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Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:41 am

I didn't think what she said was a big deal. Lots of other political leaders sent out tweets also. Everyone knows the chance of DL moving much is slim. As others said, I think it was just a way to say they are open for business and aren't going to threaten companies over silly disagreements. I was just impressed she actually was aware of the situation to tweet about it.

TVNWZ wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Let me ask you this, do you guys want STL to remain in its current condition? Or would you rather STL design and build a new, consolidated terminal with modern amenities to give arriving passengers a better impression of STL?


Everyone wants new, shiny things, but STL can not afford it. As for D, it really is not in that bad shape overall, I am told. Gates can be activated easily and that is why WN is creeping down the concourse. Now, the purple carpeting is out of date and appearance is ugly, but the underlying facilities work fine.


I have been down at the new gates a couple times and as you mentioned they are fine. They redid the entire thing with tile and updated it so it looks good. Pretty much the entire airport has been renovated in the last 6 years or so now. They are doing work in the FIS area now and adding more security lines in T2. It might not be the ideal layout but it is good enough not to hinder any growth.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:43 pm

January numbers are out. Actually better than I thought they would be.

Passengers up 4.4%
Departures up 7%

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:47 am

STL is building a new fuel storage facility.

Interesting line.

“STL Fuel Company LLC is excited to partner with St. Louis Lambert International Airport to modernize its jet fuel system” said Jim Stevenson, Southwest Airlines Fuel Category Manager and Chairman of STL Fuel Company LLC.

So a guy who is a Southwest official is also chairman of this STL Fuel Company LLC? Maybe that isn't all the uncommon though, just found it interesting. Not sure if it means anything or not. I would doubt Southwest would have a stake in the LLC?


http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/ ... -524805477
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:51 am

Jshank83 wrote:
STL is building a new fuel storage facility.

Interesting line.

“STL Fuel Company LLC is excited to partner with St. Louis Lambert International Airport to modernize its jet fuel system” said Jim Stevenson, Southwest Airlines Fuel Category Manager and Chairman of STL Fuel Company LLC.

So a guy who is a Southwest official is also chairman of this STL Fuel Company LLC? Maybe that isn't all the uncommon though, just found it interesting. Not sure if it means anything or not. I would doubt Southwest would have a stake in the LLC?


http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/ ... -524805477

Well if nothing, it proves that STL is a hub regardless of whether they say so or not since they are investing into other aspects of the airport
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:36 pm

Looking at the last OAG thread, AS is dropping STL-PDX starting in June.
AS PDX-STL MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

I thought this was doing well for them. Maybe I was wrong. WN will not complain! Any insight on why AS dropped?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:30 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Looking at the last OAG thread, AS is dropping STL-PDX starting in June.
AS PDX-STL MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

I thought this was doing well for them. Maybe I was wrong. WN will not complain! Any insight on why AS dropped?


It has to be fleet/workforce related. I know they are having staffing issues. My guess is they want to run the plane on 2 shorters routes than one long route to STL. LFs have been good mid 80s to 90 (not that LF is the end all be all, but usually above 80 makes routes stick it seems like). It doesn't make sense to bring it back for 2 months then cut it before the busy summer months unless something else is going on. Like you said WN will be happy. WN had loads in the mid 90s for most of the summer and beyond on the route. I doubt they would add a second now that AS dropped it but I think they could make it work if they wanted.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
STL is building a new fuel storage facility.

Interesting line.

“STL Fuel Company LLC is excited to partner with St. Louis Lambert International Airport to modernize its jet fuel system” said Jim Stevenson, Southwest Airlines Fuel Category Manager and Chairman of STL Fuel Company LLC.

So a guy who is a Southwest official is also chairman of this STL Fuel Company LLC? Maybe that isn't all the uncommon though, just found it interesting. Not sure if it means anything or not. I would doubt Southwest would have a stake in the LLC?


http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/ ... -524805477


I believe STL Fuel Company LLC is a cooperative among the airlines at Lambert. They all own the distribution system IIRC.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:06 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
STL is building a new fuel storage facility.

