N766UA
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:56 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
N766UA wrote:
CLEguy wrote:
Looks like parking rates are going up $2 per day at all lots except valet.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... at_cl.html


The airport can’t even provide basic parking services (like having parking available!), and now they’re jacking up prices?! Fuuuuhuuuuu%# ###!!!!

One would argue that if the lots are always full then the prices are too low....


Who would argue that besides the dolt who decided 1 parking structure was good enough for a major airport? That's... bat S crazy. You might as well say "we'd have plenty of parking if it wasn't for all these travellers!"

Now if they said "we're raising it 2$ to fund a new parking garage," that'd be different.
 
plinth857
Posts: 77
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:25 pm

N766UA wrote:
Who would argue that besides the dolt who decided 1 parking structure was good enough for a major airport? That's... bat S crazy. You might as well say "we'd have plenty of parking if it wasn't for all these travellers!"

Now if they said "we're raising it 2$ to fund a new parking garage," that'd be different.


I'd be behind that 100%.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 928
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:34 pm

N766UA wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
N766UA wrote:

The airport can’t even provide basic parking services (like having parking available!), and now they’re jacking up prices?! Fuuuuhuuuuu%# ###!!!!

One would argue that if the lots are always full then the prices are too low....


Who would argue that besides the dolt who decided 1 parking structure was good enough for a major airport? That's... bat S crazy. You might as well say "we'd have plenty of parking if it wasn't for all these travellers!"

Now if they said "we're raising it 2$ to fund a new parking garage," that'd be different.


I wouldn’t conflate the two different ideas, on price, it would pricing theory would imply that it is currently set too low & resulting in full lots, why not capture the additional revenue and find a better equilibrium?

Regarding the garage, what’s the business case to build a new garage? Based on the Airport statements in past plain dealer articles the number of spots vs departing passengers & pricing is inline with other airports which would suggest they are inline with other marketscurrently, but assuming that there is indeed something different here, would the additional spaces in a garage facility really justify the cost of building a new structure?
1.4mm and counting...
 
ATLFlyer323
Posts: 506
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:55 pm

N766UA wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
N766UA wrote:


Who would argue that besides the dolt who decided 1 parking structure was good enough for a major airport? That's... bat S crazy. You might as well say "we'd have plenty of parking if it wasn't for all these travellers!"

Now if they said "we're raising it 2$ to fund a new parking garage," that'd be different.


God I can't agree more. Even thought I use CAK for most of my flying, whenever I do go to CLE I can never seem to remember how the parking situation works...and most lots usually show full anyways. They need to change the signing or something about the situation.
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:05 pm

ATLFlyer323 wrote:
N766UA wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:


God I can't agree more. Even thought I use CAK for most of my flying, whenever I do go to CLE I can never seem to remember how the parking situation works...and most lots usually show full anyways. They need to change the signing or something about the situation.


Post-United traffic probably came back faster than the airport anticipated and overwhelmed the parking plan. From the airport's point of view, that's a good problem to have; from the passenger's point of view, it isn't.

It's interesting that the airport says it is raising prices on parking in order to lower costs to the airlines and attract more business. If successful, that plan will also attract more cars with nowhere to park. For eastsiders, a some combination of the Red Line and Uber might be the cheaper answer. It seems nuts that parking could easily cost more than the plane ticket; but planes are efficient and parking isn't.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:13 pm

masseybrown wrote:
ATLFlyer323 wrote:
N766UA wrote:


God I can't agree more. Even thought I use CAK for most of my flying, whenever I do go to CLE I can never seem to remember how the parking situation works...and most lots usually show full anyways. They need to change the signing or something about the situation.


Post-United traffic probably came back faster than the airport anticipated and overwhelmed the parking plan. From the airport's point of view, that's a good problem to have; from the passenger's point of view, it isn't.

It's interesting that the airport says it is raising prices on parking in order to lower costs to the airlines and attract more business. If successful, that plan will also attract more cars with nowhere to park. For eastsiders, a some combination of the Red Line and Uber might be the cheaper answer. It seems nuts that parking could easily cost more than the plane ticket; but planes are efficient and parking isn't.


