na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

The 777 retirement and scrapping thread - 2018

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:02 pm

22 years after the first 777 carried the first passenger many Triple Sevens have reached the end of a useful service life. Most 77"A"-models have been retired, many either permanently withdrawn from use or already scrapped, with numbers growing quickly. 77Es and 773s also face the axe, with pre-2000-build frames have a tough time to find a new operator.
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Varig:
772 PP-VRD (first 777 scrapped, after less than 10 years service)

Air India:
772 VT-AIR (scrapped)

British Aw.:
77E G-YMMN (crashed)

Asiana:
77E HL7742 (crashed)

JAL (all for scrap):
772 JA8981 (scrapped)
772 JA8982 (scrapped)
772 JA8983 (permanently wfu 2015, scrapped?)
773 JA8941 (scrapped)
773 JA8942 (scrapped)
773 JA8943 (scrapped)

ANA (all for scrap):
772 JA8197 (permanently wfu 2016)
772 JA8198 (permanently wfu 2017)
772 JA8199 (permanently wfu 2016)
772 JA8968 (permanently wfu 2017)

Air China (most if ot all for scrap):
772 B-2059 (permanently wfu 2016)
772 B-2060 (wfu 2017)
772 B-2061 (permanently wfu 2017)
772 B-2063 (permanently wfu 2016)
772 B-2064 (scrapped)
772 B-2065 (permanently wfu 2017)
772 B-2066 (permanently wfu 2016)

China Southern (all for scrap):
772 B-2052 (permanently wfu 2017)
772 B-2054 (permanently wfu 2017)
77E B-2055 (scrapped)
77E B-2056 (scrapped)
77E B-2057 (scrapped)
77E B-2058 (permanently wfu 2014)

Emirates:
772 A6-EMD (scrapped)
772 A6-EME (scrapped)
772 A6-EMF (scrapped)
77E A6-EMH (stored 2016)
77E A6-EMG (stored 2016)
773 A6-EMM (stored 2017)
773 A6-EMN (stored 2017)
773 A6-EMO (scrapped)
773 A6-EMP (stored 2017)
773 A6-EMW (crashed)

SQ:
77E 9V-SQE (scrapped)
77E 9V-SQF (scrapped)
77E 9V-SQG (scrapped)
77E 9V-SRI (stored 2013)
77E 9V-SVA (stored 2014)
773 9V-SYG (stored 2017)
77E 9V-SVK (stored 2015)
773 9V-SYK (permanently wfu 2015)

Scoot:
77E 9V-OTA (scrapped)
77E 9V-OTB (scrapped)
77E 9V-OTC (permanently wfu 2015)
77E 9V-OTD (permanently wfu 2015)

Malaysia:
77E 9M-MRA (stored 2016)
77E 9M-MRB (scrapped)
77E 9M-MRD (crashed)
77E 9M-MRE (stored 2016)
77E 9M-MRG (scrapped)
77E 9M-MRH (scrapped)
77E 9M-MRI (scrapped)
77E 9M-MRK (scrapped)
77E 9M-MRL (stored 2016)
77E 9M-MRM (stored 2016)
77E 9M-MRN (stored 2016)
77E 9M-MRO (crashed)
77E 9M-MRP (stored, Zimbabwe c/s, ntu?)

Thai (more 772s soon to follow into retirement):
772 HS-TJE (scrapped)
772 HS-TJF (scrapped)

Omni Air:
77E N918AX (scrapped)
77E N927AX (scrapped)

Egyptair (SU-GBS only doing backup flights):
77E SU-GBP (burned, w/o and scrapped)
77E SU-GBR (permanently wfu 2015)

Transaero (all likely for scrap):
772 EI-UNY (scrapped)
772 EI-UNZ (permanently wfu 2015)
77E EI-UNT (stored 2015, permanently wfu?)
77E EI-UNV (stored 2015, permanently wfu?)
77E EI-UNX (stored 2015, permanently wfu?)
77E EI-UNR (stored 2015, permanently wfu?)
77E EI-UNW (permanently wfu 2015)

