Austin Texas Thread - 2018

reggiet · Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:03 am

Midwestindy wrote:
reggiet wrote:
(In late 2017, AUS was in the running with DEN for Amazons new HQ. Supposedly the lack of an expansive & fluid airport structure was a demerit that contributed to knocking AUS out of contention)
***Seattle upgrades to twice daily in March with a commensurate upgauge in aircraft (mentioned on Deltas news webpage). I’m thinking A321 but can be 739 just as well. Currently 738
***RDU upgauges from RJ900 to 717 in Spring
***In a two year span, there’s been a total transition of austin equip from M90s and regionals to nearly all airbus products with the new IFEs, larger bin space and updated lighting (i.e: Atl - Aus is all A321 now)

Not trying to be rude, but is the information you are presenting accurate?

1. AUS is still in the running for Amazon HQ2, in fact out of the 20 they are probably a top 10 contender https://www.amazon.com/b?node=17044620011
2. AUS-SEA is 1x daily and is scheduled to be 1x daily for the rest of the year
3. The upgrade on RDU-AUS was cancelled a while ago, it will still run on a CR9 at least for now
4. AUS-ATL is a mix of A320s and A321s it isn't all A321s, although most of the flights run on the A321s

Always sketchy when the sentence starts out with 'Not trying to be.......'

Regarding AUS-ATL 321s, kind of splitting hairs there a little bit bro. Current daily schedule has 12/14 aircraft being 321s. With 2 being 320s and a variable week or two in February with four 320s. Back to 12/14 321s in March. The gist is the upgrade in the equipment that's used most often. I'm just putting out broad information for the average aviation layman. I'm not plugging in Nav information for an ILS landing with zero visibility.

I'm amused at your statement that SEA is 1x daily for the rest of the year. Locally, we knew late last fall that SEA was going twice daily this spring. It was originally slated for the summer then it got moved up to the Spring period. And the RDU equipment information just the same was recently spoken of but with far less chatter possibly because it's not a hub or sister city so to speak like SEA is. My Delta information has always been from conversations with the local ACS personnel and the AUS Delta Ops folks, both good friends of mine, whom generally know whats coming for their planning, short and long term. But you are living in the Austin area and regularly working at the Austin airport to have a finger on the pulse for your data yes? No biggie. Just kind of a chuckle there.

Regarding Amazon coming here, I'll put my money where my mouth is for them not moving here. I TOTALLY hope they would but I've lived here 21 years and even with all of the recent feverish construction near the airport at the Levander Loop Hwy spaghetti bowl in addition to huge work at the Hwy 71/183 interchange, they're still woefully behind. I'm painfully familiar as a local resident/driver of the lack of fluid infrastructure regarding our highway system and the general stifling congestion on an LA level starting around 2pm weekdays and all hours on special events. Only one interstate going through the city, IH35. ONE. One wreck? Instant parking lot. Also, there's no consistent loop/double loop system like the other 3 texas metropolis have. (Hwy 130 Toll Rd kind of doesn't count. Too far out of city center) Let alone the abject lack of gates at ABIA for the short term future. Especially with a similarly attractive and hot city like DEN that DOES have around 39 gates ready and available, if I'm not mistaken. Or Atlanta, or Nashville, or Dallas, or Boston. I just don't see it.

Nonetheless, as good practice, I'm not one to get into a pissing match on this site since it's always about as fruitful as a prostitute in a convent. But Thanks for the "corrections.'' These are theories and rumors and really nothing more until the Fat Lady Sings. As always time will tell what actually happens.

reggiet · Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:14 am

KD5MDK wrote:
. (In late 2017, AUS was in the running with DEN for Amazons new HQ. Supposedly the lack of an expansive & fluid airport structure was a demerit that contributed to knocking AUS out of contention)

You think it's a foregone conclusion it's DEN now? 20 city list was just released.

How many more gates could BA want? I suppose A380 service could make sense if they get the demand, but they wouldn't go double daily would they?

My BA friend did confirm that the 744 is here solely because the 787s are getting pulled for new overseas routes. Seychelles was one I believe. They'll make good money on the hefty cargo but it'll be pretty hard to fill up 345 seats on the regular even when it's peak summer season. Norwegian is the new game changer here for BA. I believe he told me Norwegian's LGW tix are literally half what BA charges. So it's going to be tough to beat them in that respect. No J class in their 788/789 equipment appears to be working for them.

khowaga · Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:59 pm

reggiet wrote:
khowaga wrote:
JDawgboy512 wrote:
I posted this in a different thread but word is the Austin Chamber of Commerce will have a big Delta announcement on Feb 6th.

Let the speculation begin.

The airport hasn’t put out a press release about the SkyClub, or about the resumption of CVG, so those will probably be folded into a bigger announcement (I mean, the airport press people announce when there are new trash cans in the terminal, so it’s significant that they haven’t done so yet). Since it’s coming from the chamber, I’d guess the long rumored MX facility will be part of it, since that means the city can promote bringing another new employer to town.

Delta has already put up their own promotion at gate 6 for the sky club. It will uniquely be the only sky club in their entire system with a Sky Deck being located at a non hub, non Focus City station.

IMG_0329.JPG

Yes, but the key here is that while Delta has announced it, the city of Austin hasn’t. There’s a port insider on another forum who said that it’s being saved, like CVG, for a bigger announcement. So, it’s not “news” but it’ll be used to boost whatever the chamber is planning on the 6th.

khowaga · Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:25 pm

reggiet wrote:
Regarding Amazon coming here, I'll put my money where my mouth is for them not moving here. I TOTALLY hope they would but I've lived here 21 years and even with all of the recent feverish construction near the airport at the Levander Loop Hwy spaghetti bowl in addition to huge work at the Hwy 71/183 interchange, they're still woefully behind. I'm painfully familiar as a local resident/driver of the lack of fluid infrastructure regarding our highway system and the general stifling congestion on an LA level starting around 2pm weekdays and all hours on special events. Only one interstate going through the city, IH35. ONE. One wreck? Instant parking lot. Also, there's no consistent loop/double loop system like the other 3 texas metropolis have. (Hwy 130 Toll Rd kind of doesn't count. Too far out of city center) Let alone the abject lack of gates at ABIA for the short term future. Especially with a similarly attractive and hot city like DEN that DOES have around 39 gates ready and available, if I'm not mistaken. Or Atlanta, or Nashville, or Dallas, or Boston. I just don't see it.

