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SQ22
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Caribbean Aviation Thread - 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:07 am

Happy new year to all of you.

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1353639&p=19313265#p19313265
 
beeweel15
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:08 pm

"FROM THE PREVIOUS THREAD"
BW's entire fleet of five ATR 72-600 turboprop aircraft down for the last three days.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2017-12- ... ng-trouble
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I dont know but through out the years even when BWIA was in existence there always seems to be a major breakdown with the airbridge during peak holiday periods whether it is Easter or Christmas
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:48 pm

BW denies that its ATR fleet is grounded.

https://guardian.co.tt/news/2017-12-31/cal-no-problems-atrs
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:54 pm

Exactly. Poor and sensationalist reporting. I checked BWs flights on flightradar24 over the last several days and all their ATR flights to GND, SVD, SLU and BGI operated and almost all ONTIME.

I am seriously appalled at the declining standards of media reports in the Caribbean, especially from a paper with the caliber of Guardian. I expect this nonsense from FAUX (FOX) news.


And as I suspect many of the impacted passengers didn't have reservations. BW should charge higher fares for same day passengers to force people to make reservations.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:17 pm

Also, isn't the $50 change fee meant to encourage people to keep their reservations unchanged?
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:19 pm

 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:20 pm

 
richard757
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:04 pm

Two ATR 72-600s are used to GND, BGI, SVD ,SLU and CCS. Most are on time with the exception of GND late evening flights. Tobago flights have been operating with delays as much as three and a half hours. The traveling public is losing confidence with these planes. On December 26th, BW 1550 at 10.45 pm was canceled and passengers were flown on December 27th at 9.00 am on a Boeing 737-800. What a lengthy delay!
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:42 pm

The Insel deal with AV fell through. So what future does Insel have? Will they ever be anything other than connecting the Dutch Caribbean?
 
LimaFoxTango
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm

A loan of US 7 Million dollars was finalised for regional air carrier Liat in closing days of 2017. Prime Minister Gonsalves made the announcement at his first press conference for the year 2018. Gonsalves said the loan was finalized by shareholder governments including, Antigua and Barbuda, Barbados and SVG.

https://news784.com/news/new-years-gift ... -for-liat/
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:55 am

Well I guess its appropriate that the BGI portion of the loan is highest given that its only a matter of time before LI relocates most of its operations to that island. LI has been ignoring its northern routes for a while and now others have moved in. I wonder how long it will take ANU to want to reduce its ownership interests in LI, therefore its loan guarantee/subsidy obligations, given that ANU is going to play a lower role in LI's network as a result of this.

Inter Carib now provides connectivity for EIS via ANU for BA and VS, together with VI Link. Air Sunshine is filling the gap for USVI SKB/SXM service. And WM is now the dominant carrier from the neighboring islands to SXM, competing with Inter Carib out of EIS. Inter Carib also connects the USVI to ANU and DOM via EIS. Inter Carib's service is effective from next month.

Lucky for LI SVD isn't getting much jet service though BW is trying to get permission to do JFK SVD and AA is rumored to be looking at MIA SVD.
 
BonaireFly
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:36 pm

guyanam wrote:
The Insel deal with AV fell through. So what future does Insel have? Will they ever be anything other than connecting the Dutch Caribbean?


I called it from the moment they announced it last year. They should just cut their and publics losses and try to run a healthy airline that focuses on connecting the Dutch Caribbean Islands in co-operation with Winair. The other primary markets in the region are well served by Avianca, Copa, PAWA, American Airlines, Jet Blue, Surinam Airways and a bunch of Venezuelan carriers. Instead of trying to compete in those markets with a local airline the government should focus on courting external competition on in those markets.

