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dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:18 am

I have seen Delta use the 717 & A319 between Seattle and Spokane. https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KGEG
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:05 pm

Yesterday I saw that American Airlines is pulling back on SEA - LAX and going to use American Eagle jets. Is American Airlines giving that route to Alaska Airlines?
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Bellingham, Washington to Denver, Colorado on Allegiant Air

https://mobile.twitter.com/Allegiant/st ... 36/photo/1
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:51 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Yesterday I saw that American Airlines is pulling back on SEA - LAX and going to use American Eagle jets. Is American Airlines giving that route to Alaska Airlines?


It goes back and forth a lot. The service started out with all A319's. It has morphed into mostly Eagle with one or two mainline AA flights. It doesn't surprise me that they decide to go all Eagle. That could change for summer, however.
 
PI4EVER
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:40 pm

A bit of a departure from the previous posts and topic about B6, NK, etc. I lived in the mid-60's in Port Angeles when West Coast flew DC-3's and F-27's to/from Boeing Field. The service was lost I assume as a result of the AirWest/Hughes Air West combinations and the last scheduled airline service I saw any reference to was Kenmore Air that flew Caravans from Seattle a few years back.
Is it unlikely at this point that Port Angeles will remain without airline service? The bus service from the SEA area is a bit of a fun ride but tedious and flying to Victoria and connecting to the ferry is a very involved process as well & can be pricey.
Assume there simply is no airline market for P.A?
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:05 pm

dc10lover wrote:
Bellingham, Washington to Denver, Colorado on Allegiant Air

https://mobile.twitter.com/Allegiant/st ... 36/photo/1

I saw that last night at 10 pm, but I was too tired to post about it then. Nice to see something new at BLI! First add there since AS announced 1X weekly KOA 2 years ago. F9 actually served this route with an E190 in the past, but I don't know when it ended. If someone could tell me when that would be great. It's 2X weekly, summer seasonal. Even though there isn't much leisure demand for it, I could see it going year-round eventually.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:10 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Yesterday I saw that American Airlines is pulling back on SEA - LAX and going to use American Eagle jets. Is American Airlines giving that route to Alaska Airlines?


It goes back and forth a lot. The service started out with all A319's. It has morphed into mostly Eagle with one or two mainline AA flights. It doesn't surprise me that they decide to go all Eagle. That could change for summer, however.

I didn't think that they would go all Eagle, I'd have expected reduced frequency on all A319 because it's 5X daily now IIRC. The route has had the 738 in the past, although I don't know if it still does. I don't think they'll give the route to AS because they can't codeshare on SEA-LAX, and it's too important of a market to not serve, arguably.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:22 am

717atOGG wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Yesterday I saw that American Airlines is pulling back on SEA - LAX and going to use American Eagle jets. Is American Airlines giving that route to Alaska Airlines?


It goes back and forth a lot. The service started out with all A319's. It has morphed into mostly Eagle with one or two mainline AA flights. It doesn't surprise me that they decide to go all Eagle. That could change for summer, however.

I didn't think that they would go all Eagle, I'd have expected reduced frequency on all A319 because it's 5X daily now IIRC. The route has had the 738 in the past, although I don't know if it still does. I don't think they'll give the route to AS because they can't codeshare on SEA-LAX, and it's too important of a market to not serve, arguably.


The only thing that really keeps me from flying AA Eagle to LAX is parking at the small satellite terminal.
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2105
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:34 am

PI4EVER wrote:
A bit of a departure from the previous posts and topic about B6, NK, etc. I lived in the mid-60's in Port Angeles when West Coast flew DC-3's and F-27's to/from Boeing Field. The service was lost I assume as a result of the AirWest/Hughes Air West combinations and the last scheduled airline service I saw any reference to was Kenmore Air that flew Caravans from Seattle a few years back.
Is it unlikely at this point that Port Angeles will remain without airline service? The bus service from the SEA area is a bit of a fun ride but tedious and flying to Victoria and connecting to the ferry is a very involved process as well & can be pricey.
Assume there simply is no airline market for P.A?