Interesting line.

“STL Fuel Company LLC is excited to partner with St. Louis Lambert International Airport to modernize its jet fuel system” said Jim Stevenson, Southwest Airlines Fuel Category Manager and Chairman of STL Fuel Company LLC.

So a guy who is a Southwest official is also chairman of this STL Fuel Company LLC? Maybe that isn't all the uncommon though, just found it interesting. Not sure if it means anything or not. I would doubt Southwest would have a stake in the LLC?


http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/ ... -524805477


I believe STL Fuel Company LLC is a cooperative among the airlines at Lambert. They all own the distribution system IIRC.


Learned something new today!.

“This major capital project being undertaken by STL Fuel Co. LLC will allow us to build a replacement fuel storage facility that will be cleaner for the environment, safer for the operators, more cost-efficient for all users, and will result in state-of-the-art, robust infrastructure that will reliably take us into the future," said Jim Stevenson, Southwest Airlines fuel category manager and chairman of STL Fuel Co."

Source - https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2018/03/02/lambert-to-get-new-50-million-fuel-facility.html
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:29 am

What would you guys say the next airline will be that comes to St. Louis. Any ideas or rumors? If so, when could that happen?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:03 am

gerstetm wrote:
What would you guys say the next airline will be that comes to St. Louis. Any ideas or rumors? If so, when could that happen?


I'm guessing BA or JetBlue, but put on the spot I say BA. I don't think Spirit has any routes to start that make sense. They are all pretty saturated with WN, F9 and G4.
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:18 am

Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
What would you guys say the next airline will be that comes to St. Louis. Any ideas or rumors? If so, when could that happen?


I'm guessing BA or JetBlue, but put on the spot I say BA. I don't think Spirit has any routes to start that make sense. They are all pretty saturated with WN, F9 and G4.


Yeah, i'm curious to see what happens and when. Hoping sometime soon..
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:50 pm

BLV now has a master plan website.

https://www.blvmasterplan.com

Total passengers last year. 224,000 (42% increase)

Not much else on it yet.
 
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787fan8
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:13 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
What would you guys say the next airline will be that comes to St. Louis. Any ideas or rumors? If so, when could that happen?


I'm guessing BA or JetBlue, but put on the spot I say BA. I don't think Spirit has any routes to start that make sense. They are all pretty saturated with WN, F9 and G4.

I second that

It should be obvious now that STL will be BA's next US medium hub destination. If BA announces a different US city this year, I'll be shocked.

I could see them announcing LHR-STL this fall, and then launching the route in early 2019.
Atlanta is an incredibly cool city - Andrew Lincoln

Future Auburn graduate
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:20 pm

I'm am really hoping so...
 
LambertMan
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:04 pm

787fan8 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
gerstetm wrote:
What would you guys say the next airline will be that comes to St. Louis. Any ideas or rumors? If so, when could that happen?


I'm guessing BA or JetBlue, but put on the spot I say BA. I don't think Spirit has any routes to start that make sense. They are all pretty saturated with WN, F9 and G4.

I second that

It should be obvious now that STL will be BA's next US medium hub destination. If BA announces a different US city this year, I'll be shocked.

I could see them announcing LHR-STL this fall, and then launching the route in early 2019.

I doubt it. Not St. Louis' speed - too ambitious.

Norwegian is more fitting. Jef Blue at some point seems like a logical add as they continue to grow.
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:11 pm

I don't really think it matters on the speed of the airport, I mean we have been growing a lot these past few years. Smaller airports that have fewer passengers and everything already have a BA flight. So I think it is definitely an option here soon. Let's hope!
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:36 pm

So a question. IF BA decides to tap STL on the shoulder, I assume LHR with a 787 variant. My question is what gates would they use? E33, 31, 29? I have not been in the old C concourse in years. I know that TW had the ability to use those gates for arrivals, but unsure about what their status is now?
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:48 pm

Hi all - quick question. Does Concourse A have a TSA Pre-Check lane? Just curious, will be in town soon and trying to decide how close to departure I can arrive. Thanks.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
Hi all - quick question. Does Concourse A have a TSA Pre-Check lane? Just curious, will be in town soon and trying to decide how close to departure I can arrive. Thanks.


