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qf789
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Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:52 am

Continued from the 2017 thread. Please continue to add your comments below

Link to 2017 thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1369725&p=19707747#p19707747

Have a great 2018
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717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:08 am

First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:32 am

717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


As I mentioned in the original thread, I believe FI is really getting significant feed from AS, since they are, again, partners. I believe last Summer, FI experimented with the morning flight with a Tu, Th and Sa (I think) departures. Then they also had a second evening flight (only 5 or 10 minutes from the original evening departure) on just Tu and Sa.

Apparently, tourism between SEA and Europe is booming. In addition to the added FI frequencies, SEA also gets a AF to CDG (reinstated), Thomas Cook to MAN in May or June, EI to DUB in May and Eurowings comes back with 2X weekly SEA-Cologne in June.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:46 am

717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


I think the 763 will be flying this route occasionally as well...
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:30 am

FA9295 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


I think the 763 will be flying this route occasionally as well...


Yes...one of the evening flights may be alternate between 757's and 763's...like it is now.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:40 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


As I mentioned in the original thread, I believe FI is really getting significant feed from AS, since they are, again, partners. I believe last Summer, FI experimented with the morning flight with a Tu, Th and Sa (I think) departures. Then they also had a second evening flight (only 5 or 10 minutes from the original evening departure) on just Tu and Sa.

Apparently, tourism between SEA and Europe is booming. In addition to the added FI frequencies, SEA also gets a AF to CDG (reinstated), Thomas Cook to MAN in May or June, EI to DUB in May and Eurowings comes back with 2X weekly SEA-Cologne in June.

Quick question about FI's departure times from SEA. One departs at 9:15 am and the others at 15:05 and 16:00. Obviously the latter two are for the connecting banks to Europe, but is the first departure, arriving in KEF around 11 pm, for O&D, kind of like DL on MSP-KEF?
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:59 pm

Yeah...I kind of wondered too. FI does actively and enthusiastically pitch their fee layovers in Iceland. Perhaps, there is enough demand for the O&D traffic related to the free layovers. Also, it could be used to ship freight for airplane spares and other things. Again, they may get significant connecting traffic from AS. Who would have thought there would be enough demand for 3X dailies to Iceland???
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:24 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Yeah...I kind of wondered too. FI does actively and enthusiastically pitch their fee layovers in Iceland. Perhaps, there is enough demand for the O&D traffic related to the free layovers. Also, it could be used to ship freight for airplane spares and other things. Again, they may get significant connecting traffic from AS. Who would have thought there would be enough demand for 3X dailies to Iceland???

I definitely didn't think there would be enough demand for 3x daily. Kind of makes me wonder if WOW Air would want to jump in on the route for all the backpackers and hipsters who'd want to go to Europe cheaply. It could be within A321NEO range, because Primera will fly theirs on EWR-CDG, a few miles longer than SEA-KEF. Just an idea, but I think it'd be a nice treat to have WOW at SEA.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:36 am

Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
n7371f
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:08 am

dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.


Lake Chelan quite popular last several years with all the NoCal $.

And Horizon's been as accurate/reliable as the local weather forecast.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:00 am

dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

As much as I’d like to see this happen, I have some serious doubts. EAT will likely get a DL service to SLC before UA to SFO. I’d even put UA to DEN before SFO.
 
QXFLYINGCOUG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:04 am

The reason why they wanted SFO is because of the business connections between Central Washington and the Bay Area. There are a lot of tech companies that have data centers in the Greater Webatchee area and are headquartered in the San Jose area. The Port raises enough money from local businesses and other donors that would help to pay the costs for such a route so then it isn’t a financial burden to the airline. I would like it if it was an Alaska/Skywest flight though so we could fly with miles, however, that would t be a moneymaker for the airline. With United/Skywest you’d have a lot more onward connections too.
--GO COUGS--
 
eaa3
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:13 am

717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


Icelandair is only going to 2x daily from 1.7x daily. Have a look at their booking engine and you'll see.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:15 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

I think this flight would do well with the tech traffic and connections. When (if it already hasn't) PSC-PDX returns and Horizon is stable again one or two EAT-PDX flights a day could also do well on a Q400 IMO.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:28 pm

I've been comparing Spirit's fares out of SEA and much to my surprise when I was looking in May (after DFW, ORD, FLL, and MSP start) they're more expensive than the legacies and F9. Does anyone know why this might be? I'm not trying to knock on Spirit but you'd think that even with the website usage fee that they'd be cheapest. NK's loads out of SEA are decent so I'm not worried, just curious why they're more expensive when on most other routes from other airports I checked NK is cheaper.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
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qf789
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:58 am

Asiana to send A359 to SEA from 31 July 18

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/
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dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:22 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

As much as I’d like to see this happen, I have some serious doubts. EAT will likely get a DL service to SLC before UA to SFO. I’d even put UA to DEN before SFO.

The Wenatchee area did raise enough revenue for the flight. If Delta served Wenatchee it would be to Seattle. https://www.flywenatchee.com/bay-area-flight/
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
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ER757
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:33 pm

qf789 wrote:
Asiana to send A359 to SEA from 31 July 18

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/

Great news - I believe that will be the first scheduled A350 service to SEA. DL flew theirs in here on a one-off a while back
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:18 am

ER757 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Asiana to send A359 to SEA from 31 July 18

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/

Great news - I believe that will be the first scheduled A350 service to SEA. DL flew theirs in here on a one-off a while back

I agree-it is great. An improvement in product to better compete against KE's (although only slightly over half-full) 77W and DL's 763. Even though I don't know which of myriad 77E configurations OZ uses on ICN-SEA, it's also slightly more seats a day, which is interesting. It's great to know SEA is getting its first A350 flight!
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:37 am

Sweet. Will have to mark that on the calendar and hope for south flow that day--those flights come directly over my home on most days.

qf789 wrote:
Asiana to send A359 to SEA from 31 July 18

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... july-2018/
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:42 pm

DL added SEA-IND/MCI/IAD starting in June! Excellent adds, and I think that they'll do great even if they don't connect well to Asian flights. SEA-MCI is on an E7W, departs SEA at 5:15 pm, gets into MCI at 10:45, departs MCI at 7:00, gets to SEA at 9:45. SEA-IND is an A319, leaves SEA at 10:10 am, gets to IND at 5:40 (similar times to AS SEA-IND flight), leaves IND at 6:15 pm, gets in at 7:30. SEA-IAD is a 738 that leaves at 10 pm, gets to IAD at 7 am, leaves IAD at 7:05, gets to SEA at 9:55.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:41 pm

717atOGG wrote:
DL added SEA-IND/MCI/IAD starting in June! Excellent adds, and I think that they'll do great even if they don't connect well to Asian flights. SEA-MCI is on an E7W, departs SEA at 5:15 pm, gets into MCI at 10:45, departs MCI at 7:00, gets to SEA at 9:45. SEA-IND is an A319, leaves SEA at 10:10 am, gets to IND at 5:40 (similar times to AS SEA-IND flight), leaves IND at 6:15 pm, gets in at 7:30. SEA-IAD is a 738 that leaves at 10 pm, gets to IAD at 7 am, leaves IAD at 7:05, gets to SEA at 9:55.


It's a significant expansion in terms of the number of cities served. But it's only a modest increase in number of flights. I think DL would increase flights more significantly if gate space wasn't so tight.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:53 am

My apologies for posting this late and I know that this has its own thread, but I thought that it would be nice to add this news here. AS announced their flights from PAE, with the destinations being SFO, SJC, LAX, SNA, SAN, LAS, PHX, and PDX for a total of 11 daily flights, on all-jet equipment. (I think E175) The adds all make sense, and with the significant amount of people wanting to have a hassle-free alternative for SEA, I think they will do well. I've been wrong before though, so you never know.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:55 am

eaa3 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
First of all, Happy New Year!
*Repost because it was posted right before the 2017 thread was locked*
*FI SEA-KEF MAY 1.7>3 JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.9>3 AUG 1.8>3 SEP 1.7>3

FI is 3x daily on SEA-KEF now. Absolutely crazy. I don't know if even JFK or BOS have this much frequency. It isn't showing up in bookings, but I'd assume one early-morning departure from SEA and two near-simultaneous departures in the late afternoon. I'd expect that they're all on 752. Clearly FI is doing well in SEA, and they have loads in the 90's during the summer. What really gets me is that now, KEF is the most frequently served European destination from SEA.


Icelandair is only going to 2x daily from 1.7x daily. Have a look at their booking engine and you'll see.

I checked, you're right. The morning flight is gone, and so are the onward connections.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
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7BOEING7
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:23 am

717atOGG wrote:
My apologies for posting this late and I know that this has its own thread, but I thought that it would be nice to add this news here. AS announced their flights from PAE, with the destinations being SFO, SJC, LAX, SNA, SAN, LAS, PHX, and PDX for a total of 11 daily flights, on all-jet equipment. (I think E175) The adds all make sense, and with the significant amount of people wanting to have a hassle-free alternative for SEA, I think they will do well. I've been wrong before though, so you never know.


Why assume E175, each of those destinations has multiple 737 flights from SeaTac daily and I don’t see Horizon\Skywest mentioned anywhere in the press release, unless they’re planning to bait and switch.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:16 pm

No records broken but Wenatchee (EAT) passenger numbers climbed 2% in 2017 compared to 2016.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:36 am

Spokane International Airport set a record in 2017.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/busi ... 10619.html

I'm really glad that many, many airports set a record in 2017.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
717atOGG
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:56 pm

OAG increases/decreases this week for Washington state airports:
B6 BOS-SEA APR 1.9>3
DL GEG-MSP SEP 2>3
DL SEA-ANC OCT 5>3
DL SEA-ATL JUN 9>8
*DL SEA-BOS JUN 1.8>3 JUL 1.8>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 1.5>3 OCT 1.5>3
DL SEA-BZN JUN 0.1>0.0
DL SEA-DTW OCT 6>5
DL SEA-LAS OCT 4>5
DL SEA-SJC JUN 6>5
FI SEA-KEF AUG 3>2 SEP 3>1.9


None of these are very surprising. The only notable things I noticed were that SEA-BOS is now 9 daily between AS, DL, and B6 which is surprising, and that 3rd daily SEA-KEF never showed up for booking, and this reflects that.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
tphuang
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:18 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/new ... ights.html
B6 starts mint service on BOS-SEA tomorrow and JFK-SEA on April 15th. They had a mint kick off event on Monday in Seattle inviting a lot of corporate types. Sounded like most of the attendees were unfamiliar with the mint concept, so going to take a while for mint to gain traction in Seattle.

I think there is a good chance they will add a daily FLL-SEA mint service if BOS/JFK-SEA perform well.
 
N174UA
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:13 am

dc10lover wrote:
No records broken but Wenatchee (EAT) passenger numbers climbed 2% in 2017 compared to 2016.


Yep...that awful winter last year, plus the QX pilot shortage didn't help, either. PSC saw a small decline for 2017, but will likely see that trend be reversed in 2018, with the resumption of PSC-PDX and hopefully a year-round flight to LAX.
Last edited by N174UA on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
N174UA
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:28 am

717atOGG wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

I think this flight would do well with the tech traffic and connections. When (if it already hasn't) PSC-PDX returns and Horizon is stable again one or two EAT-PDX flights a day could also do well on a Q400 IMO.


Not sure on the exact re-start date, but PSC-PDX is coming back on QX, using the Q400. I was looking at flights for Christmas, and saw it available on 12/21 to PDX and returning on 12/25. One flight per day, and at the same times as when it operated before.

I'd much rather see DL on this route, but a nonstop is a nonstop, right? And we have to take what we can get here in PSC.
 
ooslc
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:35 am

N174UA wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

I think this flight would do well with the tech traffic and connections. When (if it already hasn't) PSC-PDX returns and Horizon is stable again one or two EAT-PDX flights a day could also do well on a Q400 IMO.


Not sure on the exact re-start date, but PSC-PDX is coming back on QX, using the Q400. I was looking at flights for Christmas, and saw it available on 12/21 to PDX and returning on 12/25. One flight per day, and at the same times as when it operated before.

I'd much rather see DL on this route, but a nonstop is a nonstop, right? And we have to take what we can get here in PSC.


March 11th is the restart date. 1x daily.
    Ironically, I don't work for OO anymore, and I'm not in SLC anymore. PDX based, aviation enthusiast, non-aviation worker.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:18 pm

Wonder if United changed their schedule. The Pasco - San Francisco flight leaves close to the Pasco - Denver flight now. During the Summer I think the E175's for United Express will be back.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPSC
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:00 pm

Will WN ever add SEA-LAX nonstop service in the near future? NK has already discontinued SEA-LAX nonstop service, and VX SEA-LAX nonstop service will be discontinued with the discontinuation of the Virgin America brand on April 25th.

There are currently over 1.4 million passengers per year who travel between SEA and LAX, and there is a lot of demand for SEA-LAX nonstop service. WN has been recently expanding in California to better compete against AS, and WN could add SEA-LAX nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in the Los Angeles market. WN would also be able to connect passengers to TUS, ELP, AUS, and SAT from SEA through LAX if it adds SEA-LAX nonstop service.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:43 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will WN ever add SEA-LAX nonstop service in the near future? NK has already discontinued SEA-LAX nonstop service, and VX SEA-LAX nonstop service will be discontinued with the discontinuation of the Virgin America brand on April 25th.

There are currently over 1.4 million passengers per year who travel between SEA and LAX, and there is a lot of demand for SEA-LAX nonstop service. WN has been recently expanding in California to better compete against AS, and WN could add SEA-LAX nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in the Los Angeles market. WN would also be able to connect passengers to TUS, ELP, AUS, and SAT from SEA through LAX if it adds SEA-LAX nonstop service.


Aren't those VX flights switching over to AS? In any case, I doubt you'll see WN on SEA-LAX. They've stayed out of it for years and with the AS/DL gunfight going on, they probably have better things to do with that metal. Not sure why anyone would connect at LAX for SEA-AUS/ELP/SAT/TUS when 3/4 of those routes have non-stop out of SEA and anyone loyal to WN could make an easier connection in PHX...

Maybe WN throws a curve and takes a shot at PAE-LAX?
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1396
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:16 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Will WN ever add SEA-LAX nonstop service in the near future? NK has already discontinued SEA-LAX nonstop service, and VX SEA-LAX nonstop service will be discontinued with the discontinuation of the Virgin America brand on April 25th.

There are currently over 1.4 million passengers per year who travel between SEA and LAX, and there is a lot of demand for SEA-LAX nonstop service. WN has been recently expanding in California to better compete against AS, and WN could add SEA-LAX nonstop service in order to better compete against AS in the Los Angeles market. WN would also be able to connect passengers to TUS, ELP, AUS, and SAT from SEA through LAX if it adds SEA-LAX nonstop service.


Aren't those VX flights switching over to AS? In any case, I doubt you'll see WN on SEA-LAX. They've stayed out of it for years and with the AS/DL gunfight going on, they probably have better things to do with that metal. Not sure why anyone would connect at LAX for SEA-AUS/ELP/SAT/TUS when 3/4 of those routes have non-stop out of SEA and anyone loyal to WN could make an easier connection in PHX...


The VX SEA-LAX flights are going to be switched over to AS on April 25th.

I agree that WN might want to avoid going head-to-head with AS and DL on the SEA-LAX route with AS and DL both having hubs at both SEA and LAX. On the other hand, there might be room for WN to add SEA-LAX nonstop service with the discontinuation of NK SEA-LAX nonstop service and the discontinuation of the Virgin America brand.

WN is not unnecessarily unwilling to go head-to-head with DL on nonstop service from LAX to other DL hub airports as WN already does serve DL's ATL and SLC hubs nonstop from LAX. However, WN acquired the LAX-ATL and LAX-SLC nonstop routes through airline mergers. AA, UA, and AS also have hubs at LAX, but not at ATL or SLC. AS also has its home base at SEA.

I also agree that connections to AUS, ELP, SAT, and TUS can already be made through PHX on WN, and in addition, connections to all 4 of these destinations can also be made from SEA through LAS on WN. Some of these connections can also already be made from SEA through OAK, SJC, SMF, and DAL on WN.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:58 am

tphuang wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2018/02/12/jetblue-seatac-mint-lie-flat-seats-bos-jfk-flights.html
B6 starts mint service on BOS-SEA tomorrow and JFK-SEA on April 15th. They had a mint kick off event on Monday in Seattle inviting a lot of corporate types. Sounded like most of the attendees were unfamiliar with the mint concept, so going to take a while for mint to gain traction in Seattle.

I think there is a good chance they will add a daily FLL-SEA mint service if BOS/JFK-SEA perform well.

