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OzarkD9S
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B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:38 am

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/jetblue ... 08330.html

Ok, so I've never flown B6 living in STL, but can this be real?
Next up: STL-DAL-ABQ-DAL-STL. A little December day trip. Because that's what av-geeks do. :airplane:
 
hayzel777
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:45 am

Other than a poor OTP, what's so bad about B6? I've experienced worse on the US3.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:51 am

It was The Wall Street Journal...

"The Wall Street Journal looks at seven key operational metrics for their rankings, including on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints."

These are the same metrics that Ryanair has used for years to validate its claim to be the world's best airline for customer service. Not to be taken seriously.
 
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enilria
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:06 am

shamrock350 wrote:
It was The Wall Street Journal...

"The Wall Street Journal looks at seven key operational metrics for their rankings, including on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints."

These are the same metrics that Ryanair has used for years to validate its claim to be the world's best airline for customer service. Not to be taken seriously.

The FAA releases a reason for delays. I'd argue that the media should be filtering out "Act of God" delays. It's just lazy to include all delays. Obviously weather events and ATC are not relevant to who is a good or bad airline.
 
BAINY3
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:09 am

Yeah, it sounds like this one is based on operational metrics. Since B6 is so dependent on NYC and BOS, it's not surprising that the chronic congestion problems in those areas spills over into their rankings. They didn't evaluate things like on-board service or amenities.

It's the inverse of how Hawaiian is often at the top of lists based on operations. It never snows in Honolulu...
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:17 am

Yup, it is true.

Heads should be rolling over there. Especially in light of the fact that they rolled out an on time program a year ago! It is also amazing that an airline that doesnt overbook should have so many denied boardings...but they do!
 
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lightsaber
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:25 am

I love flying JetBlue. Luckily for me, no major delays on the plane (but there has been times waiting for the plane to arrive). Eh... I'll take the risk when I fly to BOS. From LGB? Not so much risk. ;)

Lightsaber
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travaz
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:42 am

One mans trash is another mans treasure. These are so subjective that i consider them irrelevant. Strictly click bait. I live in PHX so we have 2 B6 flights a day. I have no opinion.
 
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Goodyear
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:44 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Yup, it is true.

Heads should be rolling over there. Especially in light of the fact that they rolled out an on time program a year ago! It is also amazing that an airline that doesnt overbook should have so many denied boardings...but they do!


They are worth more in pieces.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:32 am

That just describes flying out of New York. The airports are congested, overcapacity and delay prone. In my opinion, it doesn’t really matter who you Fly. Unless using alternate airports like SWF of ISP, performance metrics in New York are terrible.

If you want on time performance, move to Hawaii.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:32 am

OzarkD9S wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/jetblue-just-named-worst-airline-162508330.html

Ok, so I've never flown B6 living in STL, but can this be real?


They had a terrible year operationally speaking. Having a lot of their operation in FLL and SJU means they would have had a lot of cancelled flights. That and the runway closures in JFK/BOS caused a lot of on-time issues. A lot of it is also their own operational issue.

But if you just fly them leisurely, you won't find a better product domestically.
 
DaveFly
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:27 am

My experiences with JetBlue have almost always been positive. Yeah, there’s room for improvement, but I’ve been treated far far FAR worse on Delta, United, American, and no-love-lost USAir.
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dc10lover
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:53 am

Yahoo is fake news. I would say JetBlue is the best airline. Alaska Airlines was once good but JetBlue is way better than American, Delta & United. Even Southwest is better than AA, DL & UA.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
eastalt
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:53 am

After reading this article, its obvious airlines will never live up to the mythical fantasy we expect. The metrics used by the DOT are biased and very one sided. I visited to the DOT and asked why the metrics were set up that way, and was basically told that's all the public wants to hear. However, they did acknowledge the airline industry in the US does a great job of transporting passengers when you look at what they have to work with. If you take into account the horrible ATC system, poor airports. These issues are inherited by the airlines and cost them millions in revenue. It would nice to see a report that ranked airlines based on recovery objectives and safety.
 
dc10lover
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:55 am

Just today, I noticed JetBlue has over 2 Million followers on Twitter. That is really good.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of.
 
catiii
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:03 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Yup, it is true.