Yes, All security checkpoints have tsa pre. I usually get there an hour early if not checking bags (but I also usually fly out of T2 not A.)
Last edited by Jshank83 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:23 pm

TWA302 wrote:
So a question. IF BA decides to tap STL on the shoulder, I assume LHR with a 787 variant. My question is what gates would they use? E33, 31, 29? I have not been in the old C concourse in years. I know that TW had the ability to use those gates for arrivals, but unsure about what their status is now?


I think (not 100% sure) E33 is able to handle a 787. So I am guessing it would offload there then get towed to C28 for boarding. I am pretty sure C28 can handle up to 747. I think there was a charter loaded there earlier in the year that was a 747.
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:24 pm

Even if they don't currently have a gate large enough for a 787, they would extend one to accommodate one.
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:25 pm

Even if they don't currently have a gate large enough for a 787, they would extend one to accommodate one.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:39 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
TWA302 wrote:
So a question. IF BA decides to tap STL on the shoulder, I assume LHR with a 787 variant. My question is what gates would they use? E33, 31, 29? I have not been in the old C concourse in years. I know that TW had the ability to use those gates for arrivals, but unsure about what their status is now?


I think (not 100% sure) E33 is able to handle a 787. So I am guessing it would offload there then get towed to C28 for boarding. I am pretty sure C28 can handle up to 747. I think there was a charter loaded there earlier in the year that was a 747.


Yup! the VS 747 Charter. Looks like they were using the C28! I was thinking the same about E33.
https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-news/2017/pretty-woman-stl-photo-of-the-week

There was also that Condor divert, but they did remote stand over on the other side of the airport.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:04 am

Had a chance to go through the WN schedule update

Changes from the previous update (new total)

BOS +1 Daily (4)
MCO +1 Saturday (4)
PHL +1 Sun (3)
OKC +1 Sun (3)
CMH +1 Sun (3)
SFO -1 Sun (1)
HOU -1 Sun (3)

115 total Daily M-F

Changes from last October

Mon-Fri
+1
SJC
SMF
BDL
PHL
MKE
BOS
DCA
MCO
MSY
SAN

Saturday Only Flights
+1
CUN
ECP

+10 Mon-Fri
+9 Saturday
+16 Sunday

Updated frequency spreadsheet. I have been keeping track long enough now to compare to last years (any that say incomplete are only updated for WN.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:39 am

LambertMan wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

I'm guessing BA or JetBlue, but put on the spot I say BA. I don't think Spirit has any routes to start that make sense. They are all pretty saturated with WN, F9 and G4.

I second that

It should be obvious now that STL will be BA's next US medium hub destination. If BA announces a different US city this year, I'll be shocked.

I could see them announcing LHR-STL this fall, and then launching the route in early 2019.

I doubt it. Not St. Louis' speed - too ambitious.

Norwegian is more fitting. Jef Blue at some point seems like a logical add as they continue to grow.

Honestly I would be impressed if Norwegian saw value in STL. As always, I think that Condor will be the perfect fit - a blend between full service and low cost although LH and BA probably could work here too
 
gerstetm
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:38 am

I really cannot see LH here, although definitely BA and Condor.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:03 pm

Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:26 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.


Ugh, what time? I have to pick someone up in the afternoon, I hope he’s not delayed because of that dickhead.
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:59 pm

stl07 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
I second that

It should be obvious now that STL will be BA's next US medium hub destination. If BA announces a different US city this year, I'll be shocked.

I could see them announcing LHR-STL this fall, and then launching the route in early 2019.

I doubt it. Not St. Louis' speed - too ambitious.

Norwegian is more fitting. Jef Blue at some point seems like a logical add as they continue to grow.