Copa, Wingo, Lan Colombia or Viva Colombia could easily fly from different points in Colombia without even competing with Avianca directly on the Curacao-Bogota route.
Insel could do with some form of partnership with Winair and PAWA to connect the ABC islands with their networks.
Miami is well served by American, and JetBlue has been steadily growing the New York route. Fort Lauderdale and seasonal Orlando flights could would both be easy additions.
A Port of Spain-Curacao-Kingston route should also be a no-brainer for Caribbean Airlines.

I fail to see a raison d'etere for Insel Air beyond connecting the ABC islands and St.Maarten with each other.

Aruba has direct connections to many routes and Sunwing just launched the Torono-Bonaire route, American Airlines due to start the Miami-Bonaire route in this Spring/Summer. The Dutch government is also actively working on starting an airline to connect Bonaire with St.Eustatius directly, and Saba through St. Eustatius. Between the ABC's Aruba Airlines just launched flights with CRJ regional jets (though I have my doubts how long they can keep that up with regional jets), and Divi Divi Air is also growing with Twin Otters and will soon launch scheduled flights to Aruba from both Curacao and Bonaire.

If Insel doesn't focus soon they're going to lose their bread and butter too.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:47 pm

Winair to replace PAWA's MD-83 with Sunrise Airways's A320 as wet-lease operator. Currently, the MD-83 is used for CUR-PAP-SXM-CUR, but from 17 January the A320 will be twice-weekly PAP-SXM. The A320 has 12 seats in Business and 138 in Economy.
 
303dk
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:02 pm

Silver has purchased Seaborne. Any thoughts?
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:34 am

303dk wrote:
Silver has purchased Seaborne. Any thoughts?



That the notion that Seaborne would have grown to what American Eagle once was happened to be pure fantasy. I guess more $$$ wasted by the PR gov't. Maybe Silver with its large FL operations might bring some scale economies.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:38 am

gunnerman wrote:
Winair to replace PAWA's MD-83 with Sunrise Airways's A320 as wet-lease operator. Currently, the MD-83 is used for CUR-PAP-SXM-CUR, but from 17 January the A320 will be twice-weekly PAP-SXM. The A320 has 12 seats in Business and 138 in Economy.


Sunrise is also doing PAP CUR so PAP doesn't need Insel, or PAWA for that matter. With Insel back on the SXM CUR with daily jet flights I couldn't see WM with its 2X lasting. SXM is gradually recovering and so the VFR on the PAP SXM should be back.

One possibility for Insel might be flights to SDQ as PAWA is looking financially wobbly right now. Though it is said that they plan their long delayed SDQ JFK sometime this year.
 
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Boair
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:22 pm

Is PAWA still flying the DC9 ?
A313 A318 A319 A320 A321 A330 A343 A380 B734 B73H B738 B744 B752 B763 B77E B77W B788 B789 AT72 DH8D MD88 E145 IL96 PC6
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Reports are that BWs HAV POS service took off with good loads with the vast majority headed to GEO. BW is cheaper than CM.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:47 pm

I know of some Grenadians who are using BW's new service to HAV. It's a filthy early departure from GND at 0600, but there is no other good option.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:33 pm

I think that folks are accustomed to those hours as unless one takes the early bird LIAT its hard to know when one will arrive. LI usually starts the day early, but its sometimes down hill after that. I am always surprised to see how many are on those "crack of dawn" flights in the Eastern Caribbean.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:59 pm

As someone who has occasionally taken the BW601 from POS to GEO which departs at 0610, it's a hassle as I have to stay in an airport hotel the previous night.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:54 am

Has Insel found investors? Avianca was reportedly interested at one point.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:30 pm

AV is no longer interested as local rules demand that the management of a Dutch Caribbean carrier have to located on the island itself. Synergy was planning to manage it from its AV headquarters.

Apparently the Curacao gov't wasn't going to change the rules. Maybe because of route right issues if other jurisdictions (the US) deny access with claims that Insel was a Colombian and not a Curacao carrier.
 
