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SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:13 am

The continuity of Panama City Albrook in the future has been questioned many times on this board before.
PTY, BLB and PAC... One could think slightly exagerated the usage of three airports running simoultaneously in Panama City and taking into account the aggresive expansion plans at PTY.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:52 am

SJOtoLIR wrote:
The continuity of Panama City Albrook in the future has been questioned many times on this board before.
PTY, BLB and PAC... One could think slightly exagerated the usage of three airports running simoultaneously in Panama City and taking into account the aggresive expansion plans at PTY.

Regards.


Well, most likely when the 3rd line of the metro system is up and running, PAC will be shutdown. The lands where PAC are located have more valuable uses (port expansion, comercial, etc), than the value of an airport. Most likely all the PAC traffic will be moved to BLB.

BLB is a low cost airport. So, it has a future. That is why there is an expansion program to allow in the first phase, handling up to 5 simultaneous NB.

PTY has been expanding so that it can keep up with CM's growth. Also, if it does not expand, new airlines can't start new flights. Also, PTY has been running over 100% capacity for the last 5 of years.

Even when the T2 comes online, most likely they will need to start the third runway expansion and the T3, otherwise they will reach 100% capacity in less than 8 to 10 years.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:12 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Well, most likely when the 3rd line of the metro system is up and running, PAC will be shutdown. The lands where PAC are located have more valuable uses (port expansion, comercial, etc), than the value of an airport. Most likely all the PAC traffic will be moved to BLB.

BLB is a low cost airport. So, it has a future. That is why there is an expansion program to allow in the first phase, handling up to 5 simultaneous NB.

PTY has been expanding so that it can keep up with CM's growth. Also, if it does not expand, new airlines can't start new flights. Also, PTY has been running over 100% capacity for the last 5 of years.

Even when the T2 comes online, most likely they will need to start the third runway expansion and the T3, otherwise they will reach 100% capacity in less than 8 to 10 years.
The moment the 4th bridge over the canal is completed, PAC will definitely be closed (re-located) to BLB.
BLB might remain as a domestic and low cost airport, but IMHO, Tocumen (who manages BLB) will try to move some of the low cost airline operations to ONX and RIH, as BLB land will become more attractive for non-aviation activities and taken away from the airport.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:34 pm

LTU932 wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
World Youth Encounter organisers study use of Albrook PAC.
https://metrolibre.com/index.php/nacionales/115348-cerrarian-el-aeropuerto-de-albrook-para-la-jmj-en-2019
Next January, Panama will host Pope Francis and there's a chance, if PAC is needed, PAC will be closed several weeks.
Why close PAC for several weeks if the Pope is gonna be in the country for only a few days? I read the article but I still don't get it.

That being said, how do you think traffic is gonna be handled during the closure of PAC? Will flights to PAC divert to BLB, perhaps split traffic up between BLB and PTY, or just go with PTY altogether?


Most likely, the newspaper is saying that they are looking for locations where they can hold the Panama 2019 World Youth Day. The first possibility is La Cinta Costera. The second possibility is to use PAC. Which in part is not a totally crazy idea. It is close to the Albrook bus station and Metro station. Thus it should help logistics.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:05 pm

Copa officially launches PTY-FOR.

http://www.focus.jor.br/economia/voo-li ... -destinos/

And it looks like PTY-SSA as well, according to the last sentence in the first paragraph of the following news:

http://diariodonordeste.verdesmares.com ... -1.1886793
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:33 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Copa officially launches PTY-FOR.

http://www.focus.jor.br/economia/voo-li ... -destinos/

And it looks like PTY-SSA as well, according to the last sentence in the first paragraph of the following news:

http://diariodonordeste.verdesmares.com ... -1.1886793


How are they able to open all these new routes and add capacity etc. without taking delivery of any new aircraft?
Their previous utilisation rates must have been really bad.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:36 pm

And one more route: PTY-BGI

From Twitter:
Eduardo Lim Yueng @limyueng
@CopaAirlines anuncia 3 nuevos destinos este 2018, Fortaleza y Salvador en Brasil, y Bridgetown en Barbados


https://twitter.com/limyueng/status/958029289668177923
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:39 pm

aldrigsomandre wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
Copa officially launches PTY-FOR.

http://www.focus.jor.br/economia/voo-li ... -destinos/

And it looks like PTY-SSA as well, according to the last sentence in the first paragraph of the following news:

http://diariodonordeste.verdesmares.com ... -1.1886793


How are they able to open all these new routes and add capacity etc. without taking delivery of any new aircraft?
Their previous utilisation rates must have been really bad.