Seems that since timber has fallen off, and seemingly general stagnant economy there ( although I have not been there since 2014) would preclude any sustainable scheduled service to Fairchild.
I was really looking forward to see how the SeaPort service was going to do that they were going to start at the time along with Moses Lake prior to their demise.
Maybe one thing hurting Kenmore was that they had the time consuming and not-too-convenient van transfer to SEA to/from BFI. One advantage to flying Horizon in the day was going thru security in relatively small and easy CLM.
Hopefully one day they will have service again.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:13 am

mtnwest1979 wrote:
PI4EVER wrote:
A bit of a departure from the previous posts and topic about B6, NK, etc. I lived in the mid-60's in Port Angeles when West Coast flew DC-3's and F-27's to/from Boeing Field. The service was lost I assume as a result of the AirWest/Hughes Air West combinations and the last scheduled airline service I saw any reference to was Kenmore Air that flew Caravans from Seattle a few years back.
Is it unlikely at this point that Port Angeles will remain without airline service? The bus service from the SEA area is a bit of a fun ride but tedious and flying to Victoria and connecting to the ferry is a very involved process as well & can be pricey.
Assume there simply is no airline market for P.A?


Seems that since timber has fallen off, and seemingly general stagnant economy there ( although I have not been there since 2014) would preclude any sustainable scheduled service to Fairchild.
I was really looking forward to see how the SeaPort service was going to do that they were going to start at the time along with Moses Lake prior to their demise.
Maybe one thing hurting Kenmore was that they had the time consuming and not-too-convenient van transfer to SEA to/from BFI. One advantage to flying Horizon in the day was going thru security in relatively small and easy CLM.
Hopefully one day they will have service again.


I was actually surprised that CLM didn't work out for Kenmore Air. The van connection between SEA and BFI shouldn't have been too bad. It's only about a 15 to 20 minute drive between the two airports. BFI has little or no security requirements. However, it's not the same on the return since you have to deal with SEA TSA.
 
Overthecascades
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:26 am

What’s being constructed outside of Main terminal and concourse D in SEA? You can see clearly from the main terminal or the Link station.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:30 am

Overthecascades wrote:
What’s being constructed outside of Main terminal and concourse D in SEA? You can see clearly from the main terminal or the Link station.

I believe it's a bus gate holdroom of sorts. The gates should be CUTE (I think airlines like F9, NK, and SY would use it) and it will be connected to Concourse D. It should open this spring, according to Port of Seattle. I'm flying out of SEA in June, and if I remember I'll try to get some pics of it.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:54 am

717atOGG wrote:
Overthecascades wrote:
What’s being constructed outside of Main terminal and concourse D in SEA? You can see clearly from the main terminal or the Link station.

I believe it's a bus gate holdroom of sorts. The gates should be CUTE (I think airlines like F9, NK, and SY would use it) and it will be connected to Concourse D. It should open this spring, according to Port of Seattle. I'm flying out of SEA in June, and if I remember I'll try to get some pics of it.


I'm flying out of SEA at the end of April. I'll take a gander as well.
 
Overthecascades
Posts: 161
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:40 am

Actually took a photo but can somebody tell me how to post it here? Looks like the structures up and it’s making good progress.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:32 am

Correct.

717atOGG wrote:
Overthecascades wrote:
What’s being constructed outside of Main terminal and concourse D in SEA? You can see clearly from the main terminal or the Link station.

I believe it's a bus gate holdroom of sorts. The gates should be CUTE (I think airlines like F9, NK, and SY would use it) and it will be connected to Concourse D. It should open this spring, according to Port of Seattle. I'm flying out of SEA in June, and if I remember I'll try to get some pics of it.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:05 am

Does anyone know how many "gates" there will be at this facility?
 
Redsand187
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:47 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:51 am

dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

Seem interesting that EAT could support a flight but YKM can't.... I'd think YKM to SFO or LAX would do better than EAT. Alaska needs to bring the E-Jet. I would think there is a lot of north-south traffic and YKM to LAX would be a good connection to Mexico/South America.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:10 am

Redsand187 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

Seem interesting that EAT could support a flight but YKM can't.... I'd think YKM to SFO or LAX would do better than EAT. Alaska needs to bring the E-Jet. I would think there is a lot of north-south traffic and YKM to LAX would be a good connection to Mexico/South America.