GUYAIR707
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:45 am

guyanam wrote:
I think that folks are accustomed to those hours as unless one takes the early bird LIAT its hard to know when one will arrive. LI usually starts the day early, but its sometimes down hill after that. I am always surprised to see how many are on those "crack of dawn" flights in the Eastern Caribbean.


Very true. I have been using LI GEO-BGI with connections to NY, and the return leg on the midday flight is usually delayed. I think that is an incoming flight from ANU. I am on that flight on Monday, I hope it is on time. The 6am GEO-BGI flight usually departs as scheduled.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:45 pm

The LI521 used to originate from ANU, now it's SKB. Routeing is SKB-ANU-BGI-OGL.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:47 pm

gunnerman wrote:
The LI521 used to originate from ANU, now it's SKB. Routeing is SKB-ANU-BGI-OGL.



Post Maria/Irma when the morning flight out of EIS was canceled. The 527 EIS SKB ANU connected to the 521.
 
303dk
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:15 pm

The Curaçao Chronicle is reporting that all of PAWA’s operations have been suspended
 
beeweel15
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:37 pm

303dk wrote:
The Curaçao Chronicle is reporting that all of PAWA’s operations have been suspended


I was beaten to the finish line but here is the article.

http://curacaochronicle.com/aviation/pa ... l-support/
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:49 pm

Oh well. There goes the theory that some expound that the private sector is the panacea for Caribbean aviation. Insel now a de facto gov't carrier, having failed as a private one, and now PAWA is stranding people around the Caribbean. PAWA's financial challenges have been well known for quite a while as the Winair passengers who were stranded at PAP for several days will testify.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:21 pm

guyanam wrote:
Oh well. There goes the theory that some expound that the private sector is the panacea for Caribbean aviation. Insel now a de facto gov't carrier, having failed as a private one, and now PAWA is stranding people around the Caribbean. PAWA's financial challenges have been well known for quite a while as the Winair passengers who were stranded at PAP for several days will testify.

I don't think the argument was ever made that private sector was automatically better. I think historically, the argument has been that political interference in state run/gov't owned airlines has been very damaging to those airlines. And I think most would agree that it has been. What should be happening in the region IMO is that the state run/gov't owned airlines should be run as if they were private entities where= commercial interests drive the decision making. rivate entities in the Caribbean don't have the capability to raise the required capital to run an airline long term and withstand what can be significant losses during down periods. That is why gov't ownership is necessary. However, the culture surrounding said entities must be revamped entirely.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:05 pm

CM will start flights to BGI this year.
From Twitter:
Eduardo Lim Yueng @limyueng
@CopaAirlines anuncia 3 nuevos destinos este 2018, Fortaleza y Salvador en Brasil, y Bridgetown en Barbados

https://twitter.com/limyueng/status/958029289668177923
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:32 pm

you beat me to it Kligen, I don't see any mention of frequencies though. perhaps 2 or 3 X E190
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
baje427
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:36 am

According to the news here in BGI it will be a 2 times a week service operated by the E190 lets see if this route works.
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:50 pm

baje427 wrote:
According to the news here in BGI it will be a 2 times a week service operated by the E190 lets see if this route works.


It should and it should build. at 2 X weekly it is not very attractive to business travellers. Going to SJO from BGI for example might still be better via MIA.
However once shoppers in BGI discover PTY.....they might give up MIA. :bouncy:
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:05 pm

yellowtail wrote:
baje427 wrote:
According to the news here in BGI it will be a 2 times a week service operated by the E190 lets see if this route works.


It should and it should build. at 2 X weekly it is not very attractive to business travellers. Going to SJO from BGI for example might still be better via MIA.
However once shoppers in BGI discover PTY.....they might give up MIA. :bouncy:


Specially since, Barbadians can go to Panama visa free. Many of the Caribbean destinations starts with 2 fx per week to see how the demand is. If they do well, they get upgraded to 4 fx per week.
 
xdlx
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:14 pm

The only way Seaborne could resemble the shadow of Executive.... is to go beyond 12-16 frames and create a feedstock into SJU.
 
303dk
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:07 pm

xdlx wrote:
The only way Seaborne could resemble the shadow of Executive.... is to go beyond 12-16 frames and create a feedstock into SJU.


They also would need international to international visa-free connections. The airport has room to build it, but I don’t see it happening.
 
windian425
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:41 pm

LATIN AMERICA GETS MAJOR BOOST AS BARBADOS ANNOUNCES NEW PARTNERSHIP WITH COPA AIRLINES

The Honourable Richard Sealy, Minister of Tourism and International Transport, just announced a new partnership with Copa Airlines from his offices in Two Mile Hill, St. Michael. The deal will see Barbados’ Grantley Adams International Airport (GAIA) receiving a twice-weekly service direct from Panama City, Panama, commencing July 17th 2018.

“Today we are happy to announce a new partnership with an airline that we have been after for some time, Copa, coming out of the Tocumen International Airport in Panama City,” Sealy said. “I of course want to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Pedro Heilbron, the CEO of Copa, who we have been talking with for a number of years, for finally making this flight a reality. As a matter of fact, he is announcing the flight today and it is going to be loaded on the Copa systems, so Barbadians and Panamanians and persons from beyond the gateway in either direction will be able to book from as early as tonight to fly Copa direct between Panama City and Barbados.”

The new service will feature an Embraer 190, which offers 84 Economy seats and 10 Business Class seats, for a total 94-seat configuration.

A member of the Star Alliance, Copa Airlines is the flag carrier of Panama and one the leading Latin American providers of passenger and cargo services to countries in North, Central, South America and the Caribbean. Its hub of the Americas is strategically located at Tocumen International Airport in Panama, and it offers more destinations and frequencies than any other hub in Latin America, leading the way as the most connected airport in the region.

“It’s important for several reasons,” Sealy added. “The government has been embarking actively on diversifying our source markets and the Latin American region of course has received attention. This partnership with Copa allows us not only to get business from Colombia and Brazil but also the rest of Latin America and we look forward to seeing the Latin America market grow tremendously.”

Building on Barbados’ long history with Panama
Also citing the cultural implications of the new service, Sealy said that he couldn’t help but mention the very strong historical connections between the Republic of Panama and Barbados. “We all know of the role that Barbadians played in constructing the Panama Canal, so there are many Panamanians with Barbados antecedents, and of course there are many Barbadians who will be delighted to go and see Panama. So even beyond tourism, the cultural exchanges that can ensue from this service are tremendous.”

Outstanding tourism performance is the key
Sealy’s announcement comes on the heels of yet another stellar year for Barbados tourism. Preliminary statistics have already revealed that both the air and cruise port arrival numbers surpassed those of 2017.

Speaking on last year’s performance, Sealy said, “We were expecting about 650,000 long stay visitors and we actually are at 660,000, so we have gone past our target in a very positive way and
- more -
we are also satisfied with the strategy of increased airlift, of increasing room stock, of improving our product offering, and developing better events, that we can continue to see these numbers grow; and more importantly that the economic impact will also grow, thus seeing improved economic opportunities for this island, and of course, improved quality of life for all our citizens.”
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Oh well. There goes the theory that some expound that the private sector is the panacea for Caribbean aviation. Insel now a de facto gov't carrier, having failed as a private one, and now PAWA is stranding people around the Caribbean. PAWA's financial challenges have been well known for quite a while as the Winair passengers who were stranded at PAP for several days will testify.

I don't think the argument was ever made that private sector was automatically better. I think historically, the argument has been that political interference in state run/gov't owned airlines has been very damaging to those airlines. And I think most would agree that it has been. What should be happening in the region IMO is that the state run/gov't owned airlines should be run as if they were private entities where= commercial interests drive the decision making. rivate entities in the Caribbean don't have the capability to raise the required capital to run an airline long term and withstand what can be significant losses during down periods. That is why gov't ownership is necessary. However, the culture surrounding said entities must be revamped entirely.



There were those who demanded that LI and BW should be privatized and that would solve their problems. Well we had Caribbean Star, BWIA and JM and they all failed as private carriers. Butch Stewart generated way more losses when he owned JM than we have seen in any other Caribbean carrier.

In fact I have said that Caribbean carriers should remain state owned, but should be managed as privately owned entities without government interference.

But it is clear that the expertise to manage airlines doesn't reside in the Caribbean's private sector. There is the additional challenge that foreigners moving into Caribbean space don't necessarily understand the particular challenges of Caribbean aviation. Redjet was an example of this. Many on this Caribbean Aviation forum predicted its demise as soon as it opened because its business model was ludicrously flawed.
 
guyanam
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:21 pm

303dk wrote:
xdlx wrote:
The only way Seaborne could resemble the shadow of Executive.... is to go beyond 12-16 frames and create a feedstock into SJU.


They also would need international to international visa-free connections. The airport has room to build it, but I don’t see it happening.


SJU as a hub is never going to happen again. As it is most of the intransit activity thru SJU is tied to people travelling to the USVI/BVI. Aside from tiny markets like AXA, SBH, NEV, and DOM there is no longer need for SJU, other than thru to the VI.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:24 pm

yellowtail wrote:
baje427 wrote:
According to the news here in BGI it will be a 2 times a week service operated by the E190 lets see if this route works.


It should and it should build. at 2 X weekly it is not very attractive to business travellers. Going to SJO from BGI for example might still be better via MIA.
However once shoppers in BGI discover PTY.....they might give up MIA. :bouncy:



I think that it was said that AV wasn't doing too badly into BGI and that this ended only because of Venezuelan restrictions to flying over its air space. If that is the case CM should be OK. CM might even be seeing some BGI business using its POS route.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:35 pm

guyanam wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
guyanam wrote:
Oh well. There goes the theory that some expound that the private sector is the panacea for Caribbean aviation. Insel now a de facto gov't carrier, having failed as a private one, and now PAWA is stranding people around the Caribbean. PAWA's financial challenges have been well known for quite a while as the Winair passengers who were stranded at PAP for several days will testify.

I don't think the argument was ever made that private sector was automatically better. I think historically, the argument has been that political interference in state run/gov't owned airlines has been very damaging to those airlines. And I think most would agree that it has been. What should be happening in the region IMO is that the state run/gov't owned airlines should be run as if they were private entities where= commercial interests drive the decision making. rivate entities in the Caribbean don't have the capability to raise the required capital to run an airline long term and withstand what can be significant losses during down periods. That is why gov't ownership is necessary. However, the culture surrounding said entities must be revamped entirely.



There were those who demanded that LI and BW should be privatized and that would solve their problems. Well we had Caribbean Star, BWIA and JM and they all failed as private carriers. Butch Stewart generated way more losses when he owned JM than we have seen in any other Caribbean carrier.

In fact I have said that Caribbean carriers should remain state owned, but should be managed as privately owned entities without government interference.

But it is clear that the expertise to manage airlines doesn't reside in the Caribbean's private sector. There is the additional challenge that foreigners moving into Caribbean space don't necessarily understand the particular challenges of Caribbean aviation. Redjet was an example of this. Many on this Caribbean Aviation forum predicted its demise as soon as it opened because its business model was ludicrously flawed.


I suspect when people say this, they usually mean they'd like to see a LI/BW w/o political interference w/o considering the financial impact of privatization. Few will recognize that the govt's are the only entity in the Caribbean both willing and able to withstand the potentially significant losses that these airlines generate. There may be some private entities that have the ability to sustain losses for prolonged periods but they are definitely not doing that willingly. The biggest problem that the region faces is that structurally, the ability to generate respectable profits runs almost completely counter to delivering the kind of service that people want. You could make profits as a small, niche carrier flying tiny turboprops to a handful of islands in one section of the region but that's not what the public at large generally wants from a regional carrier. They want one with the ability to fly them the length and breadth of the region with convenient frequencies which is a recipe for losses as there simply isn't sufficient traffic throughout the region to do that profitably consistently.
 
baje427
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:04 pm

guyanam wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
baje427 wrote:
According to the news here in BGI it will be a 2 times a week service operated by the E190 lets see if this route works.


It should and it should build. at 2 X weekly it is not very attractive to business travellers. Going to SJO from BGI for example might still be better via MIA.
However once shoppers in BGI discover PTY.....they might give up MIA. :bouncy:



I think that it was said that AV wasn't doing too badly into BGI and that this ended only because of Venezuelan restrictions to flying over its air space. If that is the case CM should be OK. CM might even be seeing some BGI business using its POS route.



I have also heard the AV route was not performing so poorly either but the extra 2 hours required to avoid Venezuelan airspace made rendered made it inviable. If the prices are competitive to make PTY a MIA shopping alternative then yes Bajans would give it a go but as it stands the fares from BGI to South Florida are very attractive. .
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:10 pm

baje427 wrote:
guyanam wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
I have also heard the AV route was not performing so poorly either but the extra 2 hours required to avoid Venezuelan airspace made rendered made it inviable. If the prices are competitive to make PTY a MIA shopping alternative then yes Bajans would give it a go but as it stands the fares from BGI to South Florida are very attractive. .



Prices in PTY are often cheaper than in Miami. Allbrook, Multiplaza, Soho, even the Free Zone....name your price point. Time for Bajans to give up Dolphin and Aventura in MIA
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
guyanam
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:55 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
[I suspect when people say this, they usually mean they'd like to see a LI/BW w/o political interference w/o considering the financial impact of privatization. Few will recognize that the govt's are the only entity in the Caribbean both willing and able to withstand the potentially significant losses that these airlines generate. There may be some private entities that have the ability to sustain losses for prolonged periods but they are definitely not doing that willingly. The biggest problem that the region faces is that structurally, the ability to generate respectable profits runs almost completely counter to delivering the kind of service that people want. You could make profits as a small, niche carrier flying tiny turboprops to a handful of islands in one section of the region but that's not what the public at large generally wants from a regional carrier. They want one with the ability to fly them the length and breadth of the region with convenient frequencies which is a recipe for losses as there simply isn't sufficient traffic throughout the region to do that profitably consistently.



I think that various governments have non commercial reasons to maintain these carriers. For instance one might query whether POS needs its own airline as it is a viable market so that AA, B6, WS, and AC can and will increase service if BW were to be shut down. However BW does generate indirect benefits for T&T with a sizeable and reasonably well paid employee base and maintaining the levels of aviation related skills that the country has had over the 70+ years that it has had an airline based there.

KX clearly provides a development role for GCM, building new routes that show potential and ensuring competition on other routes seen as strategic to the Cayman Islands. They receive government subsidies as the Cayman gov't deems necessary. When Ivan wiped out GCM and carriers were reluctant to return it was KX which provided valuable connections to the outside world to prevent the collapse of its offshore finance and tourism sectors.

LI is clearly a utility. All one needs to do is to sit down all day at BGI and see the planes taking off to other parts of the Eastern Caribbean to see that it actually functions like the "Greyhound of the Eastern Caribbean". Travel within this region is often lumpy. Many times flights take off with as few as 20 passengers, but if there is a carnival, cricket or a music festival, or Easter then people are literally fighting for seats, so its hard for this to be purely commercial. At times it maybe something as simple as someone hosting a big "fete" and people arriving from neighboring islands to attend, or some big religious event, or a youth camp, etc. Eastern Caribbean people are way more socially integrated than they are aware of. Traffic isn't always predictably seasonal yet people expect easy transportation around the region.

LI has already eliminated most of its least profitable routes. Irma/Maria has led to reduced service on the northern end of its routes where some might argue that traffic was declining and that its planes were too large. Carriers like Winair, Inter Caribbean, VI Airlink and Air Sunshine are filling the gap for travel within the northeast Caribbean leaving LI to connect some islands to its destinations further south where populations are larger, meaning a better use of its ATR planes.

I bet that UP has similar challenges on its intra Bahamas routes.

The best that one can demand is that the airlines are run as efficiently as possible with minimum irrational gov't interference. And that some arrangement be made to offer direct subsidies on "social routes" an obvious example being the TAB bridge where fares are lower than would otherwise be the case. And that competent management be put in place.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:53 am

Profitability is not something that has usually been expected of Caribbean airlines. Ian Bertrand told me that when he was appointed chief executive of BWIA, he was told to try and not lose money. In contrast, Butch Stewart promised profitability for JM but discovered that the airline business is a lot more complicated and a lot easier to lose megabucks than the hotel business.
 
Brickell305
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Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:27 am

baje427 wrote:
guyanam wrote:
yellowtail wrote:

It should and it should build. at 2 X weekly it is not very attractive to business travellers. Going to SJO from BGI for example might still be better via MIA.
However once shoppers in BGI discover PTY.....they might give up MIA. :bouncy:



I think that it was said that AV wasn't doing too badly into BGI and that this ended only because of Venezuelan restrictions to flying over its air space. If that is the case CM should be OK. CM might even be seeing some BGI business using its POS route.



I have also heard the AV route was not performing so poorly either but the extra 2 hours required to avoid Venezuelan airspace made rendered made it inviable. If the prices are competitive to make PTY a MIA shopping alternative then yes Bajans would give it a go but as it stands the fares from BGI to South Florida are very attractive. .

Not only are fares from BGI to So. Fla very attractive, the average Bajan is also more likely to have friends/family in the Miami area than in Panama. Also, as this isn’t a daily flight, it may require people to stay longer than they otherwise would have requiring extra nights at a hotel. And while hotels in Panama City are relatively cheap (or at least they were when I used to frequent there), it’s still an additional cost. I really don’t think the market is Bajan going on shopping trips. The overwhelming majority will still head to Miami and New York. This is about getting Latin American tourists to BGI.
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:45 pm

If the business plan for CM in BGI is only about getting tourists to BGI the route would never have been announced. This is about a mix of traffic with Business traffic as it’s backbone.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
A388
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:36 pm

yellowtail wrote:
If the business plan for CM in BGI is only about getting tourists to BGI the route would never have been announced. This is about a mix of traffic with Business traffic as it’s backbone.


Man it's been a very long time since I last posted here. Good day to you all!!!! CM going to BGI, I like it but not sure if it will last especially when looking at all other South American airlines that have failed to BGI. Business traffic? How much business traffic is there really to BGI from South America or any similarly sized island in the Caribbean? Even so, I do wish them good luck of course.

A388
 
Brickell305
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Caribbean aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:36 pm

yellowtail wrote:
If the business plan for CM in BGI is only about getting tourists to BGI the route would never have been announced. This is about a mix of traffic with Business traffic as it’s backbone.


I highly doubt it's a business traffic route for the following reasons:

a) the lack of frequency. 2x a week isn't going to do much for any business traveler.
b) the lack of demand to/from Latin America for Barbados from a business perspective. Barbados is not Trinidad. It does not have anywhere near the same level of business ties to/from Panama and the rest of Latam as its neighbor to the southwest does.

Also, with regards to shopping. Another advantage Miami maintains over Panama for Bajans is for bulk shoppers i.e. those shipping barrels, it's much easier (and less costly) to do that out of Miami than it is out of Panama. It's not just Dolphin and Sawgrass that people go to for shopping. Costco, Sam's Club and BJ's also see their fair share of people.
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