Hmmm, maybe. :scratchchin:

The cynic in me suspects that QR's original neo order will quietly be cancelled at some point. Smoke and mirrors, I think.

Engine choice will be interesting.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:15 am

scbriml wrote:
The cynic in me suspects that QR's original neo order will quietly be cancelled at some point. Smoke and mirrors, I think.


The original order was supposed to be converted to the A321neo:

QR to convert entire A320neo order to A321neo

Hence the question if today's announcement is a new order, or a conversion.

If it's a new order, QR will have a whopping 100 A321neo aircraft on order. Probably too much aircraft on order, even for QR.

Engine choice will be interesting.


Apparently CFM has been selected.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:25 am

Asiaflyer wrote:
It is funny how smooth things goes when AAB is not at the table.
Great order for both Airbus and QR.
#

Just curious, where is he??
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:29 am

Per Reuters, it turns out to be a conversion:

Qatar Airways has signed deal during visit by French president to buy 50 A321neo with CFM engines, replacing earlier deal for 50 A320neo powered by Pratt & Whitney (of which 4 had already been cancelled).


https://twitter.com/ReutersAero/status/ ... 5435284480

Note however that the original A320neo order consisted of 34 A320neo and 16 A321neo aircraft.
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scbriml
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:02 am

KarelXWB wrote:
The original order was supposed to be converted to the A321neo:

QR to convert entire A320neo order to A321neo

Hence the question if today's announcement is a new order, or a conversion.


Yes, hence my cynicism if this was being touted as a "new" order.

KarelXWB wrote:
Note however that the original A320neo order consisted of 34 A320neo and 16 A321neo aircraft.


Reduced to 30 A320neo after those hissy-fit cancellations.

So, is this 50 A321neo in addition to the existing 16 (i.e. 30 A320 conversions plus 20 new) or does this 50 entirely replace the original neo order?

As clear as mud. :confused:
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:22 am

scbriml wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
The original order was supposed to be converted to the A321neo:

QR to convert entire A320neo order to A321neo

Hence the question if today's announcement is a new order, or a conversion.


Yes, hence my cynicism if this was being touted as a "new" order.

KarelXWB wrote:
Note however that the original A320neo order consisted of 34 A320neo and 16 A321neo aircraft.


Reduced to 30 A320neo after those hissy-fit cancellations.

So, is this 50 A321neo in addition to the existing 16 (i.e. 30 A320 conversions plus 20 new) or does this 50 entirely replace the original neo order?

As clear as mud. :confused:


I guess we have to wait for Airbus' orderbook to be updated before we know for sure.
Was the conversion to 16 A321s already a firm order on Airbus' site, and was the change to CFM engines firm too? If not, I can see why it's called a new order. I suppose will see things reflected in Airbus final order figures somewhere next month.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:35 am

frigatebird wrote:
Was the conversion to 16 A321s already a firm order on Airbus' site, and was the change to CFM engines firm too?


QR's original order was for 34 A320neo and 16 A321neo, all PW powered. QR subsequently cancelled their first 4 A320neo as the PW issues became apparent. Despite lots of talk, I don't believe any other changes were made to the order before today.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am

frigatebird wrote:
Was the conversion to 16 A321s already a firm order on Airbus' site, and was the change to CFM engines firm too? If not, I can see why it's called a new order. I suppose will see things reflected in Airbus final order figures somewhere next month.


Those 16 A321neo aircraft as listed in the current order book (with P&W powerplant) were part of the original order in 2011.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:04 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
The cynic in me suspects that QR's original neo order will quietly be cancelled at some point. Smoke and mirrors, I think.


The original order was supposed to be converted to the A321neo:

QR to convert entire A320neo order to A321neo

Hence the question if today's announcement is a new order, or a conversion.

If it's a new order, QR will have a whopping 100 A321neo aircraft on order. Probably too much aircraft on order, even for QR.

Engine choice will be interesting.


Apparently CFM has been selected.