Orenair/Rossiya:
77E VP-BHB (stored 2016)
77E VQ-BNU (stored 2016)

Nordwind:
77E VP-BJB (stored 2017)

Vim Airlines (50/50 chance at best):
77E VP-BLI (stored 2017)
77E VP-BDX (stored 2017)
77E VP-BIC (stored 2017)
77E VP-BVA (stored 2017)
77E VP-BVX (stored 2017)
77E VP-BMR (stored 2017)
77E VP-BDW (stored 2017)
77E VP-BVY (stored 2017)
77E VP-BDQ (stored 2017)
77E VP-BDR (stored 2017)
773 VP-BIN (stored 2017)
(a single 77W is also stored but will surely return to the skies)

Kuwait (old, very little chance):
77E 9K-AOA (stored 2017)
77E 9K-AOB (stored 2017)

Saudia (mixed chances, few may fly again, most won´t):
77E HZ-AKA (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKB (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKC (stored 2016)
77E HZ-AKD (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKE (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKF (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKG (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKH (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKI (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKJ (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKK (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKL (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKO (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKP (stored 2017)
77E HZ-AKS (stored 2017)
+ 9 more in coming months

Then there are the following which due to their young age should have a good chance to fly again:

Vietnam:
77E VN-A143 (stored 2017)
77E VN-A144 (stored 2017)
77E VN-A145 (stored 2017)
77E VN-A146 (stored 2017)

Kenya:
77E 5Y-KQS (stored 2017)
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 10698
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:22 pm

na wrote:
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:31 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
na wrote:
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....


Odd? Why? There is a 744 retirement thread out there as well. And thats a type not much older than the early 777-versions.
And as there is a 777 being retired almost every week now, I think such a thread will generate some interest for sure.
 
thgsr08
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:36 pm

Have any of those not scrapped yet any chance to be converted to cargo?
:checkeredflag:
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:44 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
na wrote:
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....


EI-UNY (Transaero) was formerly N767UA, one of the earliest deliveries to United 5/31/95. UA parked it as far back as March 2004, after nine years in the fleet.
VT-AIR (Air India) was the first 777 deliver to US as N766UA 5/24/95. Parked by UA in July 2003 after only 8 years in service.

N777UA was the first ship to UA delivered 5/15/95 and still flies with them as far as I know. It flew the LHR-IAD official inaugural in June 1995, but I believe N766UA flew a schedule DEN-ORD a day or two before, likely for positioning.

These are all 'A' models. Interesting that UA unloaded a couple in the early 2000s. Was traffic down? Did they need some cash? I would be interested to hear details.
 
LTCM
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:35 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:51 pm

thgsr08 wrote:
Have any of those not scrapped yet any chance to be converted to cargo?

The floor structure of the passenger 777s are made from composites and aren't strong enough for cargo operations. To convert a 777 from passenger to cargo config would require all of the floor beams to be replaced with metal ones and is considered uneconomical.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 14899
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:00 pm

na wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
na wrote:
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....


Odd? Why? There is a 744 retirement thread out there as well. And thats a type not much older than the early 777-versions.
And as there is a 777 being retired almost every week now, I think such a thread will generate some interest for sure.

I personally am very interested in retirements.

I routinely follow MD-80 and 747 active fleet sizes on airfleets. I'm very interested in A330 retirements too.

In Boeing's CMO, they predicted aircraft will drop fuel burn 1.4% per year. This is an acceleration of efficiency from the era of under $30/bbl oil. Everyone should remember that is the threshold of cheap oil. Above $30/bbl and airlines have an incentive to buy newer more efficient aircraft. In particular in today's low interest rate environment.

I look at the technology not yet in the fleet and see faster fleet turn over:
GFRP
New aluminum's
CMC materials in the turbine
New higher Mach # compressors
More electrical components (787 has broken through to now have much lower maintenance costs than hydraulic)
Wing underside laminar flow (all wings are focused on limited top side laminar flow).
Folding wingtips (I consider these a game changer as it is easy to add another floor or two to a terminal, but nearly impossible to expand land area if airport).