I know this is so terribly off topic, but I'm inclined to agree with you. The city council and CAMPO need to grow up and realize that Austin isn't the sleepy little town that it was in 1995: it's a big city with big city problems, and it needs big city solutions that are going to hurt while they're being implemented. "We don't want to build more roads because it encourages people to drive." No, not having a decent public transportation system encourages people to drive (like me, I'm only 5 miles from downtown and have no alternative). Our public transit system is almost non-existent (the bus lines are getting better...slowly), and I, personally, would love to know what the hell they were thinking when they thought enough people are commuting across town in summer heat on their bicycles to justify taking away traffic lanes to put in dedicated bike lanes. "It doesn't slow down traffic times" my @ss.

I think the epitome of bad planning can be summed up in the fact that one of the reasons why the connector from 35 south to 45 south (over toward Circle C) was put on hold for so long was that "we don't want MoPac to become the regional alternative to I-35." It's been the regional alternative to I-35 since the 1990s, for heaven's sake! And 130 may not be close to the city, but it's not the deserted stretch of highway it used to be - at rush hour it backs up like everything else.

Anyway, none of this is here or there - this is an aviation forum - but, yeah, I, for one, would be just as happy not to see 50,000 more people relocating here right now while things are still such a mess. We're growing almost too fast as it is...

thomasphoto60 · Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:26 pm

khowaga wrote:
reggiet wrote:
Regarding Amazon coming here, I'll put my money where my mouth is for them not moving here. I TOTALLY hope they would but I've lived here 21 years and even with all of the recent feverish construction near the airport at the Levander Loop Hwy spaghetti bowl in addition to huge work at the Hwy 71/183 interchange, they're still woefully behind. I'm painfully familiar as a local resident/driver of the lack of fluid infrastructure regarding our highway system and the general stifling congestion on an LA level starting around 2pm weekdays and all hours on special events. Only one interstate going through the city, IH35. ONE. One wreck? Instant parking lot. Also, there's no consistent loop/double loop system like the other 3 texas metropolis have. (Hwy 130 Toll Rd kind of doesn't count. Too far out of city center) Let alone the abject lack of gates at ABIA for the short term future. Especially with a similarly attractive and hot city like DEN that DOES have around 39 gates ready and available, if I'm not mistaken. Or Atlanta, or Nashville, or Dallas, or Boston. I just don't see it.

I know this is so terribly off topic, but I'm inclined to agree with you. The city council and CAMPO need to grow up and realize that Austin isn't the sleepy little town that it was in 1995: it's a big city with big city problems, and it needs big city solutions that are going to hurt while they're being implemented. "We don't want to build more roads because it encourages people to drive." No, not having a decent public transportation system encourages people to drive (like me, I'm only 5 miles from downtown and have no alternative). Our public transit system is almost non-existent (the bus lines are getting better...slowly), and I, personally, would love to know what the hell they were thinking when they thought enough people are commuting across town in summer heat on their bicycles to justify taking away traffic lanes to put in dedicated bike lanes. "It doesn't slow down traffic times" my @ss.

I think the epitome of bad planning can be summed up in the fact that one of the reasons why the connector from 35 south to 45 south (over toward Circle C) was put on hold for so long was that "we don't want MoPac to become the regional alternative to I-35." It's been the regional alternative to I-35 since the 1990s, for heaven's sake! And 130 may not be close to the city, but it's not the deserted stretch of highway it used to be - at rush hour it backs up like everything else.

Anyway, none of this is here or there - this is an aviation forum - but, yeah, I, for one, would be just as happy not to see 50,000 more people relocating here right now while things are still such a mess. We're growing almost too fast as it is...

If I were to make a wager, my money would go on Northern Virginia, stones throw from D.C.

digitalman12 · Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:00 pm

my money is on Austin, Raleigh or Atlanta

digitalman12 · Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:35 pm

Now that Delta's C series order is going through, do we think they'll be any C Series routes from AUS (especially if it becomes a focus city)?

masonh2479 · Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:47 pm

digitalman12 wrote:
Now that Delta's C series order is going through, do we think they'll be any C Series routes from AUS (especially if it becomes a focus city)?

I don’t know about in the near future but long term I can’t see why not. IIRC, they will be based in New York first and Delta already flies to JFK on a larger aircraft. Maybe it will show up on the upcoming CVG route if it does well!

ADrum23 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:49 am

So any word on the rumored DL announcement on the 6th? Specifically, what is going to be announced?

masonh2479 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 am

ADrum23 wrote:
So any word on the rumored DL announcement on the 6th? Specifically, what is going to be announced?

No rumors yet. But it is likely that CVG service will be touched upon as well as the Sky Club. Hoping for the AMS flight to come through.

FrmrKSEngr · Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:52 am

Midwestindy wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
I often wonder what is in Austin that traffic is increasing so fast. Are they drawing passengers from San Antonio?

Population growth, tech growth, e.t.c. The city grew +19.93% from 2010-2016....

There is also growth up I-35 to Waco (110 miles to Aus). I have started driving the 100 miles to AUS instead of the 10 miles to Waco. My current trip (AUS-DUB) was also $400 cheaper through AUS than ACT. DFW is my other option (100 miles north), but I hate metroplex traffic, cost of parking and fares are generally higher.

My only gripe with Austin has been the food selection in the terminal, too local. Sometimes you want a Subway or McDonalds so you know what you are getting.

ADrum23 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:27 am

masonh2479 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
So any word on the rumored DL announcement on the 6th? Specifically, what is going to be announced?

No rumors yet. But it is likely that CVG service will be touched upon as well as the Sky Club. Hoping for the AMS flight to come through.

I know it's unlikely, but I hope DL announces AUS will be a new hub, or at the very minimum, a large focus city. Contrary to what some may say, DL needs a bigger presence in Texas, which is the biggest hole in their network.

masonh2479 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:33 am

ADrum23 wrote:
masonh2479 wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
So any word on the rumored DL announcement on the 6th? Specifically, what is going to be announced?

No rumors yet. But it is likely that CVG service will be touched upon as well as the Sky Club. Hoping for the AMS flight to come through.

I know it's unlikely, but I hope DL announces AUS will be a new hub, or at the very minimum, a large focus city. Contrary to what some may say, DL needs a bigger presence in Texas, which is the biggest hole in their network.