CFM ? surprizing
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KarelXWB
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:14 pm

keesje wrote:
CFM ? surprizing


Not surprising at all: the switch to CFM was considered by QR in December 2016, a year ago. See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-qata ... SKBN1410U0
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm

scbriml wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
Was the conversion to 16 A321s already a firm order on Airbus' site, and was the change to CFM engines firm too?


QR's original order was for 34 A320neo and 16 A321neo, all PW powered. QR subsequently cancelled their first 4 A320neo as the PW issues became apparent. Despite lots of talk, I don't believe any other changes were made to the order before today.


Apologies, some confusion here and I was too slow to edit my post. The timeline is quite complex and at one point in Airbus's spreadsheets, one QR A320neo 'went missing' for a few months!

Airbus announced QR's order for "50 A320neo" in November 2011. However, what was added to the O&D spreadsheet was 6 x A319, 30 x A320 and 14 x A321. This took some detective work because at that time Airbus didn't separate ceo and neo orders in their spreadsheet. I clearly remember talk at the time that QR would be the first airline to operate all three neo versions.

In November 2013, the order was changed in the O&D spreadsheet to 35 x A320 and 14 x A321. One missing somewhere! :confused:
In July 2015, the order was changed in the O&D spreadsheet to 34 x A320 and 16 x A321, restoring the missing plane.
Prior to today's announcement, the order showed as 30 x A320 and 16 x A321 as QR cancelled their first four A320 as the issues with PW engines became clear.

So it's still unclear if today's announcement completely replaces the original order, or if QR has effectively ordered an extra 20 A321s (30 conversions plus 20).

Actually, thinking about it a little more, I suspect the current PW orders will be cancelled and a new order for 50 CFM powered A321neo will be added. Almost certainly due to contractual issues with the original PW order.

In other words, a lot of fuss for Airbus to add 4 net orders to the books. :crazy:
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm

scbriml wrote:
In other words, a lot of fuss for Airbus to add 4 net orders to the books. :crazy:

If it was a completely new order Airbus would for sure have created more fuss. For now they have not yet announced it via a press release or on social media. This makes it even more likely that it's just a conversion / confirmation of their existing order + a re-order of the 4 cancellations.

But it's indeed still speculation without any further confirmation, which might only come in January when Airbus reveales their 2017 order totals.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:32 pm

Congratulations to Airbus and the 321 line! I just hope AAB does not start to cry again...
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:38 pm

scbriml wrote:
Actually, thinking about it a little more, I suspect the current PW orders will be cancelled and a new order for 50 CFM powered A321neo will be added. Almost certainly due to contractual issues with the original PW order.

Yes, contractual issues is likely why this is a new order and not a conversion. Similar to how EY cancelled their 4 outstanding A380 orders but ordered 10 new ones at the same time 9 or so years ago.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:45 pm

scbriml wrote:
In other words, a lot of fuss for Airbus to add 4 net orders to the books. :crazy:


More importantly, the signing of the contract restores the relationship between Airbus and Qatar Airways. The relationship was strained after the initial A350 and A320neo issues. As QR has agreed to re-take the A350s from Q4 2017, and A321neos in 2018, business is back to normal between both companies.
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
In other words, a lot of fuss for Airbus to add 4 net orders to the books. :crazy:


More importantly, the signing of the contract restores the relationship between Airbus and Qatar Airways. The relationship was strained after the initial A350 and A320neo issues. As QR has agreed to re-take the A350s from Q4 2017, and A321neos in 2018, business is back to normal between both companies.

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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:59 pm

Press release:

Qatar Airways has reconfirmed and upsized its earlier order for 50 A320neo with a firm order instead for 50 of the larger A321neo ACF (Airbus Cabin Flex configuration), in an order signed today in the presence of His Highness Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, the Emir of the State of Qatar, and French President Mr. Emmanuel Macron. The order was signed by Qatar Airways Group Chief Executive, His Excellency Mr. Akbar Al Baker, and Mr. Fabrice Brégier, Airbus Chief Operating Officer and President Commercial Aircraft during the French President’s visit to Doha.