Parking...amazing CLE can't figure that out.

At $16 for a 5 day trip, it's $80 to park in the new price Blue Lot. You can get a lot of UBER for that $ probably a 20 mile cache around the airport. Depending on where you live, the break even point is probably 3-5 day trip. Anything longer than that, you'd be crazy not to use UBER.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:57 pm

Image

Plus there are privately operated remote lots on Snow Road.

As of right now according to the airport website, Smart (green), Red, and Blue are full. Orange is 90% full. and Brown in 80% full.

Hmm ... this was posted as a reply to Jshank. I don't know how it ended up ahead of him in the thread.
 
Jshank83
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:58 pm

Just out of curiosity from reading the last few posts what is the parking situation at CLE? Is it just one garage or are there other lots with shuttles?

My home airport has the garage attached to the terminal which is always full and some people are pretty vocal that they should raise prices (currently $25 a day/$5 for under 2 hours) for people parking for over 24 hours to push them to the surface lots (some as low as $7 a day). It keeps people who want to go in and meet people at security from being able to do that. My home airport has lots of surface lot options though if they were to raise prices to try to get people to park elsewhere, I can't tell if CLE has the same options by the previous posts.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:38 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Just out of curiosity from reading the last few posts what is the parking situation at CLE? Is it just one garage or are there other lots with shuttles?

My home airport has the garage attached to the terminal which is always full and some people are pretty vocal that they should raise prices (currently $25 a day/$5 for under 2 hours) for people parking for over 24 hours to push them to the surface lots (some as low as $7 a day). It keeps people who want to go in and meet people at security from being able to do that. My home airport has lots of surface lot options though if they were to raise prices to try to get people to park elsewhere, I can't tell if CLE has the same options by the previous posts.


Cleveland currently has 4 lots & 1 garage available, I believe 2 of the lots are covered parking (Blue & Red) & 1 is operated by shuttle (Brown).

Someone asked earlier how large each of the lots are, Bestparking has similar numbers for most of these, but here's what I saw through news reports & the best parking numbers when I couldn't find a source:
Red Lot - 241 Spots - http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... d_hop.html
Blue Lot - 640 Spots - https://www.bestparking.com/cleveland-airport-parking/
Orange Lot - 1,000 Spots - 1,000 http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... _open.html
Brown Lot - 500 Spots - http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... cleve.html
Garage (Included Valet) - 4,240 Spots - https://www.bestparking.com/cleveland-airport-parking/
Total: 6,621
1.4mm and counting...
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:44 am

Some capital improvements coming for CLE. I don't think it's the same list us on this forum would put together, but it's something.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... ments.html

Some of the pictures show what looks to be new, multi airline check in kiosks which is something many airports employ, but not yet at CLE.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... _seek.html
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:45 pm

Both the PD and Crains Cleveland reported that first quarter 2018 traffic was up about 200K, from 1.9 million to 2.1 million, about 10%. If that rate, slightly under January by itself, holds, CLE could hit 10 million a year ahead of Kennedy's forecast. No wonder the parking lots are crowded - it's almost all O&D..
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:58 pm

Also, WN operated flight 8511 MCI-CLE last night. Are they practicing? ;)
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:12 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Also, WN operated flight 8511 MCI-CLE last night. Are they practicing? ;)


And the Tribe's playing Baltimore not KC!
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:42 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Both the PD and Crains Cleveland reported that first quarter 2018 traffic was up about 200K, from 1.9 million to 2.1 million, about 10%. If that rate, slightly under January by itself, holds, CLE could hit 10 million a year ahead of Kennedy's forecast. No wonder the parking lots are crowded - it's almost all O&D..