Heads should be rolling over there. Especially in light of the fact that they rolled out an on time program a year ago! It is also amazing that an airline that doesnt overbook should have so many denied boardings...but they do!


And as you know since you’re so tuned in, on blue sky days operating a network by and large in the most congested airspace in the world, B6 ran an 86% A14.

Close runways at JFK, throw in major storms, and the operation is impacted. Who cares what Scott McCartney has to say anyway...good or bad.
 
catiii
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:04 am

dc10lover wrote:
Just today, I noticed JetBlue has over 2 Million followers on Twitter. That is really good.


No one cares one way or the other about their social media presence.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:30 am

Well we all know that the WSJ is fake news, so take anything they say with a grain of salt. Other than the fired employees on this forum, most people love JetBlue and that's why they are constantly at or near the top in customer satisfaction surveys/rewards.

Also, flying out of NYC is awful no matter what airline you're flying on or which airport. The Port Authority should be shutdown.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
stratosphere
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:21 am

Being based at JFK is their whole issue here. I think they offer a better product than a lot of airlines do .
 
lostsound
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:51 am

In my experience Southwest and JetBlue are the best carriers I've flown in the USA. I do prefer B6 for the space and perks, it's always been a perfect experience for me.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:01 am

More a product of B6's being a major East Coast regional and high aircraft utilization than anything else, especially in the crowded airspace that is JFK. But a lot of the problem has been from conditions for which no one can be held responsible, although B6 has been proactive ever since that meltdown that forced David Neeleman out.
 
MR27122
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:34 am

B6 is hyper-proactive towards resolving customer issues in favor of the customer, often before they're asked for anything by the customer. The Valentine's Day massacre conditioned them "big time", and shed light open fantastical operational failings...namely, they possessed no "action plan". A March ice storm crippled the airline & tarnished it's image just as "phones on planes" were starting to be in vogue. Neeleman certainly deserves a heap of criticism for somehow believing B6 was immune from Mother Nature. Geography is a very large piece of the pie in regards to how these stats skew. The one absolute failing of B6 is timeliness as the day progresses. As for not "over booking"----I don't "buy it". I flew them on Saturday from BOS-AUS...the flight had been cxld Thur/Fri due to the northeast snowstorm. Prior to boarding they were asking for 4 "volunteers" yet kept on repeating the flight was not oversold (in that specific instance, 2 days of back-to-back cancellations for the nonstop BOS-AUS, it probably would've been better to be transparent---too many pax were booked for too few seats). Yet they proceeded with boarding after not getting sufficient volunteers. We then sat for 4.5 hours due to a "weight & balance" issue (we were overweight) that evolved into a suitable runway issue due to winds, that became a fuel issue due to weight & the decision to offload fuel & stop at RDU, that became a decision to re-fuel after 2 people volunteered to get off, that became a too few passengers---6 had deplaned because we were sitting for so long and had to be called back, while they offered everybody the option to de-plane (very odd), that finally turned into a refueling issue because they were having issues connecting the fuel pump, that became a suitable runway issue again. The point being---B6 has always seemed to be transparant since the Valentine's Day massacre...not so much anymore (if your giving away $700 travel vouchers pre-boarding & going via JFK to 4 volunteers, yet nobody bites, it's fairly obvious that the flight is overbooked....going "weight and balance" when you need 4 people off the plane was simply dopey because 4 people is a razor thin weight & balance "need").
 
nine4nine
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:24 am

30+ flights on B6 under my belt and not one bad experience. My last one especially. I planned on being at JFK 2 hours prior to departure so that I could have dinner at the airport. It took over 3 hours to get from MidTown to JFK. I was still on the parkway when the flight started boarding. Needless to say I got to the check in with 10 minutes to go and 2 checked bags. Not only did customer service expedite my check in but walked my wife and I thru security and got us to the gate with a minute to spare for doors closed. My bags even made the flight.
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ryanov
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:27 am

I’ve had better experiences with Delta than JetBlue, and you’re not hosed when things go wrong because they have far more flights to use for recovery than JetBlue does.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:08 am

dc10lover wrote:
Yahoo is fake news. I would say JetBlue is the best airline. Alaska Airlines was once good but JetBlue is way better than American, Delta & United. Even Southwest is better than AA, DL & UA.