But Pasco / Tri - Cities have seasonal non - stop to LAX.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
BA
Posts: 10298
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:54 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
Does anyone know how many "gates" there will be at this facility?


Six.

https://www.portseattle.org/Business/Co ... stand.aspx
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2244
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:31 pm

PI4EVER wrote:
A bit of a departure from the previous posts and topic about B6, NK, etc. I lived in the mid-60's in Port Angeles when West Coast flew DC-3's and F-27's to/from Boeing Field. The service was lost I assume as a result of the AirWest/Hughes Air West combinations and the last scheduled airline service I saw any reference to was Kenmore Air that flew Caravans from Seattle a few years back.
Is it unlikely at this point that Port Angeles will remain without airline service? The bus service from the SEA area is a bit of a fun ride but tedious and flying to Victoria and connecting to the ferry is a very involved process as well & can be pricey.
Assume there simply is no airline market for P.A?


Actually with Port Angeles/Sequim booming about the time a 20 passenger plane can fly shorter distances with one pilot could see scheduled flights again. Anyway that has been a longtime hope for a renewal of small town flights. By the way the historic mosquito fleet is slowly reviving here on Puget Sound. Wife and I, along with friends are intending to take that bus to Port Angeles sometime this year. It does indeed look like a fun ride.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2244
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:32 pm

PI4EVER wrote:
A bit of a departure from the previous posts and topic about B6, NK, etc. I lived in the mid-60's in Port Angeles when West Coast flew DC-3's and F-27's to/from Boeing Field. The service was lost I assume as a result of the AirWest/Hughes Air West combinations and the last scheduled airline service I saw any reference to was Kenmore Air that flew Caravans from Seattle a few years back.
Is it unlikely at this point that Port Angeles will remain without airline service? The bus service from the SEA area is a bit of a fun ride but tedious and flying to Victoria and connecting to the ferry is a very involved process as well & can be pricey.
Assume there simply is no airline market for P.A?


Actually with Port Angeles/Sequim booming about the time a 20 passenger plane can fly shorter distances with one pilot could see scheduled flights again. Anyway that has been a longtime hope for a renewal of small town flights. By the way the historic mosquito fleet is slowly reviving here on Puget Sound. Wife and I, along with friends are intending to take that bus to Port Angeles sometime this year. It does indeed look like a fun ride.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:28 pm

LH has been using the 748 again since March 11 on SEA-FRA. Is this a summer upgauge or just temporary?
 
BA
Posts: 10298
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:44 am

"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
n7371f
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:02 am

That is strictly on the Port. They refused all suggestions, requests, to outsource project management to an outside entity with experience. This is what you get.

BA wrote:
 
Prost
Posts: 2222
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:34 am

My guess this will end up around $1 Billion.
 
User avatar
SEAxSANxBOS
Posts: 37
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:08 am

n7371f wrote:
That is strictly on the Port. They refused all suggestions, requests, to outsource project management to an outside entity with experience. This is what you get.

BA wrote:


Yes, and Delta frequently has people watching and reporting on the status of said construction...
Does not reflect the views of Delta Air Lines

Favorite Airports: SEA, SAN, BOS, MSP, IND, CVG
 
BA
Posts: 10298
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:58 pm

n7371f wrote:
That is strictly on the Port. They refused all suggestions, requests, to outsource project management to an outside entity with experience. This is what you get.

BA wrote:


I'm not a fan of the POS, but the delay is primarily driven due to the discovery of PCB decontamination in the soil that lead to a costly and time consuming soil removal/remediation effort that held up the landside construction.

I'm not sure how outsourcing project management of the project could have prevented this outcome.

If you go through the presentation, the contractor Clark Construction is coming up with a proposal to get the project back on schedule, but it means it will cost more. So the POS will have to decide whether to accept the slide or pump more $$$ to recover the schedule.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
n7371f
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:55 am

With all respect, completely disagree.

First shovel in the ground was a year late to begin with. At numerous stages, Delta, tried to convince the POS to drop its long-held desire of managing construction and hiring an outside firm with experience.