It's pretty funny how a fair amount of a.netters (some "well respected" back in the day) thought CLE would be at 5 million pax or less annually after UA left. Amazing growth considering CLE isn't a large hub or connecting point for anyone now and TATL hasn't even started yet. I'm thinking F9s draw down will pull the growth percentage lower in the summer though.
 
swacle
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:51 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Also, WN operated flight 8511 MCI-CLE last night. Are they practicing? ;)


Position ferry due to a cancelled MDW-CLE flight in anticipation of a snow/freezing rain event overnight in Chicago.
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:57 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Also, WN operated flight 8511 MCI-CLE last night. Are they practicing? ;)


I sure hope so! I heard rumblings that WN might start this route... hoping the rumors are true!
 
plinth857
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:00 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
masseybrown wrote:
Both the PD and Crains Cleveland reported that first quarter 2018 traffic was up about 200K, from 1.9 million to 2.1 million, about 10%. If that rate, slightly under January by itself, holds, CLE could hit 10 million a year ahead of Kennedy's forecast. No wonder the parking lots are crowded - it's almost all O&D..


It's pretty funny how a fair amount of a.netters (some "well respected" back in the day) thought CLE would be at 5 million pax or less annually after UA left. Amazing growth considering CLE isn't a large hub or connecting point for anyone now and TATL hasn't even started yet. I'm thinking F9s draw down will pull the growth percentage lower in the summer though.


Perhaps, but the legacy carriers have upgauged much of their service within the last year. This past year, I've been on mainline for DTW and MSP connections... those were always on CRJ700 and CRJ900 for me before. So maybe the numbers will stay high!
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:58 pm

Wow, 97% O&D. I'm guessing the majority of the 3% of connections come from WN with a few from UA.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:58 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Perhaps, but the legacy carriers have upgauged much of their service within the last year.


Supporting your upgauge idea, for January, the number of CLE departures increased only by 5.1%, but ASMs were up 10.3% and RPMs were up 13.2%. Some of the difference may be length of haul, but not *that* much.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:56 pm

fun2fly wrote:
Some capital improvements coming for CLE. I don't think it's the same list us on this forum would put together, but it's something.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... ments.html

Some of the pictures show what looks to be new, multi airline check in kiosks which is something many airports employ, but not yet at CLE.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... _seek.html


Common-use check-in counters and kiosks are up, and TV monitors were being hung over those positions between AA's counters and the North Security Checkpoint. The self-serve kiosks already have WOW's logo and they actually work. I have pics but I don't know how to embed them!
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Looking at the number of departures, there seems to be no question that the freight business at CLE is doing better over the past two years; yet, in terms of pounds shipped there isn't much change. It has to be that the planes are "cubing out" before they hit their weight limits. (The classic example is lamp shades vs. pig iron.) Ocean transportation charges by "weight or measure"; I'm assuming air freight does the same. Anybody know?
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:21 pm

^ Nevermind. Google had the answer. The break point for ocean transportation is 1 ton = 40 cubic feet, For air freight it's 1 kg = 6000 cu cm or 1 lb = 166 cu in.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:22 pm

Sat-only CLE-MCO (CR9) has been loaded into Delta schedule starting March 2, 2019
Next: CPH-CDG (Air France A318), CDG-BOS (Air France A330-200), BOS-CVG (Delta Air Lines CRJ-900)
A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
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cvgComair
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:58 pm

cvgComair wrote:
Sat-only CLE-MCO (CR9) has been loaded into Delta schedule starting March 2, 2019

Nvm, not a new route
Next: CPH-CDG (Air France A318), CDG-BOS (Air France A330-200), BOS-CVG (Delta Air Lines CRJ-900)
A319/320/332/333, B712/722/732/733/738/739/752/753/763/764/772/773/788, CRJ-100/2/7/9, ERJ-145/75, MD-88/90, S340
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:08 pm

Lakeeffect a while back predicted that CLE would see little new capacity this coming summer and the forecast data say he's right. Based on known schedules, these are the projected seats for Q2, 2018 departures.

UA 367K up 0.2%
WN 273K up 17.6%
DL 234K up 8.8%
AA 232K up 7.0%
F9 159K down 21.2%
NK 120K down 0.8%
G4 47K down 14.0%
B6 39K up 0.5%
AC 18K up 2.3%
WW 7K no comp.
Overall change up 2.5%

Icelandair was not part of the calculation, but it should approximate WW.

The comparison to last year kept getting worse by the month until June actually shows a 2.7% decline from 2017.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:48 pm

Some interesting data from today's Plain Dealer: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... _sinc.html
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:31 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Lakeeffect a while back predicted that CLE would see little new capacity this coming summer and the forecast data say he's right ... The comparison to last year kept getting worse by the month until June actually shows a 2.7% decline from 2017.


My data source just rolled its numbers out another quarter and CLE shows a 6.7% decline in departure seat count for Q3, 2018, lead by F9's 68% schedule reduction.
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:47 pm

The route map and destination list on CLE's website have been updated:

http://www.clevelandairport.com/sites/d ... 041718.pdf
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:57 pm

Kennedy's new push for non-aviation revenue has got me thinking: which airline said to him, "We need lower station costs in order to expand." Non-aeronautical revenues in 2016 were 48.7 million, a little over half of the airport's operating revenues. The on-site parking would raise $3.2 million; other increases in off-site parking and commercial vehicle access (which need city council's ok) would raise $1.8 million. In 2016 the airport had an operating profit of $8 million; 2017 with all those addition PFCs should be better, so the airport is more than solvent now and paying down lots of debt. He said the first fee increase was for attracting more air service; and second increase was for some fairly minor projects the airport needs that normally would be tacked onto landing fees.

I have to think he is responding to some specific airline request to lower station costs further. I wonder what the airline has promised in return.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:25 pm

masseybrown wrote:
Kennedy's new push for non-aviation revenue has got me thinking: which airline said to him, "We need lower station costs in order to expand." Non-aeronautical revenues in 2016 were 48.7 million, a little over half of the airport's operating revenues. The on-site parking would raise $3.2 million; other increases in off-site parking and commercial vehicle access (which need city council's ok) would raise $1.8 million. In 2016 the airport had an operating profit of $8 million; 2017 with all those addition PFCs should be better, so the airport is more than solvent now and paying down lots of debt. He said the first fee increase was for attracting more air service; and second increase was for some fairly minor projects the airport needs that normally would be tacked onto landing fees.

I have to think he is responding to some specific airline request to lower station costs further. I wonder what the airline has promised in return.


There seems to be a lot of buzz in the media about CLE in 2018. Several articles from the Plain Dealer (not that common), several in Crain's and a few blogs. It's noticeably different in pointed, accurate direction (new SLC, future TATL European Mainland), cost control (parking fees, pax revenue, cargo) and well publicized. So, even without and approved "strategic plan", Kennedy is working "his plan". One hopes that "his plan" is to reduce debt to a very acceptable level when the "strategic plan" is done so that a major project could be tackled. The last thing you'd want is a $3m "plan" and no $$ to do anything about it, like the last time CLE did the plan and were going to put in a hotel, parking deck, etc. all which never happened. A true leader would have CLE in a position to act on the plan. I wish him well and hope that's "his plan".


"
 
SgtBarone
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:06 pm

Kennedy seems like the guy for the job. Probably the most promising airport director in a long time.
AGP BCN BNA CLE CLT DCA DEN FLG FRA IAD IAH JAX LAX LGB MAD MCI MDW MKE MUC PHX RSW SEA SJU SLC SNA TPA
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:56 am

Not thrilled about this change to the international arrivals process about to be implemented April 30. Wonder if they will have TSA Pre-Check, at least.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... t_new.html

The last time I used the bus system, it worked very well. We just had to wait until the bus was full before heading to the north end of the baggage claim level. We didn't have to wait until all passengers were processed by CBP, as the article states. Anyone have recent experience arriving at customs in CLE? Unfortunately, building a secure walkway from customs to the terminal is not feasible as it would interfere with all the field level operations of Spirit on A.
 
jmertic
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:32 pm

I'd agree - security screening is much more of a PITA than taking a bus ride.
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:40 pm

Kennedy gets an A+ for transparency. What cleveland needs is a director and the political will in the community to say that 1950s is not ok when it comes to an airport. We will have to see how aggressive the master plan is. Cleguy I don’t see any way around the problem you raise without a major rebuild.