I see longer intervals between maintenance. To the point aircraft will be scrapped at the end of the first maintenance interval. :devil:

So we'll see more airlines follow SQ and EK and scrap wide-bodies early.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
thgsr08
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:02 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:04 pm

LTCM wrote:
thgsr08 wrote:
Have any of those not scrapped yet any chance to be converted to cargo?

The floor structure of the passenger 777s are made from composites and aren't strong enough for cargo operations. To convert a 777 from passenger to cargo config would require all of the floor beams to be replaced with metal ones and is considered uneconomical.


Nice, I had no idea.
It could be an option, if it was economy viable.
Kinda sad to see all that metal gonna "waste".
:checkeredflag:
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:30 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I personally am very interested in retirements.

I routinely follow MD-80 and 747 active fleet sizes on airfleets. I'm very interested in A330 retirements too.


So do I, especially focussing on 747 and A330, plus 777, A340 and 737 Classic servicelife statistics. Interesting observation: 777"Classics" are being retired at a higher rate than A330s. 747s have/had a longer average service life than the average 777, too.

lightsaber wrote:
In Boeing's CAMO, they predicted aircraft will drop fuel burn 1.4% per year. This is an acceleration of efficiency from the era of under $30/bbl oil. Everyone should remember that is the threshold of cheap oil. Above $30/bbl and airlines have an incentive to buy newer more efficient aircraft. In particular in today's low interest rate environment.

I look at the technology not yet in the fleet and see faster fleet turn over:
GFRP
New aluminum's
CMC materials in the turbine
New higher Mach # compressors
More electrical components (787 has broken through to now have much lower maintenance costs than hydraulic)
Wing underside laminar flow (all wings are focused on limited top side laminar flow).
Folding wingtips (I consider these a game changer as it is easy to add another floor or two to a terminal, but nearly impossible to expand land area if airport).

I see longer intervals between maintenance. To the point aircraft will be scrapped at the end of the first maintenance interval. :devil:

So we'll see more airlines follow SQ and EK and scrap wide-bodies early.

Lightsaber


I fully agree with you. Therefore, for example, under the current conditions I expect the average service life of a 77W to be 2 or 3 years/10.000 hours shorter than the average 744. This refers to pax planes, Cargo is different and the average retirement age (years&mileage) considerably higher of course.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 14899
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:41 pm

na wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I personally am very interested in retirements.

I routinely follow MD-80 and 747 active fleet sizes on airfleets. I'm very interested in A330 retirements too.


So do I, especially focussing on 747 and A330, plus 777, A340 and 737 Classic servicelife statistics. Interesting observation: 777"Classics" are being retired at a higher rate than A330s. 747s have/had a longer average service life than the average 777, too.

lightsaber wrote:
In Boeing's CAMO, they predicted aircraft will drop fuel burn 1.4% per year. This is an acceleration of efficiency from the era of under $30/bbl oil. Everyone should remember that is the threshold of cheap oil. Above $30/bbl and airlines have an incentive to buy newer more efficient aircraft. In particular in today's low interest rate environment.

I look at the technology not yet in the fleet and see faster fleet turn over:
GFRP
New aluminum's
CMC materials in the turbine
New higher Mach # compressors
More electrical components (787 has broken through to now have much lower maintenance costs than hydraulic)
Wing underside laminar flow (all wings are focused on limited top side laminar flow).
Folding wingtips (I consider these a game changer as it is easy to add another floor or two to a terminal, but nearly impossible to expand land area if airport).

I see longer intervals between maintenance. To the point aircraft will be scrapped at the end of the first maintenance interval. :devil:

So we'll see more airlines follow SQ and EK and scrap wide-bodies early.

Lightsaber


I fully agree with you. Therefore, for example, under the current conditions I expect the average service life of a 77W to be 2 or 3 years/10.000 hours shorter than the average 744. This refers to pax planes, Cargo is different and the average retirement age (years&mileage) considerably higher of course.