It's not fake news, it's uninformed news. People seriously need to stop crying fake news when there is a story they disagree with. IMO, B6 has gone down, but it's still light years ahead of F9, NK, or B6.
 
axiom
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:11 am

AAvgeek744 wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
Yahoo is fake news. I would say JetBlue is the best airline. Alaska Airlines was once good but JetBlue is way better than American, Delta & United. Even Southwest is better than AA, DL & UA.


It's not fake news, it's uninformed news. People seriously need to stop crying fake news when there is a story they disagree with. IMO, B6 has gone down, but it's still light years ahead of F9, NK, or B6.


Yes. Thank you for being the first to say this.

B6 has had a rough year, but I would fly them any day over the likes of F9, NK, or G4. They're not in the same league, imo.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:57 pm

how is the Wall Street Journal fake news? It’s the most read newspaper in the country.

Enough with the fake news garbage already. There are going to be a lot of opinion pieces out there that you don’t like and a lot of reporting with slanted viewpoints that you don’t like… Doesn’t mean it’s fake news. It means you don’t like the news being reported

They looked at the operational metrics of the airlines in question and JetBlue has the worst operational metrics. Those are facts not opinions and not fake but very real, hard, cold facts.

There are many reasons for those facts. Some can be contributed to the congested airspace, runway closures, bad weather... Unfortunately many of them can be attributed to how JetBlue runs their operation.

I can not look at my employer when I arrive at JFK today And say “I’m sorry for being chronically late; the Van Wyck Expressway is always so congested.”

It is a known entity in my day… And I have to account for it and take responsibility. Sounds like JB should start doing that when it comes to JFK: Pad your schedules, increased turn times, have more spares, put the planes to bed so the kick off flights go off on time, speed up your boarding process instead of monetizing your boarding process while simultaneously slowing it down.

These are easy fixes with guaranteed results...but you lose efficiency of resources...and that costs money. Only JB can make the decisions necessary to fix these problems.
 
fastmover
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:09 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
how is the Wall Street Journal fake news? It’s the most read newspaper in the country.

Enough with the fake news garbage already. There are going to be a lot of opinion pieces out there that you don’t like and a lot of reporting with slanted viewpoints that you don’t like… Doesn’t mean it’s fake news. It means you don’t like the news being reported

They looked at the operational metrics of the airlines in question and JetBlue has the worst operational metrics. Those are facts not opinions and not fake but very real, hard, cold facts.

There are many reasons for those facts. Some can be contributed to the congested airspace, runway closures, bad weather... Unfortunately many of them can be attributed to how JetBlue runs their operation.

I can not look at my employer when I arrive at JFK today And say “I’m sorry for being chronically late; the Van Wyck Expressway is always so congested.”

It is a known entity in my day… And I have to account for it and take responsibility. Sounds like JB should start doing that when it comes to JFK: Pad your schedules, increased turn times, have more spares, put the planes to bed so the kick off flights go off on time, speed up your boarding process instead of monetizing your boarding process while simultaneously slowing it down.

These are easy fixes with guaranteed results...but you lose efficiency of resources...and that costs money. Only JB can make the decisions necessary to fix these problems.




I guess you just got the email talking about doing just that.
It has been a rough year and much of it is JetBlue’s fault. They want short turn times, not padding block times and few operational spares because it’s like getting a plane for free. The problem is it simply does not work on the east coast. They know the problem they have identified it yet they keep doing the same thing over and over. I assume it comes down to the accountants. If we have some of the highest margins how do you make the argument to spend money to fix these things when it does not seem to be hurting us. But most definitely has an impact when people book us but you need to show the numbers for that.

Jetblue is in the middle of a pilot labor dispute, the FAs are about to vote for a union, we have had one of our worst operational years ever and it seems like management is not sure what to do.

The CEO needs to take command of this airline or the board should find someone who can.
 
b6bos143
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:35 pm

When you truly compare apples to apples, you see that B6 is actually pretty much on par with the others at JFK and BOS, at least for the month of October which is the most recent month available. Is there room to improve? Absolutely. For JetBlue and every other airline in the country. It's just unfortunate and unfair that an airline's overall quality would be portrayed the "worst" in the USA based on these things alone.