I’m reading the PIT forum with envy. They have a newer better airport as it stands yet they are moving along on an architectural competition to rebuild from that better position. Meantime CLE blocks 2 lanes of its 4 lane departure roadway for valet parking and is going to spend 7 figures on a transportation center that would not be acceptable at a modern airport no matter how much is spent on it.
 
fun2fly
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:08 pm

ncflyer wrote:
Kennedy gets an A+ for transparency. What cleveland needs is a director and the political will in the community to say that 1950s is not ok when it comes to an airport. We will have to see how aggressive the master plan is. Cleguy I don’t see any way around the problem you raise without a major rebuild.

I’m reading the PIT forum with envy. They have a newer better airport as it stands yet they are moving along on an architectural competition to rebuild from that better position. Meantime CLE blocks 2 lanes of its 4 lane departure roadway for valet parking and is going to spend 7 figures on a transportation center that would not be acceptable at a modern airport no matter how much is spent on it.



Too funny...that Valet deal must make some big $$ however.

Fast forward to next year on the FIS issue and process and room size. If they do land a TATL carrier as Kennedy suggests, what do they do with the volume? I remember when CO's TATL 757's would overlap, there would be well documented frustrations. I guess we're stuck with what we have for the next 5+ years until the plan is in and approved and built.
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:08 pm

WW and FI are expect to bring 30K European tourists to CLE this season according to:
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... iver_index

This would mean the flights' loads should be about 30% Europeans, which is higher than I expected. At the pace the feds release int'l data, it will be a year before we find out unless Destination Cleveland or somebody releases some numbers.
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:43 pm

Massey, the source is “an analysis provided by the airport”. Not sure I’d put much stock in that— my guess is it’s a spreadsheet and not a study— and I agree with you my gut is that’s too high.
 
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stl07
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:45 pm

I know nothing about CLE. What attractions does it offer that would bring a tourist all the way from Europe?
 
chrisjake
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:04 pm

Anyone know why the Antonov A124 is at CLE? Came in last night from Budapest via Keflavik and Goose Bay and looks like it will be here for the week. Was listening to ATC last night after its arrival and it sounded like even the controllers weren't expecting it until the last minute.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_jac ... ed-public/
 
masseybrown
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:10 pm

stl07 wrote:
I know nothing about CLE. What attractions does it offer that would bring a tourist all the way from Europe?


Booze, sex, and rock and roll.

A more serious answer can be found at: http://www.thisiscleveland.com/
 
ncflyer
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:14 pm

StI see today’s NEw York Times for review of Cleveland Orchestra— if that’s not a critic
saying it’s the best orchestra in the world I don’t know what is. So an orchestra groupie. Then R and R hall of fame might be a draw to some. Granted neither one is the Statue of Liberty or Disney world…
 
ATLFlyer323
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:21 pm

stl07 wrote:
I know nothing about CLE. What attractions does it offer that would bring a tourist all the way from Europe?


Well NE Ohio does have a few attractions, but I don't know if its what europeans would be looking for. Cedar Point, Rock and Roll HOF, Pro Football HOF, an Indians game, hiking trails in the National Park,and some acceptable Lake Erie beaches are all within a rental cars driving distance of CLE and the summer weather is pleasant (not too hot, not too cold usually). Im sure people who live up in CLE know more about the cities attractions than I do. There is enough to fill a few days vacation I think... but I don't know if its anything many people in Europe would know about without doing some research. So I think it will be up to the airline/destination CLE to get some promotion out there.
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
highflier92660
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:42 pm

People promoting Cleveland invariably push the arts, talking about The Cleveland Orchestra in the same breath as the 1927 Yankees since the days of George Szell. For those not familiar with the name, he was a world renowned Cleveland Orchestra conductor who passed away in 1970 a couple of years after the completion of the C concourse at Hopkins. When a reputable poster like Masseybrown states that 30k Europeans are about to disembark airliners to vacation here, it must cause even the most ardent local fan to pause. A mind automatically juxtaposes downtown Cleveland with a more traditional holiday destination like a Sandal's Caribbean resort or the sands of San Diego. To quote the title of an old song there's No Surf in Cleveland U.S.A.

Having said that I'm pulling for good load factors and great passenger reviews.
 
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flyPIT
Posts: 964
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:01 pm

The article said 30,000 European "visitors", not "tourists". I imagine with Cleveland's strong ancestral ties to Europe most of these visitors will be VFR, and even a small amount will be business travelers.
FLYi
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:16 pm

CLE will get both "visitors" and "tourists". Cleveland is a major business and medical center----Lots of foreign firms in Cleveland and lots of Cleveland companies with overseas operations and customers. The Cleveland Clinic alone, draws people from 100 countries a year. For the "tourist", Cleveland is a very rich, although not well known, city. Its orchestra and main art museum are both in the top five in the world. There is a great music scene and a museum dedicated to Rock and Roll (which beat out NYC when determining where to locate the museum). Physically, the city has a great river and lake, with cruisises along both and beaches on the lake, as well a national park 15 minutes away---probably the only major American city that could say this. In the US, its theatre district is second only to NYC. That said, Cleveland is less seen as a destination than New York, but within the US, it is probably one of the top five most interesting cities---its just very poorly advertised, so the world knows very little of all the treasures in the city, and usually know it for business or medicine.
 
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CLEguy
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:56 pm

Looks like Destination Cleveland is try to raise awareness of the city and region among European travel agents and writers. Cleveland would definitely be a destination for experienced European travelers (not those on their first N. American trip) looking for a more authentic American experience beyond the coasts, filled with excellent cultural attractions, great restaurants and fun recreational options all at a relative bargain price.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... ts_eu.html
 
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flyPIT
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:06 pm

greenair727 wrote:
CLE will get both "visitors" and "tourists".

All tourists are visitors, but not all visitors are tourists. Again, the article said 30,000 European visitors, which makes sense. I'd expect the number of tourists to be well below that number.
FLYi
 
joeman
Posts: 750
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:11 pm

flyPIT wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
CLE will get both "visitors" and "tourists".

All tourists are visitors, but not all visitors are tourists. Again, the article said 30,000 European visitors, which makes sense. I'd expect the number of tourists to be well below that number.

Totally agreed
 
greenair727
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Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:55 am

^Sorry---to clarify: CLE will get both tourists and "non-tourist visitors" such as those on business, those visiting family or friends, those coming for medical treatments or accompanying someone who is, or those coming for any other non-tourism matter not explicitly mentioned herein". The point is, 30,000 is not a lot of people and there is plenty in the city for them, in response to the question above, "I know nothing about CLE. What attractions does it offer that would bring a tourist all the way from Europe?" I am assuming its supposed to be 30k more than CLE gets now, which is certainly not zero.
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: What's Going In CLE - 2018

Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:11 pm

Nice to see some current numbers associated with CLE-Europe. 327 departures is the year-round daily average, Kennedy says. More in the summer, fewer in the winter. With the stimulation provided by the Icelanders' presence plus the expanded geographic draw of low fares (I'm thinking Columbus, which annoys the Columbus fans) it's not hard to imagine a demand for 500 seats daily this summer - so perhaps a weekly demand for 3500 seats. WW and FI will be providing about 1800 seats. It becomes fairly easy to think they BOTH might succeed.

For a comparison, the year CO flew to both CDG and LHR, the summer emplanements were about 4,500 a week for June-July-August (2,500 for CDG and 2.000 for LHR) - but that was with network feed.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... rs_th.html

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