The rest of Ohio - 2018

DeltaRules · Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:05 am

NoTime wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
NoTime wrote:

Yeah, it would take some creativity to expand capacity by any worthwhile amount. They could maybe extend A to the west far enough to add another gate or two, before running into Lane. Or, as you said, maybe add small eastbound spurs to A and C to add a few gates to each?

But, yeah, expanding B eastward, one way or another, would probably add the most bang for the buck.

Let me very loosely (and poorly) spend CRAA's money in a semi-educated fashion. (I know some of these ideas are repeats, but still, one list.)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/John+ ... 82.8871767

A- Extend A eastbound over the A1 hardstand to add a gate or two (by going straight and/or turning the corner behind the ticketing lobby) and as much as you can westbound before running into Lane's CBP facility.. A goes from 5 jetways (A2-6) to 8-9 (A1-8/9).
B- Put two spurs where B31 and B35 are and re-route the taxi lane around them. Could you get 3-4 gates on each (two on the spur and one on the end)?
OR
-B satellite on the hardstands. Think D at CLE. It looks like there are 7-8 parking lines there. B37-44/45 (which runs nicely up against the current numbering system)?
C- A spur on C might make C46 useless. Not sure how much more you could do.

So you're looking at ~10 gates there if CRAA doesn't read this post and laugh hysterically at my spitballing? There's a good problem to have in this: increasing mainline. Even at 8 this morning, when I got to the airport, there were still 3 DL 739s and a UA 319 and 738. That might factor into the design.

It would be expensive and time consuming, but could they expand the ramp, east of B, all the way up to almost the 94th aero squadron? Then, relocate the ARFF and fuel tanks and such, and you've suddenly got a lot more room to play with.

Is there a new ARFF station planned to go along with the new terminal? Maybe they could get a jump on that if they REALLY wanted to.

brooklynchris13 wrote:
Thanks Delta Rules for the correction. I was too excited by the continued growth at CMH and got my gates screwed up.
On other CMH news, there are new plans for the old terminal, which look really good.
https://www.columbusunderground.com/new ... rminal-bw1

No problem! I was at 47 because I wanted to see what they had C48 marked for (which, again, was surprisingly all of DL's metal).

I would definitely check that museum out. Repeatedly, if done right.

CMHMarc787 · Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:34 pm

An, "If I were making the calls at CMH," moment.

Terminal A
* Bring back A1 (apparently already in the works).
* Add an A7. There are already two parking spots marked, and routinely two, 737 parked there. Changing the jetway to a 2-split wouldn't be too difficult.

Terminal B (not adding square footage version)
* Add jetway to B30
* Take B34 and double it up by adding additional jetway, thus recreating B33. By only adding a single additional jetway here would allow for mainline equipment at both gates.
* Redraw lines at B35 to support B33/34 ability to accommodate mainline, thus making B33-36 all mainline capable.

Terminal B (adding square footage)
* Same as bullet points one and two from above
* Extend South end at B35/36 by 100-150ft. This would allow for an additional 2-3 gates (new B37/38/39
* Eliminate taxiway D between intersections D2 and D3. Although a wee bit inconvenient by forcing a brief detour onto taxiway C, the affect would be negligible.

Terminal C - doesn't look like you could do too much, if anything.

Just my $.02

ILNFlyer · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:30 pm

Meanwhile, DAY continues to see reductions in the number of pax....

ILNFlyer · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:31 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Meanwhile, DAY continues to see reductions in the number of pax....

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/da ... 6PKe4XSSP/

Midwestindy · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:43 pm

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181022/ ... early-2019

DeltaRules · Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:52 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
Meanwhile, DAY continues to see reductions in the number of pax....

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/da ... 6PKe4XSSP/

I still think NK tossing a couple destinations onto their map from DAY could work. If they can make PIT/LBE work, they could make DAY/CMH go.

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181022/allegiant-to-temporarily-trim-rickenbacker-flights-in-early-2019

Good find. I hadn't heard if AUS and MSY were permanent cuts or temporary, so this seals that up. It would've been disappointing for them to be permanent given the momentum G4's had at LCK.

flyCMH · Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:02 pm

For quick, additional terminal capacity, I would agree on most of the points mentioned above. A1 appears to be already planned for jet bridge installation. Though while A7 could have a jet bridge grafted onto the end of the concourse, the passenger hold room is on the 1st floor. It would be extremely uncomfortable for pax departing from A7 with a bridge, as they would have to share a hold room with A5-A6.

I do like the idea of re-configuring the parking positions of B29-B36 to allow for additional jet bridge operation either via dual bridges through one door or stand-alone gates. Another option, although not seen much in domestic US airport would be to hardstand flights on the east pads. Long term parking shuttles could be used to depart passengers from stairwells at the ends of all concourses, if desired. This would be the cheapest solution, but probably the least desirable.

DeltaRules wrote:
Somebody (FlyCMH?) said there was once talk of extending B to the East around where B31 and 35 are.

I wish I knew where the rendering were, but I do recall seeing an old expansion plan of basically replicating the upper part of the "T" of what is now Concourse B on what is currently the East Pad. The only problem is that configuration is not very efficient, and makes operations on the inner parts of the T difficult. I don't think physical expansion of any part of the building will happen as long as the plan remains to replace the entire facility with a new structure.