Cargo does extend aircraft lives.
1. Greater belly cargo is reducing the need for freighters, until recently... Ironically started by the 77W.
2. The 777 has no economical conversion path from pax to freight.
3. A330 conversions are now starting.

Those CFRP floor beams that helped sell pax 777s are dooming the same aircraft. Cest la vie.

You know... I do not know what the 787 or A350 floor beam configuration is. Does anyone know if there is a similar handicap to conversion?

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
User avatar
9MMPQ
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:49 pm

To complete/add to your list:

77E 9M-MRP stored in SZB. Readied for Air Zimbabwe but deal not completed.
77E 9M-MRQ stored in SZB. Readied for Air Zimbabwe but deal not completed.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
User avatar
ssteve
Posts: 1306
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:53 pm

Is the floor load so low that even pallets of parcels are way too heavy? If you think about it, the cardboard containers on the bottom of the pile are bearing the weight of the packages above. That is to say, cardboard is bearing that weight, not aluminum... I still have trouble believing that a 77E conversion can't handle amazon boxes on pallets as well as a 763. Is the floor really that wimpy?
 
Arion640
Posts: 1717
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:05 pm

Did BA G-ZZZD and ZZZE get scrapped or transfered elsewhere?
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75.

Brexit - It’s time to take back control
 
CF-CPI
Posts: 1448
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2000 12:54 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Did BA G-ZZZD and ZZZE get scrapped or transfered elsewhere?


Both went to Varig, in 02/2004 and 03/2004, respectively.

ZZZE became PP-VRD, indicated scrapped above. Stored 04/2006 and flown to ARG 12/2006 for said scrapping.

ZZZD left Varig as PP-VRC, 08/2006 in one piece, and was last listed as flying the the Gabon Government as of 2012. They had acquired it in 03/2007.

An airliners thread from five years ago has some nice pics. Reasonably up-to-date since not much has apparently happened to the airframes in the intervening five years:
viewtopic.php?t=539619
Last edited by CF-CPI on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
Siren
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:50 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:47 pm

na wrote:
And as there is a 777 being retired almost every week now, I think such a thread will generate some interest for sure.


There definitely is quite a bit of interest, at least from me - and thank you for taking the time to compile and present this information. This had to have taken quite a bit of time to research. It's appreciated.

I personally am quite surprised at the number of 777s that have been withdrawn by now. I thought the number was much lower - certainly fewer than 20. But, it really shouldn't be a shock or surprise. The 772 and 77E have direct replacements that are much more efficient on the same mission, so unless your capital expenses are low and you aren't burdened with high lease payments and/or high finance charges, it would probably make sense to keep running it as long as fuel remains cheap.

Seeing the number of retired and scrapped frames also puts in context Richard Anderson's comments on a conference call about 2 or 3 years ago, when he boasted about how cheaply he was getting 777s from the open market versus what Boeing wanted to charge for used ones.
Siren: single white female based @ KLAX. Aviation nerd, political wonk, disability rights activist, German car enthusiast
 
User avatar
Channex757
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:07 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:08 pm

Much of it is also driven by the changeover of airlines from an ownership model to one of some form of lease. An aircraft coming off a 20 year lease may be a better tax writeoff to the lessor than trying to maintain it and remarket for a further short lease. Hence the one way flight to Tupelo or wherever.

Islamic finance further distorts the financing model. That's a difficult subject to master but Sharia-compliant financing like Emirates and the rest of the group of airlines from Islamic countries means the asset could be fully depreciated at the end of the contract and can be sold for salvage. They also can have odd-sounding terms such as 13 year leases. I'm no expert on that but EK and EY have mentioned that it's an efficient way of financing their purchasing.

One thing I'm sure many will agree with is that today many aircraft are just more disposable than ever. Those forty year old DC Jets don't have an equivalent any more.
 
User avatar
hOMSaR
Posts: 1932
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:47 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:49 pm

CF-CPI wrote:
EI-UNY (Transaero) was formerly N767UA, one of the earliest deliveries to United 5/31/95. UA parked it as far back as March 2004, after nine years in the fleet.
VT-AIR (Air India) was the first 777 deliver to US as N766UA 5/24/95. Parked by UA in July 2003 after only 8 years in service.