This year they will receive 2 B737-800 (1 already arrived last week or the week before, but they are doing some extra work, i.e. putting the scimitar winglets, plus any extra work) and 5 B39M will arrive after October.
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:40 pm

How many countries does CM have left in the Americas to fly to?
Suriname and some of the smaller Caribbean islands are all I can think of. CM will need some more E190s if it intends to start doing SKB, DOM etc.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:58 pm

yellowtail wrote:
How many countries does CM have left in the Americas to fly to?
Suriname and some of the smaller Caribbean islands are all I can think of. CM will need some more E190s if it intends to start doing SKB, DOM etc.


As far as I know, the E190 will soon be retired.
 
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turk223
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 pm

CM announces Bridgetown (BGI) from July! I could not be happier... have been waiting for this since 2006, when our government announced that CM would start flights to BGI "soon"...

Also, CM will start service to Fortaleza (FOR) and Salvador (SSA) that same month.
 
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turk223
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:28 am

yellowtail wrote:
How many countries does CM have left in the Americas to fly to?
Suriname and some of the smaller Caribbean islands are all I can think of. CM will need some more E190s if it intends to start doing SKB, DOM etc.


Well, now that BGI has finally been announced, I would think other "good choices" in the Caribbean and CARICOM region would be: PBM, UVF, FDF, PTP...
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:27 am

PBM is the next logical choice and is definitely an underserved market that could use some connectivity.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:30 am

yellowtail wrote:
How many countries does CM have left in the Americas to fly to?

Suriname
Dominica
Grenada
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
Antigua & Barbuda

I think for sure that CM is the airline that flies to more countries within the continent; besides AA.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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copa330200
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:52 am

from Panama local newspaper:

https://impresa.prensa.com/economia/Tra ... 54839.html

interesting points:
1- passangers increased of 7.1% in 2017 (up to 13.5 millions)
2- for 2018 is planning for a 7.4% increase (up to 14.5 millions)
3- additional frequencies to key cities as POA (2 daily), SFO (3 daily) etc.
On the run !!!
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:44 pm

Looks like 2 more destinations will be opened by CM by the end of the year. In the following news, it talks that they will open 5 destinations in 2018, but only have revealed 3 of them.

Para llegar a este objetivo durante este año, Copa continúa su crecimiento con la apertura de cinco nuevos destinos , de los cuales solo se revelaron tres.

https://elcapitalfinanciero.com/copa-ai ... a-aviones/
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:15 pm

my bets would be PBM and CWB in Latin America or AUS and PHL in North America....outside chances on UVF, RDU and SLA.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:36 pm

I would say my bets are: SEA or SAN in the US (as CM had permits for the later (from the Panamanian side, according to some paperwork they submitted to the DoT on 2016: https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=DOT-OST-2016-0104), and the first should be reachable with the B39M that arrive later this year).

Other alternatives: PVR or SJD in Mexico. In Brazil for sure 2 more destinations are coming in 2018 or 2019, but I suspect that they will open them next year. In previous news, CM said that they were going to open 4 locations in Brazil. 2 in the north and 2 in the south. The 2 in the north were announced yesterday so we will see which 2 destinations in the South of Brazil will CM open this or next year. It would be interesting if they reopen CWB. Other candidates could be IGU or FLN, as authorities from those 2 regions have announced that they are courting CM.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:05 am

The largest runway at CWB is only 7267 feet long.
However, it looks like any Boeing 737 fully packed is capable to fly the CWB-PTY segment comfortably and avoiding weight penalties.
This model wasn't possible on American Airlines in 2013, since the flight was routed as AA MIA-CWB-POA-MIA with 763, if I recall correctly.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:53 am

https://www.crhoy.com/economia/aeroline ... o-semanal/

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. Edelweiss has announced that they will add a third weekly ZRH-SJO flight in September.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:29 am

https://www.nacion.com/el-pais/servicio ... e=Facebook

This is ridiculous. Now the boss of Nature Air is asking help from the President with regards to the very shutdown that was ordered by DGAC. Basically, they're trying to get to the President by mentioning the L word in combination with losses of over 1.2 million Dollars. They say that if they don't get back in the air, they'd have to lay off their staff, plus their shutdown could also affect up to 24,000 tourists as well.

Honestly, if they don't comply with the minimum requirements by DGAC, then they should keep their AOC suspended until they do. That being said, it proves what I predicted, that Nature Air's temporary shutdown is the beginning of the end for them. It would be sad if they'd be forced to shut down, but resorting to mentioning layoffs as a way to pressure the President into potentially intervening in an illegal way is IMO just a cheap move.

BTW, the timing of them to request help from the President right now is very convenient, given that we have elections this Sunday, and possibly a presidential run-off on Easter Sunday.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:33 am

LTU932 wrote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned. Edelweiss has announced that they will add a third weekly ZRH-SJO flight in September.

See input number 34.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:47 am

Flashback.

The supersonic Concorde landed one lonely time at SJO in January 1999.
It was forming part of a leisure travel coming from Lima, Peru.
These planes were decommissioned in August 2000, since the accident at CDG.

Image

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
mabadia71
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:45 pm

With recent reports that the A321LR could be able to fly up to 5000nm with a low density cabin ( AvWeek http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... ty-a321neo ) which puts Central America in range of most of westen europe do you think we'll see AV or other airlines starting TATL flights to smaller Central America destinations (ie GUA-MAD non-stop) or complementing existing services with a second frequency where demand is not enough to fill a WB aircraft (ie SJO-MAD or PTY-MAD)?

For the A321LR, Airbus added a strengthened landing gear among other features. Maximum takeoff weight was increased to 97 from 93.5 tons. The aircraft now has a design range of 4,000 nm, but Brousse said it can fly almost 5,000 nm in lower-density cabin layouts.
mabadia71
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:36 pm

Browsing this thread, two more stations should be officially announced soon in southern Brazil.
I wouldn’t speculate about potential new stations on CM but posting those cities placed southbound from Brasília and covered into the GOL Airlines code-share agreement: Campo Grande, Campo Mourao, Curitiba, Cuiaba, Florianopolis, Goiania, Iguassu Falls, Uberlandia and Vitoria.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:33 pm

https://www.teletica.com/184955_aviacio ... f8b34f9ab3

Weird. Yesterday, there was talk about the boss of 5C requesting to talk to the President about the airline's suspension. Today, DGAC lifted that suspension. Coincidence? Somehow, I think not I mean, they may have done the necessary actions to have their suspension lifted, but it still leaves me with a bitter taste and the suspicion of Casa Presidencial having some influence on it.

DGAC did state one condition: 5C can no longer operate flights with only three crew members on board.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
mabadia71
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:18 pm

LTU932 wrote:
https://www.teletica.com/184955_aviacion-civil-levanto-suspension-a-nature-air-tras-tragedia-aerea-que-cobro-vida-de-12-personas?hootPostID=77ec7bde66deb648a769bdf8b34f9ab3

Weird. Yesterday, there was talk about the boss of 5C requesting to talk to the President about the airline's suspension. Today, DGAC lifted that suspension. Coincidence? Somehow, I think not I mean, they may have done the necessary actions to have their suspension lifted, but it still leaves me with a bitter taste and the suspicion of Casa Presidencial having some influence on it.

DGAC did state one condition: 5C can no longer operate flights with only three crew members on board.


Specially when you consider that the day before yesterday DGAC said they wouldn't lift the suspension until they had 5 aircraft and 30 crews, which I doubt they got in 2 days.

https://www.nacion.com/el-pais/servicio ... D4E/story/
mabadia71
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:16 pm

mabadia71 wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
https://www.teletica.com/184955_aviacion-civil-levanto-suspension-a-nature-air-tras-tragedia-aerea-que-cobro-vida-de-12-personas?hootPostID=77ec7bde66deb648a769bdf8b34f9ab3

Weird. Yesterday, there was talk about the boss of 5C requesting to talk to the President about the airline's suspension. Today, DGAC lifted that suspension. Coincidence? Somehow, I think not I mean, they may have done the necessary actions to have their suspension lifted, but it still leaves me with a bitter taste and the suspicion of Casa Presidencial having some influence on it.

DGAC did state one condition: 5C can no longer operate flights with only three crew members on board.


Specially when you consider that the day before yesterday DGAC said they wouldn't lift the suspension until they had 5 aircraft and 30 crews, which I doubt they got in 2 days.

https://www.nacion.com/el-pais/servicio ... D4E/story/
Not to mention how easy it can be to pressure the President by mentioning "layoffs", because he may want to end his presidency on a high note, despite the fact that unemployment figures have been stagnating. I wouldn't be surprised if word came out that the President had "persuaded" DGAC into leniency or something. I still maintain 5C is as good as done.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:04 pm

CM and TK expand codeshares. The Argentinian government gave approval for MDZ and ROS. News in Spanish: http://www.impulsonegocios.com/contenid ... _46875.php
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:29 pm

AV is promoting the new service to Mendoza from SJO.
However, the flight will stop at LIM as shown:

AV 625...SJO 15.45.....20:25 LIM..........Daily
AV 927....LIM 22.15......04:00+1 MDZ....Daily
AV 926....MDZ 06.05...07:55 LIM..........Daily
AV 624....LIM 10.40.....13:40 SJO..........Daily
Effective: April 01st

Flights operated by 320, all the way.
I don’t think AV LIM-MDZ will be operated by Costa Rican crews.
The sector AV SJO-LIM and then AV LIM-SCL has been operated for years by LACSA on behalf of AV and TACA PERU before.
LP LIM-MDZ is already running that route.
The former TACA PERU tried unsuccessfully to open LIM-MDZ, in the past years.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
aldrigsomandre
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:51 pm

Kilgen wrote:
CM and TK expand codeshares. The Argentinian government gave approval for MDZ and ROS. News in Spanish: http://www.impulsonegocios.com/contenid ... _46875.php


Seems that TK is doing everything to fill up their PTY flights.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:13 am

Kilgen wrote:
CM and TK expand codeshares.

The triangular route TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST seems to work better than the extinct TP LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS.
TP once in Panama City didn't supply a proper code-share cooperation with CM, in order to run these flights profitably.
Like TP LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS 3x weekly, TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST 3x weekly is not getting a large O&D demand in Panama City. Thus, the code-share agreements are essential.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:42 am

December stats for Volaris Tijuana - Central America Routes.
GUA-TIJ-GUA: 2,640 pax in 26 flights, 102 pax per flight = Load Factor 70.5%.
SAL-TIJ-SAL: 1,938 pax in 26 flights, 75 pax per flight = Load Factor 51.8%.
Fotografos de Aviacion de Guatemala. Spotter.
https://www.facebook.com/Fot%C3%B3grafo ... 661476921/
 
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juanchito
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:43 am

Avianca airplanes that will be painted in La Aurora

N416AV...A320...01-FEB...10-FEB
N481AV...A320...11-FEB...20-FEB
N821AV...A320...21-FEB...02-MAR
HC-CLF...A320...11-MAR...20-MAR
N935TA...E190...01-MAY...10-MAY
N936TA...E190...11-MAY...20-MAY
N986TA...E190...22-MAY...31-MAY
N987TA...E190...02-JUN...11-JUN
N988TA...E190...13-JUN...22-JUN
N989TA...E190...24-JUN...03-JUL
N937TA...E190...05-JUL...14-JUL
N938TA...E190...16-JUL...25-JUL
N687TA...A320...27-JUL...05-AGO
Fotografos de Aviacion de Guatemala. Spotter.
https://www.facebook.com/Fot%C3%B3grafo ... 661476921/
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:33 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
CM and TK expand codeshares.

The triangular route TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST seems to work better than the extinct TP LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS.
TP once in Panama City didn't supply a proper code-share cooperation with CM, in order to run these flights profitably.
Like TP LIS-BOG-PTY-LIS 3x weekly, TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST 3x weekly is not getting a large O&D demand in Panama City. Thus, the code-share agreements are essential.

Regards.
I remember the discussions right after TK started to fly to PTY. People were saying that the route wasn't doing well at all. Nice to see they've made a turnaround.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:31 pm

yellowtail wrote:
my bets would be PBM and CWB in Latin America or AUS and PHL in North America....outside chances on UVF, RDU and SLA.

IMHO:
PBM and CWB is a question of when, so are GCM and AQP.
Not sure about AUS and PHL, I'd have expected HOU instead of AUS.
Off the radar but with chances: PHX, RDU, BNA, CVG, CBB, CGB, SLA/TUC, PZO, CUE.
On my wish list: twice weekly DAV-MIA, return to VCP and CUC, TLC, DFW and PBI.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:00 pm

Any CM AQP-PTY may experience weight penalties due to the altitude of the city.
Cuzco has been off the radar on CM as well.

Arequipa airport
Runway= 9712’
Altitude= 8399’
AQP-PTY= 1588nm

Cuzco airport
Runway= 11 155’
Altitude= 10 856’
CUZ-PTY= 1422 nm

Regards
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:16 pm

juanchito wrote:
Avianca airplanes that will be painted in La Aurora

N935TA...E190...01-MAY...10-MAY
N936TA...E190...11-MAY...20-MAY
N986TA...E190...22-MAY...31-MAY
N987TA...E190...02-JUN...11-JUN
N988TA...E190...13-JUN...22-JUN
N989TA...E190...24-JUN...03-JUL
N937TA...E190...05-JUL...14-JUL
N938TA...E190...16-JUL...25-JUL


So AV is painting their 10 years old E90s which are even featuring the old TACA colour-scheme.
This fact suggests us that AV will continue to use these planes for a long time.

Regards
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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yellowtail
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:51 am

It would appear that air China has been granted 5th freedom on IAH PTY.

Can anyone confirm?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Kilgen
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:57 am

yellowtail wrote:
It would appear that air China has been granted 5th freedom on IAH PTY.

Can anyone confirm?


Today they just posted the paperwork at the DoT. https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=DOT-OST-2018-0019
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:26 pm

Update:

Nature Air will fly again on February 09th, but their frequencies will decrease.
Their current destinations were not eliminated, but the regularity was reduced by 40%
One sole plane is in service, pending two more aircrafts in the near future.
5C is planning to unify routes such as San Jose - Golfito - Puerto Jimenez - Drake- San Jose.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:11 pm

Copa Airlines bears its code into the LH FRA-PTY 5x weekly.

Flights operated by Lufthansa:
FRA-PTY: LH 484
PTY-FRA: LH 485

Flights code-sharing by Copa Airlines:
FRA-PTY: CM 8103
PTY-FRA: CM 8102

Effective: March 02.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:52 pm

AF-KL grouping will supply later one daily flight to Europe from Costa Rica:

AF CDG-SJO. 4x weekly from 3x
KL AMS-SJO. 3x weekly from 2x
Effective: October 2018 - March 2019

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:23 pm

Could this expansion by AF-KL mean that they may intend to go yearround with both AF and KL eventually (and not just with AF like starting next month)?
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:29 am

LTU932 wrote:
Could this expansion by AF-KL mean that they may intend to go yearround with both AF and KL?

In my view, this is the first step and it would rely in the demand of passengers.
AF-KL could have put an eye on IB MAD-SJO, which is actually operating on a daily basis for a long time ago.
SkyTeam would catch a chunck of that potential market and the chance of AF-KL daily in San Jose and year-round would face to Iberia seriously.
When KL AMS-PTY began again in 2008, their frequencies were not more than three weekly flights. However, KL AMS-PTY is 7x weekly nowadays as well as AF CDG-PTY 7x weekly and holding a strong code-share cooperation with CM, especially with KL. Thus, the demand of passengers have grown up towards higher levels.
This is not the situation for Costa Rica, where the market from Europe is esentially based on the O&D component. The demand of passengers from Europe is indeed soaring, based on the expansion of WK ZRH-SJO to thrice a week and the opening of DE MUC-SDQ-SJO.
The European airlines enrolled on Star Alliance must watch carefully how both OneWorld and SkyTeam are doing in Central America. LH FRA-PTY just began in 2016 and followed by TP and TK with very limited frequencies in Panama City, whereas LH FRA-SJO 2x weekly is due to start in March.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:17 am

One thing that annoyed me, is that when I considered booking MAD-SJO when I still lived in HAM, you fly to MAD and had to overnight there before being able to take the flight. It wouldn't even offer you a codeshare that would allow you to connect directly with the flight (even when AB was still around). With AMS and CDG, you have the advantage of multiple daily flights (depending on where you are), which allow you to directly connect.

So, even if AF-KL sees it as just an O&D destination, getting to SJO from CDG and AMS (including via PTY) is far easier with them IMO than it is with IB. I don't really know how it is with LH, because I was supposed to fly with them in December 2015, but then they decided to delay their PTY flights unti March 2016 and I had to be rebooked on UA via EWR.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
mabadia71
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:38 pm

LTU932 wrote:
One thing that annoyed me, is that when I considered booking MAD-SJO when I still lived in HAM, you fly to MAD and had to overnight there before being able to take the flight. It wouldn't even offer you a codeshare that would allow you to connect directly with the flight (even when AB was still around). With AMS and CDG, you have the advantage of multiple daily flights (depending on where you are), which allow you to directly connect.

So, even if AF-KL sees it as just an O&D destination, getting to SJO from CDG and AMS (including via PTY) is far easier with them IMO than it is with IB. I don't really know how it is with LH, because I was supposed to fly with them in December 2015, but then they decided to delay their PTY flights unti March 2016 and I had to be rebooked on UA via EWR.


Same thing on the eastbound to many european destinations, for instance Latam-MAD-TXL requires a ∼10 hours layover in MAD.
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yellowtail
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:49 pm

KL, LH, and AF is SJO is also about connections to the Far East, India and russia. Something IB was not strong at. the Chinese, Japanese, And Indian traffic (tourism and diaspora) should not be underestimated. Many are eager to avoid the visa needed for transit in the USA.
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LTU932
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:16 pm

yellowtail wrote:
KL, LH, and AF is SJO is also about connections to the Far East, India and russia. Something IB was not strong at. the Chinese, Japanese, And Indian traffic (tourism and diaspora) should not be underestimated. Many are eager to avoid the visa needed for transit in the USA.
You think the connection times are that convenient? I can figure that Indian and East Asian ex-pats want to try to avoid the visa issue with the US, but given that all three airlines are treating SJO as an O&D destination, I somehow doubt that connections to Asia are a priority for them. Otherwise, maybe EK would've started those long announced flights to PTY a long time ago. That being said, if connections were that big of an issue, I'd figure that they'd fly via PTY instead of SJO.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: Central American aviation thread - 2018

Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:08 am

LTU932 wrote:
One thing that annoyed me, is that when I considered booking MAD-SJO when I still lived in HAM, you fly to MAD and had to overnight there before being able to take the flight.

IB doesn’t supply a good connectivity on linking Germany and Costa Rica as compared to AF network.
AF and their subsidiaries can properly connect Düsseldorf, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Berlin, Munich, Hanover and so forth to San Jose through CDG.
The leaving time from Paris allows all these connections:

AF 430.....CDG 13:40......SJO 18:20

When AF CDG-SJO didn’t operate in the past, the passengers were transferred through BOG or CCS and then by TACA to San Jose.
I remember a lot of travelers making this journey during the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
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