I agree that DL needs a bigger presence in Texas. After they abandoned DFW I really feel like AUS is their best shot. A hub announcement is a long shot but I could very well see a focus city announcement. I just hope this announcement, whatever it is, lives up to the hype.

Jshank83 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:35 am

I flew into AUS for the first time last night. I was impressed. One of the better airports I have been to in awhile. I got in late so nothing was open but I look forward to checking it out more on my outbound flight.

masonh2479 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:37 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I flew into AUS for the first time last night. I was impressed. One of the better airports I have been to in awhile. I got in late so nothing was open but I look forward to checking it out more on my outbound flight.

Last I flew through AUS was December 28th after spending Christmas with the family. The airport was a little busy but check in security was a breeze. Being a small airport it’s not to far of a walk to the gate as well. The food options and how late they stay open needs adjustment though.

afcjets · Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:44 am

DL is the only major US airline without a TX hub and ironically the only major US airline with only one hub in the South.

24Whiskey · Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:41 pm

It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

digitalman12 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:03 pm

I guess we'll have to wait and see. Focus city makes a lot of sense for DL here. Austin is a way better choice than SAT. SAT is a large city, but doesn't have the draw of Austin. As we've discussed, DFW/IAH are already taken, Texas is a hole in the network, etc. Makes perfect sense to me. If they announce it'll be a focus city, it could be a big draw for Amazon as well. Note that most of the finalists are hub or focus cities for major airlines (EWR, ATL, RDU, JFK, LAX, BOS, YYZ, DEN, IAD, MIA, ORD, PHL). Only ones that aren't are the likes of Austin and Indianapolis. The Delta hub in Seattle+ a focus city in Austin could work out well.

reggiet · Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:21 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

I concur. I don't see an AUS hub any time in the near future, partly due to current lack of airport space among other things. I do see a Focus City eventually in the likes of an MCO but with far less of an on site regional aircraft presence. This being even more the case since DL just won their Bombardier Tariff court case at the US Trade Commission yesterday. In the future, any smaller DL aircraft in AUS, besides the 717, will likely be the CS series once they are deployed in healthy numbers. Which will be a while.

Side note. It appears that DL has maneuvered itself to attain all 9 of the new gates in the East Terminal expansion. It will be an entire DL wing so to speak. Of course the larger A380 capable gates at the far east end will be shared among the widebody carriers. The Sky Club will be 8,900 sq ft interior with a 5,800 sq ft Sky Deck. An airport lounge with a 14,700 sq ft footprint is a big add to the airport in general, let alone that wing. Delta also may be making an effort to keep 1-2 of the existing gates they currently operate from. Specifically Gate 5 and possibly Gate 6. DL Contractor wiring installation is being done on 6 (Gate 6 was closed at least 18 hours last week) and Audio Visual equipment has been flown in to make these two gates more similar to those in Atlanta regarding the large flat screens listing flight info and non rev priority. Finally regarding the DGS below wing ramp operations. Supposedly when DL moves to the new East Terminal (July 2019 grand opening according to the contractor Hensel Phelps) the ramp flips from DGS to an all Delta Ramp. If that's the case, it becomes an enormous operational question of what will happen with the existing DGS admin support staff including the Station Manager, and the ready reserve workforce of 60 full time firefighters who would need to retain the current work schedule flex to stay employed with DL. The recent Delta Station of The Year award AUS received should help keep larger ramp operational parts in place....in a perfect world. But we all know that in the industry, absolutely nothing is guaranteed nor predictable. We shall see.

Jshank83 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:30 pm

24Whiskey wrote:
It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

20 mil by 2025 is a pretty big stretch in my opinion. At some point growth won't keep at this years pace. If DL moves in and does a focus city that helps things but doubling passengers from 2013 to 2025 seems like a lot.

masonh2479 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:44 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

20 mil by 2025 is a pretty big stretch in my opinion. At some point growth won't keep at this years pace. If DL moves in and does a focus city that helps things but doubling passengers from 2013 to 2025 seems like a lot.

I’ve always wondered when the growth will stop. I sure hope ABIA exceeds 20million, and if the growth rate remains the same the chances of that are near 100%. I have many friends in Texas, while this may not be the norm, that will fly out of AUS instead of DFW or IAH due to the traffic. I can see traffic in AUS growing year after year as people avoid the huge hub airports of DFW and IAH.

ABIA takes passengers from a large chunk of Texas, most notably San Antonio. I have wondered as well what will happen at SAT, I think they will always be Austin’s little brother in terms of air traffic and eventually population.

I remember for the current extension, which will increase the airport capacity to 15 million. Officials said that 15 millions pax wasn’t projected till 2025, but there is a chance that pax surpassed 14million in 2017. ABIA has been growing at an increasingly rapid pace, the only limitations have been the airport never seems to have any capacity, expansions are only proposed when the airport is very close to capacity so the airport is always playing catch up.

Super88 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:57 pm

Southwest served MAF-AUS for years....they dropped the flights to force people to connect in DAL or HOU....there are people who make the long drive to AUS instead of connecting.....if DL were to start a non-stop AUS-MAF, Southwest would be right back with their non-stop flts.....all an airline needs to do is add an early morning dep from MAF and an early evening return for people to do a one day business trip....Southwest keeps changing flight times in and out of MAF which makes it harder for people doing one day business trips to fly Southwest....more people are taking AA and UA nonstop to DFW and IAH even though the airports are not close to downtown but it's worth it to make a day trip instead of an over night.....

Super88 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:04 pm

SAS is adding 2 round trip flights from Oslo to AUS non stop with an A330 for an event happening in AUS this spring....that would be a sight to see, SAS in AUS....

TripleA · Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:25 pm

This expansion is too little, too late IMO. This should have been done several years ago. At the rate that city is growing, by the time it opens it'll be at or over capacity. Doesn't surprise me though, Austin has always been far behind at addressing issues relating to growth, just look at their freeways.

I will say that when the airport first opened, it was actually pretty nice to travel through. I remember years ago there were times where my family would fly in there, and the terminal would be practically empty. I don't fly through there nearly as much anymore but the last couple times I've flown out of there in the past couple years I hated it. It was way overcrowded. And one thing that really annoyed me was how they put that new food kiosk right in the main walkway in the West concourse near gate 20 which made that area even more crowded.

tphuang · Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:53 pm

reggiet wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

I concur. I don't see an AUS hub any time in the near future, partly due to current lack of airport space among other things. I do see a Focus City eventually in the likes of an MCO but with far less of an on site regional aircraft presence. This being even more the case since DL just won their Bombardier Tariff court case at the US Trade Commission yesterday. In the future, any smaller DL aircraft in AUS, besides the 717, will likely be the CS series once they are deployed in healthy numbers. Which will be a while.

