MatthewDB
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:29 pm

To answer the OP's question as asked.
The geographic center of the continental US is: 39.833333,-98.583333
Distance to ORD: 578 miles
Distance to DEN: 324 miles
Distance to DFW: 486 miles.

Am I missing any "major hub?" If not, DEN is the closest to 100% of the population.
 
blockski
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:47 pm

klm617 wrote:
blockski wrote:
klm617 wrote:

But it takes more than 2 hours to fly a thousand miles that's the problem 750 is even pushing the 2 hour limit.


It doesn't, really. Here's DL 903, ATL-BOS, in the air (takeoff to landing) for 2:03, flying 1,016 miles.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBOS

Anyway, that figure (ATL is within a 2 hour flight of 80% of the US population) is mostly a marketing phrase, but it's perfectly plausible if not precisely accurate. The point of it isn't to nitpick the assumptions that go into the phrase, but to point out that ATL is uniquely suited to serve a huge portion of the United States. There's a reason it's always been among the busiest airports in the US.


Delta 903 is scheduled at 2 hours 30 minutes
Atlanta to Boston

– DL 903



Scheduled

10:25 pm

12:56 am


And you'll note that I specifically talked about flying time, not block time. The plane for DL903 was flying in the air last night for 2 hours and 3 minutes.
 
klm617
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:02 pm

blockski wrote:
klm617 wrote:
blockski wrote:

It doesn't, really. Here's DL 903, ATL-BOS, in the air (takeoff to landing) for 2:03, flying 1,016 miles.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KATL/KBOS

Anyway, that figure (ATL is within a 2 hour flight of 80% of the US population) is mostly a marketing phrase, but it's perfectly plausible if not precisely accurate. The point of it isn't to nitpick the assumptions that go into the phrase, but to point out that ATL is uniquely suited to serve a huge portion of the United States. There's a reason it's always been among the busiest airports in the US.


Delta 903 is scheduled at 2 hours 30 minutes
Atlanta to Boston

– DL 903



Scheduled

10:25 pm

12:56 am


And you'll note that I specifically talked about flying time, not block time. The plane for DL903 was flying in the air last night for 2 hours and 3 minutes.


But block time is the universal calculation for getting from point A to point B in the airline industry you can't twist the rules as you need them to fit you agenda. So ATL being within 2 hours of 80% of the population is completely false and on such a fact based forum like this should not even be defended.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
evank516
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:05 pm

klm617 wrote:
neomax wrote:
Recently heard that ATL is within a two-hour flight from 80% of the US population. That got me thinking, which major hub has the shortest average flight time to 100% of the mainland US population?


That can't even be remotely true. Delta is almost on the East coast. Even flight time from Atlanta to NYC is listed at over 2 hours. I think Chicago is better situated.


They make tons of short hops from ATL though. BNA, TYS, HSV, BHM, SAV, AGS, CHS, GSP, CLT, JAX, TLH, VPS, PNS, MOB, DAB, GNV, AVL, CAE, MYR, TYS, TRI, MEM, CVG, CHO, LEX, and SDF are all about an hour or less in flight time (take off to touch down).
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:06 pm

I know why the above poster said EWR. Because it only takes 3 hours to fly to LAX! UA flight 758 departs EWR at 5:55 am and arrives in LAX at 9:18 AM. Just a little over 3 hours.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:31 pm

Believe or not but for us it is Denver. I am going by FROM the hub to an outstation, to a geographical point in the cont. 48 USA, and based on flying time. Not percentage of population or anything.

Why Denver?

Its not about geographic center or anything like that. Its because you need optimal year-round headwind/tailwind to distance ratio. Flying east from Denver gives you the assistance from the jet stream, especially in the winter and you have a better push at different times of years for a longer amount of time on eastbound routes. Westbound you would always want to minimize the time spent in headwinds. However this only works to a point because SLC or the west coast just is too far west to offset the distance needed to cover on eastbound routes. DEN is in that sweet spot where its juuuuuuuust far enough east from the west coast and just far enough west to make it work. Where as ORD other eastern hubs have to cover more ground against the grain of the jet stream headwinds westbound.

It takes almost 1 hour LONGER to fly ORD to LAX than DEN to BOS even though DEN-BOS are within 50nm of eachother. DEN-BOS being slightly farther way.
added together (DEN-LAX + DEN-BOS) is still shorter than (ORD-LAX + ORD-BOS)

There is a reason why DEN is such a valuable hub for us and this is a MAJOR one. Our data internally shows it. Its all about maximizing the headwind/tailwind to distance ratio
DFW is probably AA's best bet as well, however they are further south and east so that complicates the data.
Last edited by OneSexyL1011 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:53 pm, edited 12 times in total.
 
blockski
Posts: 279
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
blockski wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Delta 903 is scheduled at 2 hours 30 minutes
Atlanta to Boston

– DL 903



Scheduled

10:25 pm

12:56 am


And you'll note that I specifically talked about flying time, not block time. The plane for DL903 was flying in the air last night for 2 hours and 3 minutes.


But block time is the universal calculation for getting from point A to point B in the airline industry you can't twist the rules as you need them to fit you agenda. So ATL being within 2 hours of 80% of the population is completely false and on such a fact based forum like this should not even be defended.


1. No, it isn't.
2. We're talking about a marketing factoid. There aren't any 'rules' to twist here.
3. If you want to nitpick the details, fine - that doesn't change the substance. Two hours, two and a half hours; 80%, 75%, whatever. The precision of that statement isn't particularly relevant.

And none of that changes the fundamental point about the benefits of Atlanta's location.
 
Flighty
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:44 pm

According to this,

http://www.kansastravel.org/geographicalcenter.htm

the geographic center of the Lower 48 is Lebanon, Kansas. Closer to MCI, although Lincoln, NE is closer. DEN is the closest "hub."
 
D L X
Posts: 12255
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Polot wrote:
The OP is asking which hub has the shortest average flight time when you average all its CONUS flight's (i.e., excluding Hawaii, Alaska, and international flights) flight times.


No. The OP is asking which hub has the shortest average flight time to all points of CONUS where people live, not just the ones that you can currently reach from it.
 
airbazar
Posts: 8817
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:06 pm

MatthewDB wrote:
To answer the OP's question as asked.
The geographic center of the continental US is: 39.833333,-98.583333
Distance to ORD: 578 miles
Distance to DEN: 324 miles
Distance to DFW: 486 miles.

Am I missing any "major hub?" If not, DEN is the closest to 100% of the population.

Not if you can't fly there. For example, there aren't any flights from DEN to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont. So you can't reach 100% of the population from DEN. That is why the likes of EWR and ORD come up on top. They reach a far greater percentage of the population with a shorter average route.
 
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neomax
Topic Author
Posts: 938
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:17 pm

I guess the big winner here is UA because they have hubs in both ORD and DEN, so they get the best of both worlds!
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:48 pm

airbazar wrote:
MatthewDB wrote:
To answer the OP's question as asked.
The geographic center of the continental US is: 39.833333,-98.583333
Distance to ORD: 578 miles
Distance to DEN: 324 miles
Distance to DFW: 486 miles.

Am I missing any "major hub?" If not, DEN is the closest to 100% of the population.

Not if you can't fly there. For example, there aren't any flights from DEN to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont. So you can't reach 100% of the population from DEN. That is why the likes of EWR and ORD come up on top. They reach a far greater percentage of the population with a shorter average route.


Why is EWR even mentioned? It's far away from many places even if there's a direct flight. And New England population is tiny w.r.t. many places anyway.

And as I said earlier, using mean population center of US (That would included Alaska and Hawaii, but the impact of those two state in the big picture is not that big), ORD would be the closest hub (STL is the closest "major" airport, but it's not a hub).

There's yet another population center, the "median" point, which is the point where half of the people live west (and east) of it, and also north (and south) of it. It's in SW Indiana, closest to CVG (154mi). STL is not that far away from that point either at 162mi.

Of course, there are many ways to measured this (direct flight only? How would connection work then? What about those places that doesn't have a non-stop?), but overall, ORD would be the best bet under most criteria.
 
MatthewDB
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
MatthewDB wrote:
To answer the OP's question as asked.
The geographic center of the continental US is: 39.833333,-98.583333
Distance to ORD: 578 miles
Distance to DEN: 324 miles
Distance to DFW: 486 miles.

Am I missing any "major hub?" If not, DEN is the closest to 100% of the population.

Not if you can't fly there. For example, there aren't any flights from DEN to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont. So you can't reach 100% of the population from DEN. That is why the likes of EWR and ORD come up on top. They reach a far greater percentage of the population with a shorter average route.


One could take two interpretations - the OP meant available flights now or any routing from one airport to another, regardless of present flights.

If it is the interpretation you are going with, the answer is none. No airport serves 100% of the continental United States. There is no airport anywhere in the US that services every airport with passenger service in the US.
 
MatthewDB
Posts: 138
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:03 pm

If we're talking about population center, ORD is the hands down winner. This is from the US Census Bureau

Edit: picture link won't work. They have four maps at this link: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/centersofpop.html
 
stlgph
Posts: 10476
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:09 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
airbazar wrote:
MatthewDB wrote:
To answer the OP's question as asked.
The geographic center of the continental US is: 39.833333,-98.583333
Distance to ORD: 578 miles
Distance to DEN: 324 miles
Distance to DFW: 486 miles.

Am I missing any "major hub?" If not, DEN is the closest to 100% of the population.

Not if you can't fly there. For example, there aren't any flights from DEN to Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont. So you can't reach 100% of the population from DEN. That is why the likes of EWR and ORD come up on top. They reach a far greater percentage of the population with a shorter average route.


Why is EWR even mentioned? It's far away from many places even if there's a direct flight. And New England population is tiny w.r.t. many places anyway.

And as I said earlier, using mean population center of US (That would included Alaska and Hawaii, but the impact of those two state in the big picture is not that big), ORD would be the closest hub (STL is the closest "major" airport, but it's not a hub).

There's yet another population center, the "median" point, which is the point where half of the people live west (and east) of it, and also north (and south) of it. It's in SW Indiana, closest to CVG (154mi). STL is not that far away from that point either at 162mi.

Of course, there are many ways to measured this (direct flight only? How would connection work then? What about those places that doesn't have a non-stop?), but overall, ORD would be the best bet under most criteria.


Why is Newark mentioned? Well, you know, go back and re-read the whole thread and start from the beginning. And I'll say it again, the headline of this thread does not match the opening question in the first post and almost every answer which has subsequently followed has gone off in an entirely different direction, which has nothing to do with how the question was posed, or the fact that averages are involved.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
Posts: 10476
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:19 pm

MatthewDB wrote:
If we're talking about population center, ORD is the hands down winner. This is from the US Census Bureau

Edit: picture link won't work. They have four maps at this link: https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/centersofpop.html


Chicago wouldn't be the "hands down" winner, if you're going off of average time based on the positioning of that cute little green + and given the population total to the east, and the time needed simply to reach that population.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:21 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
LGA is the answer probably.

An that’s because the way the question is formulated it’s much more important that the airport is near the largest population center, than in between population centers.


No, that's not true. It's about the shortest flight time from that airport to any point in the mainland USA. What's so difficult about any point?

Some people come up with population statistics, but that's all irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many people live there, it's about how fast you can get there from the chosen airport.

That's why airports at the sides of the country can never be the answer. After all, from side to side takes far longer than from center to side. The hub needs to be in the center of the USA so that even the furthest outskirts of the country on all sides can be reached within reasonable time.

This map shows you where the center of the USA is located:

Image

That's somewhere in Kansas, but there's no hub there. Closest hub from there would probably be Denver, although Kansas City isn't that far either. But I think Denver is closest.

Now measure the distances between Denver and the furthest outskirts of mainland USA.
Denver - Presque Isle 1889 miles
Denver - Miami 1709 miles
Denver - San Diego 852 miles
Denver - Bellingham 1075 miles

The furthest point from Denver is Presque Isle, anywhere else in mainland USA is closer than that. Now compare that to Kansas City.
Kansas City - Presque Isle 1436 miles
Kansas City - Miami 1252 miles
Kansas City - San Diego 1334 miles
Kansas City - Bellingham 1522 miles

Turns out Kansas City is closer to anywhere in the USA than Denver. However, Kansas City is not a hub. Closest it comes to that is being a focus city for Southwest.


Again, we're some of us are talking about population statistics because that was the original question posed in the first post of this entire thread.

This is why some of us aced the LSAT.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:22 pm

Jetty wrote:
LGA is the answer probably.

An that’s because the way the question is formulated it’s much more important that the airport is near the largest population center, than in between population centers.


No, that's not true. It's about the shortest flight time from that airport to any point in the mainland USA. What's so difficult about any point?

Some people come up with population statistics, but that's all irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many people live there, it's about how fast you can get there from the chosen airport.

That's why airports at the sides of the country can never be the answer. After all, from side to side takes far longer than from center to side. The hub needs to be in the center of the USA so that even the furthest outskirts of the country on all sides can be reached within reasonable time.

This map shows you where the center of the USA is located:

Image

That's somewhere in Kansas, but there's no hub there. Closest hub from there would probably be Denver, although Kansas City isn't that far either. But I think Denver is closest.

Now measure the distances between Denver and the furthest outskirts of mainland USA.
Denver - Presque Isle 1889 miles
Denver - Miami 1709 miles
Denver - San Diego 852 miles
Denver - Bellingham 1075 miles

The furthest point from Denver is Presque Isle, anywhere else in mainland USA is closer than that. Now compare that to Kansas City.
Kansas City - Presque Isle 1436 miles
Kansas City - Miami 1252 miles
Kansas City - San Diego 1334 miles
Kansas City - Bellingham 1522 miles

Turns out Kansas City is closer to anywhere in the USA than Denver. However, Kansas City is not a hub. Closest it comes to that is being a focus city for Southwest.
 
Jetty
Posts: 562
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Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
No, that's not true. It's about the shortest flight time from that airport to any point in the mainland USA. What's so difficult about any point?

What's so difficult about reading the actual 1st post that stated the question (instead of the altered title)? :sarcastic:

Just to remind you, the question is: which major hub has the shortest average flight time to 100% of the mainland US population?

Thus more populated areas weigh heavier than little populated areas, and very much so. Assume for arguments sake that there were only people living in New York and Los Angeles, with 11 million in NY and 10 million in LA. Then the answer to the question wouldn't be "almost halfway", but "in NY". As 10 million people * 6 hours is less than (10*3) + (11*3). That same principle applies to the actual US population as well, hence the answer is somewhere in the North-East close to where most people live.

Some people come up with population statistics, but that's all irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many people live there, it's about how fast you can get there from the chosen airport.

It's fine if that's the question you want answered, but you could consider opening a new thread for that instead of turning a different question into your own.
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Which major US hub has the shortest average flight time to any point in the mainland US

Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:23 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
No, that's not true. It's about the shortest flight time from that airport to any point in the mainland USA. What's so difficult about any point?

Because it's not what the OP asked in the OP. Yes, that's what it says in the THREAD TITLE, but in the post, he asked about reaching 100% of the mainland population. How many people live in the Mojave Desert? In the Badlands? In rocky Colorado? In Acadia National Forest? If no one lives there, it's not a point in the mainland US that should be counted because it isn't population.

PatrickZ80 wrote:
This map shows you where the center of the USA is located:

Image

That's somewhere in Kansas, but there's no hub there. Closest hub from there would probably be Denver, although Kansas City isn't that far either. But I think Denver is closest.


There are a couple problems using that map. One, it's a projection, not a globe, so there will be great circle distortion. Second, those lines are actually rather arbitrary -- those are not the actual corners of the country in any objective sense because the country is not a regular shape. It's highly IRregular. With that said, if the question is "what hub is closest to every point in the continental-US, that map is probably good enough to find it." But if the question is "what hub has the shortest average distance to 100% of the mainland-US population," it's Chicago, STL if you call it a hub.

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