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neomax
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Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:47 pm

Recently heard that ATL is within a two-hour flight from 80% of the US population. That got me thinking, which major hub has the shortest average flight time to 100% of the mainland US population?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:48 pm

Chicago probably.
 
737max8
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 pm

I feel like central is obvious (DFW or ORD) and more population up north so ORD?
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stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:51 pm

Newark.
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ibthebigd
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:52 pm

I would guess Chicago?
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:01 pm

I think ATL or EWR are the best guesses. While the US population has been shifting southward and westward, it's still pretty concentrated east of the Mississippi. FedEx and UPS have hubs in Memphis and Louisville due to their relative proximity - both driving and flying distance - from a significant chunk of the US population.
 
bigb
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:02 pm

DFW wins, I believe it has the most flights either 2 or 3 hours. I couldn't remember which.
 
stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:07 pm

so i'm just going to guess population geography isn't really a thing, eh?

and are we going with what's in the first post or what's in the subject?
Last edited by stlgph on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:11 pm

Going with Chicago. Hence why three airlines have hubs there. Just imagine what it could accomplish without the delays and infrastructure issues.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:11 pm

Denver seems to be the largest most centrally located hub. Chicago is definitely so, but very few places in the US are more than four hours away from Denver. Further west from Chicago can be longer of course.
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stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?


the thread title says "mainland U.S," implicating physical points.

the first post then talks population in the U.S. mainland.

population density and physical distances are not the same thing.

which is why i just made a post about clarifying this.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:14 pm

What do you mean by Mainland, Continental or Contiguous? If Contiguous, where in AK do you count as reaching 100%? With existing flights or imaginary non-stops? One airline or all? Going to be ORD, SLC, SFO, DFW, or LAX.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:15 pm

paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?

because something like 80% of the population lives east of the Mississippi.

I remember back in the days of PIT being a hub for US that they would brag that it's east of 50% of the population and west of 50% of the population, or something like that, making IT the most central hub in the US.

However today, if EWR is the answer, then so is PHL, and IAD is probably even better.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Ok, I have some data which I was able to play with.... I used hubs as listed in Wikipedia for UAL, AAL, DAL, and SWA

This is the average great circle distance between the hub and all airports in the Continental United States that have any air service (as best as I can tell). The averages include cities pairs even if they don't have non-stop service.

ID ICAO - Avg Dist Unweighted (NM)
KMDW 727.1
KORD 728.6
KCVG 746.3
KDAL 761.4
KDFW 761.9
KMSP 770.5
KDTW 802.7
KDEN 803.3
KATL 805.8
KIAH 836.8
KHOU 848.8
KCLT 855.8
KIAD 929.9
KDCA 944.1
KBWI 956.4
KSLC 983.2
KPHL 1007.3
KMCO 1037.4
KEWR 1049
KLGA 1060.5
KPHX 1064.5
KLAS 1113.3
KMIA 1173.6
KBOS 1181.5
KLAX 1268
KOAK 1356
KSFO 1363.6
KSEA 1389.7
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stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:20 pm

D L X wrote:
paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?

because something like 80% of the population lives east of the Mississippi.

I remember back in the days of PIT being a hub for US that they would brag that it's east of 50% of the population and west of 50% of the population, or something like that, making IT the most central hub in the US.

However today, if EWR is the answer, then so is PHL, and IAD is probably even better.


i was tempted between PHL v. EWR, went with EWR because of its proximity to NYC and i read the question as "flight time to the population," which is pretty general, not specific to airports. for example, Central Park Int'l. could open tomorrow and a flight out of EWR to Central Park Int'l., would possibly spend its entire 5 minute flight well within a close range of 4 million people.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:20 pm

Using some "Center Point" Definition:

From Mean Population Center from 2010 Census (37.517534N, 92.173096W), ORD is 383mi away while DFW is 421mi away.
From Mean Population Center from 2017 Estimate (37.411764N, 92.394544W), ORD is 396mi away while DFW is 408mi away.
From Geographic Center of US, inc. Alaska and Hawaii (44 58 02N, 103 46 17W), DEN is the closest hub (356mi away)
From Geographic Center of CONUS (So excluding Alaska and Hawaii) (39 50N, 98 35W), DEN is still the closest hub (324mi away)

Population-wise, DFW may take over from ORD soon as the population in the south continue to grow. Geographical-wise, though, DEN is actually closest the the center point of US.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:25 pm

D L X wrote:
paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?

because something like 80% of the population lives east of the Mississippi.