Image
 
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diverdave
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:42 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
"The Wall Street Journal looks at seven key operational metrics for their rankings, including on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints."


So what is wrong with those metrics, and what would you propose be used in their stead?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:03 pm

Those metrics are for one month. A good weather month. A low traffic month.

Post the stats at JFK and BOS for the year. Then we will have a real discussion.
 
richierich
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:06 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Yup, it is true.

Heads should be rolling over there. Especially in light of the fact that they rolled out an on time program a year ago! It is also amazing that an airline that doesnt overbook should have so many denied boardings...but they do!


JetBlue ranked at the bottom of the list of metrics for the simple reason that they have most of their operations centered around the Northeast airports, which are of course the most challenging in terms of chronic delays. JetBlue doesn't have a hub at SLC or SEA, or a regional carrier network to bail out their numbers, but you already know this. If you looked at the operations of major carriers at JFK, BOS, LGA, EWR etc. throughout the year, their delays and metrics were similar.
How did DL do in this most recent JFK mess last week? Heads rolling there? Oh yea, that's right...they handled that like pros. ha

With that said, the B6 denied boardings number is a bit of a mystery to me. I probably flew on JetBlue 20 times last year, and while not every flight was on-time (most were), I never once saw any evidence of a denied boarding. Maybe some large carry-on bags that had to be checked, but no people. Sure, that's a small sample of flights but it is a bit of a head-scratcher. As they don't oversell by policy, I can only guess this is somehow related to the cycle of late flights and overbooking during unusually bad irregular operations.
None shall pass!!!!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:12 pm

b6bos143 wrote:
When you truly compare apples to apples, you see that B6 is actually pretty much on par with the others at JFK and BOS, at least for the month of October which is the most recent month available. Is there room to improve? Absolutely. For JetBlue and every other airline in the country. It's just unfortunate and unfair that an airline's overall quality would be portrayed the "worst" in the USA based on these things alone.

Image


That's a good reference. If you showed 12 months of data with the average you could make a fairly powerful argument. Of course, 'We're no worse than anybody else,' isn't a great aspiration.
 
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Polot
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:37 pm

According to stats from the BTS, from Nov 2016 to Nov 2017 (latest month available) 25.46% of B6's flights from JFK were delayed/3.14% cancelled, versus an average of 22.99/2.19% respectively for JFK. For comparison AA was 19.99/1.93, and DL was 21.81/1.15, but those do not include regional ops.

What is interesting though is why they were delayed. For B6 27.47% of the delays were because of late arriving aircraft, versus an airport average of 23.11%. For AA that percentage was 19.34 and DL 18.82 (again, not including regional ops).
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:51 pm

shamrock350 wrote:
It was The Wall Street Journal...

"The Wall Street Journal looks at seven key operational metrics for their rankings, including on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints."

These are the same metrics that Ryanair has used for years to validate its claim to be the world's best airline for customer service. Not to be taken seriously.


??? What other metrics would you suggest?

As someone who flyies 150+ revenue flights per year, I can tell you those metrics are absolutely what frequent flyers care about. Time is money. It definitely trumps terra chips, free Wifi, and TVs at every seat.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
b6bos143
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:53 pm

That's a good reference. If you showed 12 months of data with the average you could make a fairly powerful argument. Of course, 'We're no worse than anybody else,' isn't a great aspiration.


Just to be clear: The point of the post was not to say B6 was "no worse than anybody else." It was to help illustrate that, when you isolate the two airports mentioned frequently in this thread, JetBlue was largely on par with other carriers (not significantly better or worse than the others,) at least for the most recent month for which data is available. I think it makes a fair point that with a disproportionately large percentage of its operation in those two cities, JetBlue still does fairly well at maintaining an on-time operation most of the time, despite its lack of another hub the size of JFK or BOS in a different geographical area to help balance the negative effects of a saturated operating region.
Last edited by b6bos143 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:57 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Well we all know that the WSJ is fake news


Sincerely,
Donald Trump.

Back in reality land, the WSJ is probably the single most read publication of frequent flyers...and one of the most read/respected news sources in the US.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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United787
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:59 pm

I have flown them twice, ORD-JFK and JFK-ORD.