BA wrote:
n7371f wrote:
That is strictly on the Port. They refused all suggestions, requests, to outsource project management to an outside entity with experience. This is what you get.

BA wrote:


I'm not a fan of the POS, but the delay is primarily driven due to the discovery of PCB decontamination in the soil that lead to a costly and time consuming soil removal/remediation effort that held up the landside construction.

I'm not sure how outsourcing project management of the project could have prevented this outcome.

If you go through the presentation, the contractor Clark Construction is coming up with a proposal to get the project back on schedule, but it means it will cost more. So the POS will have to decide whether to accept the slide or pump more $$$ to recover the schedule.
 
Prost
Posts: 2222
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:55 am

I wish there were an independent airport commission. The POS has an awful lot going on, and there have been a lot of negative press in the past few years with CEOs, etc.
 
BA
Posts: 10298
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 pm

n7371f wrote:
With all respect, completely disagree.

First shovel in the ground was a year late to begin with. At numerous stages, Delta, tried to convince the POS to drop its long-held desire of managing construction and hiring an outside firm with experience.

BA wrote:
n7371f wrote:
That is strictly on the Port. They refused all suggestions, requests, to outsource project management to an outside entity with experience. This is what you get.



I'm not a fan of the POS, but the delay is primarily driven due to the discovery of PCB decontamination in the soil that lead to a costly and time consuming soil removal/remediation effort that held up the landside construction.

I'm not sure how outsourcing project management of the project could have prevented this outcome.

If you go through the presentation, the contractor Clark Construction is coming up with a proposal to get the project back on schedule, but it means it will cost more. So the POS will have to decide whether to accept the slide or pump more $$$ to recover the schedule.


The 5-month delay discussed in these documents has nothing to do with the year long delay to starting construction. That's a completely separate issue.

The September 2019 delivery target, was based on when they finally broke ground on the project last year.

This 5-month slide to February 2020, is due to the discovery of PCB contamination in the soil after they finally broke ground and this discovery would have happened irrespective of whether POS or an experienced independent firm were building the IAF.

The argument could perhaps be made that September 2019 delivery date was perhaps too aggressive and based on ideal/circumstances scenarios and an "unknown risk factor" buffer should have been added to the schedule to account for unforeseen discoveries/roadblock that could pop up during construction. If no major issues occur during construction, then the buffer isn't used and they beat the schedule.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3116
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:56 am

AF's re-indrocuced service from CDG started today, flight was about 30 minutes late arriving - they got the water cannon salute and the whole works. There was quite a crowd of spotters at the park just above the north employee parking lot - I got some shots but they were not up to A.Net standards. Good to see them back - this time around it's a 777 instead of the 330 the last time around.
 
SeaDoo
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:51 am

717atOGG wrote:
LH has been using the 748 again since March 11 on SEA-FRA. Is this a summer upgauge or just temporary?



Around Christmas they went to the 748. They dropped back to the 744. It wasn't always daily. I think they took some Tuesdays and Thursdays off. Then I think they used the A330 for two days. They went back to daily 748. Yesterday shows a 748, today a 744.
 
User avatar
SEAxSANxBOS
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:02 am

Redsand187 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Supposedly Wenatchee Washington - San Francisco starts Summer 2018 probably with United Express / Skywest. I don't see how this will work out especially if the schedule is terrible. Afternoon flight, forget it. I bet they will be using a 50 passenger crj200.

Seem interesting that EAT could support a flight but YKM can't.... I'd think YKM to SFO or LAX would do better than EAT. Alaska needs to bring the E-Jet. I would think there is a lot of north-south traffic and YKM to LAX would be a good connection to Mexico/South America.


I think once Aero Mexico starts flying to GDL, you will see Delta put in a flight to YKM and/or EAT. PSC often has many connection to the MEX redeye on AM.
Does not reflect the views of Delta Air Lines

Favorite Airports: SEA, SAN, BOS, MSP, IND, CVG
 
n7371f
Posts: 1394
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:03 am

All time delays are tied to one another...they're delays.