.



Not hardly -- Texas has 28 million, California has 39 million -- right there you have over 20% of the nation's population. Throw in MO, WA, OR and the rest and way more than 20% of the population lies west of the Mississippi.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:26 pm

I agree with Chicago as there are ample large metro areas in the East, LA is 4 hours & the largest metro in the West, while the rest of the West Coast pales in comparison to LA as far as population. The Bay Area is huge, but SF is small with only 49 square miles of city.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:31 pm

Just because ORD is probably the closest to being at the center of the US population, does NOT mean it is the closest airport to or largest number of flights to any airport in the US.

Thus, DFW hub is bigger and has more flights to more airports and is closer to those said airports.

By the way, if Kansas City officials got their act together with larger terminals in the 1970s, then their hub would have been the main hub the US and closest to all other airports.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:32 pm

The central point of US population is somewhere in Missouri. So MEM, CVG, ORD, STL would be the answer.

The reason why there is no hub there is interesting - it is because multiple hubs are allowed, so hubs emerge that specialize in each region of the county, and they kill off central hubs like STL and MEM. FedEx at MEM is the most famous example of a lower-48 single hub. As a fuel-minimizing location for a single freight hub, MEM was a good location. Since freight is a smaller market than passenger, it was necessary to focus on 1 hub at first in order to provide overnight services nationwide. Having 2 hubs that can't connect Eugene OR with Greenville SC overnight defeats the purpose. So it has to be one hub for their original business case.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:39 pm

Reading the question again, it really is just asking what is the most central US hub to the land, not the population. It used to be STL, but now it is ORD.

I verified this by using GCMap.com to find the distances between STL, IAH, DFW, DEN, and ORD to 18 representative airports in the mainland US: LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, PHX, IAH, DFW, STL, ORD, DEN, CVG, ATL, JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, DCA, and CLT.

The average distance between STL and those 18 airports was 880 mi. Between DEN and those 18 airports was 1054. Between IAH and those 18 airports, it's 1042. Between DFW and those 18 airports, it's 975. Between ORD and those 18 airports, it's 937. ORD wins.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:46 pm

jakubz wrote:
Ok, I have some data which I was able to play with.... I used hubs as listed in Wikipedia for UAL, AAL, DAL, and SWA

I think this is more or less the right approach. The reason the shortest average flight time will be skewed towards the east (putting Chicago at the minimum) is because there simply aren't that many airports out west as compared to near the east coast. That will (correctly) skew the averages. If you're looking for shortest average flight time, you're looking at actual flights. As in, no one is flying to the Mojave Desert, so that distance would not factor into the average.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:49 pm

Flighty wrote:
The central point of US population is somewhere in Missouri. So MEM, CVG, ORD, STL would be the answer.

The reason why there is no hub there is interesting - it is because multiple hubs are allowed, .


Actually, most hubs share two traits (1) central location that maximizes convenient connections and (2) location in large metro area (ie. large O&D traffic). ORD, DFW, EWR, LAX, IAH, IAD, ATL come to mind. SLC and DEN only have the first point.going for them. Why are they hubs? Because of a need for a connection point somewhere in the middle of the country, and nothing else seems to do better. MEM, CVG, and STL aren't needed as hubs because the ones I listed first do a better job and share both population and convenience..
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:54 pm

D L X wrote:
Reading the question again, it really is just asking what is the most central US hub to the land, not the population. It used to be STL, but now it is ORD.

I verified this by using GCMap.com to find the distances between STL, IAH, DFW, DEN, and ORD to 18 representative airports in the mainland US: LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, PHX, IAH, DFW, STL, ORD, DEN, CVG, ATL, JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, DCA, and CLT.

The average distance between STL and those 18 airports was 880 mi. Between DEN and those 18 airports was 1054. Between IAH and those 18 airports, it's 1042. Between DFW and those 18 airports, it's 975. Between ORD and those 18 airports, it's 937. ORD wins.