Honestly I would be impressed if Norwegian saw value in STL. As always, I think that Condor will be the perfect fit - a blend between full service and low cost although LH and BA probably could work here too


Condor is primarily a leisure airline, and STL isn't a leisure destination.

I would not be shocked to see Norwegian since they seem hell bent on operating to every major city in the US. BA, is a question of when, not if. It will come.
 
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SweetAction
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:53 am

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.


Ugh, what time? I have to pick someone up in the afternoon, I hope he’s not delayed because of that dickhead.


You stay classy Saint Louis.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:28 am

777PHX wrote:
stl07 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
I doubt it. Not St. Louis' speed - too ambitious.

Norwegian is more fitting. Jef Blue at some point seems like a logical add as they continue to grow.

Honestly I would be impressed if Norwegian saw value in STL. As always, I think that Condor will be the perfect fit - a blend between full service and low cost although LH and BA probably could work here too


Condor is primarily a leisure airline, and STL isn't a leisure destination.

I would not be shocked to see Norwegian since they seem hell bent on operating to every major city in the US. BA, is a question of when, not if. It will come.


Condor has service to PIT, I think STL would fall in the same category as them. Not saying it is a lock by any means but I could see it happening. I don't think Norwegian will come anytime soon since their primary destination seems to be London and STL is waiting on BA for that. I guess they could start service to Paris or somewhere else but that doesn't seem likely in my opinion.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:07 am

STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.


Ugh, what time? I have to pick someone up in the afternoon, I hope he’s not delayed because of that dickhead.

I was actually surprised he picked Boeing and not some other company considering the actions of his administration have caused some countries to "rethink" their defense contracts, and Boeing defense is HQed here, not passenger.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:54 am

stl07 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.


I was actually surprised he picked Boeing and not some other company considering the actions of his administration have caused some countries to "rethink" their defense contracts, and Boeing defense is HQed here, not passenger.


Not to go too far off aviation but I am guessing some reasons are:
Manufacturing jobs (A steel mill and Aluminum mill are reopening in the area)
Trying to help unseat McCaskill
Defense/Military jobs are high on his agenda.
The new budget has orders for new (I think 20 something) Super Hornets that are built at the facility he is visiting.

But the first 3 are more Missouri centric than Boeing specifically. Boeing is a quick in and out though. Doesn't really have to leave the airport.
 
STLflyer
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:04 am

SweetAction wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.


Ugh, what time? I have to pick someone up in the afternoon, I hope he’s not delayed because of that dickhead.


You stay classy Saint Louis.


I’m sorry, I’ll try to class up the joint by having an affair with a porn star and bribing her to keep quiet ;)
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:55 am

Full April frequency spreadsheet for those of you that are interested.

Not much of note. A few less flights overall vs March, but bigger planes on routes make up for it.
AA is down to only three E145s now a day (all to DCA) which is good to see.
AA to DFW goes all mainline.
San Jose and Sacramento start on Southwest.
UA still all RJs this month. A couple less RJ200s and E145s at least.

Might add total seats to this in the future, if I have some time to kill. For now sticking with plane type.

I probably won't do one for May since Southwest's April extension covered May also and wont be much different. Depends how much of a difference the other airlines have in May.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:53 pm

I was listening to ATC during the time trump was going to be coming in. Shortly after they allowed landings again a pilot comes on and says something like

We have a situation in the back of the plane but we just want to get on the ground. Law Enforcement should be meeting us at the gate.

Curious to hear what happened there.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I was listening to ATC during the time trump was going to be coming in. Shortly after they allowed landings again a pilot comes on and says something like

We have a situation in the back of the plane but we just want to get on the ground. Law Enforcement should be meeting us at the gate.

Curious to hear what happened there.


on AF1 or another flight?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:41 pm

TWA302 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
I was listening to ATC during the time trump was going to be coming in. Shortly after they allowed landings again a pilot comes on and says something like

We have a situation in the back of the plane but we just want to get on the ground. Law Enforcement should be meeting us at the gate.

Curious to hear what happened there.


on AF1 or another flight?


Another one. Not sure not the airline. It was one that either was circling and waiting to land until they started clearing plans again or one that just was timed right to arrive about that time. It was probably 2 or 3 minutes after they started clearing planes to land again.
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:20 am

To get back to the international arrivals gate discussion for a sec,what gate did that charter use? Did they come back Virgin or by some other means. If they needed a 747 outbound I'd be hard pressed to guess what else they could have possibly used coming back, unless the party split up and some of them returned separately. Granting that E29, 31, and 33 can all be used for international arrivals I'd be more inclined to think they'd use E-29, since that's an ATS gate, right? Did WN give up the lease on 33 in a gate swap when they moved into 34-40? I know they still use 33, at least on a per turn basis, but I do remember hearing about a gate swap.

As to size, nothing over there looks to be lined for anything that big, but I can't imagine it'd be a gruesome deal to restripe and maybe buy another jetway if the ones currently there aren't appropriate. If you dig around you can see footage of 747s and L-1011s sitting around there. You can one sitting about where E-24 is now if you dial Google Earth back to 1996. This was before the new building, and it looks like that customs area was configured differently then, but the spacing on the apron doesn't look to have changed all that much, so I have to believe it's at least possible. Maybe not as easy as I'm imagining, but possible. I suppose if all else fails there's always air stairs, though I doubt FIS would like that.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:41 am

They didn't come back on a 747. I think it was a 777. I have no clue where they offloaded. WOW is going to use E29. I would doubt it is exclusive to them but their branding will be on it. I haven't heard If E33 is per turn now. I am guessing there is just a trigger in the lease that says the airport has to right to use it for international flights on other airlines if needed. Right now it obviously doesn't matter much. I would guess it is still leased normally for now.
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:54 am

WOW will be departing E29 as well? Hmm! I'm a little surprised at that, but I suppose it saves towing aircraft back and forth. And their market is more WN than AA. (Slightly. Maybe more Allegiant, really, but I don't believe BLV has customs.)

E31 is also ATS, so that would work just as well. Or at least it was. The gate lease list I'm seeing is out of date, since it's still listing everything past 31 out to 40 as vacant. Which clearly it ain't. (Nor has been in months.) I do believe the jetways even have little hearts on them now and the hold areas those special WN poles.

Anyway, if Speedbird wants to roost here space will be found. And if not . . .

So it goes.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:02 pm

symphonicpoet wrote:
WOW will be departing E29 as well? Hmm! I'm a little surprised at that, but I suppose it saves towing aircraft back and forth. And their market is more WN than AA. (Slightly. Maybe more Allegiant, really, but I don't believe BLV has customs.)

E31 is also ATS, so that would work just as well. Or at least it was. The gate lease list I'm seeing is out of date, since it's still listing everything past 31 out to 40 as vacant. Which clearly it ain't. (Nor has been in months.) I do believe the jetways even have little hearts on them now and the hold areas those special WN poles.

Anyway, if Speedbird wants to roost here space will be found. And if not . . .

So it goes.


Yea. WOW is going to be loading and unloading at E29. They will also have desk space in T2, obviously. I'm guessing the charters will still use E29 during the day to offload before WOW's plane arrives. E29 does have WN loading poles but they are crappy temporary ones. I don't think they use it much anymore now that they have E34-38.

E31 (like you mentioned) and E33 both can go into FIS along with E29. E31 shares a hallway with E29. E33 has its own stairs. I was waiting on my flight to PHX (E33) this past weekend and was there when the WN flight from Cancun got in (E31). Made me jealous to see all the relaxed people coming back from vacation. Haha.

I came in on one of the last flights of the night last night. I think only 2 were after me. It was cool to see all the gates full (save the 2 I'm guessing this 2 after me were using and E29). There were also 4 or 5 more WN planes parked further down D/E at spots without jetways. Not sure if that is normal or due to the storms our east.

This gate diagram I think is a littler newer than the one you were looking at but is still about a year out of date. Doesn't have AC's new gate updated either.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... m_2017.pdf
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:06 am

^I think I went back and looked at that one shortly after I posted. But it still shows a lot of vacant in E and I don't think there's anything vacant there at all right now. I arrived on one of the gates labeled "vacant." I suppose it's possible Southwest is only using them per turn, but . . . man they seemed official. Still, it's clearly getting to be a crowded spot. And WOW will only add to that. :)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:43 pm

symphonicpoet wrote:
^I think I went back and looked at that one shortly after I posted. But it still shows a lot of vacant in E and I don't think there's anything vacant there at all right now. I arrived on one of the gates labeled "vacant." I suppose it's possible Southwest is only using them per turn, but . . . man they seemed official. Still, it's clearly getting to be a crowded spot. And WOW will only add to that. :)


Yea it just needs updated. They haven't updated it since before they took control of those. If you go to the airlines page on flystl it will list the updated gates for everyone.

In other news I found this today. It talks about how MEM was working on getting WN to STL but they WN decided they were too close. The 300 flights a day isn't right but you get the idea. I thought MEM might be on the short list for another spoke from STL. I would have included IND in that also but after seeing this it is probably doubtful. I wish they would at least give it a try, oh well.

"Gentry said airlines are moving away from competing with interstates. “We had a good dialog with Southwest. We saw them pushing 300 flights a day out of St. Louis. It was progressing well, but once they looked at the drive, they were like, ‘Nope. We can’t compete with that.’”

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 450934002/
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:00 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
symphonicpoet wrote:
^I think I went back and looked at that one shortly after I posted. But it still shows a lot of vacant in E and I don't think there's anything vacant there at all right now. I arrived on one of the gates labeled "vacant." I suppose it's possible Southwest is only using them per turn, but . . . man they seemed official. Still, it's clearly getting to be a crowded spot. And WOW will only add to that. :)


Yea it just needs updated. They haven't updated it since before they took control of those. If you go to the airlines page on flystl it will list the updated gates for everyone.

In other news I found this today. It talks about how MEM was working on getting WN to STL but they WN decided they were too close. The 300 flights a day isn't right but you get the idea. I thought MEM might be on the short list for another spoke from STL. I would have included IND in that also but after seeing this it is probably doubtful. I wish they would at least give it a try, oh well.

"Gentry said airlines are moving away from competing with interstates. “We had a good dialog with Southwest. We saw them pushing 300 flights a day out of St. Louis. It was progressing well, but once they looked at the drive, they were like, ‘Nope. We can’t compete with that.’”

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 450934002/


WN already has nonstop service to MCI and MDW from STL, and both MCI and MDW are closer to STL than MEM is. WN also has nonstop service from STL to DSM and BNA, both of which are slightly further from STL than MEM is.

MEM is far enough from STL for WN to possibly add nonstop service to MEM since WN's STL-MDW, STL-DSM, and STL-BNA nonstop routes are roughly the same distance as that of STL-MEM. In addition, WN's MDW-CVG, LAS-PHX, and LAS-SAN nonstop routes are approximately the same distance as STL-MEM.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:06 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
symphonicpoet wrote:
^I think I went back and looked at that one shortly after I posted. But it still shows a lot of vacant in E and I don't think there's anything vacant there at all right now. I arrived on one of the gates labeled "vacant." I suppose it's possible Southwest is only using them per turn, but . . . man they seemed official. Still, it's clearly getting to be a crowded spot. And WOW will only add to that. :)


Yea it just needs updated. They haven't updated it since before they took control of those. If you go to the airlines page on flystl it will list the updated gates for everyone.

In other news I found this today. It talks about how MEM was working on getting WN to STL but they WN decided they were too close. The 300 flights a day isn't right but you get the idea. I thought MEM might be on the short list for another spoke from STL. I would have included IND in that also but after seeing this it is probably doubtful. I wish they would at least give it a try, oh well.