N777UA was the first ship to UA delivered 5/15/95 and still flies with them as far as I know. It flew the LHR-IAD official inaugural in June 1995, but I believe N766UA flew a schedule DEN-ORD a day or two before, likely for positioning.

These are all 'A' models. Interesting that UA unloaded a couple in the early 2000s. Was traffic down? Did they need some cash? I would be interested to hear details.


UA went through bankruptcy in the early 2000s and, IIRC, rejected some leases during that period.
The plural of Airbus is Airbuses. Airbii is not a word.
There is no 787-800, nor 787-900 or 747-800. It's 787-8, 787-9, and 747-8.
A321neoLR is also unnecessary. It's simply A321LR.
Airplanes don't have isles, they have aisles.
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:05 pm

Channex757 wrote:
One thing I'm sure many will agree with is that today many aircraft are just more disposable than ever.


20 years ago there were many airlines using secondhand planes, even some reputable ones. Nowadays even airlines from the developing countries only buy new. The market for used planes is just much smaller than it has been around the year 2000.
 
UA444
Posts: 2702
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:48 pm

CF-CPI wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
na wrote:
Time to publish a list of those planes which are gone, gone soon or which are having little chance to fly again.

Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....


EI-UNY (Transaero) was formerly N767UA, one of the earliest deliveries to United 5/31/95. UA parked it as far back as March 2004, after nine years in the fleet.
VT-AIR (Air India) was the first 777 deliver to US as N766UA 5/24/95. Parked by UA in July 2003 after only 8 years in service.

N777UA was the first ship to UA delivered 5/15/95 and still flies with them as far as I know. It flew the LHR-IAD official inaugural in June 1995, but I believe N766UA flew a schedule DEN-ORD a day or two before, likely for positioning.

These are all 'A' models. Interesting that UA unloaded a couple in the early 2000s. Was traffic down? Did they need some cash? I would be interested to hear details.

They were lease rejections during UA’s bankruptcy. UA and the lessor could not agree to a price.
 
UA444
Posts: 2702
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:48 pm

What is the latest on the Transaero planes? Particularly the ex UAL ones?
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:51 pm

To add onto your list:

CZ's remaining two 77As will be retired within the next couple months (my source says 3 months but that could be wrong). Replaced by 788s.

Michael
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
na wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Sorta odd really. Most such threads on older models, seem to focus on those that are still flying....


Odd? Why? There is a 744 retirement thread out there as well. And thats a type not much older than the early 777-versions.
And as there is a 777 being retired almost every week now, I think such a thread will generate some interest for sure.

I personally am very interested in retirements.

I routinely follow MD-80 and 747 active fleet sizes on airfleets. I'm very interested in A330 retirements too.

In Boeing's CMO, they predicted aircraft will drop fuel burn 1.4% per year. This is an acceleration of efficiency from the era of under $30/bbl oil. Everyone should remember that is the threshold of cheap oil. Above $30/bbl and airlines have an incentive to buy newer more efficient aircraft. In particular in today's low interest rate environment.

I look at the technology not yet in the fleet and see faster fleet turn over:
GFRP
New aluminum's
CMC materials in the turbine
New higher Mach # compressors
More electrical components (787 has broken through to now have much lower maintenance costs than hydraulic)
Wing underside laminar flow (all wings are focused on limited top side laminar flow).
Folding wingtips (I consider these a game changer as it is easy to add another floor or two to a terminal, but nearly impossible to expand land area if airport).

I see longer intervals between maintenance. To the point aircraft will be scrapped at the end of the first maintenance interval. :devil:

So we'll see more airlines follow SQ and EK and scrap wide-bodies early.

Lightsaber


It really makes me wonder why Singapore wants to retire there A330s, it's been a while since I looked at their fleet age, but if I can remember they were not that old. Majority of them I believe are 11 years of age, which is not even that old. But I know there most definitely has to be a reason for this.
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:16 pm

Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2586
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:24 pm

Narfish641 wrote:

It really makes me wonder why Singapore wants to retire there A330s, it's been a while since I looked at their fleet age, but if I can remember they were not that old. Majority of them I believe are 11 years of age, which is not even that old. But I know there most definitely has to be a reason for this.


If I remember correctly it's down to the way the tax system works in Singapore, they get to depreciate the assets quicker so there is a sweet spot to get rid of (not so) old aircraft.
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:28 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:

It really makes me wonder why Singapore wants to retire there A330s, it's been a while since I looked at their fleet age, but if I can remember they were not that old. Majority of them I believe are 11 years of age, which is not even that old. But I know there most definitely has to be a reason for this.


If I remember correctly it's down to the way the tax system works in Singapore, they get to depreciate the assets quicker so there is a sweet spot to get rid of (not so) old aircraft.


Wow crazy. I hope they sell some or convert them at least. (Don't want to be too off topic in the thread).
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
User avatar
gatibosgru
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:41 pm

So sad PP-VRD was the first one to go. Varig was such an icon at its heydays.
@DadCelo
 
airzona11
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:42 pm

Still remember the first flight back in 1994.

Crazy that nowadays 787s and A350s have hundreds of deliveries already.

Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).


Where did you get any of your info? Yes they are converting them to DL One. No they are not 28 years old. The oldest 777 is 22 years old. DLs fleet age is less than 13 years for the 777.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 6167
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
na wrote:

Odd? Why? There is a 744 retirement thread out there as well. And thats a type not much older than the early 777-versions.
And as there is a 777 being retired almost every week now, I think such a thread will generate some interest for sure.

I personally am very interested in retirements.

I routinely follow MD-80 and 747 active fleet sizes on airfleets. I'm very interested in A330 retirements too.

In Boeing's CMO, they predicted aircraft will drop fuel burn 1.4% per year. This is an acceleration of efficiency from the era of under $30/bbl oil. Everyone should remember that is the threshold of cheap oil. Above $30/bbl and airlines have an incentive to buy newer more efficient aircraft. In particular in today's low interest rate environment.

I look at the technology not yet in the fleet and see faster fleet turn over:
GFRP
New aluminum's
CMC materials in the turbine
New higher Mach # compressors
More electrical components (787 has broken through to now have much lower maintenance costs than hydraulic)
Wing underside laminar flow (all wings are focused on limited top side laminar flow).
Folding wingtips (I consider these a game changer as it is easy to add another floor or two to a terminal, but nearly impossible to expand land area if airport).

I see longer intervals between maintenance. To the point aircraft will be scrapped at the end of the first maintenance interval. :devil:

So we'll see more airlines follow SQ and EK and scrap wide-bodies early.

Lightsaber


It really makes me wonder why Singapore wants to retire there A330s, it's been a while since I looked at their fleet age, but if I can remember they were not that old. Majority of them I believe are 11 years of age, which is not even that old. But I know there most definitely has to be a reason for this.


SQ A330’s are leased, I think they got a good deal because of the A380 delays so took A330’s as interim lift which allowed some 777’s to be retired. They liked the A330 as they got 19 then another 15 most on I believe 6-8 year leases. Some of the older 777’s are owned and have recently had or having cabin refreshes.
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:24 am

airzona11 wrote:
Still remember the first flight back in 1994.

Crazy that nowadays 787s and A350s have hundreds of deliveries already.

Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).


Where did you get any of your info? Yes they are converting them to DL One. No they are not 28 years old. The oldest 777 is 22 years old. DLs fleet age is less than 13 years for the 777.

.

Oops thats my mistake!
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:46 am

Saudia planned to retire all 77Es by year end. However, as of now, 8 or 9 are still active.
 
Rometh
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:09 pm

Did united retire there first 777-200 (ua777)
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:14 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:

It really makes me wonder why Singapore wants to retire there A330s, it's been a while since I looked at their fleet age, but if I can remember they were not that old. Majority of them I believe are 11 years of age, which is not even that old. But I know there most definitely has to be a reason for this.