Side note. It appears that DL has maneuvered itself to attain all 9 of the new gates in the East Terminal expansion. It will be an entire DL wing so to speak. Of course the larger A380 capable gates at the far east end will be shared among the widebody carriers. The Sky Club will be 8,900 sq ft interior with a 5,800 sq ft Sky Deck. An airport lounge with a 14,700 sq ft footprint is a big add to the airport in general, let alone that wing. Delta also may be making an effort to keep 1-2 of the existing gates they currently operate from. Specifically Gate 5 and possibly Gate 6. DL Contractor wiring installation is being done on 6 (Gate 6 was closed at least 18 hours last week) and Audio Visual equipment has been flown in to make these two gates more similar to those in Atlanta regarding the large flat screens listing flight info and non rev priority. Finally regarding the DGS below wing ramp operations. Supposedly when DL moves to the new East Terminal (July 2019 grand opening according to the contractor Hensel Phelps) the ramp flips from DGS to an all Delta Ramp. If that's the case, it becomes an enormous operational question of what will happen with the existing DGS admin support staff including the Station Manager, and the ready reserve workforce of 60 full time firefighters who would need to retain the current work schedule flex to stay employed with DL. The recent Delta Station of The Year award AUS received should help keep larger ramp operational parts in place....in a perfect world. But we all know that in the industry, absolutely nothing is guaranteed nor predictable. We shall see.

All that gate doesn't matter when the top markets from Austin are mostly cities that are hubs for other carriers.

william · Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:59 pm

TripleA wrote:
This expansion is too little, too late IMO. This should have been done several years ago. At the rate that city is growing, by the time it opens it'll be at or over capacity. Doesn't surprise me though, Austin has always been far behind at addressing issues relating to growth, just look at their freeways.

I will say that when the airport first opened, it was actually pretty nice to travel through. I remember years ago there were times where my family would fly in there, and the terminal would be practically empty. I don't fly through there nearly as much anymore but the last couple times I've flown out of there in the past couple years I hated it. It was way overcrowded. And one thing that really annoyed me was how they put that new food kiosk right in the main walkway in the West concourse near gate 20 which made that area even more crowded.

What? You didn't appreciate the live band playing during the chaos?

Fly out of the South Terminal with plenty of parking in walking distance and you see why Allegiant did not mind moving and Frontier rumored to move there.

william · Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:04 pm

As regards hubbing, considering how long it takes to get anything done in Ausitn (forget new freeways, the rich tree huggers west of Mopac will have none of that), AUS might want to get started on one of those finger concourses in the Master Plan. Its funny, everyone here seems to think SWA is just going to sit back and let Delta upstage the "hometown" carrier. Its one thing to go up against a small regional major, AS, it quite another to go up against SWA in its back yard.

ADrum23 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:46 pm

william wrote:
Its funny, everyone here seems to think SWA is just going to sit back and let Delta upstage the "hometown" carrier. Its one thing to go up against a small regional major, AS, it quite another to go up against SWA in its back yard.

What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

reggiet · Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
reggiet wrote:
24Whiskey wrote:
It’s clear that DL wants to be a big player in AUS. It’s been growing 25% annually for at least a couple years now. AUS will likely reach 20 million pax/yr by 2025 and DL is aiming for a majority of that growth. It looks to be on track to overtake UA within a couple years.

That being said let’s not get ahead of ourselves using the h-word. Building a focus city will be a long term play.

I concur. I don't see an AUS hub any time in the near future, partly due to current lack of airport space among other things. I do see a Focus City eventually in the likes of an MCO but with far less of an on site regional aircraft presence. This being even more the case since DL just won their Bombardier Tariff court case at the US Trade Commission yesterday. In the future, any smaller DL aircraft in AUS, besides the 717, will likely be the CS series once they are deployed in healthy numbers. Which will be a while.

Side note. It appears that DL has maneuvered itself to attain all 9 of the new gates in the East Terminal expansion. It will be an entire DL wing so to speak. Of course the larger A380 capable gates at the far east end will be shared among the widebody carriers. The Sky Club will be 8,900 sq ft interior with a 5,800 sq ft Sky Deck. An airport lounge with a 14,700 sq ft footprint is a big add to the airport in general, let alone that wing. Delta also may be making an effort to keep 1-2 of the existing gates they currently operate from. Specifically Gate 5 and possibly Gate 6. DL Contractor wiring installation is being done on 6 (Gate 6 was closed at least 18 hours last week) and Audio Visual equipment has been flown in to make these two gates more similar to those in Atlanta regarding the large flat screens listing flight info and non rev priority. Finally regarding the DGS below wing ramp operations. Supposedly when DL moves to the new East Terminal (July 2019 grand opening according to the contractor Hensel Phelps) the ramp flips from DGS to an all Delta Ramp. If that's the case, it becomes an enormous operational question of what will happen with the existing DGS admin support staff including the Station Manager, and the ready reserve workforce of 60 full time firefighters who would need to retain the current work schedule flex to stay employed with DL. The recent Delta Station of The Year award AUS received should help keep larger ramp operational parts in place....in a perfect world. But we all know that in the industry, absolutely nothing is guaranteed nor predictable. We shall see.

All that gate doesn't matter when the top markets from Austin are mostly cities that are hubs for other carriers.

That's a somewhat static view of a fairly dynamic DL AUS evolution in the next 18 months, let alone other global carriers that will start TATL ABIA service this March. DL normally doesn't throw lots of money at a station that they don't plan to put maximum effort into, clearly stamping their style and brand into whatever airport section or wing they plan to operate out of. Maximum effort translated: They will fly into their own top market hubs from AUS far more than into hubs for other carriers. They normally don't shoot themselves in the foot in that revenue/market share manner. Top markets are not just limited to AA's DFW, WN's DAL, or UAs IAH. Hence DLs significant efforts to create their own southern US footprint here, possibly in the likes of the old DFW hub, but much less stressful because it's actually outside of AAs fortress hub

Nonetheless, I'm a little fuzzy on your description of top markets but I'll approach this in general terms.
Some top markets from AUS that ARE Delta hubs and are utilized with mainline aircraft: JFK, ATL, LAX, SEA, SLC, DTW, MSP
MEX (Aeromexico purchase & JV started in Dec), PDX, LAS, SJC, MCO, CVG and AMS are arguably also top markets (or would be in short order) that are likely coming into the DL AUS operation, of which AMS is the European superstar that's a large DL hub. CVG also is a DL hub.