"Gentry said airlines are moving away from competing with interstates. “We had a good dialog with Southwest. We saw them pushing 300 flights a day out of St. Louis. It was progressing well, but once they looked at the drive, they were like, ‘Nope. We can’t compete with that.’”

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/ ... 450934002/


WN already has nonstop service to MCI and MDW from STL, and both MCI and MDW are closer to STL than MEM is. WN also has nonstop service from STL to DSM and BNA, both of which are slightly further from STL than MEM is.

MEM is far enough from STL for WN to possibly add nonstop service to MEM since WN's STL-MDW, STL-DSM, and STL-BNA nonstop routes are roughly the same distance as that of STL-MEM. In addition, WN's MDW-CVG, LAS-PHX, and LAS-SAN nonstop routes are approximately the same distance as STL-MEM.


I just quoted that WN doesn't want to add service from MEM-STL because of distance. Are you calling the airport director a liar?

MDW is a huge station for WN so distance isn't going to matter as much (like with any hub), MCI is also a big station. BNA is a "hub" and DSM only has service to a couple stations hence they had to make them a spoke for a larger stations (STL/LAS/PHX). MEM already has service to DAL/MDW, etc so it doesn't need another connecting point so close.
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:58 pm

I could add that there is a lot more connectivity between St. Louis and Kansas City or Chicago than St. Louis and Memphis. We just have stronger historic business ties to those two destinations. Even leisure ties, really. The ties are strong enough that even Amtrak serves that route. WN wouldn't want to give it up to Amtrak, now would they?
;-) And LAS, PHX, and SAN are all enormous and deeply interconnected markets, so it doesn't matter how close together they are. Anyway . . . yeah, I'd love to see service to Memphis, but I can also see WN's logic. It's not a long drive. It's not a heavy route. Maybe the airport director is right and they could make it work. Maybe WN's flight scheduler is right and they couldn't. Maybe the truth is in the middle. But I expect they both know their business pretty well. (And I can't imagine jplatts was doubting the airport director's quote. Probably just lamenting the lack of service.)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:06 pm

I noticed that Delta has been using gate A9, to offload, for at least the last week for their flight from SLC that gets in around midnight. Good to see that gate getting some use, even if it is once a day. It means every gate in A that has a jetway is getting some regular use now.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:02 pm

I complied the PDEW numbers for the 3rd qtr of 2017 into a database. These are one way numbers.

These seem to be a pretty good indicator of what nonstops we have been getting. Sacramento (79 per day) was the highest without a nonstop when it was added and Hartford (61 per day) was the 2nd highest when it was added.

Highest PDEW without a nonstop
Jacksonville, FL 63 passengers per day (Allegiant runs this round to BLV but its numbers are not included)
Norfolk, VA 56 passengers per day
Richmond, VA 45 passengers per day

Destinations with a 20+ passenger increase from STL (3rd qtr 2016 vs 3rd qtr 2017)

Atlanta, GA +46 10.17%
San Diego, CA +36 16.70%
Miami, FL +35 15.99%
Austin, TX +32 23.53%
Denver, CO +24 3.89%
Boston, MA +22 6.08%
Charleston, SC +20 37.61%
Tampa, FL +20 10.91%
Phoenix, AZ +20 7.11%

Destinations with a 20+ passenger decrease from STL (3rd qtr 2016 vs 3rd qtr 2017)

Houston, TX -27 -9.37%
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX -28 -4.95%
Chicago, IL -35 -6.01%
Las Vegas, NV -37 -7.78%
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN -38 -10.71%
Los Angeles, CA -46 -7.14%



Qtr3-2017 tab has the years worth of numbers listed then averaged
2016-2017 3rd qtr comparison compares the 3rd qtr of 2016 to 3rd of 2017.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:58 am

Would like to mention (through an admin from a different forum who had it on good authority) that there is a strong possibility that the entirety of Concourse D will be reopened within the next few years, enabling the Terminal 1 - Terminal 2 connection once again. Apparently it's already in the planning phase.

However, as with all rumors, take it with a grain of salt (though this reopening seems inevitable regardless).
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