I reran my analysis and included KSTL. Here are the resulting top 6. KSTL would win by close to 50nm. However, it wasn't listed as a hub for any of the 4 airlines I used.
ID ICAO - Avg Dist Unweighted (NM)
KSTL 681.3
KMDW 727.1
KORD 728.6
KCVG 746.3
KDAL 761.4
KDFW 761.9


My calculations where for 314 airports in the Continental US.

The airports included are:
KABE, KABI, KABQ, KABY, KACK, KACT, KACV, KACY, KAEX, KAGS, KAIA, KALB, KALO, KALS, KALW, KAMA, KASE, KATL, KATW, KAUS, KAVL, KAVP, KAZO, KBBG, KBDL, KBFL, KBGR, KBHM, KBIL, KBIS, KBKW, KBLI, KBMI, KBNA, KBOI, KBOS, KBPT, KBQK, KBRL, KBRO, KBTM, KBTR, KBTV, KBUF, KBUR, KBWI, KBZN, KCAE, KCAK, KCDC, KCDR, KCEZ, KCGI, KCHA, KCHO, KCHS, KCID, KCKB, KCLE, KCLL, KCLT, KCMH, KCMI, KCMX, KCNM, KCNY, KCOD, KCOS, KCOU, KCPR, KCRP, KCRW, KCSG, KCVG, KCVN, KCWA, KDAB, KDAL, KDAY, KDBQ, KDCA, KDEC, KDEN, KDFW, KDHN, KDIK, KDLH, KDRO, KDRT, KDSM, KDTW, KDVL, KEAT, KEAU, KECP, KEGE, KEKO, KELD, KELP, KERI, KEUG, KEVV, KEWN, KEWR, KEYW, KFAR, KFAT, KFAY, KFLL, KFLO, KFMN, KFNT, KFSD, KFSM, KFWA, KGCC, KGCK, KGEG, KGGG, KGJT, KGLH, KGNV, KGPI, KGPT, KGRB, KGRI, KGRK, KGRR, KGSO, KGSP, KGTF, KGTR, KGUC, KHDN, KHLN, KHOB, KHOT, KHOU, KHPN, KHRL, KHRO, KHSV, KHTS, KHXD, KHYS, KIAD, KIAH, KICT, KIDA, KILM, KIND, KIPL, KISN, KITH, KIWD, KIYK, KJAC, KJAN, KJAX, KJFK, KJLN, KJMS, KLAN, KLAR, KLAS, KLAW, KLAX, KLBB, KLCH, KLEX, KLFT, KLGA, KLGB, KLIT, KLNK, KLRD, KLSE, KLUK, KLWB, KLWS, KLYH, KMAF, KMBL, KMBS, KMCE, KMCI, KMCK, KMCO, KMCW, KMDT, KMDW, KMEI, KMEM, KMFE, KMFR, KMGM, KMHK, KMHT, KMIA, KMKE, KMKG, KMLB, KMLI, KMLU, KMMH, KMOB, KMOT, KMRY, KMSL, KMSN, KMSO, KMSP, KMSY, KMTJ, KMVY, KMYR, KOAJ, KOAK, KOKC, KOMA, KONT, KORD, KORF, KOTH, KPAH, KPBI, KPDX, KPGV, KPHF, KPHL, KPHX, KPIA, KPIB, KPIH, KPIR, KPIT, KPKB, KPNS, KPRC, KPSC, KPSP, KPUB, KPUW, KPVD, KPVU, KPWM, KRAP, KRDD, KRDM, KRDU, KRIC, KRKS, KRNO, KROA, KROC, KROW, KRST, KRSW, KSAF, KSAN, KSAT, KSAV, KSAW, KSBA, KSBN, KSBP, KSBY, KSDF, KSEA, KSFB, KSFO, KSGF, KSGU, KSHD, KSHV, KSJC, KSJT, KSLC, KSLN, KSMF, KSMX, KSNA, KSPI, KSPS, KSRQ, KSTL, KSTS, KSUN, KSUX, KSWO, KSYR, KTEX, KTLH, KTOL, KTPA, KTRI, KTTN, KTUL, KTUS, KTVC, KTWF, KTXK, KTYR, KTYS, KUIN, KUNV, KVCT, KVEL, KVLD, KVPS, KVRB, KWYS, KXNA, KYKM
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:56 pm

D L X wrote:
paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?

because something like 80% of the population lives east of the Mississippi.

I remember back in the days of PIT being a hub for US that they would brag that it's east of 50% of the population and west of 50% of the population, or something like that, making IT the most central hub in the US.

However today, if EWR is the answer, then so is PHL, and IAD is probably even better.


That's not even remotely true. Only about 58% of the US population lives east of the Mississippi, so just over half. And the mean center of population hasn't been near PIT since 1840, so US Airway's claim of PIT being in the middle of the country was nothing more than a marketing strategy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_the_United_States_population
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:06 pm

The U.S. population is split East-West of the Mississippi approximately ~60/40 respectively, the current estimated mean center of population of the U.S. is Wright County, MO, which would give ORD and then DFW the fastest access to most of the U.S. population. DEN and even MSP aren't badly positioned either. STL probably has the most ideal physical location, but isn't as viable as a mega-hub as ORD and DFW for a variety of reasons.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:16 pm

An interesting question is "which hub location is best from the standpoint of pure geographic location" (ie excluding metro area size and demand).

Being central to the entire area is not necessarily best from the standpoint of pure geography. There's a reason hubs like PTY and KEF are still small niche hubs despite being respectively close to the population centers of the Americas and North American/European populations.

There are many attributes of an ideal hub, some of which are pretty subtle:
- Proximity to the routes between places with large O&D flows.
- Proximity to small and medium metro areas which lack direct air service to other markets. This is where northeastern markets suffer; the metro areas are so large that they each have direct air service to all of the other major markets in the country. Therefore few connecting opportunities to cities in their hinterlands.
- Remoteness of competing very large metro areas. If BNA were 2 million people larger, it would probably be a megahub, which would detract significantly from ATL and CLT.
- Having modest stage lengths to very high O&D airports.
...and many more of course.

You could probably come reasonably close to determining the viability of the different hubs on pure geographic power by subtracting O&D traffic from overall traffic, although this will still be biased wildly towards large metro areas. This makes sense, as it's impossible to divorce the metro areas themselves from the notion of an ideal hub location.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:20 pm

I’m not sure I even understand what the OP is asking. What does “shortest average flight time” mean? Does it mean one flight from the hub to the home of every person? Does it mean shortest flight from the hub to the closest airport near a given person? Does that mean areas with more airports (Bay Area, NY area, LA area) weight the average more because you’d have to count flights to OAK/SFO/SJC separately, vs. some place like DEN or SLC which only has one major airport nearby. Are we counting existing flights only (and do multiple frequencies on a route count just once, or does each flight count separately)?
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:38 pm

D L X wrote:
Reading the question again, it really is just asking what is the most central US hub to the land, not the population. It used to be STL, but now it is ORD.

I verified this by using GCMap.com to find the distances between STL, IAH, DFW, DEN, and ORD to 18 representative airports in the mainland US: LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, PHX, IAH, DFW, STL, ORD, DEN, CVG, ATL, JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, DCA, and CLT.

The average distance between STL and those 18 airports was 880 mi. Between DEN and those 18 airports was 1054. Between IAH and those 18 airports, it's 1042. Between DFW and those 18 airports, it's 975. Between ORD and those 18 airports, it's 937. ORD wins.


In curious if there is a reason you did not include MSP? It is a major hub in a state that, although slightly more north than Chicago, is actually more central in an east to west direction than any other hub, outside of those in Texas.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 pm

It is obviously ORD. The history supports it in many aspects.
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:58 pm

Very interesting thread!
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:07 am

ORD it 2 hrs 5 mins from IAH. If AA still had hub at STL, then STL would be the answer.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:20 am

neomax wrote:
Recently heard that ATL is within a two-hour flight from 80% of the US population. That got me thinking, which major hub has the shortest average flight time to 100% of the mainland US population?


Thanks for coming up with this thread. I have never thought of this before. I am looking forward to reading to over other's input. Of the top of my head, I would guess DL's CVG hub.
 
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:42 am

Based on the original question, ORD will likely lose out to DFW. Despite being a few miles closer, ORD suffers from longer taxi times and more ATC delays so the "average" flight time is probably less at DFW.
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Jetty
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:03 am

LGA is the answer probably.

An that’s because the way the question is formulated it’s much more important that the airport is near the largest population center, than in between population centers.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:26 am

alasizon wrote:
Based on the original question, ORD will likely lose out to DFW. Despite being a few miles closer, ORD suffers from longer taxi times and more ATC delays so the "average" flight time is probably less at DFW.

Taxi time is by definition not flight time. He/She did not ask about shortest block times.
 
D L X
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 am

A333MSPtoAMS wrote:
D L X wrote:
Reading the question again, it really is just asking what is the most central US hub to the land, not the population. It used to be STL, but now it is ORD.

I verified this by using GCMap.com to find the distances between STL, IAH, DFW, DEN, and ORD to 18 representative airports in the mainland US: LAX, SFO, PDX, SEA, PHX, IAH, DFW, STL, ORD, DEN, CVG, ATL, JFK, BOS, MIA, ATL, DCA, and CLT.

The average distance between STL and those 18 airports was 880 mi. Between DEN and those 18 airports was 1054. Between IAH and those 18 airports, it's 1042. Between DFW and those 18 airports, it's 975. Between ORD and those 18 airports, it's 937. ORD wins.


In curious if there is a reason you did not include MSP? It is a major hub in a state that, although slightly more north than Chicago, is actually more central in an east to west direction than any other hub, outside of those in Texas.

Just an oversight. Using MSP as the hub, the average is 1028 miles, still longer than chicago.
 
alasizon
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:03 am

Rdh3e wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Based on the original question, ORD will likely lose out to DFW. Despite being a few miles closer, ORD suffers from longer taxi times and more ATC delays so the "average" flight time is probably less at DFW.

Taxi time is by definition not flight time. He/She did not ask about shortest block times.


Depends on who you ask, block time is certainly used in the industry (and especially to the flying public) as the flight time. On the other hand, you are right that taxi time doesn't count into flying time.
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N5814D
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:16 am

Shortest I've been on (though it was Hub to non Hub) was KDFW-KOKC, which took a whopping 29 or so minutes...Basically throttle up, break ground, throttle back and descend. Hub to Hub, I'm doing KIAH-KORD later this month, which I believe is 2h 22m. Still pretty short, considering. The prior route is AA, the latter, UA. Don't know if that plays in to the equation or not, but I figured I would throw that in.
 
airbazar
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:40 pm

paullam wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Newark.


What makes you think its EWR considering its location on the east coast?

Look at where the majority of the U.S. population lives:

https://www.google.com/search?q=us+popu ... yDJ0jI_lmM:

A hub in the Northeast will have lots and lots of short sub-2hr flights, far off-setting the few 6 and 7 hours flights to the other coast. While a hub in the center of the country will have a very large proportion of 2+ hours flights.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:09 pm

This thread is a good example of statistical analysis and how there are so many ways to go with data, all possibly telling a different story.
 
stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:09 pm

hOMSaR wrote:
I’m not sure I even understand what the OP is asking. What does “shortest average flight time” mean? Does it mean one flight from the hub to the home of every person? Does it mean shortest flight from the hub to the closest airport near a given person? Does that mean areas with more airports (Bay Area, NY area, LA area) weight the average more because you’d have to count flights to OAK/SFO/SJC separately, vs. some place like DEN or SLC which only has one major airport nearby. Are we counting existing flights only (and do multiple frequencies on a route count just once, or does each flight count separately)?


Exactly my point. Not even sure what the hell this whole entire thread is about at this point.
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aeromoe
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:14 pm

DEN (my opinion only)
AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR BY B6 CO CZ DG DL EA EI EN FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI J7 KE KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(1) OZ(2) PA PI PT QQ RM RO RV(1) RV(2) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(2) ZZ 9K
 
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Polot
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:18 pm

The OP is asking which hub has the shortest average flight time when you average all its CONUS flight's (i.e., excluding Hawaii, Alaska, and international flights) flight times.

Example:
Airport A has 2 CONUS flights total- one 5 hours, one 2 hours. The average CONUS flight time at Airport A is 3.5 hrs.
Airport B has 2 CONUS flights total- one 1 hour, one 2 hours. The average CONUS flight time at Airport B is 1.5 hrs.
Airport C has 3 CONUS flights total- one 1 hour, one 2 hours, one 5 hours. The average CONUS flight time at Airport C is 2.67 hrs.

It is almost certainly an Eastern US hub, as there are far more shorter intra-East coast flights than intra-West coast flights to balance out the transcons/near-transcons. Midcontinent hubs probably have the lowest standard deviation, but may not have the lowest average flight time.
Last edited by Polot on Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Flighty
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:24 pm

Well then SLC or PHX is could be the answer. If we are averaging a HUB's flights rather than its centrality within the US travel market.

Actually, cancel that. Western stage lengths are pretty long. I am going to go with LGA or DCA, due to the perimeter rule.
 
Flighty
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:28 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
The central point of US population is somewhere in Missouri. So MEM, CVG, ORD, STL would be the answer.

The reason why there is no hub there is interesting - it is because multiple hubs are allowed, .


Actually, most hubs share two traits (1) central location that maximizes convenient connections and (2) location in large metro area (ie. large O&D traffic). ORD, DFW, EWR, LAX, IAH, IAD, ATL come to mind. SLC and DEN only have the first point.going for them. Why are they hubs? Because of a need for a connection point somewhere in the middle of the country, and nothing else seems to do better. MEM, CVG, and STL aren't needed as hubs because the ones I listed first do a better job and share both population and convenience..


This is true too. But if only 1-2 hubs were in the country, where would they be? STL, PIT, CVG, MEM were effective in years past. Did the proliferation of hubs lead to the large O&D strategy that you described, and lead to the downfall of the transit hub? Or maybe it was just the limited range of early jets, and the relative decline of the rust belt since then.
 
klm617
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:47 pm

And if we had to chose from all the former hubs PIT wins hands down. Also I think PHL is pretty close to much of the population even more than ATL. PIT is closer than two hours to every major population base in the eastern half of the USA
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:53 pm

blockski wrote:
klm617 wrote:
blockski wrote:

It’s pretty close to true, depending on how you precisely define a two hour flight time. Draw a 1000 mile radius around ATL, and you’ll see it includes pretty much all of the US east of Mississippi, plus all of the big cities of the Great Plains that are east of the 100th meridian.

The US population density is heavily skewed towards the east. Almost 80% of the US live in the eastern and central time zones. And ATL is smack dab in the middle.


But it takes more than 2 hours to fly a thousand miles that's the problem 750 is even pushing the 2 hour limit.


It doesn't, really. Here's DL 903, ATL-BOS, in the air (takeoff to landing) for 2:03, flying 1,016 miles.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBOS

Anyway, that figure (ATL is within a 2 hour flight of 80% of the US population) is mostly a marketing phrase, but it's perfectly plausible if not precisely accurate. The point of it isn't to nitpick the assumptions that go into the phrase, but to point out that ATL is uniquely suited to serve a huge portion of the United States. There's a reason it's always been among the busiest airports in the US.


That's not true either there are many cities that could replicate what ATL does it's just that DL chose that location just as US chose CLT. The fact of the matter is the wheels were set in motion many many years ago to create ATL to what it is today and it was used to predominantly connect the entire east coast with Florida back in the day when every airline didn't have traffic rights between the east coast and Florida.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:57 pm

blockski wrote:
klm617 wrote:
blockski wrote:

It’s pretty close to true, depending on how you precisely define a two hour flight time. Draw a 1000 mile radius around ATL, and you’ll see it includes pretty much all of the US east of Mississippi, plus all of the big cities of the Great Plains that are east of the 100th meridian.

The US population density is heavily skewed towards the east. Almost 80% of the US live in the eastern and central time zones. And ATL is smack dab in the middle.


But it takes more than 2 hours to fly a thousand miles that's the problem 750 is even pushing the 2 hour limit.


It doesn't, really. Here's DL 903, ATL-BOS, in the air (takeoff to landing) for 2:03, flying 1,016 miles.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBOS

Anyway, that figure (ATL is within a 2 hour flight of 80% of the US population) is mostly a marketing phrase, but it's perfectly plausible if not precisely accurate. The point of it isn't to nitpick the assumptions that go into the phrase, but to point out that ATL is uniquely suited to serve a huge portion of the United States. There's a reason it's always been among the busiest airports in the US.


Delta 903 is scheduled at 2 hours 30 minutes
Atlanta to Boston

– DL 903



Scheduled

10:25 pm

12:56 am
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...

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