The first flight was cancelled because of "weather", in fact B6 cancelled most of their flights that day...the other airlines did not and operated fairly normally that day. I had to fly the next day.

The second flight was delayed for 3-4 hours at JFK, their hub, because of "late arriving crew". They can't find a crew at their own hub?

So yes, in my experience, worst airline ever. Even Olympic circa 1991 wasn't this bad.
 
BREECH
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm

MR27122 wrote:
B6 is hyper-proactive towards resolving customer issues in favor of the customer, often before they're asked for anything by the customer. The Valentine's Day massacre conditioned them "big time", and shed light open fantastical operational failings...namely, they possessed no "action plan". A March ice storm crippled the airline & tarnished it's image just as "phones on planes" were starting to be in vogue. Neeleman certainly deserves a heap of criticism for somehow believing B6 was immune from Mother Nature. Geography is a very large piece of the pie in regards to how these stats skew. The one absolute failing of B6 is timeliness as the day progresses. As for not "over booking"----I don't "buy it". I flew them on Saturday from BOS-AUS...the flight had been cxld Thur/Fri due to the northeast snowstorm. Prior to boarding they were asking for 4 "volunteers" yet kept on repeating the flight was not oversold (in that specific instance, 2 days of back-to-back cancellations for the nonstop BOS-AUS, it probably would've been better to be transparent---too many pax were booked for too few seats). Yet they proceeded with boarding after not getting sufficient volunteers. We then sat for 4.5 hours due to a "weight & balance" issue (we were overweight) that evolved into a suitable runway issue due to winds, that became a fuel issue due to weight & the decision to offload fuel & stop at RDU, that became a decision to re-fuel after 2 people volunteered to get off, that became a too few passengers---6 had deplaned because we were sitting for so long and had to be called back, while they offered everybody the option to de-plane (very odd), that finally turned into a refueling issue because they were having issues connecting the fuel pump, that became a suitable runway issue again. The point being---B6 has always seemed to be transparant since the Valentine's Day massacre...not so much anymore (if your giving away $700 travel vouchers pre-boarding & going via JFK to 4 volunteers, yet nobody bites, it's fairly obvious that the flight is overbooked....going "weight and balance" when you need 4 people off the plane was simply dopey because 4 people is a razor thin weight & balance "need").

Okay, so you had a bad flight. Doesn't mean the airline is bad. I'm sure you've been in a situation where you are late everywhere all day and the problems just keeping piling up and every call on your phone just adds to the already disastrous day. Mind you, people around you are kind enough to not call it "Bobby's f*ck-up Tuesday" (or what's your real name). Oh, and Valentine's Day massacre was a tragic event in Chicago in 1929 when Al Capone's gang killed seven people. Don't you think calling a plane delay the same name is a bit... how do I say it nicely?.. STUPID?
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
BREECH
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:05 pm

United787 wrote:
The second flight was delayed for 3-4 hours at JFK, their hub, because of "late arriving crew". They can't find a crew at their own hub?

Good gawd, I thought people like that only existed in ABC sitcoms. 3-4 hours delay in the busiest airport in the world. And you do realize that pilots who fly you from JFK may have started their day at their home in Los Angeles? VERY few pilots in America live where they fly.
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:09 pm

b6bos143 wrote:

Just to be clear: The point of the post was not to say B6 was "no worse than anybody else." It was to help illustrate that, when you isolate the two airports mentioned frequently in this thread, JetBlue was largely on par with other carriers (not significantly better or worse than the others,) at least for the most recent month for which data is available. I think it makes a fair point that with a disproportionately large percentage of its operation in those two cities, JetBlue still does fairly well at maintaining an on-time operation most of the time, despite its lack of another hub the size of JFK or BOS in a different geographical area to help balance the negative effects of a saturated operating region.


I'm a fan of B6. They're probably one of my top three airlines in the US. However, the reason I don't fly them (unless terminating in BOS/JFK) is because I intentionally avoid congested/delay prone airports like JFK. I suspect there are many others that do the same. B6 (and other carriers who choose to hub at congested/delay prone airports) deserve some of the blame. They're directly contributing to the congestion. They could have another (connecting) hub operation at a less congested airport*.

*I'm not advocating or even suggesting that B6 move their hub (after all it's the No 1 O&D market in the US), but they did choose the bed that they lie in. They should not be absolved from all blame for congestion issues that they contribute to. On the flip side, just ~10 years ago, WN pulled down the PHL hub citing chronic delays that were cascading into their whole network. Of course that's a bit easier for WN who has a dozen or so hubs, but it's a business decision available for any airline.

Just my 2 XRP.
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Polot
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:12 pm

BREECH wrote:
United787 wrote:
The second flight was delayed for 3-4 hours at JFK, their hub, because of "late arriving crew". They can't find a crew at their own hub?

Good gawd, I thought people like that only existed in ABC sitcoms. 3-4 hours delay in the busiest airport in the world. And you do realize that pilots who fly you from JFK may have started their day at their home in Los Angeles? VERY few pilots in America live where they fly.

3-4 hours is actually pretty significant, even in the "busiest airport in the world."

Also late arriving crew was probably because the inbound flight they were working on was late to arrive (aka, also delayed), not because "they started their day at home in LA". If you decide to commute you have a responsibly to be on work on time, living in the other side of the country is not a valid excuse.
 
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flymco753
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:13 pm

What metrics are they using to come to this conclusion? Is this solely based on opinion or is there actual facts to back up B6 being the worst? My experiences on B6 this year were great.
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AAIRLINERS
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:20 pm

More of a statement of WSJ and maybe the "Wall Street" gang as a whole. My family and I have flown them several times from NY to FL and it has always been a good experience. I fly for one of the big three and I feel they put our domestic product to shame. More room, pricing equal to or less than ours and I did pay full fare to do so. Wall Street is out of touch with their metrics when it comes to the traveling public. I am not an investor. I am a consumer. Big difference.
 
tphuang
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:22 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
shamrock350 wrote:
It was The Wall Street Journal...

"The Wall Street Journal looks at seven key operational metrics for their rankings, including on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints."

These are the same metrics that Ryanair has used for years to validate its claim to be the world's best airline for customer service. Not to be taken seriously.


??? What other metrics would you suggest?

As someone who flyies 150+ revenue flights per year, I can tell you those metrics are absolutely what frequent flyers care about. Time is money. It definitely trumps terra chips, free Wifi, and TVs at every seat.

That may be so, but they also care about not having a bad back from cramped slim line seat.

It does seem like jetblue is getting a lot more ff at least in northeast, so getting this operational issues improved is desperately needed. I am sure the bean counters don't want to loose any major corporate contracts because they are constantly late.

Btw, I have never noticed b6 to be worse than dl or aa out of my own flying experience centered around JFK and lga.
 
richierich
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:23 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
b6bos143 wrote:

Just to be clear: The point of the post was not to say B6 was "no worse than anybody else." It was to help illustrate that, when you isolate the two airports mentioned frequently in this thread, JetBlue was largely on par with other carriers (not significantly better or worse than the others,) at least for the most recent month for which data is available. I think it makes a fair point that with a disproportionately large percentage of its operation in those two cities, JetBlue still does fairly well at maintaining an on-time operation most of the time, despite its lack of another hub the size of JFK or BOS in a different geographical area to help balance the negative effects of a saturated operating region.


I'm a fan of B6. They're probably one of my top three airlines in the US. However, the reason I don't fly them (unless terminating in BOS/JFK) is because I intentionally avoid congested/delay prone airports like JFK. I suspect there are many others that do the same. B6 (and other carriers who choose to hub at congested/delay prone airports) deserve some of the blame. They're directly contributing to the congestion. They could have another (connecting) hub operation at a less congested airport*.

*I'm not advocating or even suggesting that B6 move their hub (after all it's the No 1 O&D market in the US), but they did choose the bed that they lie in. They should not be absolved from all blame for congestion issues that they contribute to. On the flip side, just ~10 years ago, WN pulled down the PHL hub citing chronic delays that were cascading into their whole network. Of course that's a bit easier for WN who has a dozen or so hubs, but it's a business decision available for any airline.

Just my 2 XRP.


These hubs with chronic delays also happen to be near the big population centers of the Northeast. If you are O&D, you have little choice to use these airports unless you pick secondary airports...I do actually agree with you around connecting flights though. I'd avoid connecting at JFK, EWR, PHL or BOS if I could help it.
But as 2017 proved, even connecting at a hub like ATL doesn't exactly mean you are safe from mayhem.

Anyway, back to the subject. Obviously JetBlue chose to operate in the airports that it does on the east coast because that's where the money is. However, the infrastructure lets all airlines down, including B6, and I am quite sure that being "about as good as" the other airlines in terms of cancellations/delays is not where they want to be.
So in terms of these metrics - which are slightly flawed - yes B6 is bottom of the barrel. However, when looking at all airlines that operate at JFK, BOS, etc., they are about the same (where would DL, UA and AA would rank if they didn't have their regionals to protect their numbers?) However, even with the delays, they are still a great airline and far better than most in this country. As somebody who has been stuck on a CRJ for two or more hours waiting to get in the air for a 45 min flight, more than once, I can at least say that if these delays are a fact of life, I'd rather be on a B6 plane. :/
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Super80Fan
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:26 pm

United787 wrote:
I have flown them twice, ORD-JFK and JFK-ORD.

The first flight was cancelled because of "weather", in fact B6 cancelled most of their flights that day...the other airlines did not and operated fairly normally that day. I had to fly the next day.

The second flight was delayed for 3-4 hours at JFK, their hub, because of "late arriving crew". They can't find a crew at their own hub?

So yes, in my experience, worst airline ever. Even Olympic circa 1991 wasn't this bad.


This post folks, is why you take airline complaints with a grain of salt.
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backseatdriver
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:27 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Well we all know that the WSJ is fake news, so take anything they say with a grain of salt.


The WSJ is the preeminent news source in the country, perhaps to the chagrin of only those who posses a strong distaste for truth in reporting.

The article informs the reader exactly what the metrics are for this study. Other studies that factor in cabin service, amenities, etc. are available if you want to see those. Just take it at face value.
 
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Polot
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:28 pm

AAIRLINERS wrote:
More of a statement of WSJ and maybe the "Wall Street" gang as a whole. My family and I have flown them several times from NY to FL and it has always been a good experience. I fly for one of the big three and I feel they put our domestic product to shame. More room, pricing equal to or less than ours and I did pay full fare to do so. Wall Street is out of touch with their metrics when it comes to the traveling public. I am not an investor. I am a consumer. Big difference.

I wouldn't say looking at "on-time arrivals, canceled flights, extreme delays, 2-hour tarmac delays, mishandled luggage, involuntary bumping and complaints" (WSJ's metrics) is being "out of touch" when it comes to the traveling public. The traveling public wants on time flights with their luggage at their final destination with no issues (re: complaints). The problem is it is hard to quantify on board product in a ranking.

I think the main issue is the title they used (general best/worst airline) versus their actual rankings which are perfectly valid metrics for looking at airlines.
 
b6bos143
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Re: B6 Worst Airline in the USA?

Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:31 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Those metrics are for one month. A good weather month. A low traffic month.

Post the stats at JFK and BOS for the year. Then we will have a real discussion.


At JFK, for the period 10/2016 - 11/2017:

B6 - 71.15 % on time; 3.06% cancel
AA - 74.51% on time; 1.78% cancel
DL - 78.29% on time; 1.07% cancel

At BOS, for the same period:

B6 - 73.13% on time; 2.06% cancel
AA - 77.11% on time; 2.39% cancel
DL - 79.03% on time; 1.00% cancel

I did not include all the airlines on the original list, because I thought it fair to include only those which have a fairly significant operation at these two airports. Looking at these numbers, as I said earlier, there is clearly room for improvement at B6. However, none of these airlines achieved even an 80% on time performance rate at either JFK or BOS. The one thing both DL and AA have are hubs of comparable size in other parts of the country to help minimize the lowered performance rates in the two airports above. B6 does not have that. The closest it has is FLL, but even then many of the flights are to/from New York and/or BOS. Also, in an earlier post, you mentioned a campaign launched last year to address on-time performance at B6. What you failed to mention was that it was a phased approach. Thus, some of the results of that campaign will not be apparent until all phases have been implemented. Will on-time performance improve over at B6? I'm not sure. Only time will tell.

Source: https://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Delay/ ... Cause1.asp

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