If I remember correctly it's down to the way the tax system works in Singapore, they get to depreciate the assets quicker so there is a sweet spot to get rid of (not so) old aircraft.


Wow crazy. I hope they sell some or convert them at least. (Don't want to be too off topic in the thread).


The ex-Singapore A330-300s have been quite popular. TAP, Brussels Airlines, TransAsia, WOW and Hong Kong Airlines have taken all of them so far. It also helps that a cargo conversion program exists for the A330-300, it seems to have created a resale market for even the oldest A330-300s in existence.
 
DL757NYC
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:23 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).



WRONG Delta’s 777 fleet is relatively young. The last one delivered 2009. I think the avg age is 13 and Delta flys the wings off their jets. The 777 will be around at least 10 years
 
User avatar
yochai
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:29 pm

LTCM wrote:
thgsr08 wrote:
Have any of those not scrapped yet any chance to be converted to cargo?

The floor structure of the passenger 777s are made from composites and aren't strong enough for cargo operations. To convert a 777 from passenger to cargo config would require all of the floor beams to be replaced with metal ones and is considered uneconomical.


Not true, IAI Bedek has been testing a possible conversion on an ex MH 772 at TLV (9M-MRI now N105GT) and found it viable. Rumors around is the OZ will be the launch customer of the 777 P2F program (not confirmed yet)
 
IranianMan123
Posts: 184
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:05 pm

yochai wrote:
LTCM wrote:
thgsr08 wrote:
Have any of those not scrapped yet any chance to be converted to cargo?

The floor structure of the passenger 777s are made from composites and aren't strong enough for cargo operations. To convert a 777 from passenger to cargo config would require all of the floor beams to be replaced with metal ones and is considered uneconomical.


Not true, IAI Bedek has been testing a possible conversion on an ex MH 772 at TLV (9M-MRI now N105GT) and found it viable. Rumors around is the OZ will be the launch customer of the 777 P2F program (not confirmed yet)

That aircraft is listed as scrapped. Surely they would not have scrapped it if a conversion was viable.
 
User avatar
yochai
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:21 pm

IranianMan123 wrote:
yochai wrote:
LTCM wrote:
The floor structure of the passenger 777s are made from composites and aren't strong enough for cargo operations. To convert a 777 from passenger to cargo config would require all of the floor beams to be replaced with metal ones and is considered uneconomical.


Not true, IAI Bedek has been testing a possible conversion on an ex MH 772 at TLV (9M-MRI now N105GT) and found it viable. Rumors around is the OZ will be the launch customer of the 777 P2F program (not confirmed yet)

That aircraft is listed as scrapped. Surely they would not have scrapped it if a conversion was viable.

Aircraft is indeed scrapped, as it was used for spare parts (the body is still intact with wings and tail but missing many many parts) after all their testings have been completed

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... nv-436572/
 
SteelChair
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:28 pm

And it was just a few years ago that Richard Anderson said that 777 prices on the second hand market were falling rapidly and Boeing poo-pooed him....
 
User avatar
LUOCHUNHUI
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:06 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:11 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
To add onto your list:

CZ's remaining two 77As will be retired within the next couple months (my source says 3 months but that could be wrong). Replaced by 788s.

Michael


There is some information comes from Chinese self-media,said that CZ's two 777 would be retired in JAN 2017 and MAR 2017.They would fly back to CAN and finish their final check in GAMECO.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:22 pm

gatibosgru wrote:
So sad PP-VRD was the first one to go. Varig was such an icon at its heydays.

Its heydays? You mean the time after, on Varig's behest, Panair do Brasil was butchered by the junta -- with assets and routes given to Varig? But before Varig spent all of that loot and eventually ran out of money?
Fascinating story, btw, for those who don't know:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1112732/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1A9W_9xSts
There is a video version with English subtitles online somewhere, but I don't seem to find it.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
xjetflyer2001
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:20 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:32 pm

Rometh wrote:
Did united retire there first 777-200 (ua777)


I believe it is still on hand, however I haven't seen it lately, but it does rotate through Denver quite often
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:45 pm

xjetflyer2001 wrote:
Rometh wrote:
Did united retire there first 777-200 (ua777)


I believe it is still on hand, however I haven't seen it lately, but it does rotate through Denver quite often


Yes, it still flies as one of the HD domestic 777s (nose number 2477). It is in SFO at the moment, I believe.
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:47 pm

airzona11 wrote:
Still remember the first flight back in 1994.