DL is very strategic in how they outlay their investments. With the large AUS gate and Sky Club investment, I don't think they are looking to do anything small in the local arena, being that there is no airline truly hubbed at ABIA yet, albeit WN does has the most daily flights percentage wise. But knowing Austin's historic "let's all be nice to each other all the time" ethos, that non hub first come first serve gate availability (which probably helped DL gain their gates) was likely in the city planners initial desire.

FYI Footnote: AA originally was slated to start the first TATL here 3 years ago. But once penny pinching Doug Parker took over post US Airways merger, that overseas route plan was shelved and BA gleefully slid into that TATL slot.

Capn · Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:27 pm

Can anyone post a drawing of the possible future 20+ gate extension or terminal ?
Thanks

william · Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:32 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
william wrote:
Its funny, everyone here seems to think SWA is just going to sit back and let Delta upstage the "hometown" carrier. Its one thing to go up against a small regional major, AS, it quite another to go up against SWA in its back yard.

What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

Oh nothing but just depress yields a bit with a small fare skirmish, and lots of marketing. SWA will be watching what "new" cities DL brings to AUS (which I do not think is much new) But if DL does have 9 gates, thats a possibility of 80 flights a day.

Could explain why DL Connect pulled out of Killeen. With a build up at AUS, they expect CenTex will drive to Austin to catch a flight (majority of CenTex do that already).

william · Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:36 pm

Capn wrote:
Can anyone post a drawing of the possible future 20+ gate extension or terminal ?
Thanks

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part1.pdf

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part2.pdf

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part3.pdf

Scroll down to see the various concepts.

reggiet · Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:00 pm

william wrote:
Capn wrote:
Can anyone post a drawing of the possible future 20+ gate extension or terminal ?
Thanks

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part1.pdf

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part2.pdf

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/defaul ... _Part3.pdf

Scroll down to see the various concepts.

Thanks for those illustrations Will :bigthumbsup:

ADrum23 · Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:01 pm

william wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
william wrote:
Its funny, everyone here seems to think SWA is just going to sit back and let Delta upstage the "hometown" carrier. Its one thing to go up against a small regional major, AS, it quite another to go up against SWA in its back yard.

What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

Oh nothing but just depress yields a bit with a small fare skirmish, and lots of marketing. SWA will be watching what "new" cities DL brings to AUS (which I do not think is much new) But if DL does have 9 gates, thats a possibility of 80 flights a day.

Could explain why DL Connect pulled out of Killeen. With a build up at AUS, they expect CenTex will drive to Austin to catch a flight (majority of CenTex do that already).

Sure, WN may put up a fight, but DL will win out in the end because it is a bigger and global airline.

Capn · Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:14 pm

William,
Thanks for posting that.
I think AUS is in for a lot of growth initially, and down the road.

tphuang · Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:15 pm

reggiet wrote:
tphuang wrote:
reggiet wrote:

I concur. I don't see an AUS hub any time in the near future, partly due to current lack of airport space among other things. I do see a Focus City eventually in the likes of an MCO but with far less of an on site regional aircraft presence. This being even more the case since DL just won their Bombardier Tariff court case at the US Trade Commission yesterday. In the future, any smaller DL aircraft in AUS, besides the 717, will likely be the CS series once they are deployed in healthy numbers. Which will be a while.

Side note. It appears that DL has maneuvered itself to attain all 9 of the new gates in the East Terminal expansion. It will be an entire DL wing so to speak. Of course the larger A380 capable gates at the far east end will be shared among the widebody carriers. The Sky Club will be 8,900 sq ft interior with a 5,800 sq ft Sky Deck. An airport lounge with a 14,700 sq ft footprint is a big add to the airport in general, let alone that wing. Delta also may be making an effort to keep 1-2 of the existing gates they currently operate from. Specifically Gate 5 and possibly Gate 6. DL Contractor wiring installation is being done on 6 (Gate 6 was closed at least 18 hours last week) and Audio Visual equipment has been flown in to make these two gates more similar to those in Atlanta regarding the large flat screens listing flight info and non rev priority. Finally regarding the DGS below wing ramp operations. Supposedly when DL moves to the new East Terminal (July 2019 grand opening according to the contractor Hensel Phelps) the ramp flips from DGS to an all Delta Ramp. If that's the case, it becomes an enormous operational question of what will happen with the existing DGS admin support staff including the Station Manager, and the ready reserve workforce of 60 full time firefighters who would need to retain the current work schedule flex to stay employed with DL. The recent Delta Station of The Year award AUS received should help keep larger ramp operational parts in place....in a perfect world. But we all know that in the industry, absolutely nothing is guaranteed nor predictable. We shall see.

All that gate doesn't matter when the top markets from Austin are mostly cities that are hubs for other carriers.

That's a somewhat static view of a fairly dynamic DL AUS evolution in the next 18 months, let alone other global carriers that will start TATL ABIA service this March. DL normally doesn't throw lots of money at a station that they don't plan to put maximum effort into, clearly stamping their style and brand into whatever airport section or wing they plan to operate out of. Maximum effort translated: They will fly into their own top market hubs from AUS far more than into hubs for other carriers. They normally don't shoot themselves in the foot in that revenue/market share manner. Top markets are not just limited to AA's DFW, WN's DAL, or UAs IAH. Hence DLs significant efforts to create their own southern US footprint here, possibly in the likes of the old DFW hub, but much less stressful because it's actually outside of AAs fortress hub

Nonetheless, I'm a little fuzzy on your description of top markets but I'll approach this in general terms.
Some top markets from AUS that ARE Delta hubs and are utilized with mainline aircraft: JFK, ATL, LAX, SEA, SLC, DTW, MSP
MEX (Aeromexico purchase & JV started in Dec), PDX, LAS, SJC, MCO, CVG and AMS are arguably also top markets (or would be in short order) that are likely coming into the DL AUS operation, of which AMS is the European superstar that's a large DL hub. CVG also is a DL hub.

DL is very strategic in how they outlay their investments. With the large AUS gate and Sky Club investment, I don't think they are looking to do anything small in the local arena, being that there is no airline truly hubbed at ABIA yet, albeit WN does has the most daily flights percentage wise. But knowing Austin's historic "let's all be nice to each other all the time" ethos, that non hub first come first serve gate availability (which probably helped DL gain their gates) was likely in the city planners initial desire.

FYI Footnote: AA originally was slated to start the first TATL here 3 years ago. But once penny pinching Doug Parker took over post US Airways merger, that overseas route plan was shelved and BA gleefully slid into that TATL slot.

Please take a look here and see how many of those hubs are in the top 10 markets for Austin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin–Bergstrom_International_Airport
I count 3 and there really is no chance DL entering any of the other top 10 markets from AUS.

Not only WN, but AA has massive structural advantage over DL in Texas. It's just a fact of level. And with BA entering AUS as part of AA/BA JV, why does it matter AA doesn't fly TATL? LHR is a far larger market than AMS/CDG. AA/BA JV has all the advantages in Austin from a bigger O&D presence to LHR, first mover and larger presence in Texas. DL will be left picking up the scraps of European connection. Remember, it will also have to deal with connection to Europe from DY.

Sure, they might add LAS, but that doesn't move the needle for them in corporate community. WN dominate both end of that route. Same with MCO.

As for PDX, DL actually doesn't have a large presence there. It doesn't even fly to its larger focus cities BOS or RDU or CVG out of PDX.

As Ed Bastian himself said, Mexico is DL's Texas. Those are his words. Not my.

reggiet · Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
reggiet wrote:
tphuang wrote:

All that gate doesn't matter when the top markets from Austin are mostly cities that are hubs for other carriers.

That's a somewhat static view of a fairly dynamic DL AUS evolution in the next 18 months, let alone other global carriers that will start TATL ABIA service this March. DL normally doesn't throw lots of money at a station that they don't plan to put maximum effort into, clearly stamping their style and brand into whatever airport section or wing they plan to operate out of. Maximum effort translated: They will fly into their own top market hubs from AUS far more than into hubs for other carriers. They normally don't shoot themselves in the foot in that revenue/market share manner. Top markets are not just limited to AA's DFW, WN's DAL, or UAs IAH. Hence DLs significant efforts to create their own southern US footprint here, possibly in the likes of the old DFW hub, but much less stressful because it's actually outside of AAs fortress hub

Nonetheless, I'm a little fuzzy on your description of top markets but I'll approach this in general terms.
Some top markets from AUS that ARE Delta hubs and are utilized with mainline aircraft: JFK, ATL, LAX, SEA, SLC, DTW, MSP
MEX (Aeromexico purchase & JV started in Dec), PDX, LAS, SJC, MCO, CVG and AMS are arguably also top markets (or would be in short order) that are likely coming into the DL AUS operation, of which AMS is the European superstar that's a large DL hub. CVG also is a DL hub.

DL is very strategic in how they outlay their investments. With the large AUS gate and Sky Club investment, I don't think they are looking to do anything small in the local arena, being that there is no airline truly hubbed at ABIA yet, albeit WN does has the most daily flights percentage wise. But knowing Austin's historic "let's all be nice to each other all the time" ethos, that non hub first come first serve gate availability (which probably helped DL gain their gates) was likely in the city planners initial desire.

FYI Footnote: AA originally was slated to start the first TATL here 3 years ago. But once penny pinching Doug Parker took over post US Airways merger, that overseas route plan was shelved and BA gleefully slid into that TATL slot.

Please take a look here and see how many of those hubs are in the top 10 markets for Austin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin–Bergstrom_International_Airport
I count 3 and there really is no chance DL entering any of the other top 10 markets from AUS.

Not only WN, but AA has massive structural advantage over DL in Texas. It's just a fact of level. And with BA entering AUS as part of AA/BA JV, why does it matter AA doesn't fly TATL? LHR is a far larger market than AMS/CDG. AA/BA JV has all the advantages in Austin from a bigger O&D presence to LHR, first mover and larger presence in Texas. DL will be left picking up the scraps of European connection. Remember, it will also have to deal with connection to Europe from DY.

Sure, they might add LAS, but that doesn't move the needle for them in corporate community. WN dominate both end of that route. Same with MCO.

As for PDX, DL actually doesn't have a large presence there. It doesn't even fly to its larger focus cities BOS or RDU or CVG out of PDX.

As Ed Bastian himself said, Mexico is DL's Texas. Those are his words. Not my.

Well I just chuckle at your multiple points of enlightenment across the board. Notice I said arguably and then wrote PDX. The AA info was just an information nugget of trivia. It had nothing to do with the premise of the post itself. But you've got this one my friend. Tis not worth me delving into that rabbit hole of what if's with you.
#WhenYouUseWikipediaAsAPointOfReferenceIJustWalkAway

jplatts · Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:44 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Sure, WN may put up a fight, but DL will win out in the end because it is a bigger and global airline.

Good point, and DL also has nonstop service from AUS to its DTW, MSP, JFK, SLC, and SEA hubs and its RDU focus city, but WN does not currently serve these DL hubs and focus cities nonstop from AUS. In addition, DL will be resuming AUS-CVG nonstop service starting on May 1st, but WN does not currently have any plans to serve CVG nonstop from AUS.

jplatts · Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:51 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

I agree with your point, but WN also does have nonstop international flights from AUS to CUN and SJD, and in addition, WN can connect passengers from AUS to AUA, BZE, LIR, MBJ, PVR, SJO, and SJU from AUS through HOU. WN also does plan on starting service to Hawaii either at the end of this year or early next year, and WN will be able to connect passengers to Hawaiian destinations from AUS through California airports that have nonstop service to both AUS and Hawaii.

ADrum23 · Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:26 am

jplatts wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

I agree with your point, but WN also does have nonstop international flights from AUS to CUN and SJD, and in addition, WN can connect passengers from AUS to AUA, BZE, LIR, MBJ, PVR, SJO, and SJU from AUS through HOU. WN also does plan on starting service to Hawaii either at the end of this year or early next year, and WN will be able to connect passengers to Hawaiian destinations from AUS through California airports that have nonstop service to both AUS and Hawaii.