BA wrote:
n7371f wrote:
With all respect, completely disagree.

First shovel in the ground was a year late to begin with. At numerous stages, Delta, tried to convince the POS to drop its long-held desire of managing construction and hiring an outside firm with experience.

BA wrote:

I'm not a fan of the POS, but the delay is primarily driven due to the discovery of PCB decontamination in the soil that lead to a costly and time consuming soil removal/remediation effort that held up the landside construction.

I'm not sure how outsourcing project management of the project could have prevented this outcome.

If you go through the presentation, the contractor Clark Construction is coming up with a proposal to get the project back on schedule, but it means it will cost more. So the POS will have to decide whether to accept the slide or pump more $$$ to recover the schedule.


The 5-month delay discussed in these documents has nothing to do with the year long delay to starting construction. That's a completely separate issue.

The September 2019 delivery target, was based on when they finally broke ground on the project last year.

This 5-month slide to February 2020, is due to the discovery of PCB contamination in the soil after they finally broke ground and this discovery would have happened irrespective of whether POS or an experienced independent firm were building the IAF.

The argument could perhaps be made that September 2019 delivery date was perhaps too aggressive and based on ideal/circumstances scenarios and an "unknown risk factor" buffer should have been added to the schedule to account for unforeseen discoveries/roadblock that could pop up during construction. If no major issues occur during construction, then the buffer isn't used and they beat the schedule.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1433
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:38 am

Alaska dropping Seattle - Lewiston, Idaho flights.

http://lmtribune.com/northwest/flights- ... 78f79.html
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:09 pm

It's too bad that QX has never looked for a replacement 30 pax airplane like that ATR-42-500 or something. I've always thought that having a 70-pax jet along with a 70-pax prop was kind of unnecessary, but that's just the armchair CEO thing in me. Unfortunately, I think we'll see further reductions in QX's smaller communities as the airline brings in E-170's and removes more of the Q400's.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:32 pm

The lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on AS, DL, or WN is a huge hole. There were an average of 463 passengers a day who traveled between SEA and CLE in Q3 2017. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.
 
jplatts
Posts: 1741
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:53 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on AS, DL, or WN is a huge hole. There were an average of 463 passengers a day who traveled between SEA and CLE in Q3 2017. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.


So far, those airlines don't think so. However realistically, I think AS will be the first to fly the route. Doesn't Frontier fly the SEA-CLE route seasonally?


Frontier does fly the SEA-CLE nonstop route seasonally, but Frontier operates the SEA-CLE nonstop route on a less than daily basis. In addition, there are many travelers in the Seattle market who prefer to fly on Alaska, Delta, or Southwest over Frontier.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:53 pm

jplatts wrote:
The lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on AS, DL, or WN is a huge hole. There were an average of 463 passengers a day who traveled between SEA and CLE in Q3 2017. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.


So far, those airlines don't think so. However realistically, I think AS will be the first to fly the route. Doesn't Frontier fly the SEA-CLE route seasonally?
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:18 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on AS, DL, or WN is a huge hole. There were an average of 463 passengers a day who traveled between SEA and CLE in Q3 2017. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.


So far, those airlines don't think so. However realistically, I think AS will be the first to fly the route. Doesn't Frontier fly the SEA-CLE route seasonally?

F9 does with a redeye A321. Since there's almost no slack in Alaska's fleet, IMO DL is more likely to add SEA-CLE, most likely starting on an A319.
 
717atOGG
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:26 pm

If you remember, DY announced SEA-LGW on April 5 last year starting in September 2017. If, and this is a big if, because I don't have any sources backing this up, DY does another route announcement around the same time as last year, DY might announce SEA-OSL; as the route was rumored to start in Fall 2018, and after April, it's probably too late for them to announce something starting this fall.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4635
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:55 pm

717atOGG wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
The lack of nonstop service to CLE from SEA on AS, DL, or WN is a huge hole. There were an average of 463 passengers a day who traveled between SEA and CLE in Q3 2017. There is enough demand for AS, DL, or WN to add SEA-CLE nonstop service.


So far, those airlines don't think so. However realistically, I think AS will be the first to fly the route. Doesn't Frontier fly the SEA-CLE route seasonally?

