Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:58 pm

ADrum23 wrote:

Let me ask you this, do you guys want STL to remain in its current condition? Or would you rather STL design and build a new, consolidated terminal with modern amenities to give arriving passengers a better impression of STL?


I honestly don't care. Would a redone airport be nice, of course, but it won't make a difference in air service. Air service is all that really matters. It hasn't stopped WN from adding a bunch of new routes/flights. They seem to be happy with the current setup. So, until an airline says we are going to quit giving you flights because of the airport (like MCI) there isn't much incentive to spend a bunch of money on a teardown and rebuild. Some of the worst airports in the country have the most air service. I would rather the airport use money to pay down debt, decrease costs, or towards incentives than put a bunch of money into a rebuild that won't make a difference in the air service we get.
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:47 pm

Of course, we would all like to see KSTL turned into an aviation Taj Mahal.

The simple fact of the matter is, most of us realize that the city of STL, and to a lesser degree, the state, are far too incompetent for that to ever happen.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:34 am

STLflyer wrote:
On the subject of the glory days of STL, can someone help me out with something? Where was the exit from the US Customs and Border Patrol for international arrivals into the C gates back in the TWA days? The area where people picking up passengers off international flights would meet them I guess.

I remember going with my mom to pick up my sister from her class trip to Paris, and I'm 95% sure they flew nonstop, I'm also 95% certain we went through security into the C/D concourse (pre-9/11 days, so anyone could get through) and walked pretty far down, maybe in the C concourse, to meet her. BUT, that doesn't make any sense, because CBP can't exit into airside areas since passengers would have picked up their checked bags at CBP.

The only thing I can think of is it was some weird set up where arriving passengers would pick up their bags at CBP, re-check them just like connecting passengers, go through a security checkpoint to get back to airside C concourse, then claim their bags again at the landside T1 baggage claim. Or things were just way different in the pre-9/11 days. Or my recollection of things is wrong.

Anyone know how the international arrivals process worked in the main terminal?


I flew into C from LGW in '92 or '93 and we went downstairs in C, did the customs thing and emerged back in C. The only time I ever got a bit of a hassle because I looked like a diamond smuggler Interpol was looking for. Took and extra 10 minutes or so until they decided I wasn't him.
Next Up: STL-DTW-PWM-LGA-STL in September. Gotta have a decent bowl or five of lobster bisque! :tongue2:
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:43 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
With WN moving down D I wonder long-term if it wouldn't make sense for WN to move to a re-opened (the end bit) C concourse but that would probably make the T-1 terminal area a cluster-fudge pre-security.


Why would T-1 be more of a CF than T-2 landside? There's more space. There's a larger holding area for the security lines. There are more lanes at the C/D checkpoint than T-2. I'll grant that the E concourse is a bit more spacious than C, thanks to the more generous corridor area, but landside there's no comparison. The main terminal ticketing area is literally three times the size of the ticketing area in 2. There's more and better places to eat landside on the baggage carousel level alone at T-1 than all of T-2. More places to sit. More restrooms. There are real windows through which you can see something. I . . . don't understand what you mean. The only real complaint I've ever heard about T-1 is that the ceilings are low on the lower level, and it used to be a bit dark. What with the new ceilings and lighting, it doesn't even really feel that way anymore. Am I missing something?

There are perfectly good reasons for Southwest to want to stay put . . . for now. But I can't really believe the incredible landside experience in their terminal is really one of them. The lower level in T-2 is the gloomiest, most overcrowded pit of airport hell I know. And the main level isn't much better. It's fine once your through security, but it's not a place I care to tarry otherwise. (Having picked people up in both terminals on many many occasions.)
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:59 am

777PHX wrote:
I'm fairly certain WN has a significant financial stake in T2 so it'll be a cold day in hell before they move out of there and C concourse certainly isn't an upgrade.


Why do you say C isn't an upgrade? The only thing that's larger in E is the hallways. Other than that C has more of everything: more hold area , slightly more service area, far more club space (even after the new Wingtips lounge), and a much much larger security area. Even the old customs hall under C is slightly larger than the one in use at E. Less convenient, to be sure, since you have to reenter airside with everything that entails to get out, but it is slightly larger. I can send you square footage figures if you want. Essentially, C alone is a good size hub made for connections. E is a modest O&D facility. Does WN need a hub? Maybe not. But it most assuredly would be an upgrade if they had it to themselves and the remodel was finished out to the end. (Which seems increasingly probable sooner or later.) I will accept that WN has a financial stake in 2. And they've had a lot of control. One assumes they could trade that for a stake elsewhere if it were attractive to them, and they would have the same control. That said . . . I doubt AA would willingly give up their leases in C. Particularly the club spaces. E would most assuredly be a trade down for them.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:05 am

Trololzilla wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Why did all of the ground transportation info on Wiki get deleted? It's on every major airport and this knowledge is definitely "encyclopedic"

Some person came through and essentially erased a full third of the page unilaterally without even discussing it with anyone (me in particular, since I've been doing most of the editing on the Wiki page for the past few months). Though I believe they did so in good faith, they did, as you said, delete a LOT of useful information without any pertinent reason, and so I'm trying to get rollback privileges in order to rollback the Wiki to a state before they deleted everything. I don't even necessarily disagree with some of their deletions, it's just unjustifiable to delete so much without discussion, a proper reason, or the ability to properly discern useful encyclopedic information - they've done the same kind of deletions on multiple other airport pages as well, so it's been noticed.


Holy jeepers! I see what you mean. Sure, some updates were needed, but . . . wow! I'm watching the page again and looking through the revisions and the talk page. I'll try to follow a little more closely.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
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symphonicpoet
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:43 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Yes, I am well aware of the strict codes. I don't know how it is specifically in St. Louis, but I believe in a lot of areas once you shut down an older structure for a period of time and then want to resume using it, you have to bring up to code.


If close the building and it changes hands and needs a new occupancy permit, sure. But that's not the case here. It's not really closed, just closed to the public, or no longer in use as a gate area. Off limits save for special occasions.

I'm sorry, but you are not going to convince me that leaving the existing terminal in place (largely unused) and not doing anything other than minimal maintenance will cost less in the long term as opposed to a phased demolition/rebuild of the terminals. There are numerous examples of old structures that require renovations costing a ton of $$$ to bring it into a state of good repair and the powers that be find that its cheaper to simply demolish.


Even the amount that's closed now is increasingly small. The tail end of C and the portion of D between E and the C/D security checkpoint are the only areas really out of regular service at the moment. And they're talking about remodeling more of C. B isn't in use as a gate area, but they're using it as a special event space. Good rent in that. If I needed a reception it'd be on my list. T1 isn't busy, but it's not the ghost it was a few years back. And it's largely remodeled and, save for the ticketing hall, probably not as old as you think. The concourses were largely rebuilt in the seventies and variously remodeled in the eighties, nineties, and otts. D was even entirely new in the early 80s. That's not a new building now, but it's hardly old. And that only makes it twice as old as T2. Honestly, save for the foundations, nothing in the concourses is really all that old. Honestly, the remodeling has, in some cases, been pretty close to the "phased demolition and rebuild" you describe. The portions that are in day to day use ARE in good repair now, so far as I can see and from all reports I've heard. And the very fact there are underutilized concourses has allowed that to happen. In a phased way. Close C, open D. Remodel C. Open C, close D. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I don't really understand why STL is so attached to the existing terminal when other airports like it are redesigning and rebuilding to bring the airport into the 21st century and better serve passenger needs. STL deserves better.


Seems like a two part question to me. Why do I like the existing terminal? It's beautiful. It's historic. It's unique. It was, so far as I can tell, the first truly modern airport terminal and influenced a generation of similar buildings, both in appearance and in design. There were a few later alternatives; Pan Am's Worldport at JFK or MCI and later DFW; but none that proved so enduring. The only major difference between T1 and a truly modern design is that the entrance to airside is on the baggage claim level and not the ticketing level as is more usual these days.

What would a new terminal bring? New service? Better amenities? Why? How? And at what cost? The amenities are pretty comparable to what I've seen anywhere else in the world., save possibly for buying tourist brick-a-brack. The food seems about the same. The seats are comparable. The planes are the same planes. The wait for security is minimal. That's really all I care about. Would love more planes. Tell me how a new terminal brings that? I fear we'd have a small glass terminal that would look dated in twenty years and more expensive tickets to pay for it. Yes, I'd like to keep what we have. This isn't MCI. You're presenting a false choice based, I believe, on mistaken assumptions.
TW AA MU JL KE DL UA LOF GJS SKW WN
STL JFK FRA GVA CDG IAD ORD PVG SGN NRT ICN ATL SFO HKG MDW LGA BNA
L1011 MD82 83 88 B737 738 741 744 762 772 773 777 A320 E175 C700
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:33 pm

I was looking through some schedules and noticed UA has put 2 mainlines (737) on STL-HOU starting June 7. That will have us to 4 daily UA mainlines (1x SFO and 1xDEN) over summer. Nice to see them adding some in, seeing right now we have none on UA. Obviously this could change before now and then but it is nice to see them at putting a few on some routes.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:07 pm

STL-BDL added on WN
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:45 pm

More detailed look.

I went through the entire STL schedule.

BDL 1x daily
SFO goes to 2x daily on Sunday
PHL goes from 2x to 3x daily
ECP goes from daily to Saturday only (it ended in August last year)
CHS goes away (last year it went from daily to Saturday/Sunday only in August last year)
Down 1 weekly daily total from the Summer schedule to 114 but up 9 from last year for this extension (last year it went down 5 daily on this extension)

more detailed

Weekday changes from last year.

BDL 1x
SJC 1x
SMF 1x
PHL 2x to 3x
FLL 1x to 2x
MKE 1x to 2x
MSY 1x to 2x
MCO 3x to 4x
DCA 3x to 4x

Weekday flights 114 (105 Last Year)
Saturday 82 (78)
Sunday 111 (105)

I have all the frequencies here. For June and August 2018 only WN is updated the rest have not been.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:56 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
I was looking through some schedules and noticed UA has put 2 mainlines (737) on STL-HOU starting June 7. That will have us to 4 daily UA mainlines (1x SFO and 1xDEN) over summer. Nice to see them adding some in, seeing right now we have none on UA. Obviously this could change before now and then but it is nice to see them at putting a few on some routes.


Unreal! UA finally adding mainline! Still none to ORD which is SHOCKING!
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Interesting increase to DCA.

Anyone know where the cut came from?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:46 pm

stlgph wrote:
Interesting increase to DCA.

Anyone know where the cut came from?


The increase starts in April, when I get a chance I can look if WN put out a spreadsheet for that update. That or maybe I can find enrillas update.
 
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TWA302
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:05 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
More detailed look.

I went through the entire STL schedule.

BDL 1x daily
SFO goes to 2x daily on Sunday
PHL goes from 2x to 3x daily
ECP goes from daily to Saturday only (it ended in August last year)
CHS goes away (last year it went from daily to Saturday/Sunday only in August last year)
Down 1 weekly daily total from the Summer schedule to 114 but up 9 from last year for this extension (last year it went down 5 daily on this extension)

more detailed

Weekday changes from last year.

BDL 1x
SJC 1x
SMF 1x
PHL 2x to 3x
FLL 1x to 2x
MKE 1x to 2x
MSY 1x to 2x
MCO 3x to 4x
DCA 3x to 4x

Weekday flights 114 (105 Last Year)
Saturday 82 (78)
Sunday 111 (105)

I have all the frequencies here. For June and August 2018 only WN is updated the rest have not been.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing



BDL is a huge add! Glad to see more MCO too. I needed that!
 
jplatts
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:07 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Interesting increase to DCA.

Anyone know where the cut came from?


The increase starts in April, when I get a chance I can look if WN put out a spreadsheet for that update. That or maybe I can find enrillas update.


WN did discontinue IND-DCA nonstop service on November 4, 2017, and the discontinuation of IND-DCA nonstop service did free up slots for WN at DCA.
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:10 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Interesting increase to DCA.

Anyone know where the cut came from?


The increase starts in April, when I get a chance I can look if WN put out a spreadsheet for that update. That or maybe I can find enrillas update.


IND-DCA got cut around the same time. They were 2x daily. DAL looks like it picked up one of them.

Edit: jplatts beat me to it.
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:39 pm

The flight *from* Hartford doesn't hit *all* the spots on connection opportunities, but funnels right in to a few nice ones.

Works-
Sacramento
San Diego
Kansas City
Los Angeles
Houston
Dallas Love
New Orleans

Out of the way, but it works-
Seattle
Portland
Omaha
Chicago Midway

If you have extra time to kill-
Denver
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Milwaukee
Minneapolis

Really misses-
San Antonio
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Wichita
Austin
Little Rock

Entirely misses-
San Francisco
San Jose
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:42 pm

jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Interesting increase to DCA.

Anyone know where the cut came from?


The increase starts in April, when I get a chance I can look if WN put out a spreadsheet for that update. That or maybe I can find enrillas update.


WN did discontinue IND-DCA nonstop service on November 4, 2017, and the discontinuation of IND-DCA nonstop service did free up slots for WN at DCA.


I remember that quite well, for sure, just interesting they would squat on the slots that long without using them.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:48 pm

stlgph wrote:
The flight *from* Hartford doesn't hit *all* the spots on connection opportunities, but funnels right in to a few nice ones.

Works-
Sacramento
San Diego
Kansas City
Los Angeles
Houston
Dallas Love
New Orleans

Out of the way, but it works-
Seattle
Portland
Omaha
Chicago Midway

If you have extra time to kill-
Denver
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Milwaukee
Minneapolis

Really misses-
San Antonio
Oklahoma City
Tulsa
Wichita
Austin
Little Rock

Entirely misses-
San Francisco
San Jose


I might be looking at this wrong (maybe we are looking at different days. I just picked a random weekday, August 23)but SJC leaves at 1:45 and Oak leaves at 1:55 so those would work also
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:49 pm

stlgph wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:

The increase starts in April, when I get a chance I can look if WN put out a spreadsheet for that update. That or maybe I can find enrillas update.


WN did discontinue IND-DCA nonstop service on November 4, 2017, and the discontinuation of IND-DCA nonstop service did free up slots for WN at DCA.


I remember that quite well, for sure, just interesting they would squat on the slots that long without using them.


Maybe they are using them to fly south during Nov-March?
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:02 pm

Hit or miss on the California cities then.

Of note, Hartford to Midway used to be say 4 to 5 daily say roughly 7 or 8 years ago, etc. It then went down to 2 or 3 daily with service and flow through BWI increased. Now it appears with STL coming on board, some of the BWI frequencies might be reduced a bit. Interesting network flow change for Southwest to/from Hartford.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:02 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:
jplatts wrote:

WN did discontinue IND-DCA nonstop service on November 4, 2017, and the discontinuation of IND-DCA nonstop service did free up slots for WN at DCA.


I remember that quite well, for sure, just interesting they would squat on the slots that long without using them.


Maybe they are using them to fly south during Nov-March?


Possible. Just curious who got the temporary boost is all.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ruskistl
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:39 am

I think missing in the discussion about saving unused parts of the airport versus tearing down is the a historical understanding. The reason the STL people are so against demolition is that we've seen our gem of a city ravaged by unnecessary demolition for the better part of a century. Most of the time politicians were clearing "blight" to make way for some distant dream of something better. Those never came to fruition. Meanwhile the buildings/assets that have remained turned out to be our biggest advantage.

Also the airport is already laboring a huge debt from the runway expansion debacle. Putting any sort of big investment into the airport is going to be met with a ton of skepticism.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:58 am

stlgph wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
stlgph wrote:

I remember that quite well, for sure, just interesting they would squat on the slots that long without using them.


Maybe they are using them to fly south during Nov-March?


Possible. Just curious who got the temporary boost is all.


DCA-TPA got an extra frequency
2018: AMS, ATL, BOS, BWI, CDG, CLT, CMN, DCA, DFW, DTW, EWR, FLL, FRA, HPN, JFK, IAD, IAH, IND, LAX, LGA, LHR, LOS, MAD, MIA, MSP, ORD, PHL, PVD, SAN, SEA, SJD, SLC, SFO, TPA, TXL, ZRH....Loading....
 
Trololzilla
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:29 pm

ruskistl wrote:
I think missing in the discussion about saving unused parts of the airport versus tearing down is the a historical understanding. The reason the STL people are so against demolition is that we've seen our gem of a city ravaged by unnecessary demolition for the better part of a century. Most of the time politicians were clearing "blight" to make way for some distant dream of something better. Those never came to fruition. Meanwhile the buildings/assets that have remained turned out to be our biggest advantage.

Not really sure how much this aspect matters in the demolition/no demolition debate. While yes, St. Louis has a rather unfortunate history with needless destruction (far too much, I might add :(), the people that care enough to raise any sort of stink are likely a rather small portion of the MSA. Furthermore, the portions of the terminal that would be demolished are far from "historical", I'd say; really, that moniker would only truly apply to Terminal 1 itself, and not so much the concourses (especially not D).

Also the airport is already laboring a huge debt from the runway expansion debacle. Putting any sort of big investment into the airport is going to be met with a ton of skepticism.

"Laboring" is a bit of a stretch, TBH. While the airport is still shouldering a considerable debt load, to be sure, it's well on its way to 'paying it off', and definitely isn't being sunk or losing service because of it.
 
Jshank83
Topic Author
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:02 am

Updated my 2018 Load Factor Spreadsheet with the November numbers.

I never really noticed until now how low the LFs are for pretty much anywhere north of a line from BNA-TUL in Jan and Feb. Some places have mid 80 for the year with 60s or lower for Jan/Feb. I knew those months were slow but not THAT slow.

Notes
CVG on DL seems to be getting better. They must be timing connections better. Prices have also been lowered recently so maybe that is helping
STL-SAN on WN is over 90% on average for the year. October was over 97.5% on the outbound. Crazy to see how fast that has grown from being seasonal just a couple years ago. Now it is 2 or 3 times a day. AS started their route there in December so it will be interesting to see how that goes.
STL-PDX on WN also having some months above 95%. I will be curious to see if that ever goes to 2x daily seasonally.

All Stats at this link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 398
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:11 am

STLflyer wrote:
Cardinals fly a Delta 757 and land at CPS, so it’s not them. Blues fly a Miami Air 737 and land at STL, so it’s not them. I think most other MLB and NHL teams use narrow bodies.

No scheduled widebodies, so they’re either one-off equipment swaps, charters or diversions.


With a couple of exceptions, the majority of US-based NHL teams fly a chartered 737 (Swift or Miami Air; the Blues fly Swift unless that changed during the season) or a DL 752, while the Canadian NHL teams exclusively fly an AC 319. The only other teams who would be chartering into STL would likely be NCAA D1 teams from the Atlantic 10 Conference (St. Louis University is a member of the A-10).

Though, after reading the report through the link posted here, I wonder how many of those widebodies are actually cargo jets (UPS, etc.)...
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:51 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Cardinals fly a Delta 757 and land at CPS, so it’s not them. Blues fly a Miami Air 737 and land at STL, so it’s not them. I think most other MLB and NHL teams use narrow bodies.

No scheduled widebodies, so they’re either one-off equipment swaps, charters or diversions.


With a couple of exceptions, the majority of US-based NHL teams fly a chartered 737 (Swift or Miami Air; the Blues fly Swift unless that changed during the season) or a DL 752, while the Canadian NHL teams exclusively fly an AC 319. The only other teams who would be chartering into STL would likely be NCAA D1 teams from the Atlantic 10 Conference (St. Louis University is a member of the A-10).

Though, after reading the report through the link posted here, I wonder how many of those widebodies are actually cargo jets (UPS, etc.)...

Someone said somewhere (I don't remember where) that it wasn't cargo. I know that DL had some swaps on ATL and, as noted, the state farm charter was there too
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:52 pm

stl07 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:
STLflyer wrote:
Cardinals fly a Delta 757 and land at CPS, so it’s not them. Blues fly a Miami Air 737 and land at STL, so it’s not them. I think most other MLB and NHL teams use narrow bodies.

No scheduled widebodies, so they’re either one-off equipment swaps, charters or diversions.


With a couple of exceptions, the majority of US-based NHL teams fly a chartered 737 (Swift or Miami Air; the Blues fly Swift unless that changed during the season) or a DL 752, while the Canadian NHL teams exclusively fly an AC 319. The only other teams who would be chartering into STL would likely be NCAA D1 teams from the Atlantic 10 Conference (St. Louis University is a member of the A-10).

Though, after reading the report through the link posted here, I wonder how many of those widebodies are actually cargo jets (UPS, etc.)...

Someone said somewhere (I don't remember where) that it wasn't cargo. I know that DL had some swaps on ATL and, as noted, the state farm charter was there too


Cargo had their own separate category.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:30 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
ctrabs0114 wrote:

With a couple of exceptions, the majority of US-based NHL teams fly a chartered 737 (Swift or Miami Air; the Blues fly Swift unless that changed during the season) or a DL 752, while the Canadian NHL teams exclusively fly an AC 319. The only other teams who would be chartering into STL would likely be NCAA D1 teams from the Atlantic 10 Conference (St. Louis University is a member of the A-10).

Though, after reading the report through the link posted here, I wonder how many of those widebodies are actually cargo jets (UPS, etc.)...

Someone said somewhere (I don't remember where) that it wasn't cargo. I know that DL had some swaps on ATL and, as noted, the state farm charter was there too


Cargo had their own separate category.


I saw that after the fact... My mistake.
2018: BWI, PIT, MDW, MCI, STL, DAL
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:48 am

From the January Board Meeting.

A project has been bid to expand the F checkpoint in Terminal 2, adding an additional security
lane on the west side of the ticketing lobby. Additionally, the Airport is contemplating
relocating the outside check—in desk 100 yards to the west of its current location, which will
regulate the traffic flow more efficiently.

Due to an expected increase in international traffic, the Customs Conveyor System located in the
International Arrivals area of Terminal 2 is being replaced. Completion is expected in the spring
of 2018. More announcements coming soon?

In response to a question regarding whether Concourse D, which connects the two terminals,
could be reopened, the Chairperson responded that there have been conversations regarding the
matter, but it would be dependent on whether Southwest Airlines or other airlines request
expansion into that area. In that event, the Airport would renovate additional gate areas, along
with the moving walkways, and reopen the connecting concourse.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... inutes.pdf
 
atrude777
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:57 am

May have been discussed here...

The same dates United is throwing the 2 737's STL-IAH, I am also seeing another Mainline to DEN, Airbus A320, and Mainline to SFO, Airbus A319. Some days are seeing 4 Mainline flights on United out of STL, to DEN, SFO and IAH.

Glad to see more mainline coming back to STL on the United side....

Certain days, STL-IAH is primarily E175's! Upgrade from those 50 Seater E145's!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:52 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
From the January Board Meeting.

A project has been bid to expand the F checkpoint in Terminal 2, adding an additional security
lane on the west side of the ticketing lobby. Additionally, the Airport is contemplating
relocating the outside check—in desk 100 yards to the west of its current location, which will
regulate the traffic flow more efficiently.

Due to an expected increase in international traffic, the Customs Conveyor System located in the
International Arrivals area of Terminal 2 is being replaced. Completion is expected in the spring
of 2018. More announcements coming soon?

In response to a question regarding whether Concourse D, which connects the two terminals,
could be reopened, the Chairperson responded that there have been conversations regarding the
matter, but it would be dependent on whether Southwest Airlines or other airlines request
expansion into that area. In that event, the Airport would renovate additional gate areas, along
with the moving walkways, and reopen the connecting concourse.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... inutes.pdf

I found the "international trash" comment interesting too. Also, doesn't F9 already fly in a321s for service to CUN. Why would the carousel need an upgrade for WW's? Maybe just the sheer amount of use? Everything does point to some major international change, it is just confusing as to if it is WW or someone new.
Last edited by stl07 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:53 pm

atrude777 wrote:
May have been discussed here...

The same dates United is throwing the 2 737's STL-IAH, I am also seeing another Mainline to DEN, Airbus A320, and Mainline to SFO, Airbus A319. Some days are seeing 4 Mainline flights on United out of STL, to DEN, SFO and IAH.

Glad to see more mainline coming back to STL on the United side....

Certain days, STL-IAH is primarily E175's! Upgrade from those 50 Seater E145's!

Alex

Finally. I may start using UA again!
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:41 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
From the January Board Meeting.

Due to an expected increase in international traffic, the Customs Conveyor System located in the
International Arrivals area of Terminal 2 is being replaced. Completion is expected in the spring
of 2018. More announcements coming soon?


https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... inutes.pdf

I found the "international trash" comment interesting too. Also, doesn't F9 already fly in a321s for service to CUN. Why would the carousel need an upgrade for WW's? Maybe just the sheer amount of use? Everything does point to some major international change, it is just confusing as to if it is WW or someone new.



Yeah, I don't know why it would need an upgrade unless they expect multiple planes at once or a big increase. Frontier already flies an a321 like you said you Cancun. WW will increase use and WN is going daily on CUN for March, so maybe that is it but this might also foreshadow a BA announcement this summer sometime. WW and BA planes coming in at the same time would put a decent increase on FIS usage.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:00 pm

Thank you Trololzilla and others for fixing the Wiki page
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:37 am

This is different.

Unusual scene...Emergency equip on runway at @flystl and St. Louis Police not letting anyone on @united flights leave terminal w/o checking their boarding pass. Never seen that before.
Searching for someone?

https://twitter.com/RandiNaughton/statu ... 9680553984
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:50 am

I would doubt the above has to do with this but a DL flight took off and returned pretty much right away back to the airport.

UA and DL share a concourse so I guess in theory it could.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KSTL/KSTL
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:37 am

I guess it was for that flight.

.@flystl police currently concluding a security check of @delta aircraft flt #1199 as a precaution after aircraft diverted back to STL on way to ATL around 6:45 p.m. Passengers back in Conc A pending aircraft check.

https://twitter.com/flystl/status/966503820682555393
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:08 am

Not a surprise since they added an extra flight to the schedule a month or so ago but here is a confirmation of strong sales.


WOW said it would add service in three other Midwest cities when it announced service in Cincinnati in August, including St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit. CVG to date has had the second-strongest ticket sales behind St. Louis, Spann said. WOW added a fifth weekly flight in that market in January.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/wow-a ... stinations
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:14 am

Jshank83 wrote:
Not a surprise since they added an extra flight to the schedule a month or so ago but here is a confirmation of strong sales.


WOW said it would add service in three other Midwest cities when it announced service in Cincinnati in August, including St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit. CVG to date has had the second-strongest ticket sales behind St. Louis, Spann said. WOW added a fifth weekly flight in that market in January.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/wow-a ... stinations

Great news, showed that there was always demand and the legacies in America and Europe were wrong about Lambert.

Now, the real question is are many Europeans also coming here for a visit or is it just St. Louisians leaving?
 
Jshank83
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:54 am

stl07 wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
Not a surprise since they added an extra flight to the schedule a month or so ago but here is a confirmation of strong sales.


WOW said it would add service in three other Midwest cities when it announced service in Cincinnati in August, including St. Louis, Cleveland and Detroit. CVG to date has had the second-strongest ticket sales behind St. Louis, Spann said. WOW added a fifth weekly flight in that market in January.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/wow-a ... stinations

Great news, showed that there was always demand and the legacies in America and Europe were wrong about Lambert.

Now, the real question is are many Europeans also coming here for a visit or is it just St. Louisians leaving?


I am sure there will be both. Just like some people over here are looking for cheap flights to Europe, I am sure some Europeans are looking for cheap flights to the USA. Now I am sure it will be more from STL going that way (and probably by a fair amount) but I think it should increase people coming here also, by some amount. I know part of the incentive money goes to marketing in Europe. I would be curious what he split is for other cities like PIT.
 
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:11 pm

Paid parking starts at BLV in April. $5 a day max. First hour free.

https://twitter.com/maairport/status/968168200130170880
 
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:10 am

This is a couple months old but I haven't seen it posted. Apologizes if it has been. Chalupa posted it on a different message board.

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/new ... /425713/14

Lists STL as the 3rd fastest growing airpot for Intl passengers from 2015 to 2016 (by percentage) 277% growth. That number should get a good boost this year with a full year of the extra AC flight, Southwest to CUN (daily for a month) and WOW coming in 4-5x a week.
 
LambertMan
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:52 pm

Did anyone see Lyda Krewson's tweet at Delta insinuating they should open a hub in St. Louis? What a total lack of situational awareness and an embarrassment to all parties involved. The idea is ludicrous. If that is the best we have for city leadership (this isn't the only WTF moment so far) then I have concerns about the future's city.
 
RJNUT
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:15 pm

^^^across the state same silliness Mayor James in KC

Hey @Delta! We are building a new airport. Ready November 2021. Wanna talk? We are ready to listen. Think about the savings of being in the middle of the country?sounds good doesn’t it?
 
777PHX
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:20 pm

LambertMan wrote:
Did anyone see Lyda Krewson's tweet at Delta insinuating they should open a hub in St. Louis? What a total lack of situational awareness and an embarrassment to all parties involved. The idea is ludicrous. If that is the best we have for city leadership (this isn't the only WTF moment so far) then I have concerns about the future's city.


She's already proven herself to be worse than Slay, which is saying a lot. The city hoodlums came to the mayor's residence in their most recent round of riots and vandalized the hell out of it. Then she actually has the balls to tell STLMPD that she doesn't want anyone arrested or charged for it. Talk about letting the inmates run the asylum.

As far as Delta is concerned, they're obviously not going anywhere, but I'd have to imagine STL would be the last place on their list in the extremely unlikely event they fancied such a move.

STL won't be going anywhere as a city as long as we continue to put these liberal shitheads in the mayor's seat.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:37 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Let me ask you this, do you guys want STL to remain in its current condition? Or would you rather STL design and build a new, consolidated terminal with modern amenities to give arriving passengers a better impression of STL?


Everyone wants new, shiny things, but STL can not afford it. As for D, it really is not in that bad shape overall, I am told. Gates can be activated easily and that is why WN is creeping down the concourse. Now, the purple carpeting is out of date and appearance is ugly, but the underlying facilities work fine.
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:22 pm

777PHX wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
Did anyone see Lyda Krewson's tweet at Delta insinuating they should open a hub in St. Louis? What a total lack of situational awareness and an embarrassment to all parties involved. The idea is ludicrous. If that is the best we have for city leadership (this isn't the only WTF moment so far) then I have concerns about the future's city.


She's already proven herself to be worse than Slay, which is saying a lot. The city hoodlums came to the mayor's residence in their most recent round of riots and vandalized the hell out of it. Then she actually has the balls to tell STLMPD that she doesn't want anyone arrested or charged for it. Talk about letting the inmates run the asylum.

As far as Delta is concerned, they're obviously not going anywhere, but I'd have to imagine STL would be the last place on their list in the extremely unlikely event they fancied such a move.

STL won't be going anywhere as a city as long as we continue to put these liberal shitheads in the mayor's seat.

I think you all need to relax. She was just making a lighthearted social media comment. While she does have her flaws, she wasn't born last night. She knows that DL won't move here. But by saying that, she is sending DL (who is growing in STL) the message that they can do business here without fear of repercussion based on their policies like we saw in ATL. In response to the "liberal" comment, its not the political party we need to change, its our quality and action of politicians. In regards to civil aviation, since this isn't the non aviation section about st. louis, I would actually say that conservatives have done worse for our airport, for it was them who voted down the tax credit, causing our China cargo hub to fail, and every time I turn on the TV or look at the front page of a newspaper I see the GOP governer's mugshot for a sex scandal and him walking out of court in dwtn STL - not the place I would want to visit for a vacation or engage in business with if that was all I saw. It was the democratic government of Strenger that got us our WOW flight, and like KEF or not, we would have had nothing without his government's initiative. Keep in mind I am in no way shape or form saying that I am ok with the way the Democrats are in the city, but we need to stop getting so heated about small things like a stupid twitter comment.

We also need to start seeing the good and progress in STL. Just next to her DL comment was a picture of a new contemporary skyscraper groundbreaking and above that was some Chinese visiting to discuss trade with STL. If St. Louis was as bad as a.net people portray it, none of these would be happening
 
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stl07
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Re: STL air service discussion - 2018

Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:29 pm

RJNUT wrote:
^^^across the state same silliness Mayor James in KC

Hey @Delta! We are building a new airport. Ready November 2021. Wanna talk? We are ready to listen. Think about the savings of being in the middle of the country?sounds good doesn’t it?

What's so bad about a lighthearted twitter comment? DL is growing in midsized cities and this is Missouri's way of saying they are open for business without the politics that Delta sees in their hometown. Look what they did in IND and AUS. Which civil leader wouldn't want that?

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