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181022/allegiant-to-temporarily-trim-rickenbacker-flights-in-early-2019

Hopefully AUS and MSY come back as mentioned. Hopefully the MSY flight is cut after the Mardi Gras travel season. A 15-20% cut in flight activity will definitely put a damper in LCK passenger counts in 2019, unfortunately. It will be interesting to see how 2019 shakes out with Allegiant.
The CMH pax counts continue to be encouraging. With HOU now daily, CLT with AA mainline and their second LAX frequency coming online in November, the airport should end 2019 with some pretty robust passenger counts and their first 8 million pax year ever.

cledaybuck · Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:09 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
Meanwhile, DAY continues to see reductions in the number of pax....

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/da ... 6PKe4XSSP/

DAY was actually slightly up yoy for July. Granted the increase was small.

jplatts · Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:30 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
I still think NK tossing a couple destinations onto their map from DAY could work. If they can make PIT/LBE work, they could make DAY/CMH go.

I actually agree with your point, and DAY is further from CMH than LBE is from PIT. DAY is also located in a separate metro area from CMH, whereas LBE and PIT are located on opposite sides of the Pittsburgh metropolitan area.

While most of the markets that are currently served by NK are bigger than DAY is, AVL and PBG are two markets smaller than DAY that are currently served by NK. I think that NK could serve FLL, MCO, and TPA nonstop from DAY if NK entered the DAY market. DAY currently lacks nonstop service to the Miami/Fort Lauderdale area, and there is an opportunity for either NK to add DAY-FLL nonstop service, for G4 to add DAY-FLL nonstop service, or for AA to add DAY-MIA nonstop service.

DeltaRules · Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:12 pm

flyCMH wrote:
For quick, additional terminal capacity, I would agree on most of the points mentioned above. A1 appears to be already planned for jet bridge installation. Though while A7 could have a jet bridge grafted onto the end of the concourse, the passenger hold room is on the 1st floor. It would be extremely uncomfortable for pax departing from A7 with a bridge, as they would have to share a hold room with A5-A6.

I do like the idea of re-configuring the parking positions of B29-B36 to allow for additional jet bridge operation either via dual bridges through one door or stand-alone gates. Another option, although not seen much in domestic US airport would be to hardstand flights on the east pads. Long term parking shuttles could be used to depart passengers from stairwells at the ends of all concourses, if desired. This would be the cheapest solution, but probably the least desirable.

DeltaRules wrote:
Somebody (FlyCMH?) said there was once talk of extending B to the East around where B31 and 35 are.

I wish I knew where the rendering were, but I do recall seeing an old expansion plan of basically replicating the upper part of the "T" of what is now Concourse B on what is currently the East Pad. The only problem is that configuration is not very efficient, and makes operations on the inner parts of the T difficult. I don't think physical expansion of any part of the building will happen as long as the plan remains to replace the entire facility with a new structure.

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181022/allegiant-to-temporarily-trim-rickenbacker-flights-in-early-2019

Hopefully AUS and MSY come back as mentioned. Hopefully the MSY flight is cut after the Mardi Gras travel season. A 15-20% cut in flight activity will definitely put a damper in LCK passenger counts in 2019, unfortunately. It will be interesting to see how 2019 shakes out with Allegiant.
The CMH pax counts continue to be encouraging. With HOU now daily, CLT with AA mainline and their second LAX frequency coming online in November, the airport should end 2019 with some pretty robust passenger counts and their first 8 million pax year ever.

I had thought of buses to remote stands as well but didn't mention it as I figured John Q. Public would balk at the idea of having to take a bus to a plane (even though it's perfectly reasonable and, as you said, happens elsewhere in the world).

Stick the AC flights and any UA CRJ/ERJ-145 flights out there (with a bus stop at B30) and run E170s and mainline from jetways and it almost makes too much sense.

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jplatts · Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:20 am

With WW pulling out of CVG, there are opportunities for another European carrier such as FI, EI, BA, UX, or KL to add nonstop service to Europe from CVG.

UX and KL both codeshare with DL, and Delta SkyMiles can be earned on UX and KL flights. UX and KL would be able to capture DL frequent flyers who are loyal to DL and its partners in the Cincinnati market if UX added CVG-MAD nonstop service or if KL added CVG-AMS nonstop service. There would also be many connecting opportunities available on the Europe side at MAD or AMS if UX or KL added service to CVG.

While FI, EI, and BA would be able to connect passengers to many destinations on the Europe side, FI, EI, and BA do not codeshare with DL like UX or KL do.

Is FI, EI, BA, UX, or KL likely to add nonstop service to Europe from CVG, and if so, which carrier is most likely to add nonstop service to Europe from CVG?

DeltaRules · Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:04 pm

With AC having just announced RDU-YUL after PIT-YUL (though PIT was said to have some cash behind it), I'm beginning to wonder if CMH-(and/or CVG-)YUL would be a possibility after all. The suggestion in the thread I read was that AC might want to get some of its international connections away from YYZ.