That's great! I thought they were planning to add it in 2017, since they announced it in spring 2016, but better late then never, I suppose. It's going to be a good competitor to DL with their D1 product on SEA-JFK, and a great differentiator from AS and DL on SEA-BOS. I agree that it'll take a while for Mint to gain traction however. I don't think that FLL-SEA on Mint will happen, but it's a possibility in a few years with a A320 IMO.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
tphuang
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:38 pm

SEA is the last of the announced cities to be added. Most likely because SEA is the toughest of the markets for mint given that they were the lowest yielding city for JetBlue for all the announced locations. And DL already offered 2 to 3 lie flat frequencies over summer time on JFK-SEA. Looking at the current BOS-SEA pricing numbers, looks like JetBlue is having a hard time gaining traction at least initially.

FLL is actually turning out to be really receptive to mint. Even FLL-SFO, which I wouldn't have thought to be a market where lie flat seats could work is doing really well. And FLL-SEA is a long transcon (even longer than BOS-SFO I think) that's quite high yielding for AS (and AA on MIA-SEA). A320 is the safer option to start, but it's not going to be very competitive and also have a lot of tech stops in winter time. So I think if they start FLL-SEA, there is a good chance it will be mint.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4511
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Sorry to break up the Mint conversation here. But just a reminder, Air France returns next month with 3X weekly 777-200ER's from SEA to CDG. I believe DL will start their 777-200ER flights to both CDG and HKG later next month as well.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:09 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Sorry to break up the Mint conversation here. But just a reminder, Air France returns next month with 3X weekly 777-200ER's from SEA to CDG. I believe DL will start their 777-200ER flights to both CDG and HKG later next month as well.

IIRC it was 5X weekly, but it definitely will be 3x during winter, as well as it will switch to an A332 during winter effective October 28.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:16 pm

Sorry for not posting this earlier, but F9 is adding SEA-AUS at the expense of frequencies from other routes. SEA-AUS is 4X (IIRC) weekly with an A320, redeye eastbound, late evening arrival into SEA westbound. It starts April 9, which is admittedly a pretty short lead time for this route. It’s summer-seasonal, which is understandable. However, SEA-DEN is going sub-daily at some points during the summer and SEA-CLE gets its daily flight halved in July and down to 2X weekly in August. Personally, I don’t think SEA-AUS will succeed, with such bad timing and the fact that it’s on F9. Who knows though, I could be wrong.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:53 am

American Airlines upgraded the Phoenix - Spokane flight from an A319 to an A321. Good to see this.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL583
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:01 am

717atOGG wrote:
Sorry for not posting this earlier, but F9 is adding SEA-AUS at the expense of frequencies from other routes. SEA-AUS is 4X (IIRC) weekly with an A320, redeye eastbound, late evening arrival into SEA westbound. It starts April 9, which is admittedly a pretty short lead time for this route. It’s summer-seasonal, which is understandable. However, SEA-DEN is going sub-daily at some points during the summer and SEA-CLE gets its daily flight halved in July and down to 2X weekly in August. Personally, I don’t think SEA-AUS will succeed, with such bad timing and the fact that it’s on F9. Who knows though, I could be wrong.

Seems F9 has no direction in life.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2045
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:12 am

dc10lover wrote:
American Airlines upgraded the Phoenix - Spokane flight from an A319 to an A321. Good to see this.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL583

I would assume just for spring break time.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4511
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:40 am

717atOGG wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Sorry to break up the Mint conversation here. But just a reminder, Air France returns next month with 3X weekly 777-200ER's from SEA to CDG. I believe DL will start their 777-200ER flights to both CDG and HKG later next month as well.

IIRC it was 5X weekly, but it definitely will be 3x during winter, as well as it will switch to an A332 during winter effective October 28.


Are you referring to Air France?
 
n7371f
Posts: 1347
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:45 am

That F9 can't think SEA-DEN daily in the summer isn't a $ maker...

dc10lover wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Sorry for not posting this earlier, but F9 is adding SEA-AUS at the expense of frequencies from other routes. SEA-AUS is 4X (IIRC) weekly with an A320, redeye eastbound, late evening arrival into SEA westbound. It starts April 9, which is admittedly a pretty short lead time for this route. It’s summer-seasonal, which is understandable. However, SEA-DEN is going sub-daily at some points during the summer and SEA-CLE gets its daily flight halved in July and down to 2X weekly in August. Personally, I don’t think SEA-AUS will succeed, with such bad timing and the fact that it’s on F9. Who knows though, I could be wrong.

Seems F9 has no direction in life.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
Sorry to break up the Mint conversation here. But just a reminder, Air France returns next month with 3X weekly 777-200ER's from SEA to CDG. I believe DL will start their 777-200ER flights to both CDG and HKG later next month as well.

IIRC it was 5X weekly, but it definitely will be 3x during winter, as well as it will switch to an A332 during winter effective October 28.


Are you referring to Air France?

Yes I am. Sorry for any confusion.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
User avatar
Acey559
Posts: 1181
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:22 am

dc10lover wrote:
Wonder if United changed their schedule. The Pasco - San Francisco flight leaves close to the Pasco - Denver flight now. During the Summer I think the E175's for United Express will be back.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KPSC


Those flights need to be on the 175. I hate having to ride a 200 on a 2+ hour flight, not to mention the number of times I’ve had to make alternate travel plans because the flights are full. Though admittedly all those bookings were close-in. I’m on one of the DEN flights or the SFO flight nearly every week and they are always packed and that’s not an exaggeration. Even when it was 2x 175 over Thanksgiving/Christmas. I was just looking at booking my folks on MLI-PSC via DEN and it shows a 175 as of mid-April, so hopefully it sticks this time.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:27 pm

tphuang wrote:
SEA is the last of the announced cities to be added. Most likely because SEA is the toughest of the markets for mint given that they were the lowest yielding city for JetBlue for all the announced locations. And DL already offered 2 to 3 lie flat frequencies over summer time on JFK-SEA. Looking at the current BOS-SEA pricing numbers, looks like JetBlue is having a hard time gaining traction at least initially.

FLL is actually turning out to be really receptive to mint. Even FLL-SFO, which I wouldn't have thought to be a market where lie flat seats could work is doing really well. And FLL-SEA is a long transcon (even longer than BOS-SFO I think) that's quite high yielding for AS (and AA on MIA-SEA). A320 is the safer option to start, but it's not going to be very competitive and also have a lot of tech stops in winter time. So I think if they start FLL-SEA, there is a good chance it will be mint.

I still respectfully disagree for now on FLL-SEA having Mint service. However, I agree with the A320 not having enough range in winter for the route, so I think it could be possible in a few years with a Core A321 or A320/21 NEO when they arrive. I just don't think it's going to happen on Mint right now, with NK entering FLL-SEA and thus driving down yields, AA having 2X daily flights sometimes to MIA, and AS year-round and DL winter seasonal on the route. Plus, IIRC, B6 has never started a route with Mint right out of the gate, so if FLL-SEA happens JetBlue would probably test the waters with a non-Mint plane first.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA
 
717atOGG
Posts: 543
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:48 pm

n7371f wrote:
That F9 can't think SEA-DEN daily in the summer isn't a $ maker...

dc10lover wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
Sorry for not posting this earlier, but F9 is adding SEA-AUS at the expense of frequencies from other routes. SEA-AUS is 4X (IIRC) weekly with an A320, redeye eastbound, late evening arrival into SEA westbound. It starts April 9, which is admittedly a pretty short lead time for this route. It’s summer-seasonal, which is understandable. However, SEA-DEN is going sub-daily at some points during the summer and SEA-CLE gets its daily flight halved in July and down to 2X weekly in August. Personally, I don’t think SEA-AUS will succeed, with such bad timing and the fact that it’s on F9. Who knows though, I could be wrong.

Seems F9 has no direction in life.

Their schedule is strange on SEA-DEN. It went from twice daily to thrice daily, then in summer it goes to sub-daily. F9 will obviously never drop SEA since it's arguably too important to not serve, but I think they won't be too adventurous with adding new routes from here. It baffles me that F9 can't make some routes out of SEA work (like ORD and PHX which were both started in 2016; ORD was dropped that year while PHX stayed around until S17 IIRC) while NK with the exception of LAX has succeeded in SEA, adding BWI, IAH, DTW, ORD, MSP, DFW, and FLL in the last 2 years.
SEA, BWI, HNL, OGG, PHX, IAD, LIH, DEN, SFO, KOA; 717, 73G, 738, 739, A320, A332; AS, HA, WN, UA

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