The selection of the largest member of Airbus’ single family reflects the airline’s need for efficiency and additional capacity. This updated order replaces the original one placed in 2011.


https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-r ... s-releases
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:02 pm

How many A320neos remain on order for QR?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 pm

ROT371 wrote:
How many A320neos remain on order for QR?

0. QR now has these 50 A321neos on order and that is it from the Neo family.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:01 pm

So in reality, this is not a new order for the NEO, but it is for CFM. Hence why new paperwork has to be signed. Do I have that right?

Big congrats to Airbus none the less. Securing the relationship with QR is a big achievement.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:27 pm

Will any be going to "Air Italy" or all to QR ?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:33 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
Will any be going to "Air Italy" or all to QR ?


AFAIK some of the 737 MAX on order are going to Al's Italy Air Italy.
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BobMUC
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:40 pm

Airbus Press Release:

Qatar Airways reconfirms and upsizes its order for 50 A321neo ACF
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... eo-ac.html
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm

Any chance that any of these equipments will go to Meridiana?
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:26 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
In other words, a lot of fuss for Airbus to add 4 net orders to the books. :crazy:


More importantly, the signing of the contract restores the relationship between Airbus and Qatar Airways. The relationship was strained after the initial A350 and A320neo issues. As QR has agreed to re-take the A350s from Q4 2017, and A321neos in 2018, business is back to normal between both companies.
Isn't having a strained relationship normal business with QR?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:32 pm

So, as this saga concludes (for now at least!) we can conclude:

Winners: Airbus, Qatar Airways & CFM
Losers: Pratt & Whitney
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:34 pm

KLAM wrote:
Any chance that any of these equipments will go to Meridiana?

I read that most of the 737's that they currently have a LoI for, would be going to Air Italy. ;)
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:30 pm

QR will most likely lose money and yet there buying more planes.

They can't be making the money themselves, somebody is giving it to them.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:42 pm

NichCage wrote:
QR will most likely lose money and yet there buying more planes.

They can't be making the money themselves, somebody is giving it to them.


And whilst there are questionable legalities behind this from a global trade perspective “, they provide good business for A & B, and are helping to develope the state of Qatar socially and economically. I completely understand why they are sponsored.

Interesting will QR phase out the 320CEO as the smallest type in their fleet in the coming years? Seems like a big jump to the 321? Although it will give them a nice long thin plan for secondary routes to Africa and Asia.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:31 pm

NichCage wrote:
QR will most likely lose money and yet there buying more planes.

They can't be making the money themselves, somebody is giving it to them.


At least they don't get bargained 737-7s, free money, from the manufacturer ;)
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:49 am

Delivery schedule?
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:38 am

^^ yeah when are deliveries expected?
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Qatara340
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:52 am

LoganTheBogan wrote:
^^ yeah when are deliveries expected?


From what I read in the articles 2019
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:47 am

"Joining Qatar Airways’ fleet of 50 A320ceo from 2019 onwards, the A321neo ACF will support the continuous development of Qatar Airways’ network,..."
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:19 am

Is there anything to be read into the fact that after so many years and many false starts the order has slowly moved from a broad mix of A320 sizes to (now) 'max pax' with space-flex A321's (and a bigger overall order).Seems this just part of an overall trend towards maxing out.
 
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:10 pm

smi0006 wrote:

Interesting will QR phase out the 320CEO as the smallest type in their fleet in the coming years? Seems like a big jump to the 321? Although it will give them a nice long thin plan for secondary routes to Africa and Asia.


They were on the verge of a large C series order a while back. Maybe this will get resurrected, especially with th Airbus tie up to C series
 
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ROT371
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:55 pm

Really curious to see if one position of the QR A321 cargo hold will be reserved for extra fuel tanks, just like their current A321ceo.
 
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PW100
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Re: Qatar Airways buys 50 new Airbus jets

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:51 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
They were on the verge of a large C series order a while back. Maybe this will get resurrected, especially with th Airbus tie up to C series


But then they will be back in bed with awfull P&W again, reason for all this drama in the first place . . .
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