F9 does with a redeye A321. Since there's almost no slack in Alaska's fleet, IMO DL is more likely to add SEA-CLE, most likely starting on an A319.


Could be. But gate space at SEA is very slim to none these days. DY (or DI) uses a remote stand for parking at SEA...near the AS hangar. And I'm sure DL has other destinations to SEA in mind before CLE. Who knows.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:04 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
It's too bad that QX has never looked for a replacement 30 pax airplane like that ATR-42-500 or something. I've always thought that having a 70-pax jet along with a 70-pax prop was kind of unnecessary, but that's just the armchair CEO thing in me. Unfortunately, I think we'll see further reductions in QX's smaller communities as the airline brings in E-170's and removes more of the Q400's.



I think the Q400 was probably the right way to go in a high-fuel cost/meh economy environment. As they gradually start pulling them down, it’ll be interesting to see which way they go. I’d be nice to see a third-tier carrier enter some of these markets with a smaller sircraft and code-share with either AS or DL.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:25 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
It's too bad that QX has never looked for a replacement 30 pax airplane like that ATR-42-500 or something. I've always thought that having a 70-pax jet along with a 70-pax prop was kind of unnecessary, but that's just the armchair CEO thing in me. Unfortunately, I think we'll see further reductions in QX's smaller communities as the airline brings in E-170's and removes more of the Q400's.



I think the Q400 was probably the right way to go in a high-fuel cost/meh economy environment. As they gradually start pulling them down, it’ll be interesting to see which way they go. I’d be nice to see a third-tier carrier enter some of these markets with a smaller sircraft and code-share with either AS or DL.


Yes...that would be nice, even if we're talking about Cape Air with Cessna 402's, Contour Airlines with J31's or even Silver Airways with ATR-42's. I'm sure there are some smaller communities that would benefit from affordable air travel...similar to OAK-CEC.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:36 pm

CLM
YKM
LWS
SLE
TWF

Etc plus perhaps GEG-BIL/BLI/GTF

We can dream.
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
jplatts
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:33 am

Will AS ever add Saturday-only nonstop service between SEA and LGA? AS is already at LGA with daily nonstop service to DAL from LGA, but AS can operate beyond-perimeter nonstops from LGA to its West Coast hubs and focus cities on Saturdays.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:32 am

I just don't get the fascination with Sat service at LGA? I get the Caribbean stuff - that makes sense. What is the great draw, though, to a once-a-week-on-a-Saturday transcon nonstop? Logistically you then need to schedule in a plane and crew from somewhere. With LGA being (I believe) all E175 now, you can't flow over LGA between DAL and SEA (for example).
-Dave


”Yet somewhere in Iceland a great anger stirred in the soul of a troubled individual...” - Revelation
 
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FA9295
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:39 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
CLM
YKM
LWS
SLE
TWF

Etc plus perhaps GEG-BIL/BLI/GTF

We can dream.

SLE would be great! Doubt it'll happen anytime soon though...

Wouldn't count on anything substantial from GEG. GEG-ANC was apparently a huge disaster and was immediately pulled after the route started (although that's completely different from the possible routes you mention above).
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
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FA9295
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Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:43 am

jplatts wrote:
Will AS ever add Saturday-only nonstop service between SEA and LGA? AS is already at LGA with daily nonstop service to DAL from LGA, but AS can operate beyond-perimeter nonstops from LGA to its West Coast hubs and focus cities on Saturdays.

That would be great! Although, I wouldn't count on it. AS has their entry point to LGA from DAL, and it's likely going to stay that way unless they decide to pull back at DAL.

I would love Saturday-only SEA-LGA and PDX-LGA routes. But if anything, they would likely start it from SFO and LAX instead of SEA and PDX since the demand for California-New York routes are probably much higher in demand than Pacific Northwest-New York routes.
Last edited by FA9295 on Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
No, "FA" in my username does not stand for "flight attendant"...
 
wedgetail737
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Washington State Air Service Discussion 2018

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:46 am

As QX removes Q400's from service, I think we'll see more and more smaller communities losing QX service.
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