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

3. IF, and I want to emphasize the IF, DL decides to open a full blown hub in AUS (which I personally think they should), it is fairly likely nonstop service to HNL, even if it is only seasonal, will be added.

All in all, DL will win out in any "war" with WN if it opens a focus city/hub in AUS because there are so many more benefits to flying with a global airline than a domestic-oriented airline.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that 3 major Texas cities were on Forbes recent list of the top 10 large US cities with the fastest growing economies. Austin came in at #2, San Antonio at #3 and Dallas-Fort Worth at #5 (my current city of Nashville was #4). So for those who say DL doesn't need a hub/large presence in Texas, I beg to differ.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2018/01/03/the-10-big-u-s-cities-with-the-fastest-growing-and-slowest-growing-economies/#3a022354734a

tphuang · Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:52 am

ADrum23 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
What would WN do about it? They are a domestic airline that is only good to fly if you are traveling within the lower 48 states. DL is a global airline with destinations all over the world. If they establish a focus city/hub at AUS (which they should), most business travelers will choose DL over WN anyday.

I agree with your point, but WN also does have nonstop international flights from AUS to CUN and SJD, and in addition, WN can connect passengers from AUS to AUA, BZE, LIR, MBJ, PVR, SJO, and SJU from AUS through HOU. WN also does plan on starting service to Hawaii either at the end of this year or early next year, and WN will be able to connect passengers to Hawaiian destinations from AUS through California airports that have nonstop service to both AUS and Hawaii.

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

3. IF, and I want to emphasize the IF, DL decides to open a full blown hub in AUS (which I personally think they should), it is fairly likely nonstop service to HNL, even if it is only seasonal, will be added.

All in all, DL will win out in any "war" with WN if it opens a focus city/hub in AUS because there are so many more benefits to flying with a global airline than a domestic-oriented airline.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that 3 major Texas cities were on Forbes recent list of the top 10 large US cities with the fastest growing economies. Austin came in at #2, San Antonio at #3 and Dallas-Fort Worth at #5 (my current city of Nashville was #4). So for those who say DL doesn't need a hub/large presence in Texas, I beg to differ.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2018/01/03/the-10-big-u-s-cities-with-the-fastest-growing-and-slowest-growing-economies/#3a022354734a

Well maybe you will need to wait until delta replaces ed bastion then.

masonh2479 · Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:56 am

tphuang wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
jplatts wrote:

I agree with your point, but WN also does have nonstop international flights from AUS to CUN and SJD, and in addition, WN can connect passengers from AUS to AUA, BZE, LIR, MBJ, PVR, SJO, and SJU from AUS through HOU. WN also does plan on starting service to Hawaii either at the end of this year or early next year, and WN will be able to connect passengers to Hawaiian destinations from AUS through California airports that have nonstop service to both AUS and Hawaii.

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

3. IF, and I want to emphasize the IF, DL decides to open a full blown hub in AUS (which I personally think they should), it is fairly likely nonstop service to HNL, even if it is only seasonal, will be added.

All in all, DL will win out in any "war" with WN if it opens a focus city/hub in AUS because there are so many more benefits to flying with a global airline than a domestic-oriented airline.

I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that 3 major Texas cities were on Forbes recent list of the top 10 large US cities with the fastest growing economies. Austin came in at #2, San Antonio at #3 and Dallas-Fort Worth at #5 (my current city of Nashville was #4). So for those who say DL doesn't need a hub/large presence in Texas, I beg to differ.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2018/01/03/the-10-big-u-s-cities-with-the-fastest-growing-and-slowest-growing-economies/#3a022354734a

Well maybe you will need to wait until delta replaces ed bastion then.

People can change their mind, I’m sure Ed would change his mind if expanding in Texas was worth it, and it seems like he has, with all rumors pointing to an expansion at AUS.

ldvaviation · Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:28 am

tphuang wrote:
All that gate doesn't matter when the top markets from Austin are mostly cities that are hubs for other carriers.

Agreed.

As it stands, DL is only the 4th largest airline at Austin --- 5 points in market share behind AA (2nd largest) and 24 points behind WN (largest). Of course, who could tell that from all the DL hype in this thread.

BreezyIAH · Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:13 am

if DL had a "focus city" at AUS, couldn't SkyWest or someone else start AUS to ELP, AMA, LBB, MAF, LRD, MFE, CRP, HOU, and DAL?
They do serve both HOU and DAL...

khowaga · Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:15 am

Super88 wrote:
SAS is adding 2 round trip flights from Oslo to AUS non stop with an A330 for an event happening in AUS this spring....that would be a sight to see, SAS in AUS....

Stockholm, not Oslo

it’s for South by Southwest, which is a huge music/media festival and there’s usually a pretty decent sized “new Swedish music” contingent!

jplatts · Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:11 am

BreezyIAH wrote:
if DL had a "focus city" at AUS, couldn't SkyWest or someone else start AUS to ELP, AMA, LBB, MAF, LRD, MFE, CRP, HOU, and DAL?
They do serve both HOU and DAL...

DL also operates seasonal HRL-MSP nonstop service, but DL could add HRL-ATL nonstop service, and in addition to adding HRL-ATL nonstop service, DL could add HRL-AUS nonstop service if it had a focus city at AUS.

Even though DL had previously considered serving DTW, LAX, MSP, LGA, and SLC nonstop from DAL, DL had never publicly announced any plans to serve BOS, CVG, JFK, RDU, or SEA nonstop from DAL. DL is unlikely to serve DAL nonstop from AUS, even if it establishes a focus city at AUS. However, I could see DL possibly bringing back nonstop service from AUS to DFW if it establishes a focus city at AUS.

DL used to serve CVG and DFW nonstop from HOU in the past, but DL discontinued HOU-CVG nonstop service in 2004 and DL discontinued HOU-DFW nonstop service with the DL DFW dehubbing in 2005

KD5MDK · Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:21 am

reggiet wrote:
KD5MDK wrote:
. (In late 2017, AUS was in the running with DEN for Amazons new HQ. Supposedly the lack of an expansive & fluid airport structure was a demerit that contributed to knocking AUS out of contention)

You think it's a foregone conclusion it's DEN now? 20 city list was just released.

How many more gates could BA want? I suppose A380 service could make sense if they get the demand, but they wouldn't go double daily would they?

My BA friend did confirm that the 744 is here solely because the 787s are getting pulled for new overseas routes. Seychelles was one I believe. They'll make good money on the hefty cargo but it'll be pretty hard to fill up 345 seats on the regular even when it's peak summer season. Norwegian is the new game changer here for BA. I believe he told me Norwegian's LGW tix are literally half what BA charges. So it's going to be tough to beat them in that respect. No J class in their 788/789 equipment appears to be working for them.

Ok, so BA will still only need one gate until beyond the foreseeable future. I was confused by your previous statement.

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

It really depends on the business what kind of connectivity they desire. If you can easily get to DFW, ORD, JFK, EWR, PHL, IAD, ATL, CLT, MIA you have a whole lot of 1 stop connections to Europe, Africa and South America destinations. It is pretty easy to get to those places. Now, it is harder to get to more minor destinations that only have in-continent service, but flights to LHR, FRA and LGW cover a lot of that.
Same going west, if you can get to LAX or SFO, most of the major destinations in Asia are only one stop.

That said, I'll bet most people in Austin only really want to go to the US, Canada and Mexico. That's definitely not me, but it's probably most people. So for them, Southwest absolutely meets their needs, and has a lot of things going for it they prefer. If those passengers really wanted to be on a Global Carrier they'd already be loyal to AA or UA, but they're on WN right now.

JDawgboy512 · Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:29 am

I'm curious as to why tphuang is so adamant about Delta not planning anything significant at AUS?

Lets look at the facts as they stand. We know that Delta has spent a good amount of money for a very nice Skylounge and skydeck. Why would they do this if they were not planning to expand routes or increase the amount of Delta passengers into ABIA? Simply for the heck of it? Not trying to be snarky so forgive me if it comes off that way but it's a valid question.

Now if they are indeed taking all the gates in the east wing (save the shared international gates), that would be a significant increase from their current gate count? So what are they going to do just add flights to the same cities that Delta currently flies out of Austin? If your going to Seattle you have 3 gates specifically dedicated to flying to Seattle.... Awesome huh. (sarcasm alert)

My point to tphuang is that Delta obviously is planning expanding in a considerable way. How much? Well we will simply have to wait and see but the idea that Delta isn't planning anything for Austin goes against the facts that we already know of. We are putting together bits and pieces of hearsay to try to get an idea of what could ultimately happen and herein lies the debate.

In terms of the Chamber of Commerce meeting on Feb 6th, that much is confirmed. Just look on their website. We will know one way or the other if this big delta announcement is significant or if it's merely hype for things that we already know about.

Side note: SXSW is the largest music, film, tech/multimedia and all things pop culture conference and festival in the world. That is why your seeing dedicated international directs added during March.

reggiet · Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:33 am

KD5MDK wrote:
reggiet wrote:
KD5MDK wrote:
You think it's a foregone conclusion it's DEN now? 20 city list was just released.

How many more gates could BA want? I suppose A380 service could make sense if they get the demand, but they wouldn't go double daily would they?

My BA friend did confirm that the 744 is here solely because the 787s are getting pulled for new overseas routes. Seychelles was one I believe. They'll make good money on the hefty cargo but it'll be pretty hard to fill up 345 seats on the regular even when it's peak summer season. Norwegian is the new game changer here for BA. I believe he told me Norwegian's LGW tix are literally half what BA charges. So it's going to be tough to beat them in that respect. No J class in their 788/789 equipment appears to be working for them.

Ok, so BA will still only need one gate until beyond the foreseeable future. I was confused by your previous statement.

Regarding BA, correct

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

It really depends on the business what kind of connectivity they desire. If you can easily get to DFW, ORD, JFK, EWR, PHL, IAD, ATL, CLT, MIA you have a whole lot of 1 stop connections to Europe, Africa and South America destinations. It is pretty easy to get to those places. Now, it is harder to get to more minor destinations that only have in-continent service, but flights to LHR, FRA and LGW cover a lot of that.
Same going west, if you can get to LAX or SFO, most of the major destinations in Asia are only one stop.

That said, I'll bet most people in Austin only really want to go to the US, Canada and Mexico. That's definitely not me, but it's probably most people. So for them, Southwest absolutely meets their needs, and has a lot of things going for it they prefer. If those passengers really wanted to be on a Global Carrier they'd already be loyal to AA or UA, but they're on WN right now.

JDawgboy512 · Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:35 am

KD5MDK wrote:
reggiet wrote:
KD5MDK wrote:
You think it's a foregone conclusion it's DEN now? 20 city list was just released.

How many more gates could BA want? I suppose A380 service could make sense if they get the demand, but they wouldn't go double daily would they?

My BA friend did confirm that the 744 is here solely because the 787s are getting pulled for new overseas routes. Seychelles was one I believe. They'll make good money on the hefty cargo but it'll be pretty hard to fill up 345 seats on the regular even when it's peak summer season. Norwegian is the new game changer here for BA. I believe he told me Norwegian's LGW tix are literally half what BA charges. So it's going to be tough to beat them in that respect. No J class in their 788/789 equipment appears to be working for them.

Ok, so BA will still only need one gate until beyond the foreseeable future. I was confused by your previous statement.

1. Not many business travelers will be heading to those leisure oriented destinations, which is the only international service WN currently has.

2. As the AUS area grows, businesses will want more overseas flights, both TATL and TPAC. WN will not be able to offer either because they don't have the aircraft to do it and they refuse to codeshare with international airlines.

It really depends on the business what kind of connectivity they desire. If you can easily get to DFW, ORD, JFK, EWR, PHL, IAD, ATL, CLT, MIA you have a whole lot of 1 stop connections to Europe, Africa and South America destinations. It is pretty easy to get to those places. Now, it is harder to get to more minor destinations that only have in-continent service, but flights to LHR, FRA and LGW cover a lot of that.
Same going west, if you can get to LAX or SFO, most of the major destinations in Asia are only one stop.

That said, I'll bet most people in Austin only really want to go to the US, Canada and Mexico. That's definitely not me, but it's probably most people. So for them, Southwest absolutely meets their needs, and has a lot of things going for it they prefer. If those passengers really wanted to be on a Global Carrier they'd already be loyal to AA or UA, but they're on WN right now.

Austin is rapidly becoming much more of an international city than simply US, Canada and Mexico. Moreover Austin travellers prefer flying direct as opposed to having to transfer which is why we are seeing more and more direct flights added.

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