AC's had some reasonable growth at CMH this year.

papatango · Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:38 pm

Deltarules. Any chance of exciting news coming out of the CRAA meeting Thur?

Pacemaker527 · Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:57 pm

Didn't see this posted yet...even though it is a few charters, will be nice to see some TATL service from STN to CMH in 2019! Unspecified 767 running 21FEB to 25FEB

https://www.brewdog.com/airline

flyCMH · Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:13 pm

Pacemaker527 wrote:
Didn't see this posted yet...even though it is a few charters, will be nice to see some TATL service from STN to CMH in 2019! Unspecified 767 running 21FEB to 25FEB

https://www.brewdog.com/airline

Whoa, that's definitely unexpected! That will definitely be nice to see at C46. Though they couldn't have picked a worse time of the year to come to Ohio! I wonder why late February?

Oh, and does this mean CMH will technically have Transatlantic service before STL? :duck:

jplatts · Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:54 pm

Will AA ever add CVG-LAX or DAY-LAX nonstop service anytime soon? AA announced nonstop service to LAX from SDF today, and AA already serves LAX nonstop from IND and CMH.

I think that CVG can probably support nonstop service to LAX on AA since AA is the dominant carrier at LAX, since there are a few connecting opportunities to Hawaii and New Zealand on AA at LAX that aren't there at other AA hubs, since AA already serves LAX nonstop from other markets near CVG, since CVG is in a market similar in size to IND and CMH, and since CVG already has nonstop service to the West Coast on UA, F9, and G4 in addition to DL.

DeltaRules · Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:12 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Pacemaker527 wrote:
Didn't see this posted yet...even though it is a few charters, will be nice to see some TATL service from STN to CMH in 2019! Unspecified 767 running 21FEB to 25FEB

https://www.brewdog.com/airline

Whoa, that's definitely unexpected! That will definitely be nice to see at C46. Though they couldn't have picked a worse time of the year to come to Ohio! I wonder why late February?

Oh, and does this mean CMH will technically have Transatlantic service before STL?

Ok, so I smarted off about Columbus finally getting SEA service when one of the cargo airlines launched it from LCK and CMH-SEA later happened, so I'll say it again: Glad to see Columbus finally get a TATL flight!

...beyond that, that's completely random and unexpected. It's a brewery charter?

Pacemaker527 · Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:59 pm

Yes, looks like it is a full BrewDog experience of going to the brewery and then staying at the new DogHouse Hotel...with walking tours of CMH and CVG, which should be interesting to say the least in February.

flyCMH · Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:18 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
Pacemaker527 wrote:
Didn't see this posted yet...even though it is a few charters, will be nice to see some TATL service from STN to CMH in 2019! Unspecified 767 running 21FEB to 25FEB

https://www.brewdog.com/airline

Whoa, that's definitely unexpected! That will definitely be nice to see at C46. Though they couldn't have picked a worse time of the year to come to Ohio! I wonder why late February?

Oh, and does this mean CMH will technically have Transatlantic service before STL?

Ok, so I smarted off about Columbus finally getting SEA service when one of the cargo airlines launched it from LCK and CMH-SEA later happened, so I'll say it again: Glad to see Columbus finally get a TATL flight!

...beyond that, that's completely random and unexpected. It's a brewery charter?

That's what it sounds like! At first I thought it was for loyal fans and crowdfunders on this side of the pond, when in reality its for Equity Punks from the UK to visit here! It would be great if BrewDog would extend the idea to those in the US wishing to visit the UK home office. I never thought a brewery would be the one to bring TATL service to CMH, albeit charter!

NoTime · Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:27 pm

Since we sometimes include WV-related news, I thought this was worth bringing up - it looks like both PKB and BKW are giving Via Air (VC) the boot and bringing in "Contour Airlines" (LF).

The Raleigh County Airport Authority announced the arrival of Beckley's (BKW) first jet service Wednesday during a ribbon-cutting ceremony.

Airport general manager Tom Cochran recently signed a contract with Contour Air, a Tennessee-based carrier, to begin providing daily service from Beckley to Charlotte, N.C., starting Dec. 5, and weekly service to Tampa, Fla.

One-way tickets to Charlotte are as low as $29 for the upcoming two weeks, and no higher than $39 after that. Tickets to Tampa are $99 each way, if purchased in the next two weeks, and regularly start at $149. Tickets may be purchased at contourairlines.com.

https://www.register-herald.com/news/mo ... 1d0fb.html

The head of Contour Airlines said Wednesday he’s looking forward to giving people a reason to fly out of the Mid-Ohio Valley Regional Airport again.

Contour CEO Matt Chaifetz and 11 employees landed at the airport Wednesday in one of the 30-seat jets with which they’ll begin serving the community on Dec. 5. The company was founded in 1982, but only entered the scheduled commercial flight business more recently.

...

Airport officials have said that’s been a challenge with current provider Via Air. That company was awarded a contract under federal Alternate Essential Air Service to fly between the Mid-Ohio Valley airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport two years ago, but after a strong first quarter, cancellations began to mount, due primarily to scheduled maintenance issues.

http://www.newsandsentinel.com/news/loc ... -airlines/

I'll be in the area during their promotional fare period, so I might have to give them a try. If so, I hope it goes better than my attempt at flying with Via.

DeltaRules · Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:39 am

NoTime wrote:
Since we sometimes include WV-related news, I thought this was worth bringing up - it looks like both PKB and BKW are giving Via Air (VC) the boot and bringing in "Contour Airlines" (LF).

The Raleigh County Airport Authority announced the arrival of Beckley's (BKW) first jet service Wednesday during a ribbon-cutting ceremony.

Airport general manager Tom Cochran recently signed a contract with Contour Air, a Tennessee-based carrier, to begin providing daily service from Beckley to Charlotte, N.C., starting Dec. 5, and weekly service to Tampa, Fla.

One-way tickets to Charlotte are as low as $29 for the upcoming two weeks, and no higher than $39 after that. Tickets to Tampa are $99 each way, if purchased in the next two weeks, and regularly start at $149. Tickets may be purchased at contourairlines.com.

https://www.register-herald.com/news/mo ... 1d0fb.html

The head of Contour Airlines said Wednesday he’s looking forward to giving people a reason to fly out of the Mid-Ohio Valley Regional Airport again.

Contour CEO Matt Chaifetz and 11 employees landed at the airport Wednesday in one of the 30-seat jets with which they’ll begin serving the community on Dec. 5. The company was founded in 1982, but only entered the scheduled commercial flight business more recently.

...

Airport officials have said that’s been a challenge with current provider Via Air. That company was awarded a contract under federal Alternate Essential Air Service to fly between the Mid-Ohio Valley airport and Charlotte-Douglas International Airport two years ago, but after a strong first quarter, cancellations began to mount, due primarily to scheduled maintenance issues.

http://www.newsandsentinel.com/news/loc ... -airlines/

I'll be in the area during their promotional fare period, so I might have to give them a try. If so, I hope it goes better than my attempt at flying with Via.

I didn't even realize Contour had ERJ-135s, but that might be worth looking into. With Via pulling down most of their CLT network, this doesn't surprise me.

topguncnod · Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:22 pm

Looks like Delta made it official! CMH-SLC
https://news.delta.com/more-westward-op ... ty-service

SgtBarone · Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:04 pm

Great news for CMH!

DeltaRules · Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:14 pm

topguncnod wrote:
Looks like Delta made it official! CMH-SLC
https://news.delta.com/more-westward-op ... ty-service

There we go. A319 daily from June 17th.

We now officially have SEA, SFO, and SLC.

flyCMH · Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:35 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
Looks like Delta made it official! CMH-SLC
https://news.delta.com/more-westward-op ... ty-service

There we go. A319 daily from June 17th.

We now officially have SEA, SFO, and SLC.

Wow, it's been a fantastic past 2 months for airline announcements out of CMH. I'm glad the service is coming in the form of network carriers and the strengths they bring to the market. Really great job by Mr. Nardone and his team, as well as Columbus 2020 and the Columbus Partnership. Their work isn't done, however. They need to promote and endorse these new services so that they become permanent fixtures on the CMH route map. Really happy for my home airport.

papatango · Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:48 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
Looks like Delta made it official! CMH-SLC
https://news.delta.com/more-westward-op ... ty-service

There we go. A319 daily from June 17th.

We now officially have SEA, SFO, and SLC.

GREAT NEWS DELTA THANK YOU now please get us AMS service!!!!!!

WWads · Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:09 pm

cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Anyone know what is up with this DL flight currently enroute from CVG to El Salvador? https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9931

Looks like is an ex GOL 738. Those have been flying from CVG for months to ATL and MCO w/o AVOD. Guessing it’s finally getting the update to activate.

Yep, I was just on one of those. I wish they didn't put so many of the non-AVOD 738s at CVG.

Speaking of 738s, quite a few DL changes this morning:
Effective Nov 27, CVG-LGA mainline frequency upguaged to B738
Effective Nov 27, CVG-DFW one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective Jan 6, CVG-MCI one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective March 2, one frequency of CVG-ATL upguaged to a B739
Effective March 3, CVG-RSW and one frequency of CVG-SLC upguaged to a B739
CVG-LAS A321 upguage pushed through the end of the schedule

Wow that's good news. E-jets used to be quite rare at CVG. Much preferable over any CRJ.

flyCMH · Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:29 pm

Write up from the Dispatch:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181026/ ... ty-in-june

NoTime · Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:10 pm

topguncnod wrote:
Looks like Delta made it official! CMH-SLC
https://news.delta.com/more-westward-op ... ty-service

Congrats CMH.

boscmh · Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:22 pm

Fantastic! In my mind this pretty much closes up the 'must-haves' for our domestic route network. Yes, there are still some 'nice-to-haves' like SAN, PDX, MKE, MCI, etc if an opportunity comes up, but I'm fairly happy with the map as it stands now. The next big focus should be TATL

topguncnod · Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:26 pm

cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
Anyone know what is up with this DL flight currently enroute from CVG to El Salvador? https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL9931

Looks like is an ex GOL 738. Those have been flying from CVG for months to ATL and MCO w/o AVOD. Guessing it’s finally getting the update to activate.

Yep, I was just on one of those. I wish they didn't put so many of the non-AVOD 738s at CVG.

Speaking of 738s, quite a few DL changes this morning:
Effective Nov 27, CVG-LGA mainline frequency upguaged to B738
Effective Nov 27, CVG-DFW one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective Jan 6, CVG-MCI one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective March 2, one frequency of CVG-ATL upguaged to a B739
Effective March 3, CVG-RSW and one frequency of CVG-SLC upguaged to a B739
CVG-LAS A321 upguage pushed through the end of the schedule

Looks like the morning CVG-LAX has been upguaged starting June 8 through Summer to an A321. If this holds and so does the A321 on LAS, that likely means more 738’s on ATL and/or DTW/MSP to support the pilot base.

brooklynchris13 · Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:26 pm

flyCMH wrote:
Write up from the Dispatch:

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181026/ ... ty-in-june

I agree, TATL should really be the next focus, or more likely the next effort to bare fruit for CMH. In a way, I could see the CHS news from BA as a sign they are considering non-traditional US markets, but almost all of them to this point have some degree of tourism focus. None-the-less, I would still put them as a possible for service here. DL is, I still believe, the best chance (probably 70%, with BA/AA 20% and some other carrier at 10%).

The next most interesting item will be this physical capacity optimization study. We really are not going to need a whole bunch of new gates at CMH for what is known or likely to come, just improved use of existing spaces. Can't wait to see how that all pans out.

ChasChandler · Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:47 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
In a way, I could see the CHS news from BA as a sign they are considering non-traditional US markets

Representatives from CMH have been going to London and Frankfurt since the 80's talking to BA and LF about Columbus. If those airlines wanted to come here, they would have by now. I'm not convinced TATL is any more than a pipe dream for CMH with so many gateway cities nearby.

ChasChandler · Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:48 pm

"In a way, I could see the CHS news from BA as a sign they are considering non-traditional US markets."

Representatives from CMH have been going to London and Frankfurt since the 80's talking to BA and LF about Columbus. If those airlines wanted to come here, they would have by now. I'm not convinced TATL is any more than a pipe dream for CMH with so many gateway cities nearby.

DeltaRules · Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:17 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
flyCMH wrote:
In a way, I could see the CHS news from BA as a sign they are considering non-traditional US markets

Representatives from CMH have been going to London and Frankfurt since the 80's talking to BA and LF about Columbus. If those airlines wanted to come here, they would have by now. I'm not convinced TATL is any more than a pipe dream for CMH with so many gateway cities nearby.

Money is why Charleston got BA and why Pittsburgh has three airlines to Europe, and Indianapolis, Nashville, New Orleans, and Cleveland all have TATL. Drive a Brinks truck to Atlanta or mail a big, cashable novelty check to London/Keflavik/Dublin and they'll come. I've long maintained I've felt it would be Delta, if anyone. (I feel like there's smoke, it's just the fire that needs found. At the rate Nardone's going, he might find it.) My concern has been will oil prices get to the point where airlines no longer want to dabble in the mid-size markets to Europe, though I guess if the money is guaranteed, they'll keep doing it.

I think CRAA finally has a leader who makes the moves needed to aggressively grow the route map as other airports have. In retrospect, Roberts appeared content to sit and let things happen organically (other than CMH-OAK, which had money behind it), as was the case with F9 coming back in her later years and NK announced just prior to her retirement, whereas Nardone has seemed to have found a way to get Columbus 2020, etc. to chip in to make growth happen. Maybe that's not a fair assessment, but the long sought after SFO and SEA nonstops and the return of SLC in less than a year?

cvgComair · Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:09 am

WWads wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:

Looks like is an ex GOL 738. Those have been flying from CVG for months to ATL and MCO w/o AVOD. Guessing it’s finally getting the update to activate.

Yep, I was just on one of those. I wish they didn't put so many of the non-AVOD 738s at CVG.

Speaking of 738s, quite a few DL changes this morning:
Effective Nov 27, CVG-LGA mainline frequency upguaged to B738
Effective Nov 27, CVG-DFW one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective Jan 6, CVG-MCI one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective March 2, one frequency of CVG-ATL upguaged to a B739
Effective March 3, CVG-RSW and one frequency of CVG-SLC upguaged to a B739
CVG-LAS A321 upguage pushed through the end of the schedule

Wow that's good news. E-jets used to be quite rare at CVG. Much preferable over any CRJ.

In addition to those routes, looks like CVG-DTW is also getting the E170.

topguncnod wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
topguncnod wrote:

Looks like is an ex GOL 738. Those have been flying from CVG for months to ATL and MCO w/o AVOD. Guessing it’s finally getting the update to activate.

Yep, I was just on one of those. I wish they didn't put so many of the non-AVOD 738s at CVG.

Speaking of 738s, quite a few DL changes this morning:
Effective Nov 27, CVG-LGA mainline frequency upguaged to B738
Effective Nov 27, CVG-DFW one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective Jan 6, CVG-MCI one CR9 frequency replaced with E175
Effective March 2, one frequency of CVG-ATL upguaged to a B739
Effective March 3, CVG-RSW and one frequency of CVG-SLC upguaged to a B739
CVG-LAS A321 upguage pushed through the end of the schedule

Looks like the morning CVG-LAX has been upguaged starting June 8 through Summer to an A321. If this holds and so does the A321 on LAS, that likely means more 738’s on ATL and/or DTW/MSP to support the pilot base.

Looks like all the ATL frequencies are going B738. That should help greatly with getting the CVG 737 pilots into the rest of the network.

jplatts · Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:37 pm

According to the OAG changes (which can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1407173), F9 is going to be discontinuing CVG-SAT nonstop service on January 6, 2019. In addition, I also currently do not see any F9 nonstop flights to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

I think that demand for WN service out of CVG will be significantly greater in Summer 2019 than it was in the past with F9 dropping many of its nonstop routes out of CVG, and I think that WN will likely be announcing additional nonstop routes out of CVG in its next schedule extension on November 15th.

cvgComair · Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
According to the OAG changes (which can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1407173), F9 is going to be discontinuing CVG-SAT nonstop service on January 6, 2019. In addition, I also currently do not see any F9 nonstop flights to ATL, AUS, DFW, JAX, LAX, MSP, LGA, PHL, RDU, and SJC out of CVG in April 2019, even though F9 has already extended its flight schedule through April 29, 2019.

I think that demand for WN service out of CVG will be significantly greater in Summer 2019 than it was in the past with F9 dropping many of its nonstop routes out of CVG, and I think that WN will likely be announcing additional nonstop routes out of CVG in its next schedule extension on November 15th.

Just because the schedule is out to April 29, it doesn't mean it is finalized. It seems all the reductions are seasonal, perhaps we will see them again or they will replace them with new routes.

If F9 doesn't return a lot of the routes, there is no doubt DL will fill the void. I hope WN joins the action, but I don't see them being too aggressive at the present.

topguncnod · Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:58 pm

Looks like in March 19 CVG-TPA on the 738 and with an additional flight on Saturdays on a CRJ900. I know we have seen increased service on Saturday's in the past to RSW and FLL, but I think the is the first time in a while for TPA.

BTW- Anyone have updated Delta LF's from CVG? With all the increased service, would love to see how these flights are performing.

cvgComair · Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:07 pm

topguncnod wrote:
Looks like in March 19 CVG-TPA on the 738 and with an additional flight on Saturdays on a CRJ900. I know we have seen increased service on Saturday's in the past to RSW and FLL, but I think the is the first time in a while for TPA.

BTW- Anyone have updated Delta LF's from CVG? With all the increased service, would love to see how these flights are performing.

July '18, both ways combined (red routes now cut, bold saw capacity increase in 2018 summer):

DL CVG-LAX: 93.3%
DL CVG-LAS: 92.6%
DL CVG-RSW: 90.2%
DL CVG-FLL: 90.1%
DL CVG-MSP: 89.8%
DL CVG-SLC: 89.5%
DL CVG-MCO: 89.3%
DL CVG-DEN: 88.3%
DL CVG-SEA: 87.6%
DL CVG-TPA: 87.4%
DL CVG-ATL: 86.2%
DL CVG-BOS: 85.5%
DL CVG-JFK: 85.0%
DL CVG-BWI: 84.0%
DL CVG-ORD: 83.6%
DL CVG-PHL: 82.7%
DL CVG-MCI: 82.4%
DL CVG-DTW: 82.3%
DL CVG-DFW: 80.5%
DL CVG-SFO: 80.1%
DL CVG-LGA: 79.2%
DL CVG-RDU: 78.4%
DL CVG-IAH: 76.9%
DL CVG-BDL: 76.5%
DL CVG-AUS: 76.2% (new route)
DL CVG-MKE: 70.6%
DL CVG-DCA: 70.0%
DL CVG-XNA: 64.7%
DL CVG-EWR: 63.0%
DL CVG-CLT: 62.4%
DL CVG-STL: 57.2%
DL CVG-BNA: 38.1%

I still am annoyed about MKE being cut, especially since the LFs have dramatically improved on the route. XNA also improved, so I think the less-than-daily idea could work pretty well.

STL mostly suffered from the 2xCR9/CR7 schedule flown. It's back at 2xCRJ/CR7, so it should do better. CLT/EWR/DCA could all be downguaged/frequency reduced, so I am not worried much about them.

Overall, seems like very strong growth!

topguncnod · Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:30 pm

Thanks for pulling!

Well this definitely explains the A321 on LAX and LAS! Perhaps we will see a 739 on RSW and FLL at some point? Really excited to see what happens when the A220 makes it's debut in CVG.

cvgComair · Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:56 pm

topguncnod wrote:
Thanks for pulling!

Well this definitely explains the A321 on LAX and LAS! Perhaps we will see a 739 on RSW and FLL at some point? Really excited to see what happens when the A220 makes it's debut in CVG.

RSW goes on the 739 in March

DeltaRules · Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:17 pm

I noticed all the DL podiums on C at CMH have been re-skinned with the same blue background, but the inclusion this time of individual gate numbers on each. The flight info displays aren't in yet, but I'm assuming they'll be the monitors you see everywhere else.

With the SLC add, there's going to be quite a bit of mainline metal on the ground in the mornings. If the typical schedules continue, you're looking at 3 ATL (738/739/M88/M90 most commonly), 1 MSP (738/739 lately), 1 SLC (319), and the LAX redeye (738) which gets in before 6am. That would use up C49-51 and 54-56, with 52 and 53 for RJs (and E170s/175s probably shuttled to and from the hangar).

On that note, AA's going to be in a similar boat in a few days, with 2 DFW (738/M80), 1 CLT, 1 PHX, and 1 LAX (all 319).

brooklynchris13 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:31 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
I noticed all the DL podiums on C at CMH have been re-skinned with the same blue background, but the inclusion this time of individual gate numbers on each. The flight info displays aren't in yet, but I'm assuming they'll be the monitors you see everywhere else.

With the SLC add, there's going to be quite a bit of mainline metal on the ground in the mornings. If the typical schedules continue, you're looking at 3 ATL (738/739/M88/M90 most commonly), 1 MSP (738/739 lately), 1 SLC (319), and the LAX redeye (738) which gets in before 6am. That would use up C49-51 and 54-56, with 52 and 53 for RJs (and E170s/175s probably shuttled to and from the hangar).

On that note, AA's going to be in a similar boat in a few days, with 2 DFW (738/M80), 1 CLT, 1 PHX, and 1 LAX (all 319).

On the AA side it looks like the CLT mainline is being swapped for that second LAX flight. I would look for any winter mainline (CLT or a return of PHL) to appear in the afternoon. AA is pretty constrained on mainline gate capacity, with those operations being confined to the South side of B (19, 21, 23, 25). I would guess their next mainline gate would be B28, but I do not think it has been used for that in a long time. All good problems to have as the growth continues.

On a sort of related note, I am wondering if there is any reporting on the number of connecting passengers at CMH? I know that WN uses CMH for a few connections and have heard that AA does as well, especially going into LGA and DCA from PHX and LAX, but is there any data on that?

DeltaRules · Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:55 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
I noticed all the DL podiums on C at CMH have been re-skinned with the same blue background, but the inclusion this time of individual gate numbers on each. The flight info displays aren't in yet, but I'm assuming they'll be the monitors you see everywhere else.

With the SLC add, there's going to be quite a bit of mainline metal on the ground in the mornings. If the typical schedules continue, you're looking at 3 ATL (738/739/M88/M90 most commonly), 1 MSP (738/739 lately), 1 SLC (319), and the LAX redeye (738) which gets in before 6am. That would use up C49-51 and 54-56, with 52 and 53 for RJs (and E170s/175s probably shuttled to and from the hangar).

On that note, AA's going to be in a similar boat in a few days, with 2 DFW (738/M80), 1 CLT, 1 PHX, and 1 LAX (all 319).

On the AA side it looks like the CLT mainline is being swapped for that second LAX flight. I would look for any winter mainline (CLT or a return of PHL) to appear in the afternoon. AA is pretty constrained on mainline gate capacity, with those operations being confined to the South side of B (19, 21, 23, 25). I would guess their next mainline gate would be B28, but I do not think it has been used for that in a long time. All good problems to have as the growth continues.

On a sort of related note, I am wondering if there is any reporting on the number of connecting passengers at CMH? I know that WN uses CMH for a few connections and have heard that AA does as well, especially going into LGA and DCA from PHX and LAX, but is there any data on that?

B20 can handle mainline and AA is one of the three(!) airlines laying claim to B36. US would occasionally stick a 737 at B22 back in the day, but that was in part because they only had B22/24/26 and 23.

The connection question is interesting, too. (That sounds like Midwestindy territory!) PHX/LAX to LGA/DCA is a throwback to the HP hub days. DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH in the same way AA does.

jplatts · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:41 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
The connection question is interesting, too. (That sounds like Midwestindy territory!) PHX/LAX to LGA/DCA is a throwback to the HP hub days. DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH in the same way AA does.

While DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH, DL would prefer to connect passengers to LGA from LAX through ATL, DTW, CVG, or RDU instead.

Midwestindy · Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:56 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
I noticed all the DL podiums on C at CMH have been re-skinned with the same blue background, but the inclusion this time of individual gate numbers on each. The flight info displays aren't in yet, but I'm assuming they'll be the monitors you see everywhere else.

With the SLC add, there's going to be quite a bit of mainline metal on the ground in the mornings. If the typical schedules continue, you're looking at 3 ATL (738/739/M88/M90 most commonly), 1 MSP (738/739 lately), 1 SLC (319), and the LAX redeye (738) which gets in before 6am. That would use up C49-51 and 54-56, with 52 and 53 for RJs (and E170s/175s probably shuttled to and from the hangar).

On that note, AA's going to be in a similar boat in a few days, with 2 DFW (738/M80), 1 CLT, 1 PHX, and 1 LAX (all 319).

On the AA side it looks like the CLT mainline is being swapped for that second LAX flight. I would look for any winter mainline (CLT or a return of PHL) to appear in the afternoon. AA is pretty constrained on mainline gate capacity, with those operations being confined to the South side of B (19, 21, 23, 25). I would guess their next mainline gate would be B28, but I do not think it has been used for that in a long time. All good problems to have as the growth continues.

On a sort of related note, I am wondering if there is any reporting on the number of connecting passengers at CMH? I know that WN uses CMH for a few connections and have heard that AA does as well, especially going into LGA and DCA from PHX and LAX, but is there any data on that?

B20 can handle mainline and AA is one of the three(!) airlines laying claim to B36. US would occasionally stick a 737 at B22 back in the day, but that was in part because they only had B22/24/26 and 23.

The connection question is interesting, too. (That sounds like Midwestindy territory!) PHX/LAX to LGA/DCA is a throwback to the HP hub days. DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH in the same way AA does.

DL doesn't connect passengers through CMH, excluding the rare exception.

Pax number is avg per day

in Q2 AA connected some, but not too much
LAX-CMH-XXX=4 Pax
XXX-CMH-LAX=6 Pax
PHX-CMH-XXX=12 Pax
XXX-CMH-PHX=2 Pax

Here are some routes that WN connected a decent amount of passengers on
XXX-CMH-BOS =10.5 Pax
BOS-CMH-XXX=25 Pax
XXX-CMH-BWI=20 Pax
BWI-CMH-XXX=21 Pax
DCA-CMH-XXX=20 Pax
XXX-CMH-DCA=18 Pax
MDW-CMH-XXX=26 Pax
XXX-CMH-MDW=21 Pax

Don't know OAK numbers but I assume they would be decent

cledaybuck · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:30 pm

jplatts wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
The connection question is interesting, too. (That sounds like Midwestindy territory!) PHX/LAX to LGA/DCA is a throwback to the HP hub days. DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH in the same way AA does.

While DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH, DL would prefer to connect passengers to LGA from LAX through ATL, DTW, CVG, or RDU instead.

Checking a random date in March shows connections through ATL, MSP, DTW, and CVG.

brooklynchris13 · Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:48 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:

On the AA side it looks like the CLT mainline is being swapped for that second LAX flight. I would look for any winter mainline (CLT or a return of PHL) to appear in the afternoon. AA is pretty constrained on mainline gate capacity, with those operations being confined to the South side of B (19, 21, 23, 25). I would guess their next mainline gate would be B28, but I do not think it has been used for that in a long time. All good problems to have as the growth continues.

On a sort of related note, I am wondering if there is any reporting on the number of connecting passengers at CMH? I know that WN uses CMH for a few connections and have heard that AA does as well, especially going into LGA and DCA from PHX and LAX, but is there any data on that?

B20 can handle mainline and AA is one of the three(!) airlines laying claim to B36. US would occasionally stick a 737 at B22 back in the day, but that was in part because they only had B22/24/26 and 23.

The connection question is interesting, too. (That sounds like Midwestindy territory!) PHX/LAX to LGA/DCA is a throwback to the HP hub days. DL could theoretically connect LAX passengers to LGA through CMH in the same way AA does.

DL doesn't connect passengers through CMH, excluding the rare exception.

Pax number is avg per day

in Q2 AA connected some, but not too much
LAX-CMH-XXX=4 Pax
XXX-CMH-LAX=6 Pax
PHX-CMH-XXX=12 Pax
XXX-CMH-PHX=2 Pax

Here are some routes that WN connected a decent amount of passengers on
XXX-CMH-BOS =10.5 Pax
BOS-CMH-XXX=25 Pax
XXX-CMH-BWI=20 Pax
BWI-CMH-XXX=21 Pax
DCA-CMH-XXX=20 Pax
XXX-CMH-DCA=18 Pax
MDW-CMH-XXX=26 Pax
XXX-CMH-MDW=21 Pax

Don't know OAK numbers but I assume they would be decent

Thanks for that. I had no idea WN was connecting that many through CMH. While by no means a hub of course, it still adds up over the course of a month. And its interesting that AA is willing to route passengers through CMH (at least a few) and that DL is not. While I understand the purpose and economics of hubs, it is always good to have options, especially during irregular ops.

On a different note, F9 was having issues again when I was at CMH the other day. the inbound from MCO and the outbound were cancelled and the reactions were exactly what you would expect. I was left to wonder how they handle that, short of bringing a spare aircraft in. It does not seem they have slack to re-route people to other destinations given their swiss-cheese schedule at CMH...

Finally, I meant to respond earlier to the poster who mentioned that CRAA has been meeting with people in Europe about service since the 1980s. Yes, that is true. But Columbus is not the same place it was then or even ten years ago. I am sure Austin, Nashville, Pittsburgh and even Raleigh-Durham can point back to days on their calendars when they were in the slog to get international service and it seemed like it would never come. But, it did. Cities grow, change and sometimes die. Thankfully, we are in a metro area that is growing and has a stronger case each year for improved service and eventual true international flights (Sorry Air Canada, nothing personal... nor Delta... Nor USA 3000, etc). It will happen. Maybe not as soon as we like, but I would much rather be in our position than some others. Especially with recent successes.

papatango · Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:03 pm

Why did you say sorry Delta I thought Delta to AMS was rhe route everyone thought was the forerunner?

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