Crazy that nowadays 787s and A350s have hundreds of deliveries already.

Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).


Where did you get any of your info? Yes they are converting them to DL One. No they are not 28 years old. The oldest 777 is 22 years old. DLs fleet age is less than 13 years for the 777.


When you talk about 1994, you must be talking about certification and/or testing because the first one didn't go into service until June 15, 1995 with United (IAD-LHR).
 
WIederling
Posts: 6320
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Those CFRP floor beams that helped sell pax 777s are dooming the same aircraft. Cest la vie.
You know... I do not know what the 787 or A350 floor beam configuration is. Does anyone know if there is a similar handicap to conversion?


There is a video around on what gets changed out on the A330 P2F conversions in EFW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmj6_ui49tM
That already goes far beyond "rip out seating and carpets, plug windows, hacksaw a freight door."
My guess would be that an A350 does need comparable effort for P2F conversion.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:27 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).



WRONG Delta’s 777 fleet is relatively young. The last one delivered 2009. I think the avg age is 13 and Delta flys the wings off their jets. The 777 will be around at least 10 years


Yes this was my mistake there. Been a while since I researched on the 777-200ER. I do know United 777-200/200ER variants are around their early 20s, so I suspect them to retire theirs in the next few years.
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
VSMUT
Posts: 1831
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:36 pm

SteelChair wrote:
And it was just a few years ago that Richard Anderson said that 777 prices on the second hand market were falling rapidly and Boeing poo-pooed him....


...and then Delta ran out and actually brought a used 777 as a part donor for much less than even Delta claimed in the first place. Brilliant move by Boeing, wiping out its own stock gains! :lol:

DL757NYC wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).



WRONG Delta’s 777 fleet is relatively young. The last one delivered 2009. I think the avg age is 13 and Delta flys the wings off their jets. The 777 will be around at least 10 years


Pretty misleading to say that Delta's 777 fleet is 13 years on average in this context. Half the fleet is very new, but the other half of the fleet is rapidly approaching 20 years. A low average age isn't going to help Delta keep it's 8 oldest 777s flying.
 
User avatar
Narfish641
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:30 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
Also I don't know if Delta is gonna do cabin refreshments on both LR and ER variants or just the LR variant. But I can most likely see their 777-200ER leaving around late 2018 or 2020. Majority of the frames are 28 years of age, and they will hit 30 very soon. They look like they are almost falling apart (Well, some of them).



WRONG Delta’s 777 fleet is relatively young. The last one delivered 2009. I think the avg age is 13 and Delta flys the wings off their jets. The 777 will be around at least 10 years


Yes this was my mistake there. Been a while since I researched on the 777-200ER. I do know United 777-200/200ER variants are around their early 20s, so I suspect them to retire theirs in the next few years.
Flew on:
SWA 737 738
 
ba9216c
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:44 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:14 pm

BA G-YMMM was the one that crashed at Heathrow. Not MMN. MMN is still operational.
 
airzona11
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:16 pm

gwrudolph wrote:

When you talk about 1994, you must be talking about certification and/or testing because the first one didn't go into service until June 15, 1995 with United (IAD-LHR).


Correct, talking about watching the actual first flight. My first 777 flight was DL CVG-LGW in July 2000
 
hunterboy
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:37 pm

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:27 pm

Nobody has mentioned CX’s venerable 777 fleet. They are still operating the first 777, B-HNL, which they bought from Boeing after the test programme was complete
 
na
Topic Author
Posts: 9568
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: The 777 retirement and scrapping thread

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:31 pm

ba9216c wrote:
BA G-YMMM was the one that crashed at Heathrow. Not MMN. MMN is still operational.


Oh, yes, thanks for the correction.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos