• 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 16
 
mat66
Posts: 292
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:05 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
mat66 wrote:
Do we know the equivalent manufacturer empty weight for the A350-900?


115,700 kg


Thanks.
129,000kg-115,700kg=13,300kg. Is that a realistic difference for a 7m stretch? OEW was supposed to be 17-18t more than A350-900 (unofficially).
Maybe A350-1000 is slightly lighter than anticipated.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:25 pm

mat66 wrote:
OEW was supposed to be 17-18t more than A350-900 (unofficially).


As per ACAP documents, A350-900 OEW is 142t versus 155t for the A350-1000.

http://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corpo ... t-2017.pdf
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ap305
Posts: 1358
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:38 pm

Karel the figure in the acap is not the oew.... that is the maintenance weight which is just a average figure. A359 oew is now 136-137t and I would guess a351 is 149-150t.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:41 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
That must be a mistake, empty weight should be around 155t and certainly not 129t.

ap305 wrote:
Karel I think that is manufacturer empty weight...does not include any furnishings and possibly not the engines.


That is what I am thinking, as well.

A350-900 Manufacturer Weight Empty for the first A350-900 frames was 118,700kg per Gordon McConnell, A350 chief engineer as reported on 21 June 2011 in AW&ST. MSN005 had an MWE of 119,000kg as reported on 14 June 2014 in FlightGlobal in an interview with A350 programme chief Didier Evrard. Evrand noted that was 3,300kg above spec MWE which matches the 115,700kg KarelXWB noted.

So I agree Spec MWE for the A350-1000 at 129,000kg seems reasonable.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:35 pm

Stitch wrote:
So I agree Spec MWE for the A350-1000 at 129,000kg seems reasonable.


similar structure fraction of MTOW
A359: 115 / 280 = 0.411
A3510: 129 / 312 = 0.413
expected future MTOW:
A3510: 129 / 316 = 0.408
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 pm

ap305 wrote:
Karel the figure in the acap is not the oew.... that is the maintenance weight which is just a average figure. A359 oew is now 136-137t and I would guess a351 is 149-150t.


Odd. Airbus' marketing presentations clearly state "OEW 155t". I guess everyone uses a different weight definition.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:14 pm

ap305 wrote:
Karel the figure in the acap is not the oew.... that is the maintenance weight which is just a average figure. A359 oew is now 136-137t and I would guess a351 is 149-150t.

KarelXWB wrote:
Odd. Airbus' marketing presentations clearly state "OEW 155t". I guess everyone uses a different weight definition.


Back when Airbus used to list OEW (Operational Empty Weight) in their ACAPs, they used an identical definition to Boeing in their ACAPs which covered pretty much everything but the payload (passengers, bags and cargo), catering/pantry items and fuel. MEW (Manufacturer Weight Empty) omits all those items covered in the OWE and is pretty much just the weight of the base "green" airframe with no interior fittings beyond the sidewalls and before it receives any fluids or is painted in a customer livery. For example, a 787-8 has an MWE of 114,000kg and an OEW (in a 242-seat two-class OEM configuration) of 120,000kg.

The Airbus Firefighting Guides have "Aircraft Configuration Weights" of 140,000kg for the A350-900 and 160,000kg for the A350-1000 which may be in-line with actual average airline configurations based on data we have, which includes 139,500kg for TAM A350-900 according to the flight-plan for GRU-MXP posted. We also have Cathay Pacific at 135,000kg, an unknown airline's A350-900 of 136,000kg in two classes and 144,000kg for one of Finnair's A350-900 configurations.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:32 am

MSN 183 MH #3 has arrived at the DC.

It's getting busy at the delivery centre.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:38 am

MSN 193 BF #2 has rolled out to the flight line.

Should be painted as French bee instead of French blue.

Image
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:56 am

Initial engine run for MSN 191 (CI#12) this morning.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:08 am

Stitch wrote:
The Airbus Firefighting Guides have "Aircraft Configuration Weights" of 140,000kg for the A350-900 and 160,000kg for the A350-1000 which may be in-line with actual average airline configurations based on data we have, which includes 139,500kg for TAM A350-900 according to the flight-plan for GRU-MXP posted.


A Firefighting guide will show max imaginable weights. ( not min or average.)
The guide determines what you have to plan for and that looks at upper bounds.
Murphy is an optimist
 
patschinger
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:23 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:40 am

Hey all.
-What about the Chinese certification ? There are some Frames stored ? Do everybody know who could be the the buyer for the prototypes MSN 2 and 4. This f´rames should be sold according to https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list
-Maybe MSN 3 will be also sold ?
 
TC957
Posts: 2897
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:17 am

MSN3 is due to be donated to a museum.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:24 am

Regarding the first question: according to http://news.carnoc.com/list/434/434971.html, CAAC certification started in June 2017 and has entered "phase 3" in January 2018. No deadline has been given, but it usually takes some 10-12 months to complete a full review of a new aircraft type.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ap305
Posts: 1358
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2000 4:03 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:36 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 50-445561/

Obe says the winglets have been flight-tested and are expected to deliver “huge benefits”.
Racing, competing, is in my blood. It's part of me, it's part of my life; I've been doing it all my life. And it stands up before anything else- Ayrton Senna
 
Bricktop
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:48 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 193 BF #2 has rolled out to the flight line.

Should be painted as French bee instead of French blue.

Image

Very nice livery.
 
patschinger
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:23 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:02 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Regarding the first question: according to http://news.carnoc.com/list/434/434971.html, CAAC certification started in June 2017 and has entered "phase 3" in January 2018. No deadline has been given, but it usually takes some 10-12 months to complete a full review of a new aircraft type.

Thanks. How many phases includes the CAAC certification in total ?
Any ideas about future of MSN 2 to 4 ?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:44 pm

MSN 180 ET #7 should be flying home today.

Airbus A350 -941 180 ET-AVB Ethiopian Airlines delivery 06feb18 TLS-ADD ex F-WZFX
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:33 pm

WIederling wrote:
A Firefighting guide will show max imaginable weights. ( not min or average.) The guide determines what you have to plan for and that looks at upper bounds.


And yet Finnair's A350-900 reported OEW comes in between 4,000 and 5,000kg higher than the figure given in the Firefighting Guide.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:48 pm

MSN 198 OZ #5 made it to the flight line. Still unpainted though.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
StTim
Posts: 2847
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:16 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 198 OZ #5 made it to the flight line. Still unpainted though.
Will it be painted in TLS or in XFW?
 
Strato2
Posts: 249
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:48 pm

Stitch wrote:
144,000kg for one of Finnair's A350-900 configurations.


Did some digging and the source for this is some a-net member and nothing else or am I wrong?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
144,000kg for one of Finnair's A350-900 configurations.

Did some digging and the source for this is some a-net member and nothing else or am I wrong?


Yes it is an a.net member, but plenty of them work for airlines or MROs or OEMs and have access to this information. And this member has posted other airline operating weights that fit what is considered "the norm" for that model and configuration so I don't see why this would be a deliberate fabrication. And one of AY's configuration has upwards of 20% more overall seats than a number of other two-class A350-900 operators so the weight difference being 7% higher (when factoring in things like catering/pantry and such) might not be so ridiculous.
 
gloom
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:01 pm

Somthing to think on - first three of Finnairs (LWA, LWB, LWC) are Batch 2 aircrafts, and probably overweight. Airbus did quite a lot to reduce weight from Batch 3 onwards (I believe some stated 4-5t gain, but might be wrong with my memory). Heavier equipment, older frame could contribute as well.

Cheers,
Adam
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:57 am

MSN 190 DL #8 has fired up its engines and should depart on its first flight:

https://fr24.com/AIB01GL/105b633a
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:53 pm

Strato2 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
144,000kg for one of Finnair's A350-900 configurations.


Did some digging and the source for this is some a-net member and nothing else or am I wrong?


viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1370539

some cites:
Cathay's first A350 arrived at 137t, later samples are 135t.
LATAM A350s are rated around 139t.
Finnair A350s float around 136t.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:11 pm

Stitch wrote:
WIederling wrote:
A Firefighting guide will show max imaginable weights. ( not min or average.) The guide determines what you have to plan for and that looks at upper bounds.


And yet Finnair's A350-900 reported OEW comes in between 4,000 and 5,000kg higher than the figure given in the Firefighting Guide.


posted numbers for FinnAir A359 were in the 134..6t range afair?
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:56 am

WIederling wrote:
posted numbers for FinnAir A359 were in the 134..6t range afair?


I do not know where KarelXWB's numbers come from.

Finnair does operate two different configurations of the A350-900 - one at 297 seats with a much larger Business Class and one at 336 seats with a much larger Economy Class. So it could be the DOW for one configuration is 135,000kg and the DOW for the other is 144,000kg.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:47 am

Plus, Finnair's first A350 is an overweight "batch 2" aircraft.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6079
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:11 am

Stitch wrote:
WIederling wrote:
posted numbers for FinnAir A359 were in the 134..6t range afair?


I do not know where KarelXWB's numbers come from.

Finnair does operate two different configurations of the A350-900 - one at 297 seats with a much larger Business Class and one at 336 seats with a much larger Economy Class. So it could be the DOW for one configuration is 135,000kg and the DOW for the other is 144,000kg.


You wouldn't perchance have a link to the numbers source?
9t delta would be equivalent to 90 Uber Business seats. @ 100 something kg
Murphy is an optimist
 
itisi
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:37 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:37 am

Any more delivery / production news.... rest of the news is....
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
StTim
Posts: 2847
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:47 am

It looks like MSN191 is being prepped for its RTO.
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 933
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:00 pm

G'day

found this tidbit

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v8/ge/ne ... id=1434602

"The Transport Ministry has instructed Malaysia Airlines Bhd (MAB) to solve the seating and toilet problems in business class in its Airbus A350-900XWB aircraft."

presumably the known Zodiac quality issues. I wonder if that will ever be resolved :crazy:

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:52 pm

MSN 186 SQ #21 is already online with its final registration.

Next we have a second flight for MSN 187 HX #4: https://fr24.com/AIB02AW/105e6f54

Finally MSN 183 MH #3 is airborne on a second CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB04GA/105e5b46
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
StTim
Posts: 2847
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:00 pm

At the same time MSN001 is flying testing some new feature out.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB46WB/105e2f81
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:36 pm

WIederling wrote:
You wouldn't perchance have a link to the numbers source? 9t delta would be equivalent to 90 Uber Business seats. @ 100 something kg


It was posted by chaostheory.


KarelXWB wrote:
Plus, Finnair's first A350 is an overweight "batch 2" aircraft.


Yes if the weight reflected an additional 3000kg of structure the earliest frames had that would account for a third of the delta right there.
 
MileHFL400
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:42 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:40 pm

Any updates on MSN 88?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
StTim
Posts: 2847
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:48 pm

A tweet today says delivery planned for 20th Feb.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:01 am

MSN 88 needs another CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB07NR/106092ab
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
BobMUC
Posts: 984
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:59 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:35 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN 88 needs another CAF: https://fr24.com/AIB07NR/106092ab


Never took off, right?

But MSN191 (future B-18916 CI #12) had it's FF:
https://www.flightradar24.com/AIB01GP/1060e8eb
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:15 pm

Initial engine run for MSN 192 (VN#11) this afternoon.
MSN 186 (SQ#21) to depart shortly on delivery flight #SQ8895.
 
BOAC1966
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:19 am

A358 -1000 due SYD 2200 local 10th ex BKK
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Both MSN 183 MH #3 and MSN 184 LH #8 are online with final registration, making at least 4 deliveries in February.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 10411
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:42 am

MSN 216 (the first A359ULR) is now at Station 40 undergoing final assembly.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:48 am

MSN 182 DL #7 has arrived at the delivery centre.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 2513
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:22 am

MSN 185 (TG#10) at the delivery centre this morning.
MSN 182 (DL#7) preparing for its first CAF #AIB04FW
 
pabloeing
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:24 am

IB#1 is now in station 50
 
BOAC1966
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:25 am

MSN88 -1000 test flight today and XV en route to TYO having hopefully buttered up ANZ!
 
BOAC1966
Posts: 382
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 pm

Second test flight this evening for AIBO9 NR MSN88 ....interesting speed drop after T/O .....checking single engine capability?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26969
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: Airbus A350 Production/Delivery Thread 2018

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:45 pm

Not just a test flight, it was a customer acceptance flight.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 16

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos