LJ
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Re: BeNeLux Aviation # 7

Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:52 pm

The monthly traffic figures for Dutch Airports are this month without the figures of Groningen Airport as these haven't been delivered to CBS.

November

Number of passengers
AMS: 5,170,757 (+10.15%)
EIN: 401,036 (+11.63%)
MST: 3,222 (-/- 50.32%)
RTM: 70,941 (-/- 24.42%)

I'm a little bit puzzled by the figures of MST and RTM. It seems that something went wrong at CBS as the reduction is considerably for the two airports.

Cargo in tons
AMS: 147,321 (-/- 1.21%)
MST: 11,955 (+79.83%)

The increase at MST is largely due to the movement of cargo flights from AMS to MST.

Number of movements
AMS: 39,513 (+4.68%)
EIN: 2,617 (+5.61%)
MST: 1,122 (-/-27.61%)
RTM: 3,055 (-/- 13.80%)
 
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SQ22
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BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:26 pm

With the new year its time for a new thread.

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1352171
 
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luchtzak
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:09 pm

In the past year, Brussels Airport received 24.8 million passengers, an absolute record in the history of the airport. Last year, the records for both day and month were also shattered, both in the month of July. Cargo closes the year with 536,000 tonnes of cargo, the highest cargo volume handled by Brussels Airport in the past decade.

http://www.aviation24.be/airports/bruss ... s-in-2017/
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sf260
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:19 pm

2015 - 2017 growth (2 years in order to minimise the effect of the March 22 terror attacks):
BRU: +5,6%
AMS: +17,1%

:shock:

(sometimes it feels so humble to be Belgian)
 
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luchtzak
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:22 pm

sf260 wrote:
2015 - 2017 growth (2 years in order to minimise the effect of the March 22 terror attacks):
BRU: +5,6%
AMS: +17,1%

:shock:

(sometimes it feels so humble to be Belgian)


But at Brussels Airport there is still stretch, not the case in Amsterdam...
Swim - bike - run - finish! And a flight attendant ;-)
 
sf260
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:41 am

luchtzak wrote:
But at Brussels Airport there is still stretch, not the case in Amsterdam...

To be honest, is there? With Belgian politics?
At AMS, the number of movements is (more or less) capped for the next couple of years, but it doesn't say much about the number of passengers. That still has a ton of potential growth. Imo, more than BRU.
 
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TOGA10
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:06 pm

There is a petition in favour of growing Maastricht Aachen Airport, that has been put online recently. The main thought is to give the pro airport group of voters a voice, instead of the constant negative media attention. I do not have any personal connections to this group, nor am I trying to start a political debate, but I just wanted to share this here. Link is in Dutch only, and to sign it you have to be living there as well.
https://groeimaastrichtairport.petities.nl
edited for spelling
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
Jetty
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:26 am

luchtzak wrote:
But at Brussels Airport there is still stretch, not the case in Amsterdam...

Depends on the timeframe you use, AMS is building a new terminal and pier for a reason and the cap isn’t because of infrastructural limitations but artificial and to be increased in 2 years (to how much we don’t know yet).

While BRU isn’t limited now, is there any room to add a runway to allow for more than 2 to be used simultaneously? AMS can still add 2 to allow 5 to be used at the same time.
 
mict
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:05 am

Is BRU at capacity during the morning rush in terminal B? I think I read that somewhere but I am not sure now.
 
Blerg
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:25 am

From next month Transavia will double its frequencies between AMS and BEG from 3 to 6.
The schedule is all over the place probably due to slot restraints.
 
330lover
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am

BRU announced a new Chinese destination, Shenzhen.
Operated 2 x w by Hainan Airlines.

https://www.brusselsairport.be/pressroo ... -shenzhen/
https://www.brusselsairport.be/pressroo ... -shenzhen/
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
 
mict
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:13 am

330lover wrote:
BRU announced a new Chinese destination, Shenzhen.
Operated 2 x w by Hainan Airlines.

https://www.brusselsairport.be/pressroo ... -shenzhen/
https://www.brusselsairport.be/pressroo ... -shenzhen/


Wow that's a surprise! So we will have HKG and SZX starting within 5 days of each other, congrats BRU.
 
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luchtzak
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:10 pm

Meanwhile no news on Air Belgium ....
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LJ
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:38 pm

December traffic figures for all commercial airports except Den Helder

December

Number of passengers
AMS: 4,975,525 (+4.80%)
EIN: 372,669 (+4.84%)
GRQ: 11,920 (+20.46%)
MST: 3,889 (-/-43.45)
RTM: 73,985 (-/-19.4%)

Cargo in tons)
AMS: 142,703 (-/- 6.37%)
MST: 11,209 (+111.01)

MST is clearly winning business from AMS due to the slot issue.

Movements
AMS: 37,778 (+0.61)
EIN: 2,500 (+1.63%)
GRQ: 1,305 (-/-9.12)
MST: 623 (-/-60.72%)
RTM: 2,273 (-/-25.48%)
 
LJ
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:15 pm

For those interested hereby the annual ranking of commercial airports in the BeNeLux. Note that I couldn't find the 2017 traffic figures for Den Helder and thus they're ranked last.

Number of passengers
1. AMS : 68,400,387 (+7.67%)
2. BRU: 24,783,911 (+13.59%)
3. CRL: 7,698,767 (+5.41%)
4. EIN: 5,701,220 (+19.27%)
5. LUX: 3,599,390 (+19.07%)
6. RTM: 1,732.692 (+5.40%)
7. OST: 365,345 (-/-16.01%)
8. ANR: 273,130 (-/-1.15%)
9. GRQ: 201.786 (+32.36%)
10 LGG: 192,000 (-/-49.74%)
11. MST: 167,544 (-/-5.11%)
No data for DHR

Liege plunged from its previous 8th position to the 10th as the number of passengers decreased by almost 50%. Moreover, apart from the Brussels airports, none of the Belgian airports recorded passenger growth. Quite the opposite in The Netherlands where the regional airports showed passenger growth with the exception of Maastricht. Luxembourg showed, together with Eindhoven, the strongest growth of the large airports in the BeNeLux.

Cargo in tons
1. AMS: 1,778,168 (+4.96%
2. LUX: 897,127 (+9.27%)
3. LGG: 716,988 (+8.54%)
4. BRU: 535,634 (+8.29%)
5. MST: 86,770 (+43.47%)
6. OST: 23.369 (+5.15%)
7. RTM: 14 (-/-82.93%)
Other airports don't report cargo

Strong growth in cargo (only a decline in RTM, but that airport doesn't handle much cargo traffic). Masstricht rebounded, mostly due to restrictions at AMS (last few months), though recovery was visble without the help of the AMS slot issues.

Number of movemens
1. AMS: 514,301 (+3.55%)
2. BRU: 237,888 (+6.35%)
3. LUX: 89,944 (+4.10%)
4. CRL: 78,366 (+4.44%)
5. RTM: 49,950 (-/-4.91%)
6. ANR: 37,511 (-/-9.40%)
7. LGG: 37,199
8. EIN: 36,487 (+11.72%)
9. GRQ: 27,005 (+9.13%)
10. OST: 22,708 (-/-6.10%)
11 MST: 18,359 (12.71%)
No data from Den Helder Airport

Just to pre-empt any confusion, the number of movements at AMS is indeed higher than 500,000. This is due to the fact that the limit of 500,000 movements relates to commercial aviation only. The number of movements by commercial aviation was 496,739 in 2017 (thus 3,261 slotsbelow the limit). Note that all figures contain all movements and thus not only those of commercial aviation.
 
sf260
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:41 pm

LJ wrote:
Moreover, apart from the Brussels airports, none of the Belgian airports recorded passenger growth.

That is no surprise as Brussels Airport was the subject of terrorist attack in 2016 and the airport was subsequently closed for a couple of weeks. A lot of BRU-based airlines operated temporarily from regional airports, artificially rising their passenger numbers in 2016. This explains the big growth of BRU and the decline of regional airports in 2017.
 
SCQ83
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:47 pm

Ryanair will start flights from Brussels to Amman, Jordan.

I assume those will be from Charleroi? There are currently no flights between Belgium and Jordan.

Edit: it is Zaventem apparently.
 
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airkas1
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:30 pm

In April, May and June, GRQ will be connected to IBZ. It's a weekly flight, on Saturdays only.

Source: http://www.rtvdrenthe.nl/nieuws/131370/ ... naar-Ibiza
 
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TOGA10
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:38 pm

Transavia has announced a strike for the coming school holiday after talks during the last 14 months with management has ended today, when the deadline set by the union has expired.
Main items included roster stability, leave management and a slight pay increase.
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
blueflyer
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:34 pm

DHL has officially opened its new hub at BRU. The new installations replace the existing ones and are at the opposite end of the airport. The new BRU hub is the 5th largest in the DHL network by capacity. To accommodate restrictions on night-time flying, DHL installed high-speed equipment to complete sorts before night restrictions come into effect, and will also operate day-time flights out of the hub.

The BRU sort used to be DHL's largest hub, but was relocated to LEJ in 2008 due to the aforementioned restrictions on night-flying. BRU was demoted to a regional hub and retained a small sort capacity, however activity has picked up significantly in the past few years, with flights to other major hubs such as CVG, and the sort capacities were maxed out.

http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/dhl-e ... ver-e140m/
MAGag
 
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Dutchy
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:20 am

This the new facade of the terminal at Maastricht Aaken Airport:

Image

They expect the traffic to grow from the current 200.000 passengers to 700.000,

In Dutch: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... it-te-zien
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Drucocu
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:24 pm

An internal NS document states that there's plans towards changing the twice a day Thalys Amsterdam-Lille to Amsterdam-AMS-Rotterdam-Antwerp-Brussels-CDG-Marne la Vallee Chessy / Disney.

Though not directly aviation related, it will bring some highly needed other fast travel options from NL to CDG instead of the KL/AF(/HV to ORY) monopoly by air, and the so far unpractical / hard to book Thalys/TGV transfer in Brussels.

Source (in Dutch):
https://www.looopings.nl/weblog/9624/Pl ... Paris.html
 
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Eindhoven
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:04 pm

That fits into the plans for making LEY unneeded by adding more fast train connections out of AMS to replace the short flights to nearby airports.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... rbindingen

If you can do AMS-CDG by train then you don't have to fly it and that frees up slots at AMS. Unfortunately EIN is being overlooked here. No flights and no train EIN-PAR. I think A5 could do well on CDG-EIN or ORY-EIN.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:57 pm

Jean-Marc Janaillac CEO of Air France-KLM: "KLM will get the seven A350 in 2020." The Joon A350's will come from Air France, not KLM.

In Dutch: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... rbus-a350s
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Jetty
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
"KLM will get the seven A350 in 2020."

In the article it says from 2020 on.
 
LJ
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:44 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
That fits into the plans for making LEY unneeded by adding more fast train connections out of AMS to replace the short flights to nearby airports.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... rbindingen

If you can do AMS-CDG by train then you don't have to fly it and that frees up slots at AMS.


It's only twice daily. How many slots will that free up?

Eindhoven wrote:
Unfortunately EIN is being overlooked here. No flights and no train EIN-PAR. I think A5 could do well on CDG-EIN or ORY-EIN.


Why would someone fly EIN-PAR? Travel time by car is around 4 hours and thus very competing. Moreover, EIN-PArR never has been profitable (though I agree that the economic situation at the time was different)..
 
blueflyer
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:49 pm

LJ wrote:

Eindhoven wrote:
Unfortunately EIN is being overlooked here. No flights and no train EIN-PAR. I think A5 could do well on CDG-EIN or ORY-EIN.


Why would someone fly EIN-PAR? Travel time by car is around 4 hours and thus very competing. Moreover, EIN-PArR never has been profitable (though I agree that the economic situation at the time was different)..

For the same reason that some choose to fly between CDG and BRU, because they'd rather fly a short hop to/from a long-haul flight than drive with a sizeable amount of luggage at the beginning/end of a long-haul flight. Or because their employers buy plane and train tickets for employees before their trips, but reimburse car mileages weeks or months after their trips.

Bottom line, there are plenty of "why's" the question is always, are there enough to make it commercially viable.
MAGag
 
r2rho
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:07 pm

There is a petition in favour of growing Maastricht Aachen Airport, that has been put online recently. The main thought is to give the pro airport group of voters a voice, instead of the constant negative media attention. I do not have any personal connections to this group, nor am I trying to start a political debate, but I just wanted to share this here. Link is in Dutch only, and to sign it you have to be living there as well.
https://groeimaastrichtairport.petities.nl

Makes sense; MST is well located in terms of catchment area, also for Germany.
EIN is another airport which IMO has potential and should be further developed.
In general, de-centralizing by attracting more non-transfer traffic to other NL airports would help free up slots at AMS.
 
andrej
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:21 pm

RYR announced new route from BTS to EIN. Initially - from June - it will be 2x weekly and from Octover 3x weekly.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:27 am

andrej wrote:
RYR announced new route from BTS to EIN. Initially - from June - it will be 2x weekly and from Octover 3x weekly.


That's not the only new route they announced from Eindhoven.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... -eindhoven

Flights to Bratislava will start in june, Athens in september, Agadir and Riga in october. On the Eindhoven - Athens route they face competition from Transavia, the other three destinations are new from Eindhoven.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:59 pm

AMS numbers 2017, between brackits the % change yoy:

KLM: 32.862.599 (7,6%)
easyJet: 5.554.115 (3,8%)
Transavia: 5.249.403 (11,7%)
Delta Air Lines: 2.821.932 (5,6%)
TUIfly: 1.970.181 (3,4%)
Vueling: 1.534.549 (14,3%)
British Airways: 1.327.119 (5,0%)
Air France: 1.271.213 (8,2%)
Lufthansa: 832.026 (1,9%)
Flybe: 781.498 (6,3%)
Rest: 14.310.790 (9,1%)

De Top-5 Europese bestemmingen vanaf Schiphol in aantallen passagiers ziet er als volgt uit:

Top five European routes from AMS:
Londen Heathrow: 1.688.997
Barcelona: 1.361.334
Parijs Charles de Gaulle 1.263.470
Rome 1.111.831
Dublin 1.080.715

Top five intercontinental routes from AMS:
Dubai 902.591
Atlanta 802.550
New York 682.031
Toronto 569.498
Tel Aviv 566.095

497.000 movements and 68,5 million (only 17 million Dutchmen) passages.

Sourse: https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... ol-in-2017
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
SCQ83
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:18 pm

AMS must be the only major European hub for which ATL is their busiest US airport. That New York is only JFK or the city code?

I am quite surprised to see Vueling has more PAX than BA or AF! Is AMS a VY base?
 
SCQ83
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:28 pm

Eindhoven wrote:
Unfortunately EIN is being overlooked here. No flights and no train EIN-PAR. I think A5 could do well on CDG-EIN or ORY-EIN.

Why would someone fly EIN-PAR? Travel time by car is around 4 hours and thus very competing. Moreover, EIN-PArR never has been profitable (though I agree that the economic situation at the time was different)..

For the same reason that some choose to fly between CDG and BRU, because they'd rather fly a short hop to/from a long-haul flight than drive with a sizeable amount of luggage at the beginning/end of a long-haul flight. Or because their employers buy plane and train tickets for employees before their trips, but reimburse car mileages weeks or months after their trips.

Bottom line, there are plenty of "why's" the question is always, are there enough to make it commercially viable.


It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I just checked and EIN does not have a single legacy flying there! 100% charter / low-cost. That means that people is used to drive/train to AMS.

Why would AFKL "waste" slots and planes shuttling people to CDG when they make them fly non-stop from AMS (or even connecting AMS-CDG?). It doesn't make a lot of sense to me when there is no "hub" competition at EIN.

Intuitively, I feel the best option for EIN would be a Lufthansa connection to MUC (or FRA). For MUC, it gets an EIN-MUC non-stop (nobody flies that route; I reckon Transavia flew that when they had a base in MUC) and an useful hub that complements AMS well. Lufthansa has been lately expanding quite aggressively in secondary airports all over Europe (from Timisoara to Pamplona), so I don't think EIN would be such an odd route.
 
LJ
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:42 am

blueflyer wrote:
For the same reason that some choose to fly between CDG and BRU, because they'd rather fly a short hop to/from a long-haul flight than drive with a sizeable amount of luggage at the beginning/end of a long-haul flight. Or because their employers buy plane and train tickets for employees before their trips, but reimburse car mileages weeks or months after their trips.

Bottom line, there are plenty of "why's" the question is always, are there enough to make it commercially viable.


There is a big difference between BRU and EIN. The reason why SN flies CDG-BRU is to get the transfer pax to Africa. This market is huge (and commercially interesting) and thus can support a twice daily BRU-CDG (or it ihree times daily?). EIN is not a big market. I seriously doubt there is any commerical viable reason to fly EIN-CDG. Especially as the business market is served perfectly from AMS (at least from AF/KL perspective). Moreover, would this shift passengers away from AMS?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 am

SCQ83 wrote:
AMS must be the only major European hub for which ATL is their busiest US airport. That New York is only JFK or the city code?

I am quite surprised to see Vueling has more PAX than BA or AF! Is AMS a VY base?


The answer is, of course, Delta, they want to feed their hub.

My biggest surprise was: Parijs Charles de Gaulle 1.263.470. They should just solve this with a train connection, much better. It will free up slots at AMS. It should not take more time for an average transfer passenger, door to door.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Eindhoven
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:39 am

LJ wrote:
There is a big difference between BRU and EIN. The reason why SN flies CDG-BRU is to get the transfer pax to Africa. This market is huge (and commercially interesting) and thus can support a twice daily BRU-CDG (or it ihree times daily?). EIN is not a big market. I seriously doubt there is any commerical viable reason to fly EIN-CDG. Especially as the business market is served perfectly from AMS (at least from AF/KL perspective). Moreover, would this shift passengers away from AMS?


That is wrong! EIN is a fast growing market and the airport cannot keep up.

AF/KL may think they serve this market from AMS but that is not true. Most people from this region hate AMS, it is too far away and too big. BRU and DUS are better options. The big mistake is they think AMS is the airport for the whole Netherlands but that is not true.

SCQ83 wrote:
I am quite surprised to see Vueling has more PAX than BA or AF! Is AMS a VY base?


Yes, AMS is a VY base. EIN has had VY service to BCN too but they quit. They could not compete with HV.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:44 am

Eindhoven wrote:
That is wrong! EIN is a fast growing market and the airport cannot keep up.

AF/KL may think they serve this market from AMS but that is not true. Most people from this region hate AMS, it is too far away and too big. BRU and DUS are better options. The big mistake is they think AMS is the airport for the whole Netherlands but that is not true.


When do you think a legacy carrier will start servicing EIN? I think Turkish Airlines might be the first, they have a good connection the rest of the world and perhaps BA might feel they have a shot also. I think Delta would be an outside chance: Atlanta or New York.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:07 am

There's also talks about Lufthansa starting Munich - Eindhoven, but not on short term. All we know is that they're monitoring the demand.

https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/ ... phol-tegen

For them it would only be an alternative to the growth they cannot realize at Amsterdam due to lack of slots. They're forgetting that Eindhoven has it's own catchment area that is quite different from Amsterdam. Amsterdam mainly caters to the west of the Netherlands, whilst for the south and east Eindhoven is more convenient.
 
SCQ83
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:10 am

Dutchy wrote:
When do you think a legacy carrier will start servicing EIN? I think Turkish Airlines might be the first, they have a good connection the rest of the world and perhaps BA might feel they have a shot also. I think Delta would be an outside chance: Atlanta or New York.


Delta will never happen for obvious reasons. Why dilute the AMS hub.

BA I can't see it either. BA flies to very business markets (read AMS) on multiple daily or very holiday markets (for British) on low frequencies. EIN is not in any of those two categories.

I can see three logical legacy carriers:

- Lufthansa to MUC (already discussed)
- Turkish to IST (new airport when opened)
- TAP to LIS. TP has been expanding quite a lot lately and they don't fear flying to multiple airports in the same region. For instance, they are among the few legacies flying to both CGN and DUS, and to three London airports (LHR, LGW, LCY).
 
LJ
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Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 pm

Somwhat late but hereby the traffic figures for the NeLux airports

January 2018

Number of passengers
AMS: 4,908,989 (+7.66%)
EIN: 398,089 (+13.95%)
LUX: 240,298 (16.87%)
RTM: 89,021 (-/-10.80)
GRQ: 11,514 (+19.74%)
MST: 3,283 (-46.14%)

Cargo in tons
AMS: 135,246 (-/-1.73%)
LUX: 72,958 (+16.09%)
MST: 7,729 (+164.42%)

The loss at AMS is MST's gain.

Movements
AMS: 38,370 (+4.42%)
LUX: 5,644 (+11.56%)
RTM: 2,868 (-/-11.48%)
EIN: 2,747 (+7.94%)
GRQ: 2,004 (+2.09%)
MST: 920 (-/-13.86%)

I'll try to add the Belgian airports as of next month to get a complete picture. Unfortunately Den Helder airport doesn't publish traffic figures (at least not on their website) thus this airport lacks in this overview.


Source:
- Dutch airports: CBS
- Luxembourg: Luxembourg Airport
 
User avatar
TOGA10
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:49 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:03 am

Dutchy wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
That is wrong! EIN is a fast growing market and the airport cannot keep up.

AF/KL may think they serve this market from AMS but that is not true. Most people from this region hate AMS, it is too far away and too big. BRU and DUS are better options. The big mistake is they think AMS is the airport for the whole Netherlands but that is not true.


When do you think a legacy carrier will start servicing EIN? I think Turkish Airlines might be the first, they have a good connection the rest of the world and perhaps BA might feel they have a shot also. I think Delta would be an outside chance: Atlanta or New York.

What about EK? They have the capacity to try it, although it would be a bit heavy to start. But considering they fly to NCL, GLA and EDI with triples, all within driving distance of each other, I could see them trying something.
Other than that, BA would make sense. Don't forgot there is a lot high tech industry in that area (ASML to name one), where lots of money is made, so it's not solely a VFR market.
The natural function of the wing is to soar upwards and carry that which is heavy up to the place where dwells the race of gods. More than any other thing that pertains to the body it partakes of the nature of the divine. - Plato
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5213
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:11 am

EK would be a massive gamble indeed. I can see TK do this with two or three flights a day, the same for BA, with the right connections to the rest of the world, why not? Tech industry is indeed huge, it is/was one of the premium locations for the high-tech industry in the world.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
LJ
Topic Author
Posts: 4439
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:53 am

TOGA10 wrote:
What about EK? They have the capacity to try it, although it would be a bit heavy to start. But considering they fly to NCL, GLA and EDI with triples, all within driving distance of each other, I could see them trying something.Other than that, BA would make sense. Don't forgot there is a lot high tech industry in that area (ASML to name one), where lots of money is made, so it's not solely a VFR market.


I doubt the airport want these widebodies. They consume too much apron space. Moreover, it's not the goal of Schiphol Group to attract legacy airlines, it's their LCC airport.

SCQ83 wrote:
Delta will never happen for obvious reasons. Why dilute the AMS hub.


It will dilute BRU, which is nearby. However, they need BRU as it caters for the Northern France and Southern Dutch market and protects them against defection to Star.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3859
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:08 am

Thorsten Dirks, Eurowings CEO, visited Brussels Airlines this morning and, for the most part, didn't have much to say that wasn't known already. It was yet again an exercise in patience, as Lufty doesn't seem to have much of a plan yet (or if they do, they're very good liars). it's starting to sound as though Lufthansa bought Brussels Airlines because it was cheap...

(yes, that was sarcasm)

There were, I think, two interesting tidbits still:
-Brussels Airlines loses money across all continents where it operates except in Africa (it doesn't lose money on every destination it operates except Africa, as I've seen it claimed elsewhere). It is (only) a bit surprising that Europe is a loss, far less so about North America and Asia/India.
-Lufty is slowly reaching the conclusion that Brussels Airlines has such expertise in Africa that it may be asked to drive African sales and network strategy for the entire group. I guess not every back-office function will be relocated to Germany then.
MAGag
 
Blerg
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:12 am

If SN Brussels is losing money on all of its European flights, why would replacing them with Eurowings change anything? I wasn't under the impression their costs were that high.

The only way I see EW making money is if they seriously downsize SN's BRU network and keep flying to key markets that could (eventually) become profitable. If they end up doing that then is it safe to assume SN's North American network would be cut?
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 675
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:23 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:35 am

Dutchy wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
AMS must be the only major European hub for which ATL is their busiest US airport. That New York is only JFK or the city code?

I am quite surprised to see Vueling has more PAX than BA or AF! Is AMS a VY base?


The answer is, of course, Delta, they want to feed their hub.

My biggest surprise was: Parijs Charles de Gaulle 1.263.470. They should just solve this with a train connection, much better. It will free up slots at AMS. It should not take more time for an average transfer passenger, door to door.



It’s not gonna happen: 3,5 hours travel time with the added inconvenience of having to push your luggage to/from the station in Amsterdam and wait for a train in less comfortable circumstances than in an airport is just not convenient compared compared to having a straight-through journey.
 
LJ
Topic Author
Posts: 4439
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:02 pm

Blerg wrote:
The only way I see EW making money is if they seriously downsize SN's BRU network and keep flying to key markets that could (eventually) become profitable. If they end up doing that then is it safe to assume SN's North American network would be cut?


You do realise that some of the profits come from connecting pax from North America? Moreover, profitability is not the sole reason to keep a flight. LH doesn't want the Belgian passengers to go to Skyteam and thus uses SN to make life for AF/KL more difficult. Not to mention that it makes life for AF/KL even worse by having a good alternative for those who live in Southern parts of The Netherlands or Northern France.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 2120
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:03 pm

vinniewinnie wrote:
It’s not gonna happen: 3,5 hours travel time with the added inconvenience of having to push your luggage to/from the station in Amsterdam and wait for a train in less comfortable circumstances than in an airport is just not convenient compared compared to having a straight-through journey.


You do realise that, since both Amsterdam and Paris Charles de Gaulle have a train station at the airport, the inconvenience is a lot less. The train goes straight from airport to airport, so it is a straight through journey even if one part is by plane and the other part is by train. You don't have to go from the airport to the city to catch the train, the train stops at the airport.

Having to push your luggage? Yes, but you'd have to check it in and collect it anyway so what does it matter? It could be that you start your trip in Amsterdam and you fly from Charles de Gaulle. What does it matter if you take your luggage to the counter in Amsterdam or in Paris? Alternatively, it could be that your final destination is Paris but you land at Amsterdam. What does it matter if you collect your luggage from the belt in Amsterdam or in Paris?
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 2120
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:12 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Tech industry is indeed huge, it is/was one of the premium locations for the high-tech industry in the world.


Speaking of that, I've read somewhere that Brainport Eindhoven does a lot of business with Helsinki, yet no airline flies Eindhoven - Helsinki. On the other hand Amsterdam - Helsinki is served by no less than 4 airlines (Finnair, KLM, Norwegian and Transavia). That got me thinking, wouldn't it make sense for Transavia to shift their Helsinki flights from Amsterdam to Eindhoven? I'm specially looking at Transavia since out of these 4 airlines they're the only one with presence in Eindhoven. It wouldn't be that odd since they serve Copenhagen and Stockholm from Eindhoven too, and they can capture a lot of business demand on that route. The business demand on the Amsterdam - Helsinki route can be served by their parent airline KLM.
 
Blerg
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: BeNeLux aviation - 2018

Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:16 pm

LJ wrote:
Blerg wrote:
The only way I see EW making money is if they seriously downsize SN's BRU network and keep flying to key markets that could (eventually) become profitable. If they end up doing that then is it safe to assume SN's North American network would be cut?


You do realise that some of the profits come from connecting pax from North America? Moreover, profitability is not the sole reason to keep a flight. LH doesn't want the Belgian passengers to go to Skyteam and thus uses SN to make life for AF/KL more difficult. Not to mention that it makes life for AF/KL even worse by having a good alternative for those who live in Southern parts of The Netherlands or Northern France.


Well, SN Brussels only recently launched North American flights if I am not mistaken. LH might realize that this is an expensive strategy and that keeping these flights simply isn't worth it. I guess only time will tell.

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